NardDogNation wrote:

wargames wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

wargames wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

wargames wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Rookie wrote:

callmened wrote:we have nothing good to offer

I think the Hawks really miss Carroll. They would be interested in Thomas and DWill. The question is, are we interested in sending our 2 most productive role players for a starting PG with Teague's skill set.

I don't think we would, but to answer your point, I think we do have something good to offer if we wanted to.

Derrick Williams is the guy the Hawks could use right now. Deal would have to be structured around Derrick and Teague.

If we trade Derrick we can't trade Thomas in the same trade. We just can't.

I think Derrick Williams and Calderón for Teague and maybe Mike Scott gets it done.

Teague would make the Knicks a playoff team.

I disagree. They are a space and pace team offensively and can switch everything defensively. While Derrick is talented, he's not a good shooter or particularly good on switches. Besides, they already have Mike Scott who has a very similar skillset but is a deft shooter.

What the Hawks do need is a starting swingman that can shoot and cover his own position, which Williams has yet to consistently demonstrate. IMO Calderon, Afflalo and picks gets the deal done for Teague. That type of move allows them to get a backup PG (Calderon) to replace the outgoing Teague and Afflalo helps them replace what they lost in DeMarre Carroll, while the picks allow them to compensate for the loss of value from a talent perspective. Getting the picks and the nature of those picks would be the problem though. We'd need to include multiple teams to facilitate that end of the deal.

Carroll played like D Will for them. Slash, Drive to get the And 1, rebound and lead the transition, and shoot the open 3.

AA is mostly posting and shooting the mid range off of passes. That isn't what the Hawks need. They need someone to come in and do what D Will has been doing with their starters. Also based on PER DWill is playing better lately than Teague is.

Carroll is a 3 and D guy and DW can't shoot the 3 very well and has no D so they don't even compare with each other.

actually he has shot the 3 better this season and his D hasn't been bad. Also all the other things he did (In the video I posted) D Will does and why trade for AA when you have Bazemore who is having a career season?

Also I mentioned how the defense wasn't the same..... but Carroll didn't camp in the corner. He was much more versatile than that.

*watch Carroll Highlights and Watch D-Will Highlights and you'll see how the operate in the offense.

I stopped reading after his D hasn't been bad. Sorry but laughing too hard to go on.

Still ignoring my point about the offense huh?

Anyhow bad defense didn't stop them from trading for Hardaway now did it. And D-Will's game matches Carroll's game a whole lot more.

And how many minutes did Hardaway play this season? I'd be shocked if it even amounted to a standard NBA regulation game.

In any case, believe what you want to. We all need to find a way to sleep at night.

What the heck are you talking about?

WSJ wrote this article on D-Will today

"The Knicks hit the jackpot this summer when they signed free-agent forward Derrick Williams, who had been a disappointment in four seasons with Minnesota and Sacramento.

Williams, the No. 2 overall pick in 2011 NBA Draft, seemed destined to become one of the biggest draft busts in history, but instead he has emerged as a key reserve for the Knicks on both ends of the floor. In fact, according to advanced basketball analytics, he leads the Knicks in producing wins for every minute he's on the court.

Even better, Williams is just 24 years old despite playing in his fifth NBA season. But there's one drawback to his startling career reversal: It may end up speeding his exit out of town.

The 6-foot-8, 240-pound forward has a player option to forgo next year's scheduled $4.4 million salary, according to Spotrac.com, and opt for free agency in an off-season when the NBA salary cap is set to explode.

Would Williams, who has yet to start a game this season, be content to continue as one of the NBA's best sixth men? Perhaps not. His combined offensive and defensive value is estimated to be worth a team-best 0.140 wins per 48 minutes of court time. In other words, a team of five players exactly as efficient as Williams would be expected to have a winning percentage of .700, or about 57 wins.

This is what was expected from Williams when he entered the NBA after a second-team All-American season at Arizona. But his overall efficiency prior to joining the Knicks was only about half of what it's been this season. That's why the Knicks are Williams's third team in five years.

This season, Williams is shooting above his career rate (.441, up from .431), but most important, he's getting to the free-throw line with much greater frequency (about three times more per 36 minutes than he averaged before). As a result, the Knicks are using Williams more frequently when he's on the court for his 16.7 minutes a game, running an estimated 24.4% of their plays through him, versus the 17.4% he received with the Kings."
----------

D-Will also has the highest Defensive Rebound rating this season for the whole league. His defense has actually improved. He's not a 3andD guy but he isn't Tim Hardaway either and yeah I would be surprised if a trade for Teague happened and he wasn't the piece being offered.

