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Knicks going after M.Conley in the off season.
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newyorker4ever
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1/19/2016  4:11 PM
martin wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:
magicTs wrote:Batum and an elite PG alongside KP and Melo would be fantastic. We would be a huge threat in the East.

In theory, that PG could be Grant with a jumper. All we need from Grant is to improve his recognition of how to run the Triangle and mainly to improve his 3 point shot. The summer league and working on it all summer would go a long way. He has all the skills to attack the basket, to defend, to be a point guard. He needs the other stuff, to be a starter for us.

I'm more in line with getting players on good contracts - best bang for your buck than paying a guy superstar money when he isn't worth it. You look at us with guys like Afflalo, Calderon, Derrick Williams - all have been solid. They're being paid 4-8 million each and bringing it and worth the value. Lopez is also worth the contract he got. Easily movable via trade if we want to make one, and also not impacted the capspace for 2016 or 2017.

You sign a guy for 20-22 million, which is Carmelo money, and he doesn't fit in great or has a decline in his play (very possible with some of these free agents) you're screwed in many ways. That has been the Knicks mantra for years. It wouldn't shock me if Phil Jackson goes in with a mindset of getting a bargain from the players not named DeRozan, otherwise settling for quality role players that want to come in for reasonable 2-3 year deals.

I think Phil will want to max out Durant if he can. After that, I'll be surprised if he thinks DeRozan is worth 25 million a year. Batum is worth 20 million a year. Conley worth 20 million a year. That's basically close to Melo money. I think he makes a play for Durant, and after does what he did this past offseason. Maybe go after guys like Lance Stephenson, Mario Chalmers and possibly Parsons. We're a .500 caliber team as is, with improvement from Porzingis/Grant next year we're likely a 45-48 win team. Add some veteran solid free agents, we're as good as any team in the East not having Lebron James.

Durant is a complete pipe dream. He's not going anywhere.

20-22 Million was Carmelo money when the cap was $60M. The cap is going to be $90M this summer and $109M the summer after that. 20-22 Million is now Mike Conley, Nic Batum money. That's the reality.

If both AA and DW opt out of their final year which is expected and we re-sign both to more money which both will want then you can say bye bye to getting either Conley or Batum or any max guy.

Seriously dude, this is the 3rd time. The Knicks would NEVER EVER EVER EVER re-sign AA and DW to bigger deals if they could sign Conely, Batum or a Max guys. That's just a bad assumption on your part.

Why do you keep posting this hypothetical? It doesn't make sense and is very ass backwards. You can do that with any team.

If my team signs all of it's role players to bigger deals thus making it such that their cap is really small, oh no, they could miss out on signing a really talented player. yay.

Why do you keep posting that?

The odd and funny thing here is that you are also ASSUMING that they won't re-sign DW and AA to new contracts and you have ZERO way of proving they would so you should really just stop ASSUMING things cause it's not a good look for you.

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martin
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1/19/2016  4:16 PM
newyorker4ever wrote:
martin wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:
magicTs wrote:Batum and an elite PG alongside KP and Melo would be fantastic. We would be a huge threat in the East.

In theory, that PG could be Grant with a jumper. All we need from Grant is to improve his recognition of how to run the Triangle and mainly to improve his 3 point shot. The summer league and working on it all summer would go a long way. He has all the skills to attack the basket, to defend, to be a point guard. He needs the other stuff, to be a starter for us.

I'm more in line with getting players on good contracts - best bang for your buck than paying a guy superstar money when he isn't worth it. You look at us with guys like Afflalo, Calderon, Derrick Williams - all have been solid. They're being paid 4-8 million each and bringing it and worth the value. Lopez is also worth the contract he got. Easily movable via trade if we want to make one, and also not impacted the capspace for 2016 or 2017.

You sign a guy for 20-22 million, which is Carmelo money, and he doesn't fit in great or has a decline in his play (very possible with some of these free agents) you're screwed in many ways. That has been the Knicks mantra for years. It wouldn't shock me if Phil Jackson goes in with a mindset of getting a bargain from the players not named DeRozan, otherwise settling for quality role players that want to come in for reasonable 2-3 year deals.

I think Phil will want to max out Durant if he can. After that, I'll be surprised if he thinks DeRozan is worth 25 million a year. Batum is worth 20 million a year. Conley worth 20 million a year. That's basically close to Melo money. I think he makes a play for Durant, and after does what he did this past offseason. Maybe go after guys like Lance Stephenson, Mario Chalmers and possibly Parsons. We're a .500 caliber team as is, with improvement from Porzingis/Grant next year we're likely a 45-48 win team. Add some veteran solid free agents, we're as good as any team in the East not having Lebron James.

Durant is a complete pipe dream. He's not going anywhere.

20-22 Million was Carmelo money when the cap was $60M. The cap is going to be $90M this summer and $109M the summer after that. 20-22 Million is now Mike Conley, Nic Batum money. That's the reality.

If both AA and DW opt out of their final year which is expected and we re-sign both to more money which both will want then you can say bye bye to getting either Conley or Batum or any max guy.

Seriously dude, this is the 3rd time. The Knicks would NEVER EVER EVER EVER re-sign AA and DW to bigger deals if they could sign Conely, Batum or a Max guys. That's just a bad assumption on your part.

Why do you keep posting this hypothetical? It doesn't make sense and is very ass backwards. You can do that with any team.

