newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Thats sad, and I'm not taking anything away from melo, because i never was against him. Whats sad is that the supporting cast isn't as good as we would like to assume or, fisher is so reliant on melo to make him look remotely respectable.

AA is a nice pick up for the price, but he was shooting pretty bad for most of the night, and KP should have taken the last shot in regulation.

Calderon is one of our best shooters and passers, robin lopez is our best screener, and they actual won a game in the final seconds just a week ago. Yet both were on the bench and you draw up a AA ISO..wow

Ask any coach on the planet, and they will tell you, the last 5 minutes in a close game is where they earn their bread. Fisher has got to learn how and when to use calderone, grant, and Lopez, It is definitely costing us games.

We should not be 0-5 with out melo, or that's basically saying we would probably win 20 games, similar to last season. Which makes phil look like he didn't do much of nothing.

The bulls won 50+ games without jordan

They have Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka a solid bench with Waiters, Kanter. They are on pace to win over 50 games this yr. And are one of the contenders in the West. We played without one of our 2 best players while they had 2 superstars in the lineup. I understand the frustration of having that game won being up 4 pts with like a 1 min left. The fact that they competed with the likes of Durant and Westbrook shows strength not weakness.

Galloway dropped 21-5-3 and 4 threes.
Williams dropped 19-10-4
Thomas dropped 16-4-1-1-1
KP dropped 15-5-2-2

We had 6 players in double figures for pts. We shot 30fts collectively, 24ast-9Tos, 9stls, 7blks, 46fg% 47% from 3.

How do u beat OKC Durant/Westbrook scoring .. the Nets used 10 players on the same-page to outscore OKC for the win. The Knicks-players were on the same path as the Nets to get a win over OKC.
We had a tied score, coach Fisher gave the final shot in regulation to a player (Afflalo) who were 5-18 in fg shooting that night. Plus 9-33 from the field (3-9 from 3) in the last 3 games.
When all Fisher had to do was just put in Lopez for the final play to create spacing in the post and it would open up shots for everyone else.

dk7th wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Thats sad, and I'm not taking anything away from melo, because i never was against him. Whats sad is that the supporting cast isn't as good as we would like to assume or, fisher is so reliant on melo to make him look remotely respectable.

AA is a nice pick up for the price, but he was shooting pretty bad for most of the night, and KP should have taken the last shot in regulation.

Calderon is one of our best shooters and passers, robin lopez is our best screener, and they actual won a game in the final seconds just a week ago. Yet both were on the bench and you draw up a AA ISO..wow

Ask any coach on the planet, and they will tell you, the last 5 minutes in a close game is where they earn their bread. Fisher has got to learn how and when to use calderone, grant, and Lopez, It is definitely costing us games.

We should not be 0-5 with out melo, or that's basically saying we would probably win 20 games, similar to last season. Which makes phil look like he didn't do much of nothing.

The bulls won 50+ games without jordan

man the unrealistic expectations are truly baffling. This was just an incredible game to me, showed me how far the Knicks have come from scratch last season and how far they still need to go all in 1 game.

Let me rephrase the gist of your post: Why can't the Knicks beat the 3rd best team in the league without their own best player? OKC has 2 of the best 5 guys on the planet, a solid all defensive PF/low level all star and a solid supporting cast. Why can't Fisher just out coach players who are afterthoughts for other teams and some barely above D-League'ish guys?

There is no doubt that some of the Knicks played over their collective heads, witness DWill hitting jumpers and LT going off after a long injury break and Grant finally showing up this season with an aggressive stance. But our guys just went head to head with another top level team not named GSW. Knicks make playoffs and they are the 1 team no one wants to play.

Just like the players, the coaches don't always make the right decisions, and in the clutch, fisher and his staff have been very suspect. They have to get better.

moral wins do nothing for your confidence. If that was melo on the ISO play that AA had last night against the thunder, he would have been crucified, and if Woodson was the coach, he would have been buried alive for his lack of creativity.

So MARTIN tell me how long will you continue to give Fisher and his staff excuse after excuse, these players phil brought in had options, the Knicks weren't the last available. We don't have other teams cast offs. We know galloway is capable of nights like he had, no suprise for anyone, so i don't know what d leaguers you speak of.

Did you not think LOPEZ (your better defender) and calderon (your better decision maker and shooter) not be on thE floor for your LAST DEFENSIVE AND OFFENSIVE POSSESSION, THAT'S A COACH'S CALL, dude you know that. I'm talking reality, this isn't some off the wall see if can stick thing.