ESPN said the same thing in the article they wrote today about the trade rumor. D-Will or AA would be the center piece and I really doubt the knicks do a trade and don't ship Calderon out, but hey keep dismissing what I wrote, its just professionals agree with me on D-Will's value.

smackeddog wrote:What interests me about Teague is if his salary is just $8mil, and we got rid of Calderon, we might be able to free up enough room to also get Bateman in the offseason. That would give us:

Pg- Teague
Sg- Batum
SF- Melo
Pf- KP
C- Lopez

With maybe Afflalo as sixth man. You could also field a lineup of Teague, Afflalo, batum, Melo and KP

Yep and if they keep Grant, Gallo, and Lance that's a very strong playoff rotation.

wargames wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

wargames wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

wargames wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

wargames wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Rookie wrote:

callmened wrote:we have nothing good to offer

I think the Hawks really miss Carroll. They would be interested in Thomas and DWill. The question is, are we interested in sending our 2 most productive role players for a starting PG with Teague's skill set.

I don't think we would, but to answer your point, I think we do have something good to offer if we wanted to.

Derrick Williams is the guy the Hawks could use right now. Deal would have to be structured around Derrick and Teague.

If we trade Derrick we can't trade Thomas in the same trade. We just can't.

I think Derrick Williams and Calderón for Teague and maybe Mike Scott gets it done.

Teague would make the Knicks a playoff team.

I disagree. They are a space and pace team offensively and can switch everything defensively. While Derrick is talented, he's not a good shooter or particularly good on switches. Besides, they already have Mike Scott who has a very similar skillset but is a deft shooter.

What the Hawks do need is a starting swingman that can shoot and cover his own position, which Williams has yet to consistently demonstrate. IMO Calderon, Afflalo and picks gets the deal done for Teague. That type of move allows them to get a backup PG (Calderon) to replace the outgoing Teague and Afflalo helps them replace what they lost in DeMarre Carroll, while the picks allow them to compensate for the loss of value from a talent perspective. Getting the picks and the nature of those picks would be the problem though. We'd need to include multiple teams to facilitate that end of the deal.

Carroll played like D Will for them. Slash, Drive to get the And 1, rebound and lead the transition, and shoot the open 3.

AA is mostly posting and shooting the mid range off of passes. That isn't what the Hawks need. They need someone to come in and do what D Will has been doing with their starters. Also based on PER DWill is playing better lately than Teague is.

Carroll is a 3 and D guy and DW can't shoot the 3 very well and has no D so they don't even compare with each other.

actually he has shot the 3 better this season and his D hasn't been bad. Also all the other things he did (In the video I posted) D Will does and why trade for AA when you have Bazemore who is having a career season?

Also I mentioned how the defense wasn't the same..... but Carroll didn't camp in the corner. He was much more versatile than that.

*watch Carroll Highlights and Watch D-Will Highlights and you'll see how the operate in the offense.

I stopped reading after his D hasn't been bad. Sorry but laughing too hard to go on.

Still ignoring my point about the offense huh?

Anyhow bad defense didn't stop them from trading for Hardaway now did it. And D-Will's game matches Carroll's game a whole lot more.

And how many minutes did Hardaway play this season? I'd be shocked if it even amounted to a standard NBA regulation game.

In any case, believe what you want to. We all need to find a way to sleep at night.

What the heck are you talking about?

WSJ wrote this article on D-Will today

"The Knicks hit the jackpot this summer when they signed free-agent forward Derrick Williams, who had been a disappointment in four seasons with Minnesota and Sacramento.

Williams, the No. 2 overall pick in 2011 NBA Draft, seemed destined to become one of the biggest draft busts in history, but instead he has emerged as a key reserve for the Knicks on both ends of the floor. In fact, according to advanced basketball analytics, he leads the Knicks in producing wins for every minute he's on the court.

Even better, Williams is just 24 years old despite playing in his fifth NBA season. But there's one drawback to his startling career reversal: It may end up speeding his exit out of town.

The 6-foot-8, 240-pound forward has a player option to forgo next year's scheduled $4.4 million salary, according to Spotrac.com, and opt for free agency in an off-season when the NBA salary cap is set to explode.

Would Williams, who has yet to start a game this season, be content to continue as one of the NBA's best sixth men? Perhaps not. His combined offensive and defensive value is estimated to be worth a team-best 0.140 wins per 48 minutes of court time. In other words, a team of five players exactly as efficient as Williams would be expected to have a winning percentage of .700, or about 57 wins.

This is what was expected from Williams when he entered the NBA after a second-team All-American season at Arizona. But his overall efficiency prior to joining the Knicks was only about half of what it's been this season. That's why the Knicks are Williams's third team in five years.