If my team signs all of it's role players to bigger deals thus making it such that their cap is really small, oh no, they could miss out on signing a really talented player. yay.

Why do you keep posting that?

The odd and funny thing here is that you are also ASSUMING that they won't re-sign DW and AA to new contracts and you have ZERO way of proving they would so you should really just stop ASSUMING things cause it's not a good look for you.

The premise of your post is that the Knicks won't have enough room to sign Conley, Batum, Max guy if they resign DW, AA to bigger contracts. That's the assumption. Your assumption. You keep posting that as if it were meaningful and there is no other choice.

There is a choice: don't do it. Sign the other guys. The Knicks got $19M in cap space. Can get a bit more if they are creative.

You are creating a straw man scenario and then complaining that the knicks may do it and then lose out on something else. Well duh.

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nyknickzingis
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1/19/2016  6:55 PM
The new cap may dictate that guys like Conley and Batum get Melo money, but that doesn't mean Phil Jackson would believe in that process. Phil made some bargains last summer with good reason. I think he's more of the Spurs type of thinking where you build a team based on having many good players and not overpaying. The Knicks took an entire year to tank, get a top lottery pick who has turned out to be great, added a core player in Lopez on a good reasonable contract (54/4) and kept their capspace for 2016 and 2017. If they can't get a really good deal, I don't see Phil signing someone to Melo money who is not even close to being a perennial all-star. There are no quick fixes. Think longterm guys. Step by step.
wargames
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1/19/2016  9:15 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/19/2016  11:33 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:The new cap may dictate that guys like Conley and Batum get Melo money, but that doesn't mean Phil Jackson would believe in that process. Phil made some bargains last summer with good reason. I think he's more of the Spurs type of thinking where you build a team based on having many good players and not overpaying. The Knicks took an entire year to tank, get a top lottery pick who has turned out to be great, added a core player in Lopez on a good reasonable contract (54/4) and kept their capspace for 2016 and 2017. If they can't get a really good deal, I don't see Phil signing someone to Melo money who is not even close to being a perennial all-star. There are no quick fixes. Think longterm guys. Step by step.

I could see a situation where guys like AA, D-Will, and Lance might re-sign but for another 2 year player option with a fair increase deal to help the team out. Its been a trend that guys who play for the knicks leave a little money on the table to help the FO build a better overall team. From Melo, to AA, to Robin, to Lance, to D-will even. All had slightly better offers or just left some money to help overall. It sort of builds a level of expectation for themselves and the rest of the team since they left money there for the better good. You see similar situations in SA and GSW where guys took less to help the TEAM and play harder because of it. Its a fundamental culture shift and hopefully FA players respect that.

In the end I don't think Phil is going to offer Batum or Conley (or Bazemore) the most they can get. He'll probably offer them slightly less and the chance to play in NY with Melo and KP, and the knowledge the roster they join will have more money to improve in 2017 with another significant piece.

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crzymdups
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1/20/2016  10:12 AM
I thought this was a good summary of the Mike Conley in 2016 vs pray for Westbrook or CP3 in 2017 argument. I'd still vote Conley, I think. Though I think Westbrook is actually somewhat realistic, like maybe a 10% chance.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/porzingis-alters-knicks-free-agency-focus/

Back in June of 2015, before New York Knicks fans were forced to come to terms with a harsh reality, hopes in New York were sky high. For the first time in a very long time, the Knicks were well under the salary cap, allowing them to be major players in the 2015 free agency bonanza.

Coming off their worst season in franchise history, New Yorkers were optimistically hoping that nearly $30 million in cap space would enable the Knicks to rapidly rebuild their crumbling franchise. With Phil Jackson doing the recruiting, and the allure of the bright lights of Broadway beckoning, surely New York would be extremely appealing to the the majority of top-tier free agents, right?

Wrong.

The Knicks’ most pressing need heading into last offseason was adding a quality big man to a dangerously depleted frontline. Fortunately for New York, there was a plethora of top-tier, unrestricted power forwards and centers up for grabs. Yet, the cream of the crop never seriously considered taking the Knicks’ money. The best center available, Marc Gasol, re-signed with the Memphis Grizzlies without even meeting with Jackson. LaMarcus Aldridge landed with the San Antonio Spurs. Kevin Love re-upped with the Cleveland Cavaliers. DeAndre Jordan (after a brief detour to Dallas) ended up back with the Los Angeles Clippers. Paul Millsap decided to stay with the Atlanta Hawks. Greg Monroe, whom many had prognosticated was highly likely to sign with the Knicks, ended up choosing the Milwaukee Bucks instead.

The Knicks eventually rounded out their frontcourt by adding Robin Lopez (four-year, $54 million contract), Kyle O’Quinn (four-year, $16 million contract), Derrick Williams (two-year, $10 million contract) and Kevin Seraphin (one-year, $2.8 million contract). O’Quinn has been a bit of disappointment thus far. Williams has been a relatively pleasant surprise, exceeding expectations of many who thought New York overpaid. Seraphin has been buried on the bench. Lopez, to the surprise of nobody, has been impressively solid.

Still, Knicks fans were disheartened by the fact that Jackson was forced to “settle” for a solid veteran such as Lopez after the elite stars rejected the Knicks advances, seemingly without even giving the Knicks so much as a second thought.

