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crzymdups
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It feels like the franchise is at a definite crossroads. The Fisher firing means that a lot of the progress of this season is called somewhat into question.

Personally my top choice would be to hire the best coach available, regardless of Triangle - maybe retain Rambis as an assistant to imbue Triangularity to the offense, but hire the best damn coach. There's no such thing as a Triangle defense and Thibs is the best defensive coach in the league. We have a young defensive superstar in KP - imagine how dominant our team defense could be?

My ideal would be to keep Melo, sign Thibs, sign Conley. Add a few more pieces here and there, particularly at SG.

I honestly think if we're going to keep tinkering with the Triangle and a coach with a career 20% winning percentage we might as well trade Melo.

What say y'all?

Win now, ditch Triangle - keep Melo, hire Thibs, try like hell to add Conley this summer
Full rebuild - trade Melo for young players and picks, keep trying to find a young coach to make the triangle work
Current mode - keep Melo, keep triangle stuff, hope for free agency pieces to add to Triangle and current roster
Other
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VCoug
Posts: 24935
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Joined: 3/28/2007
Member: #1406
2/12/2016  8:28 PM
martin wrote:
VCoug wrote:
martin wrote:
VCoug wrote:
martin wrote:
VCoug wrote:I've made no secret that I want to blow it up and nothing that's happened this season has changed my mind. We're still going nowhere and we still have no obvious path to contention.

The hardest piece for any team to get is franchise player. Outside of Larry Brown's Detroit team, pretty much all finals team had at least 1 player who you would consider one of the best player's in the league. The Knicks just got that player, the potential is there.

The next step is adding to that. My very uninformed plan: Batum this offseason, Westbrook the next. Get lucky with some minor players like LT, Grant, Willy growing like mad at reasonable salaries. Maybe even one of Jordan Bachynski, Thanasis Antetokounmpo, Darion Atkins make the roster.

Rolo, KP, Melo, Batum, Westbrook. LT, Gallo, Grant, Willy.

Why is Batum coming here next year? We're not particularly good and Melo, who's turning 32 in May, looks like his knee is still bothering him. Everyone's going to have cap space so we won't be able to outspend everyone else. Our coaching situation is a mess. And if we don't sign him who are we signing that convinces Westbrook to come here. Next year's FA class isn't particularly good.

KP and $18M per should do it.

Except that Batum has a choice in the matter so why is he coming to a team that's going to win about 30 games this year? Why wouldn't he try to go to Miami or Dallas, teams that can offer him the same money and a chance to win now. Hell, even GS should be able to throw $15M at him, why not go there? I mean, how many times in the history of the NBA has a rookie ever been a big FA draw?

dude you are kind of grasping at straws. Batum isn't a lock to come to NY. AA just came, Rolo just came, others didn't.

If you want to throws names of teams out there as to why Batum WOULDN'T come, at least give it a real go. Think Batum would prefer Miami with Wade, Bosh, no Whiteside, Wislow? Or Dallas with aging Dirk, Matthews and ...? GS will not offer money to Batum when they have Barnes and Thompson.

So why not the Knicks? Big city, Phil, KP, a plan of Westbrook the next year. That's solid.

Did Afflalo or Lopez have any other offers? If they did I don't remember them. Why wouldn't Miami have Whiteside? His cap hold should be more than low enough that they can offer a large contract and still resign him. Is that Dallas situation any better than ours? Dallas has 6 more wins than us and is in the playoff picture.

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
AUTOADVERT
VCoug
Posts: 24935
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Joined: 3/28/2007
Member: #1406
2/12/2016  8:33 PM
Knixkik wrote:
VCoug wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
VCoug wrote:
martin wrote:
VCoug wrote:I've made no secret that I want to blow it up and nothing that's happened this season has changed my mind. We're still going nowhere and we still have no obvious path to contention.

The hardest piece for any team to get is franchise player. Outside of Larry Brown's Detroit team, pretty much all finals team had at least 1 player who you would consider one of the best player's in the league. The Knicks just got that player, the potential is there.