They have to get better with the rotation, it's the only thing IMO thats killing them

you're still under the assumption that afflalo's shot over two defenders from the corner was the play that was designed. no play is designed for one player to take a fadeaway over two defenders. afflalo had two opportunities to make the right play, which was to pass the ball to kp. he failed both times.

face it, the coach has no control over the weaknesses of his players. afflalo is not an nba starter and he proved why in no uncertain terms last night. fisher's postgame comments were telling.

I have to agree 100% with DK7th ... last year Afflalo prove on two teams (Denver/Portland) he is not a NBA starter or 2nd or 3rd option scorer.

gunsnewing wrote:I don't think Fisher is implying anything other than what he said in this case DK? I'm not seeing anything that's "Telling" in his words. His response is pretty straight forward

the last play in regulation: was it designed for afflalo or kp? i say afflalo broke the play. what do you say?

knicks1248 wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Not many teams (especially .500 teams) will win when you remove a third of their payroll. That's just not realistic. I'm impressed by how close they kept it yesterday.

yea this... I mean this was a 17 win team last year. We added some really good parts, but this is still very much a work in progress. I mean if you roadmap this out its like this:
year 1: tank and purge and draft
year 2: build the roster, establish style of play, hopefully establish a core
year 3: next level, advance in playoffs, challenge for division, etc...

I mean for year 2 we are looking pretty good. We compete every night. If we stay healthy we probably are +500 and make the playoffs and KP/Melo/Rolo are a legit frontcourt to build around. What we dont have is depth. We have a lot of guys but they are not established so there is a lot of up and down. Gallo hasnt had a game like that in a month.

Patience. I hear you... we get a taste of winning and some quality wins as well so people want more but the progress is there.

I agree here, but there are some things that need to be added to the coaching staff, I'm not say getting rid of fisher, but there needs to be a sound logical mind added to that coaching staff, someone who knows more than just the triangle.

So i'm noticing that this thread is just another way to bash Fisher but the Fisher hate by some isn't correct and you can't just blame every loss on him. Players still have to play the game.

I'm not bashing fisher, Can you comfortably say that he's doing a great job? I don't think so, an he's not the only coach on the staff. It's a collective of minds that don't alway make the right decisions.

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I don't think Fisher is implying anything other than what he said in this case DK? I'm not seeing anything that's "Telling" in his words. His response is pretty straight forward

the last play in regulation: was it designed for afflalo or kp? i say afflalo broke the play. what do you say?

Having watched the game. The Knicks ran the ISO play for Affalo multple times in the 4th as we blew a double digit lead and ultimately the game. It's one thing to set up an ISO play but when the double team comes you have to gmhave the vision and court awareness to hit the open man which was KP & DW on numerous occassions. Problem is as we discussed for weeks now. Affalo is the ultimate blackhole. He had tunnel vision and the defense knows it.

Now I ask you. Do we only kill Afflalo knowing his limitations of the coach who continued to put the ball in his hands to make plays out of timeouts?

This is why you need a real PG. One with some real balls to direct the offense and know not to keep feeding a guy who is 5-20 who everyone knows is a blackhole.

It ain't hard.

I'll just chalf this up under Fisher's learning process for now. He has to improve his X&0's sooner or later. The fact he is a great motivator and has us in these games is wonderful but he's gotta get to that next level otherwise he's just another Mark Jackson/Byron Scott

gunsnewing wrote:

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I don't think Fisher is implying anything other than what he said in this case DK? I'm not seeing anything that's "Telling" in his words. His response is pretty straight forward

the last play in regulation: was it designed for afflalo or kp? i say afflalo broke the play. what do you say?

Having watched the game. The Knicks ran the ISO play for Affalo multple times in the 4th as we blew a double digit lead and ultimately the game. It's one thing to set up an ISO play but when the double team comes you have to gmhave the vision and court awareness to hit the open man which was KP & DW on numerous occassions. Problem is as we discussed for weeks now. Affalo is the ultimate blackhole. He had tunnel vision and the defense knows it.

Now I ask you. Do we only kill Afflalo knowing his limitations of the coach who continued to put the ball in his hands to make plays out of timeouts?

This is why you need a real PG. One with some real balls to direct the offense and know not to keep feeding a guy who is 5-20 who everyone knows is a blackhole.