It was a harsh way to learn a valuable lesson.

At one point in the not so distant past, having the good fortunate of being located in a city such as New York often tilted the playing field when it came to attracting superstars. Nowadays, simply playing in a major market is no longer enough to lure in the most sought after targets. Knicks and Lakers fans can attest to this proven fact. In this new, flattened world we live in, players know they don’t need to live in a major metropolitan hub in order to become internationally famous and land incredibly lucrative endorsement deals.

Desirable free agents in today’s NBA (Love, Aldridge, Monroe and David West being the latest examples) often end up choosing their new team in large part based on which organization has the most attractive foundation in place, thus giving them the greatest chance to win big.

The Knicks, coming off a season in which they were arguably the worst team in the entire league, were anything but alluring.

The good news for Knicks fans is that (due to the enormous pending spike in the salary cap) Jackson and company will once again have cap space to spend this summer. Depending on whether current Knicks Derrick Williams and Arron Afflalo decide to opt out of their current current contracts, New York will be looking at somewhere between approximately $20 million and $30 million to spend on free agents.

Still, based on the somber situation New York found itself in last July, Knicks fans should anticipate another discouraging and anticlimactic offseason, right?

Wrong.

Things have changed in NYC. The future of the Knicks has been altered dramatically, in large part because of one person.

The arrival and emergence of Kristaps Porzingis has resulted in a monumental directional shift in the present and future of the organization.

Knicks executives no longer have to rely on futilely attempting to sell players solely on the virtues of living in New York City and playing in the “World’s Most Famous Arena.” Future free agents will now be enticed to consider the Knicks because they would then be able to play alongside the world’s most famous and uniquely talented 7’3 forward/center.

We know about the consternation that consumed New York once the Knicks lost the draft lottery last May and dropped to fourth overall, which meant they would lose out on the opportunity to draft one of the only three “sure-fire” future stars available in the 2015 draft (Karl-Anthony Towns, D’Angelo Russell and Jahlil Okafor). We know all too well about the boos that greeted Porzingis after Commissioner Adam Silver called his name. Yet this pessimistic prologue only makes Porzingis’ rapid rise to fan-favorite status all the more remarkable.

To say that the rookie big man has simply exceeded expectations is obviously an understatement. Porzingis hasn’t just been good, or “good for a rookie.” Not only do his teammates sing his praises on a daily basis, but rival coaches, players and executives across the country rave about the kid at each stop the Knicks make on the road.

Porzingis currently ranks third among all rookies in points (13.9), second in rebounds (8.0), first in blocks (2.0), first in free-throw percentage (86 percent) and second in double-doubles (15).

His versatile skill set is remarkably unique, even in a league chock full of freakish athletes. Consider this: There is currently only one player in the league this season who has blocked more than 80 shots and knocked down more than 40 three-pointers. That player is Kristaps Porzingis.

There are plenty of other extraordinary stats that could be used to highlight his early-season success; however, it’s not simply the mind-boggling numbers that stand out when discussing Porzingis. It could be argued that the most amazing aspect of his first three months as an NBA player is the way he’s handled the sudden flood of fame and adulation. Considering he’s a 20-year-old kid from Latvia, it’s almost inconceivable how well he’s dealt with the crush from local and national media alike. Somehow, he carries himself with incredible confidence on the court, yet remains remarkably humble once he steps off the floor.

And he’s only getting better, and bigger. Both his game and his frame are still growing.

The scary reality is that if Porzingis was playing this well two years from now, when he was just 22 years old, he’d still be considered way ahead of schedule. The phrase “the sky’s the limit” is an overused cliche, but in this case it actually rings true. His upside is not simply All-Star level, it’s All-NBA level.

And, tangentially, because of Porzingis, the Knicks’ future is brighter than it’s been in a very, very long time.

MeloKP1Playing alongside one of the most intriguing young big men to come into the league in some time will surely change the way future free agents view the Knicks. He’s a big man who can stretch the floor and create space, finish alley-oops in traffic and erase defensive mistakes at the basket. That’s the kind of individual other great players want to run with.

Furthermore, Carmelo Anthony, who has embraced Porzingis as a “little brother,” is enjoying a renaissance and is currently playing some of the best, most unselfish, well-rounded basketball of his career. Joining the tag-team of Porzingis and Anthony will be an enticing proposition.

The Knicks’ biggest need heading into the 2016 offseason will be upgrading the point guard position. Jose Calderon, while providing valuable veteran leadership, is simply not a starting-caliber NBA point guard. Although Calderon is still relatively effective on the offensive end, he is an absolute sieve defensively. Rookie Jerian Grant has shown flashes here and there, but he’s no where near consistent enough to be relied on as the undisputed point guard of the present or future.

In today’s NBA, having a top-level point guard who can break down defenses by penetrating into the paint to score and creating opportunities for others – as well as being able to defend other quality point guards – is imperative.

If the Knicks are able to add an elite point guard to their current nucleus, they would have a legit chance to push into the postseason and make some noise in the Eastern Conference.