The next step is adding to that. My very uninformed plan: Batum this offseason, Westbrook the next. Get lucky with some minor players like LT, Grant, Willy growing like mad at reasonable salaries. Maybe even one of Jordan Bachynski, Thanasis Antetokounmpo, Darion Atkins make the roster.

Rolo, KP, Melo, Batum, Westbrook. LT, Gallo, Grant, Willy.

Why is Batum coming here next year? We're not particularly good and Melo, who's turning 32 in May, looks like his knee is still bothering him. Everyone's going to have cap space so we won't be able to outspend everyone else. Our coaching situation is a mess. And if we don't sign him who are we signing that convinces Westbrook to come here. Next year's FA class isn't particularly good.

Ny is a great opportunity for him to get noticed a little bit. He's a good player that should be coming into his prime and if he wants anyone other than the knowledgeable nba fan to know who he is, this is a great opportunity.

You could have said the same thing last year about Greg Monroe and he decided to play in Milwaukee. If he plays a lot of minutes on a good team he'll have plenty of exposure next year.

And how's that working out for him? He would be a bigger name in the league if he were playing for the Knicks. Some guys want that and some don't. Not sure if batum wants to stand out a little more or if he's content blending into a team anonymously. We will see.

I can't name a single player in the last decade that has gained fame by playing in NYC, not one.

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
gunsnewing
Posts: 55076
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Joined: 2/24/2002
Member: #215
USA
2/12/2016  8:42 PM
VCoug wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
VCoug wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
VCoug wrote:
martin wrote:
VCoug wrote:I've made no secret that I want to blow it up and nothing that's happened this season has changed my mind. We're still going nowhere and we still have no obvious path to contention.

The hardest piece for any team to get is franchise player. Outside of Larry Brown's Detroit team, pretty much all finals team had at least 1 player who you would consider one of the best player's in the league. The Knicks just got that player, the potential is there.

The next step is adding to that. My very uninformed plan: Batum this offseason, Westbrook the next. Get lucky with some minor players like LT, Grant, Willy growing like mad at reasonable salaries. Maybe even one of Jordan Bachynski, Thanasis Antetokounmpo, Darion Atkins make the roster.

Rolo, KP, Melo, Batum, Westbrook. LT, Gallo, Grant, Willy.

Why is Batum coming here next year? We're not particularly good and Melo, who's turning 32 in May, looks like his knee is still bothering him. Everyone's going to have cap space so we won't be able to outspend everyone else. Our coaching situation is a mess. And if we don't sign him who are we signing that convinces Westbrook to come here. Next year's FA class isn't particularly good.

Ny is a great opportunity for him to get noticed a little bit. He's a good player that should be coming into his prime and if he wants anyone other than the knowledgeable nba fan to know who he is, this is a great opportunity.

You could have said the same thing last year about Greg Monroe and he decided to play in Milwaukee. If he plays a lot of minutes on a good team he'll have plenty of exposure next year.

And how's that working out for him? He would be a bigger name in the league if he were playing for the Knicks. Some guys want that and some don't. Not sure if batum wants to stand out a little more or if he's content blending into a team anonymously. We will see.

I can't name a single player in the last decade that has gained fame by playing in NYC, not one.

Lin, Lee & now KP

All young and drafted guys who we had bird rights to. No free agent signings there. Hopefully KPh is good enough to build around one day and we can draft another Batman or Robin so they can own the league for the next 15yrs. At that point even our free agent signings will look good in their roles
meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565
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Joined: 5/3/2014
Member: #5801
2/12/2016  8:44 PM
VCoug wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
VCoug wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
VCoug wrote:
martin wrote:
VCoug wrote:I've made no secret that I want to blow it up and nothing that's happened this season has changed my mind. We're still going nowhere and we still have no obvious path to contention.

The hardest piece for any team to get is franchise player. Outside of Larry Brown's Detroit team, pretty much all finals team had at least 1 player who you would consider one of the best player's in the league. The Knicks just got that player, the potential is there.