This season, Williams is shooting above his career rate (.441, up from .431), but most important, he's getting to the free-throw line with much greater frequency (about three times more per 36 minutes than he averaged before). As a result, the Knicks are using Williams more frequently when he's on the court for his 16.7 minutes a game, running an estimated 24.4% of their plays through him, versus the 17.4% he received with the Kings."
----------

D-Will also has the highest Defensive Rebound rating this season for the whole league. His defense has actually improved. He's not a 3andD guy but he isn't Tim Hardaway either and yeah I would be surprised if a trade for Teague happened and he wasn't the piece being offered.

ESPN said the same thing in the article they wrote today about the trade rumor. D-Will or AA would be the center piece and I really doubt the knicks do a trade and don't ship Calderon out, but hey keep dismissing what I wrote, its just professionals agree with me on D-Will's value.

Now after all that is said, go back to where I suggested that D-Will wasn't a valuable player. Hell, go back and find where I said Demarre Carroll is the better player.

This game isn't just about getting a bunch of talented players....it is also about fit. That's why a team like the Cavs, who have 3 franchise caliber players, can't seem to beat the Warriors who only have one bona-fided one (Steph Curry).

And as I've been saying, D-Will is a poor fit for the Hawks....that has nothing to actually do with how good he is though. For example, Al Jefferson is a pretty good/talented player but he hardly fits any teams' style now.

Rookie wrote:Does anyone see DWill projecting as a starter on next years team? If so, then you have to pay him and make him a starter. If not, and you can get a starting PG for him (Teague), you can start to see why the Knicks are in the conversation with Atlanta for him. Would love to see the Knicks try and keep the core together, but we need to get the Starting 5 right before we start paying role players big$$.

Beal and Derozan are also FA's next year and could play next to Teague making us a lot more athletic.

NardDogNation wrote:

Rookie wrote:Does anyone see DWill projecting as a starter on next years team? If so, then you have to pay him and make him a starter. If not, and you can get a starting PG for him (Teague), you can start to see why the Knicks are in the conversation with Atlanta for him. Would love to see the Knicks try and keep the core together, but we need to get the Starting 5 right before we start paying role players big$$.

Beal and Derozan are also FA's next year and could play next to Teague making us a lot more athletic.

How much is D-Will's cap hold? If we move Jose Calderon (and possibly Kyle O'Quinn) beforehand, couldn't we just sign someone to the max and then exceed the cap to pay D-Will?

smackeddog wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Rookie wrote:Does anyone see DWill projecting as a starter on next years team? If so, then you have to pay him and make him a starter. If not, and you can get a starting PG for him (Teague), you can start to see why the Knicks are in the conversation with Atlanta for him. Would love to see the Knicks try and keep the core together, but we need to get the Starting 5 right before we start paying role players big$$.

Beal and Derozan are also FA's next year and could play next to Teague making us a lot more athletic.

How much is D-Will's cap hold? If we move Jose Calderon (and possibly Kyle O'Quinn) beforehand, couldn't we just sign someone to the max and then exceed the cap to pay D-Will?

As I understand it, we don't have any rights regarding him as he would only have played 1 year with us

We don't which is why it makes sense to move him. AA is a lot more likely to stay pat at 8 mil a year than D-Will at 5.

NardDogNation wrote:

wargames wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

wargames wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

wargames wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

wargames wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Rookie wrote:

callmened wrote:we have nothing good to offer

I think the Hawks really miss Carroll. They would be interested in Thomas and DWill. The question is, are we interested in sending our 2 most productive role players for a starting PG with Teague's skill set.

I don't think we would, but to answer your point, I think we do have something good to offer if we wanted to.

Derrick Williams is the guy the Hawks could use right now. Deal would have to be structured around Derrick and Teague.

If we trade Derrick we can't trade Thomas in the same trade. We just can't.

I think Derrick Williams and Calderón for Teague and maybe Mike Scott gets it done.

Teague would make the Knicks a playoff team.

I disagree. They are a space and pace team offensively and can switch everything defensively. While Derrick is talented, he's not a good shooter or particularly good on switches. Besides, they already have Mike Scott who has a very similar skillset but is a deft shooter.

What the Hawks do need is a starting swingman that can shoot and cover his own position, which Williams has yet to consistently demonstrate. IMO Calderon, Afflalo and picks gets the deal done for Teague. That type of move allows them to get a backup PG (Calderon) to replace the outgoing Teague and Afflalo helps them replace what they lost in DeMarre Carroll, while the picks allow them to compensate for the loss of value from a talent perspective. Getting the picks and the nature of those picks would be the problem though. We'd need to include multiple teams to facilitate that end of the deal.