The best point guard on the market in 2016 will be Mike Conley. Currently 28 years old, Conley has spent his entire career with the Grizzlies. He doesn’t get much national attention, likely because he flies under the radar down in Memphis, but he’s widely considered one of the more underrated floor generals in the NBA. He posted his best statistical season in 2013-14, when he finished the year as one of just six players to average at least 17 points and six assists while shooting at least 45 percent from the floor (the other five players in that club were Steph Curry, Chris Paul, LeBron James, Isaiah Thomas and James Harden). And despite a nagging foot injury, Conley has been remarkably durable throughout his career, playing in at least 85 percent of the Grizzlies’ games in each of the last six seasons. It is also important to note that Conley has been a winner. He’s captained a Memphis team that has won at least 50 games in three straight seasons.

When Conley officially becomes an unrestricted free agent on July 1, it’s safe to assume the Knicks will have interest. Conley will seek max or at least near-max money, and considering the shifting financial landscape of the NBA (so many teams with excessive cap space and many others needing to spend money to hit the rising salary floor), he’ll get it from someone. From a Knicks perspective, he seems to check all the boxes: a savvy point guard who is both efficient offensively and solid defensively. He has posted a PER north of 18 in four straight seasons. In contrast, the Knicks have had only one point guard with a PER greater than 18 in the last 25 years (Stephon Marbury).

However, here’s where things get interesting.

If the Knicks fork over $90+ million to Conley this summer, they are obviously making a long-term commitment. This is important not only because of the financial investment it entails, but also opportunity cost. It would mean the Knicks wouldn’t be able to shop for a point guard the following summer, when arguably the three best point guards in the NBA will likely all hit the free agent market at the same time.

Russell Westbrook’s contract expires following the 2016-17 season. Ditto for Steph Curry. Chris Paul has a player option in his contract that will allow him to become an unrestricted free agent on July 1, 2017, as well.

Obviously, the odds of landing any of those three superstars are low. However, unlike last summer, the Knicks are now holding an ace of their own and will be able to ante up at the big boy table.

Would the uber-talented (yet temperamental) Westbrook contemplate re-locating to NYC? Considering he’s developed his own major clothing line, would he prefer to live and play so close to the 5th Avenue and the Fashion District in Manhattan?

It would certainly be surprising, if not shocking, to see Curry leave a great situation in Golden State to move across the country, but obviously a lot can change over the next 16 months.

Paul would seem to be the most realistic target. It’s common knowledge that he’s very good friends with Anthony. At Carmelo’s wedding in 2010, CP3 toasted to them eventually uniting as teammates.

However, would a 33-year-old Chris Paul be a major upgrade over a 30-year-old Mike Conley?

There is one other All-Star-caliber point guard likely to hit free agency in 2017. Toronto’s Kyle Lowry also has a player option to become a free agent as well. He would be another interesting option to consider at that point.

The summer of 2017 obviously seems like the distant future right now, but the decisions made this summer will have a direct impact on what New York can do going forward.

Furthermore, it’s unknown if Conley would be willing to even entertain signing with the Knicks. However, it’s obviously not just Conley or bust for New York in the summer of 2016. There are a handful of other point guard options (Rajon Rondo, Brandon Jennings and the restricted Jordan Clarkson to name just a few). And of course the Knicks are not obligated to use the lion’s share of their cap space on a playmaker, especially since Jose Calderon has another year at over $7 million left on his contract.

Still, at some point Jackson and Steve Mills will have to decide what direction they want to take the franchise. What will be their primary focus? Is the goal to maximize Anthony’s dwindling prime? That would mean adopting a win-now approach – zeroing in on players who complement ‘Melo’s game in an attempt to build a team that gives them the best chance of winning next season, even at the possible detriment of the long-term salary cap situation.

Or will Phil and company come to the conclusion that the best chance the Knicks have to eventually become a legitimate contender (as opposed to merely a playoff participant) several years in the future and focus on that? Will they build with several years down the road in mind, when Porzingis eventually inherits the responsibility of being the face of the franchise and the team’s best and most important player? If the Knicks embrace that philosophy, it may necessitate sacrificing in the short-term, in order to build the best possible foundation around Porzingis, which ideally would result in sustained, long-term success.

Or, will the Knicks attempt to somehow find a middle road and try to blend both approaches?

These are important questions Phil Jackson is going to have to answer sooner rather than later.

If Conley is interested, do they make a full-court press? Does New York use all of their cap space in 2016 to round out their roster with players who provide immediate bang for their buck? Or, do the Knicks get greedy and take a risk, holding out hope they can land a franchise-changing point guard the following summer?

Prior to the arrival and emergence of Porzingis, it would have been preposterous to say that New York had even an outside shot at signing a superstar such as Russell Westbrook, Stephen Curry or Chris Paul via free agency. But the Knicks no longer have to rely on the bright lights of Broadway and the Big City as their major selling point. Kristaps Porzingis is now the beacon that will hopefully attracts other stars into New York’s orbit.

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newyorker4ever
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1/20/2016  10:44 AM
martin wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:
martin wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:
magicTs wrote:Batum and an elite PG alongside KP and Melo would be fantastic. We would be a huge threat in the East.

In theory, that PG could be Grant with a jumper. All we need from Grant is to improve his recognition of how to run the Triangle and mainly to improve his 3 point shot. The summer league and working on it all summer would go a long way. He has all the skills to attack the basket, to defend, to be a point guard. He needs the other stuff, to be a starter for us.

I'm more in line with getting players on good contracts - best bang for your buck than paying a guy superstar money when he isn't worth it. You look at us with guys like Afflalo, Calderon, Derrick Williams - all have been solid. They're being paid 4-8 million each and bringing it and worth the value. Lopez is also worth the contract he got. Easily movable via trade if we want to make one, and also not impacted the capspace for 2016 or 2017.