The next step is adding to that. My very uninformed plan: Batum this offseason, Westbrook the next. Get lucky with some minor players like LT, Grant, Willy growing like mad at reasonable salaries. Maybe even one of Jordan Bachynski, Thanasis Antetokounmpo, Darion Atkins make the roster.

Rolo, KP, Melo, Batum, Westbrook. LT, Gallo, Grant, Willy.

Why is Batum coming here next year? We're not particularly good and Melo, who's turning 32 in May, looks like his knee is still bothering him. Everyone's going to have cap space so we won't be able to outspend everyone else. Our coaching situation is a mess. And if we don't sign him who are we signing that convinces Westbrook to come here. Next year's FA class isn't particularly good.

Ny is a great opportunity for him to get noticed a little bit. He's a good player that should be coming into his prime and if he wants anyone other than the knowledgeable nba fan to know who he is, this is a great opportunity.

You could have said the same thing last year about Greg Monroe and he decided to play in Milwaukee. If he plays a lot of minutes on a good team he'll have plenty of exposure next year.

And how's that working out for him? He would be a bigger name in the league if he were playing for the Knicks. Some guys want that and some don't. Not sure if batum wants to stand out a little more or if he's content blending into a team anonymously. We will see.

I can't name a single player in the last decade that has gained fame by playing in NYC, not one.

Jeremy Lin

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
NumberTwoPencil
Posts: 20936
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Joined: 10/31/2003
Member: #481
USA
2/12/2016  8:46 PM
I _think_ Mark Jackson got fired more because of character issues than for not being a great strategist. Reading between the lines, it looks like his affair, his poor treatment of his assistant coaches, not communicating with the owners, and his Rev. Jackson sermons were the direct reasons for his getting fired. GS, I suspect, would have kept him another year if the only concern was basketball. I like Thibs and while Jackson has his faults, he's not a bad coach. Whoever the Knicks get, I'm not sure genius coaching is really necessary for the next couple of years. We need someone who can keep a locker room together while losing and turning over a lot of players, who is straightforward about accountability and is aiming for the best team possible and not worried about losing when the best is just okay. Our coach needs to spend time developing players but, of course, that's why you have assistants. Presumably, Jackson is going to insist on the triangle but even if the team is playing perfect triangle, they aren't going to winning for a while. Thibs and Jackson, assuming they can dance the triangle well enough for Jackson to punch their card for a few years, are both good choices.
meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565
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Joined: 5/3/2014
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2/12/2016  8:48 PM
I want nothing to do with Mark Jackson as coach, he just seems to be overrated. Never showed anything and I can't understand why people still bring him up.
I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
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Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
2/12/2016  8:50 PM
VCoug wrote:
martin wrote:
VCoug wrote:
martin wrote:
VCoug wrote:
martin wrote:
VCoug wrote:I've made no secret that I want to blow it up and nothing that's happened this season has changed my mind. We're still going nowhere and we still have no obvious path to contention.

The hardest piece for any team to get is franchise player. Outside of Larry Brown's Detroit team, pretty much all finals team had at least 1 player who you would consider one of the best player's in the league. The Knicks just got that player, the potential is there.

The next step is adding to that. My very uninformed plan: Batum this offseason, Westbrook the next. Get lucky with some minor players like LT, Grant, Willy growing like mad at reasonable salaries. Maybe even one of Jordan Bachynski, Thanasis Antetokounmpo, Darion Atkins make the roster.

Rolo, KP, Melo, Batum, Westbrook. LT, Gallo, Grant, Willy.

Why is Batum coming here next year? We're not particularly good and Melo, who's turning 32 in May, looks like his knee is still bothering him. Everyone's going to have cap space so we won't be able to outspend everyone else. Our coaching situation is a mess. And if we don't sign him who are we signing that convinces Westbrook to come here. Next year's FA class isn't particularly good.

KP and $18M per should do it.

Except that Batum has a choice in the matter so why is he coming to a team that's going to win about 30 games this year? Why wouldn't he try to go to Miami or Dallas, teams that can offer him the same money and a chance to win now. Hell, even GS should be able to throw $15M at him, why not go there? I mean, how many times in the history of the NBA has a rookie ever been a big FA draw?

dude you are kind of grasping at straws. Batum isn't a lock to come to NY. AA just came, Rolo just came, others didn't.