It ain't hard.

I'll just chalf this up under Fisher's learning process for now. He has to improve his X&0's sooner or later. The fact he is a great motivator and has us in these games is wonderful but he's gotta get to that next level otherwise he's just another Mark Jackson/Byron Scott

i agree with you about affalo 100%.

HOWEVER

a coach has to strategize over the season, losing battles on occasion to win the war in the long run. what i mean is that he went to afflalo to give him a crack at making plays for others. afflalo failed, miserably. so the press conference with fisher was coach-speak covering for his player. all coaches do that. behind the scenes, i expect there is a lot of film to study with afflalo and a reduction in minutes. last night should have been the final straw. i don't buy the "well afflalo has gotten hot in 4th quarters before so we should be okay with him taking the last shot." nonsense. it's a team game. let the hero ball be off a decent pass and not a one on one bryant/bad melo heave.

so if you ask if the loss should be laid at fisher's feet, right now i say "no." if we end up with a similar scenario with afflalo again-- melo out, end of game final play-- then i will be very upset with fisher. a coach has got to recognize a player's limitations but only after having seen the same habits, unbreakable habits exhibited. fisher has surely seen enough to work on reducing afflalo's minutes and look elesewhere for end-of-game plays to run.

fisher made the exact same kind of demurral to the press with anthony earlier in the season, and we immediately saw a change to melo's game, which has been fantastic for melo, melo's team-- and fisher.

so in a way i too chalk it up to fisher's learning process, but of course my account is different. i like fisher.

dk7th wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I don't think Fisher is implying anything other than what he said in this case DK? I'm not seeing anything that's "Telling" in his words. His response is pretty straight forward

the last play in regulation: was it designed for afflalo or kp? i say afflalo broke the play. what do you say?

Having watched the game. The Knicks ran the ISO play for Affalo multple times in the 4th as we blew a double digit lead and ultimately the game. It's one thing to set up an ISO play but when the double team comes you have to gmhave the vision and court awareness to hit the open man which was KP & DW on numerous occassions. Problem is as we discussed for weeks now. Affalo is the ultimate blackhole. He had tunnel vision and the defense knows it.

Now I ask you. Do we only kill Afflalo knowing his limitations of the coach who continued to put the ball in his hands to make plays out of timeouts?

This is why you need a real PG. One with some real balls to direct the offense and know not to keep feeding a guy who is 5-20 who everyone knows is a blackhole.

It ain't hard.

I'll just chalf this up under Fisher's learning process for now. He has to improve his X&0's sooner or later. The fact he is a great motivator and has us in these games is wonderful but he's gotta get to that next level otherwise he's just another Mark Jackson/Byron Scott

which is why i was even more confused as to why calderon was on the bench. Westbrook doubled at the right time, it was to late to pass.

westbrook doubled at the perfect time, you are correct-- but the time to have passed had already passed, ie porzingis should have gotten the ball. he was standing right there. plenty of time to give him the ball, and cut to the basket once the double came to kp. but no-- afflalo gets the ball, afflalo keeps the ball, afflalo shoots the ball. utterly predictable and therefore easily defended. where have we seen this sort of play before?

I know that AA isnt kobe or MJ, but he's getting the ball exactly where they did in this system almost mirroring there moves. I hardly ever saw those 2 consistently pass out of a double, they would continue to shoot that fadaway until it was automatic.

For all we know, the coaching staff can be telling him to goto work once you gets the ball down there. Theres been quite a few games where AA takes less then 10 shots per game.

I absolutely dont think he's a black hole, i think hes doing what is ask of him as one of our main scorers

dk7th wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I don't think Fisher is implying anything other than what he said in this case DK? I'm not seeing anything that's "Telling" in his words. His response is pretty straight forward

the last play in regulation: was it designed for afflalo or kp? i say afflalo broke the play. what do you say?

Having watched the game. The Knicks ran the ISO play for Affalo multple times in the 4th as we blew a double digit lead and ultimately the game. It's one thing to set up an ISO play but when the double team comes you have to gmhave the vision and court awareness to hit the open man which was KP & DW on numerous occassions. Problem is as we discussed for weeks now. Affalo is the ultimate blackhole. He had tunnel vision and the defense knows it.

Now I ask you. Do we only kill Afflalo knowing his limitations of the coach who continued to put the ball in his hands to make plays out of timeouts?