You sign a guy for 20-22 million, which is Carmelo money, and he doesn't fit in great or has a decline in his play (very possible with some of these free agents) you're screwed in many ways. That has been the Knicks mantra for years. It wouldn't shock me if Phil Jackson goes in with a mindset of getting a bargain from the players not named DeRozan, otherwise settling for quality role players that want to come in for reasonable 2-3 year deals.

I think Phil will want to max out Durant if he can. After that, I'll be surprised if he thinks DeRozan is worth 25 million a year. Batum is worth 20 million a year. Conley worth 20 million a year. That's basically close to Melo money. I think he makes a play for Durant, and after does what he did this past offseason. Maybe go after guys like Lance Stephenson, Mario Chalmers and possibly Parsons. We're a .500 caliber team as is, with improvement from Porzingis/Grant next year we're likely a 45-48 win team. Add some veteran solid free agents, we're as good as any team in the East not having Lebron James.

Durant is a complete pipe dream. He's not going anywhere.

20-22 Million was Carmelo money when the cap was $60M. The cap is going to be $90M this summer and $109M the summer after that. 20-22 Million is now Mike Conley, Nic Batum money. That's the reality.

If both AA and DW opt out of their final year which is expected and we re-sign both to more money which both will want then you can say bye bye to getting either Conley or Batum or any max guy.

Seriously dude, this is the 3rd time. The Knicks would NEVER EVER EVER EVER re-sign AA and DW to bigger deals if they could sign Conely, Batum or a Max guys. That's just a bad assumption on your part.

Why do you keep posting this hypothetical? It doesn't make sense and is very ass backwards. You can do that with any team.

If my team signs all of it's role players to bigger deals thus making it such that their cap is really small, oh no, they could miss out on signing a really talented player. yay.

Why do you keep posting that?

The odd and funny thing here is that you are also ASSUMING that they won't re-sign DW and AA to new contracts and you have ZERO way of proving they would so you should really just stop ASSUMING things cause it's not a good look for you.

The premise of your post is that the Knicks won't have enough room to sign Conley, Batum, Max guy if they resign DW, AA to bigger contracts. That's the assumption. Your assumption. You keep posting that as if it were meaningful and there is no other choice.

There is a choice: don't do it. Sign the other guys. The Knicks got $19M in cap space. Can get a bit more if they are creative.

You are creating a straw man scenario and then complaining that the knicks may do it and then lose out on something else. Well duh.

Hahahaha this is funny and really a debate that i see being pretty stupid to even keep up so i'm gonna tap out and just keep ASSUMING all i want to even though that's not quite what i'm doing. Ummmmmmm buh bye.

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1/20/2016  10:48 AM
crzymdups wrote:I thought this was a good summary of the Mike Conley in 2016 vs pray for Westbrook or CP3 in 2017 argument. I'd still vote Conley, I think. Though I think Westbrook is actually somewhat realistic, like maybe a 10% chance.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/porzingis-alters-knicks-free-agency-focus/

Back in June of 2015, before New York Knicks fans were forced to come to terms with a harsh reality, hopes in New York were sky high. For the first time in a very long time, the Knicks were well under the salary cap, allowing them to be major players in the 2015 free agency bonanza.

Coming off their worst season in franchise history, New Yorkers were optimistically hoping that nearly $30 million in cap space would enable the Knicks to rapidly rebuild their crumbling franchise. With Phil Jackson doing the recruiting, and the allure of the bright lights of Broadway beckoning, surely New York would be extremely appealing to the the majority of top-tier free agents, right?

Wrong.

The Knicks’ most pressing need heading into last offseason was adding a quality big man to a dangerously depleted frontline. Fortunately for New York, there was a plethora of top-tier, unrestricted power forwards and centers up for grabs. Yet, the cream of the crop never seriously considered taking the Knicks’ money. The best center available, Marc Gasol, re-signed with the Memphis Grizzlies without even meeting with Jackson. LaMarcus Aldridge landed with the San Antonio Spurs. Kevin Love re-upped with the Cleveland Cavaliers. DeAndre Jordan (after a brief detour to Dallas) ended up back with the Los Angeles Clippers. Paul Millsap decided to stay with the Atlanta Hawks. Greg Monroe, whom many had prognosticated was highly likely to sign with the Knicks, ended up choosing the Milwaukee Bucks instead.

The Knicks eventually rounded out their frontcourt by adding Robin Lopez (four-year, $54 million contract), Kyle O’Quinn (four-year, $16 million contract), Derrick Williams (two-year, $10 million contract) and Kevin Seraphin (one-year, $2.8 million contract). O’Quinn has been a bit of disappointment thus far. Williams has been a relatively pleasant surprise, exceeding expectations of many who thought New York overpaid. Seraphin has been buried on the bench. Lopez, to the surprise of nobody, has been impressively solid.

Still, Knicks fans were disheartened by the fact that Jackson was forced to “settle” for a solid veteran such as Lopez after the elite stars rejected the Knicks advances, seemingly without even giving the Knicks so much as a second thought.

It was a harsh way to learn a valuable lesson.