If you want to throws names of teams out there as to why Batum WOULDN'T come, at least give it a real go. Think Batum would prefer Miami with Wade, Bosh, no Whiteside, Wislow? Or Dallas with aging Dirk, Matthews and ...? GS will not offer money to Batum when they have Barnes and Thompson.

So why not the Knicks? Big city, Phil, KP, a plan of Westbrook the next year. That's solid.

Did Afflalo or Lopez have any other offers? If they did I don't remember them. Why wouldn't Miami have Whiteside? His cap hold should be more than low enough that they can offer a large contract and still resign him. Is that Dallas situation any better than ours? Dallas has 6 more wins than us and is in the playoff picture.

I think Whiteside is eligible for a max deal. It is mentioned here: http://hoopshype.com/2015/11/18/hassan-whiteside-is-playing-out-of-his-mind-in-a-contract-year/ Also, there is a lot of speculation that Riley is going to go hard after Durant. Afflalo was always supposed to be coming to NY. Lopez wasn't getting signed by anyone until Jordan/Aldridge were no longer in play.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
nixluva
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2/12/2016  8:50 PM
This team isn't that far off from being a winning team. A good PG and SG ought to get this team on the winning side.
StarksEwing1
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Member: #4451
2/12/2016  8:55 PM
nixluva wrote:This team isn't that far off from being a winning team. A good PG and SG ought to get this team on the winning side.
not easy to get both guard positions. We also need a good coach with a track record and freedom to run the show
gunsnewing
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2/12/2016  9:01 PM
nixluva wrote:This team isn't that far off from being a winning team. A good PG and SG ought to get this team on the winning side.

That's what everyone said when Marbury was here. A good C would make us a good playoff team. Then we signed Eddy Curry followed by Jerome James. Everyone felt we were destined to get back in the playoff picture
nixluva
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2/12/2016  9:27 PM
gunsnewing wrote:
nixluva wrote:This team isn't that far off from being a winning team. A good PG and SG ought to get this team on the winning side.

That's what everyone said when Marbury was here. A good C would make us a good playoff team. Then we signed Eddy Curry followed by Jerome James. Everyone felt we were destined to get back in the playoff picture

Yes but it's MUCH easier to get decent guards than a franchise C or PF. Mostly because there are more talented guards coming into the league every year. We're not necessarily talking Superstars. We just need a couple of higher quality guards for the starting lineup.

Besides this is a different regime and I really don't live in the past like that. Building around KP is a different prospect. We're not in a rush.
crzymdups
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2/12/2016  10:14 PM
Looking more and more like it'll be option two.
¿ △ ?
gunsnewing
Posts: 55076
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2/12/2016  11:10 PM
crzymdups wrote:Looking more and more like it'll be option two.

which I voted for!
gunsnewing
Posts: 55076
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2/12/2016  11:13 PM
nixluva wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:
nixluva wrote:This team isn't that far off from being a winning team. A good PG and SG ought to get this team on the winning side.

That's what everyone said when Marbury was here. A good C would make us a good playoff team. Then we signed Eddy Curry followed by Jerome James. Everyone felt we were destined to get back in the playoff picture

Yes but it's MUCH easier to get decent guards than a franchise C or PF. Mostly because there are more talented guards coming into the league every year. We're not necessarily talking Superstars. We just need a couple of higher quality guards for the starting lineup.

Besides this is a different regime and I really don't live in the past like that. Building around KP is a different prospect. We're not in a rush.

Much harder to find a good PG in todays game. PG is much more valuable than C. Used to be the other way around. All the way up to 2006ish. The past 10yrs or some has been all about the guards
gunsnewing
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2/12/2016  11:14 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:I want nothing to do with Mark Jackson as coach, he just seems to be overrated. Never showed anything and I can't understand why people still bring him up.

me either. Are people that unimaginative. Especially the media
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