This is why you need a real PG. One with some real balls to direct the offense and know not to keep feeding a guy who is 5-20 who everyone knows is a blackhole.

It ain't hard.

I'll just chalf this up under Fisher's learning process for now. He has to improve his X&0's sooner or later. The fact he is a great motivator and has us in these games is wonderful but he's gotta get to that next level otherwise he's just another Mark Jackson/Byron Scott

which is why i was even more confused as to why calderon was on the bench. Westbrook doubled at the right time, it was to late to pass.

westbrook doubled at the perfect time, you are correct-- but the time to have passed had already passed, ie porzingis should have gotten the ball. he was standing right there. plenty of time to give him the ball, and cut to the basket once the double came to kp. but no-- afflalo gets the ball, afflalo keeps the ball, afflalo shoots the ball. utterly predictable and therefore easily defended. where have we seen this sort of play before?

I know that AA isnt kobe or MJ, but he's getting the ball exactly where they did in this system almost mirroring there moves. I hardly ever saw those 2 consistently pass out of a double, they would continue to shoot that fadaway until it was automatic.

For all we know, the coaching staff can be telling him to goto work once you gets the ball down there. Theres been quite a few games where AA takes less then 10 shots per game.

I absolutely dont think he's a black hole, i think hes doing what is ask of him as one of our main scorers

you are entitled to your interpretation of how things are shaking out with him, but i think we can agree that if afflalo's minutes are cut down from where they are at present, which is 33 minutes, to something less, say 28-29 minutes, that is a sign of fisher adapting. similarly, if melo-less end of game scenarios shift away from afflalo to other players, then you will be free to interpret things differently at that time. i am counting on fisher doing what i have outlined here.

you have a better shot at getting with a kardashian over the wknd.

We have another game against a solid opponet in the Raptors tonight without Melo, Fisher will once again botch the rotaion by playing someone too long, too short, or just at the wrong time.

Watch closely to the last 5 minutes if it's close.

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

dk7th wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:I don't think Fisher is implying anything other than what he said in this case DK? I'm not seeing anything that's "Telling" in his words. His response is pretty straight forward

the last play in regulation: was it designed for afflalo or kp? i say afflalo broke the play. what do you say?

Having watched the game. The Knicks ran the ISO play for Affalo multple times in the 4th as we blew a double digit lead and ultimately the game. It's one thing to set up an ISO play but when the double team comes you have to gmhave the vision and court awareness to hit the open man which was KP & DW on numerous occassions. Problem is as we discussed for weeks now. Affalo is the ultimate blackhole. He had tunnel vision and the defense knows it.

Now I ask you. Do we only kill Afflalo knowing his limitations of the coach who continued to put the ball in his hands to make plays out of timeouts?

This is why you need a real PG. One with some real balls to direct the offense and know not to keep feeding a guy who is 5-20 who everyone knows is a blackhole.

It ain't hard.

I'll just chalf this up under Fisher's learning process for now. He has to improve his X&0's sooner or later. The fact he is a great motivator and has us in these games is wonderful but he's gotta get to that next level otherwise he's just another Mark Jackson/Byron Scott

i agree with you about affalo 100%.

HOWEVER

a coach has to strategize over the season, losing battles on occasion to win the war in the long run. what i mean is that he went to afflalo to give him a crack at making plays for others. afflalo failed, miserably. so the press conference with fisher was coach-speak covering for his player. all coaches do that. behind the scenes, i expect there is a lot of film to study with afflalo and a reduction in minutes. last night should have been the final straw. i don't buy the "well afflalo has gotten hot in 4th quarters before so we should be okay with him taking the last shot." nonsense. it's a team game. let the hero ball be off a decent pass and not a one on one bryant/bad melo heave.

so if you ask if the loss should be laid at fisher's feet, right now i say "no." if we end up with a similar scenario with afflalo again-- melo out, end of game final play-- then i will be very upset with fisher. a coach has got to recognize a player's limitations but only after having seen the same habits, unbreakable habits exhibited. fisher has surely seen enough to work on reducing afflalo's minutes and look elesewhere for end-of-game plays to run.

fisher made the exact same kind of demurral to the press with anthony earlier in the season, and we immediately saw a change to melo's game, which has been fantastic for melo, melo's team-- and fisher.

so in a way i too chalk it up to fisher's learning process, but of course my account is different. i like fisher.

He might've spoke to Afflalo behind close doors but there is no indications in his words to read into