At one point in the not so distant past, having the good fortunate of being located in a city such as New York often tilted the playing field when it came to attracting superstars. Nowadays, simply playing in a major market is no longer enough to lure in the most sought after targets. Knicks and Lakers fans can attest to this proven fact. In this new, flattened world we live in, players know they don’t need to live in a major metropolitan hub in order to become internationally famous and land incredibly lucrative endorsement deals.

Desirable free agents in today’s NBA (Love, Aldridge, Monroe and David West being the latest examples) often end up choosing their new team in large part based on which organization has the most attractive foundation in place, thus giving them the greatest chance to win big.

The Knicks, coming off a season in which they were arguably the worst team in the entire league, were anything but alluring.

The good news for Knicks fans is that (due to the enormous pending spike in the salary cap) Jackson and company will once again have cap space to spend this summer. Depending on whether current Knicks Derrick Williams and Arron Afflalo decide to opt out of their current current contracts, New York will be looking at somewhere between approximately $20 million and $30 million to spend on free agents.

Still, based on the somber situation New York found itself in last July, Knicks fans should anticipate another discouraging and anticlimactic offseason, right?

Wrong.

Things have changed in NYC. The future of the Knicks has been altered dramatically, in large part because of one person.

The arrival and emergence of Kristaps Porzingis has resulted in a monumental directional shift in the present and future of the organization.

Knicks executives no longer have to rely on futilely attempting to sell players solely on the virtues of living in New York City and playing in the “World’s Most Famous Arena.” Future free agents will now be enticed to consider the Knicks because they would then be able to play alongside the world’s most famous and uniquely talented 7’3 forward/center.

We know about the consternation that consumed New York once the Knicks lost the draft lottery last May and dropped to fourth overall, which meant they would lose out on the opportunity to draft one of the only three “sure-fire” future stars available in the 2015 draft (Karl-Anthony Towns, D’Angelo Russell and Jahlil Okafor). We know all too well about the boos that greeted Porzingis after Commissioner Adam Silver called his name. Yet this pessimistic prologue only makes Porzingis’ rapid rise to fan-favorite status all the more remarkable.

To say that the rookie big man has simply exceeded expectations is obviously an understatement. Porzingis hasn’t just been good, or “good for a rookie.” Not only do his teammates sing his praises on a daily basis, but rival coaches, players and executives across the country rave about the kid at each stop the Knicks make on the road.

Porzingis currently ranks third among all rookies in points (13.9), second in rebounds (8.0), first in blocks (2.0), first in free-throw percentage (86 percent) and second in double-doubles (15).

His versatile skill set is remarkably unique, even in a league chock full of freakish athletes. Consider this: There is currently only one player in the league this season who has blocked more than 80 shots and knocked down more than 40 three-pointers. That player is Kristaps Porzingis.

There are plenty of other extraordinary stats that could be used to highlight his early-season success; however, it’s not simply the mind-boggling numbers that stand out when discussing Porzingis. It could be argued that the most amazing aspect of his first three months as an NBA player is the way he’s handled the sudden flood of fame and adulation. Considering he’s a 20-year-old kid from Latvia, it’s almost inconceivable how well he’s dealt with the crush from local and national media alike. Somehow, he carries himself with incredible confidence on the court, yet remains remarkably humble once he steps off the floor.

And he’s only getting better, and bigger. Both his game and his frame are still growing.

The scary reality is that if Porzingis was playing this well two years from now, when he was just 22 years old, he’d still be considered way ahead of schedule. The phrase “the sky’s the limit” is an overused cliche, but in this case it actually rings true. His upside is not simply All-Star level, it’s All-NBA level.

And, tangentially, because of Porzingis, the Knicks’ future is brighter than it’s been in a very, very long time.

MeloKP1Playing alongside one of the most intriguing young big men to come into the league in some time will surely change the way future free agents view the Knicks. He’s a big man who can stretch the floor and create space, finish alley-oops in traffic and erase defensive mistakes at the basket. That’s the kind of individual other great players want to run with.

Furthermore, Carmelo Anthony, who has embraced Porzingis as a “little brother,” is enjoying a renaissance and is currently playing some of the best, most unselfish, well-rounded basketball of his career. Joining the tag-team of Porzingis and Anthony will be an enticing proposition.

The Knicks’ biggest need heading into the 2016 offseason will be upgrading the point guard position. Jose Calderon, while providing valuable veteran leadership, is simply not a starting-caliber NBA point guard. Although Calderon is still relatively effective on the offensive end, he is an absolute sieve defensively. Rookie Jerian Grant has shown flashes here and there, but he’s no where near consistent enough to be relied on as the undisputed point guard of the present or future.

In today’s NBA, having a top-level point guard who can break down defenses by penetrating into the paint to score and creating opportunities for others – as well as being able to defend other quality point guards – is imperative.

If the Knicks are able to add an elite point guard to their current nucleus, they would have a legit chance to push into the postseason and make some noise in the Eastern Conference.

The best point guard on the market in 2016 will be Mike Conley. Currently 28 years old, Conley has spent his entire career with the Grizzlies. He doesn’t get much national attention, likely because he flies under the radar down in Memphis, but he’s widely considered one of the more underrated floor generals in the NBA. He posted his best statistical season in 2013-14, when he finished the year as one of just six players to average at least 17 points and six assists while shooting at least 45 percent from the floor (the other five players in that club were Steph Curry, Chris Paul, LeBron James, Isaiah Thomas and James Harden). And despite a nagging foot injury, Conley has been remarkably durable throughout his career, playing in at least 85 percent of the Grizzlies’ games in each of the last six seasons. It is also important to note that Conley has been a winner. He’s captained a Memphis team that has won at least 50 games in three straight seasons.