Carroll played like D Will for them. Slash, Drive to get the And 1, rebound and lead the transition, and shoot the open 3.

AA is mostly posting and shooting the mid range off of passes. That isn't what the Hawks need. They need someone to come in and do what D Will has been doing with their starters. Also based on PER DWill is playing better lately than Teague is.

Carroll is a 3 and D guy and DW can't shoot the 3 very well and has no D so they don't even compare with each other.

actually he has shot the 3 better this season and his D hasn't been bad. Also all the other things he did (In the video I posted) D Will does and why trade for AA when you have Bazemore who is having a career season?

Also I mentioned how the defense wasn't the same..... but Carroll didn't camp in the corner. He was much more versatile than that.

*watch Carroll Highlights and Watch D-Will Highlights and you'll see how the operate in the offense.

I stopped reading after his D hasn't been bad. Sorry but laughing too hard to go on.

Still ignoring my point about the offense huh?

Anyhow bad defense didn't stop them from trading for Hardaway now did it. And D-Will's game matches Carroll's game a whole lot more.

And how many minutes did Hardaway play this season? I'd be shocked if it even amounted to a standard NBA regulation game.

In any case, believe what you want to. We all need to find a way to sleep at night.

What the heck are you talking about?

WSJ wrote this article on D-Will today

"The Knicks hit the jackpot this summer when they signed free-agent forward Derrick Williams, who had been a disappointment in four seasons with Minnesota and Sacramento.

Williams, the No. 2 overall pick in 2011 NBA Draft, seemed destined to become one of the biggest draft busts in history, but instead he has emerged as a key reserve for the Knicks on both ends of the floor. In fact, according to advanced basketball analytics, he leads the Knicks in producing wins for every minute he's on the court.

Even better, Williams is just 24 years old despite playing in his fifth NBA season. But there's one drawback to his startling career reversal: It may end up speeding his exit out of town.

The 6-foot-8, 240-pound forward has a player option to forgo next year's scheduled $4.4 million salary, according to Spotrac.com, and opt for free agency in an off-season when the NBA salary cap is set to explode.

Would Williams, who has yet to start a game this season, be content to continue as one of the NBA's best sixth men? Perhaps not. His combined offensive and defensive value is estimated to be worth a team-best 0.140 wins per 48 minutes of court time. In other words, a team of five players exactly as efficient as Williams would be expected to have a winning percentage of .700, or about 57 wins.

This is what was expected from Williams when he entered the NBA after a second-team All-American season at Arizona. But his overall efficiency prior to joining the Knicks was only about half of what it's been this season. That's why the Knicks are Williams's third team in five years.

This season, Williams is shooting above his career rate (.441, up from .431), but most important, he's getting to the free-throw line with much greater frequency (about three times more per 36 minutes than he averaged before). As a result, the Knicks are using Williams more frequently when he's on the court for his 16.7 minutes a game, running an estimated 24.4% of their plays through him, versus the 17.4% he received with the Kings."
----------

D-Will also has the highest Defensive Rebound rating this season for the whole league. His defense has actually improved. He's not a 3andD guy but he isn't Tim Hardaway either and yeah I would be surprised if a trade for Teague happened and he wasn't the piece being offered.

ESPN said the same thing in the article they wrote today about the trade rumor. D-Will or AA would be the center piece and I really doubt the knicks do a trade and don't ship Calderon out, but hey keep dismissing what I wrote, its just professionals agree with me on D-Will's value.

Now after all that is said, go back to where I suggested that D-Will wasn't a valuable player. Hell, go back and find where I said Demarre Carroll is the better player.

This game isn't just about getting a bunch of talented players....it is also about fit. That's why a team like the Cavs, who have 3 franchise caliber players, can't seem to beat the Warriors who only have one bona-fided one (Steph Curry).

And as I've been saying, D-Will is a poor fit for the Hawks....that has nothing to actually do with how good he is though. For example, Al Jefferson is a pretty good/talented player but he hardly fits any teams' style now.

D.Green is absolutely a franchise player and Klay is a great #2 on a team and who knows if he wasn't playing with Steph he'd probably be shooting a tom more 3 balls and scoring a good amount more.

reub wrote:Atl is looking for a 3 and D wing from what I've read.

Here's my trade:

Lance Thomas and Jose Calderon for Teague

The salaries match and then we call up Darion Atkins who is Lance 2.0 with more rebounds and blocks to replace LT.

Just as an FYI to all, LT has a no trade contract.