When Conley officially becomes an unrestricted free agent on July 1, it’s safe to assume the Knicks will have interest. Conley will seek max or at least near-max money, and considering the shifting financial landscape of the NBA (so many teams with excessive cap space and many others needing to spend money to hit the rising salary floor), he’ll get it from someone. From a Knicks perspective, he seems to check all the boxes: a savvy point guard who is both efficient offensively and solid defensively. He has posted a PER north of 18 in four straight seasons. In contrast, the Knicks have had only one point guard with a PER greater than 18 in the last 25 years (Stephon Marbury).

However, here’s where things get interesting.

If the Knicks fork over $90+ million to Conley this summer, they are obviously making a long-term commitment. This is important not only because of the financial investment it entails, but also opportunity cost. It would mean the Knicks wouldn’t be able to shop for a point guard the following summer, when arguably the three best point guards in the NBA will likely all hit the free agent market at the same time.

Russell Westbrook’s contract expires following the 2016-17 season. Ditto for Steph Curry. Chris Paul has a player option in his contract that will allow him to become an unrestricted free agent on July 1, 2017, as well.

Obviously, the odds of landing any of those three superstars are low. However, unlike last summer, the Knicks are now holding an ace of their own and will be able to ante up at the big boy table.

Would the uber-talented (yet temperamental) Westbrook contemplate re-locating to NYC? Considering he’s developed his own major clothing line, would he prefer to live and play so close to the 5th Avenue and the Fashion District in Manhattan?

It would certainly be surprising, if not shocking, to see Curry leave a great situation in Golden State to move across the country, but obviously a lot can change over the next 16 months.

Paul would seem to be the most realistic target. It’s common knowledge that he’s very good friends with Anthony. At Carmelo’s wedding in 2010, CP3 toasted to them eventually uniting as teammates.

However, would a 33-year-old Chris Paul be a major upgrade over a 30-year-old Mike Conley?

There is one other All-Star-caliber point guard likely to hit free agency in 2017. Toronto’s Kyle Lowry also has a player option to become a free agent as well. He would be another interesting option to consider at that point.

The summer of 2017 obviously seems like the distant future right now, but the decisions made this summer will have a direct impact on what New York can do going forward.

Furthermore, it’s unknown if Conley would be willing to even entertain signing with the Knicks. However, it’s obviously not just Conley or bust for New York in the summer of 2016. There are a handful of other point guard options (Rajon Rondo, Brandon Jennings and the restricted Jordan Clarkson to name just a few). And of course the Knicks are not obligated to use the lion’s share of their cap space on a playmaker, especially since Jose Calderon has another year at over $7 million left on his contract.

Still, at some point Jackson and Steve Mills will have to decide what direction they want to take the franchise. What will be their primary focus? Is the goal to maximize Anthony’s dwindling prime? That would mean adopting a win-now approach – zeroing in on players who complement ‘Melo’s game in an attempt to build a team that gives them the best chance of winning next season, even at the possible detriment of the long-term salary cap situation.

Or will Phil and company come to the conclusion that the best chance the Knicks have to eventually become a legitimate contender (as opposed to merely a playoff participant) several years in the future and focus on that? Will they build with several years down the road in mind, when Porzingis eventually inherits the responsibility of being the face of the franchise and the team’s best and most important player? If the Knicks embrace that philosophy, it may necessitate sacrificing in the short-term, in order to build the best possible foundation around Porzingis, which ideally would result in sustained, long-term success.

Or, will the Knicks attempt to somehow find a middle road and try to blend both approaches?

These are important questions Phil Jackson is going to have to answer sooner rather than later.

If Conley is interested, do they make a full-court press? Does New York use all of their cap space in 2016 to round out their roster with players who provide immediate bang for their buck? Or, do the Knicks get greedy and take a risk, holding out hope they can land a franchise-changing point guard the following summer?

Prior to the arrival and emergence of Porzingis, it would have been preposterous to say that New York had even an outside shot at signing a superstar such as Russell Westbrook, Stephen Curry or Chris Paul via free agency. But the Knicks no longer have to rely on the bright lights of Broadway and the Big City as their major selling point. Kristaps Porzingis is now the beacon that will hopefully attracts other stars into New York’s orbit.

This is a great article and i'm glad it mentioned the Knicks most realistic option in 2017 being Chris Paul, something i started a thread about a couple weeks ago. Obviously he will be 32/33 at that time, but i still think he will be very, very interested in coming to NY. KP should help prolong Melo and CP3's careers and they would have a couple year window to really do some damage. Still wishful thinking, but i really don't see why Paul would want to remain in LA after next year. He has very little chance of getting passed the 2nd round in his career. That being said, if the opportunity to grab Conley is there this summer, i definitely do that.

fishmike
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1/20/2016  10:53 AM
crzy good article... nicely frames the tough questions. The only thing I am confident in is that Phil wont make the wrong choice. The Westbrook thing with his clothing line is interesting. To me there is so much time and most of it revolves around Grant's development. I know he's working hard. I am confident in his talent. He's had an up and down season for sure... he's a rookie PG in the NBA, just had a baby, has been pretty inconsistent so far but is also showing to have a cool head and capable of pressure and playing the game at this level.

We have some depth in the pipeline upfront with Willie in Spain and the Jordan Bachynski. Both are the big skilled type of bigs that will look really good next to KP, so its all about improving the backcourt. Time will tell.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
newyorker4ever
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1/20/2016  10:58 AM
crzymdups wrote:I thought this was a good summary of the Mike Conley in 2016 vs pray for Westbrook or CP3 in 2017 argument. I'd still vote Conley, I think. Though I think Westbrook is actually somewhat realistic, like maybe a 10% chance.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/porzingis-alters-knicks-free-agency-focus/

Back in June of 2015, before New York Knicks fans were forced to come to terms with a harsh reality, hopes in New York were sky high. For the first time in a very long time, the Knicks were well under the salary cap, allowing them to be major players in the 2015 free agency bonanza.

Coming off their worst season in franchise history, New Yorkers were optimistically hoping that nearly $30 million in cap space would enable the Knicks to rapidly rebuild their crumbling franchise. With Phil Jackson doing the recruiting, and the allure of the bright lights of Broadway beckoning, surely New York would be extremely appealing to the the majority of top-tier free agents, right?

Wrong.

The Knicks’ most pressing need heading into last offseason was adding a quality big man to a dangerously depleted frontline. Fortunately for New York, there was a plethora of top-tier, unrestricted power forwards and centers up for grabs. Yet, the cream of the crop never seriously considered taking the Knicks’ money. The best center available, Marc Gasol, re-signed with the Memphis Grizzlies without even meeting with Jackson. LaMarcus Aldridge landed with the San Antonio Spurs. Kevin Love re-upped with the Cleveland Cavaliers. DeAndre Jordan (after a brief detour to Dallas) ended up back with the Los Angeles Clippers. Paul Millsap decided to stay with the Atlanta Hawks. Greg Monroe, whom many had prognosticated was highly likely to sign with the Knicks, ended up choosing the Milwaukee Bucks instead.

The Knicks eventually rounded out their frontcourt by adding Robin Lopez (four-year, $54 million contract), Kyle O’Quinn (four-year, $16 million contract), Derrick Williams (two-year, $10 million contract) and Kevin Seraphin (one-year, $2.8 million contract). O’Quinn has been a bit of disappointment thus far. Williams has been a relatively pleasant surprise, exceeding expectations of many who thought New York overpaid. Seraphin has been buried on the bench. Lopez, to the surprise of nobody, has been impressively solid.

Still, Knicks fans were disheartened by the fact that Jackson was forced to “settle” for a solid veteran such as Lopez after the elite stars rejected the Knicks advances, seemingly without even giving the Knicks so much as a second thought.

It was a harsh way to learn a valuable lesson.

At one point in the not so distant past, having the good fortunate of being located in a city such as New York often tilted the playing field when it came to attracting superstars. Nowadays, simply playing in a major market is no longer enough to lure in the most sought after targets. Knicks and Lakers fans can attest to this proven fact. In this new, flattened world we live in, players know they don’t need to live in a major metropolitan hub in order to become internationally famous and land incredibly lucrative endorsement deals.

Desirable free agents in today’s NBA (Love, Aldridge, Monroe and David West being the latest examples) often end up choosing their new team in large part based on which organization has the most attractive foundation in place, thus giving them the greatest chance to win big.

The Knicks, coming off a season in which they were arguably the worst team in the entire league, were anything but alluring.

The good news for Knicks fans is that (due to the enormous pending spike in the salary cap) Jackson and company will once again have cap space to spend this summer. Depending on whether current Knicks Derrick Williams and Arron Afflalo decide to opt out of their current current contracts, New York will be looking at somewhere between approximately $20 million and $30 million to spend on free agents.

Still, based on the somber situation New York found itself in last July, Knicks fans should anticipate another discouraging and anticlimactic offseason, right?

Wrong.

Things have changed in NYC. The future of the Knicks has been altered dramatically, in large part because of one person.

The arrival and emergence of Kristaps Porzingis has resulted in a monumental directional shift in the present and future of the organization.

Knicks executives no longer have to rely on futilely attempting to sell players solely on the virtues of living in New York City and playing in the “World’s Most Famous Arena.” Future free agents will now be enticed to consider the Knicks because they would then be able to play alongside the world’s most famous and uniquely talented 7’3 forward/center.

We know about the consternation that consumed New York once the Knicks lost the draft lottery last May and dropped to fourth overall, which meant they would lose out on the opportunity to draft one of the only three “sure-fire” future stars available in the 2015 draft (Karl-Anthony Towns, D’Angelo Russell and Jahlil Okafor). We know all too well about the boos that greeted Porzingis after Commissioner Adam Silver called his name. Yet this pessimistic prologue only makes Porzingis’ rapid rise to fan-favorite status all the more remarkable.

To say that the rookie big man has simply exceeded expectations is obviously an understatement. Porzingis hasn’t just been good, or “good for a rookie.” Not only do his teammates sing his praises on a daily basis, but rival coaches, players and executives across the country rave about the kid at each stop the Knicks make on the road.

Porzingis currently ranks third among all rookies in points (13.9), second in rebounds (8.0), first in blocks (2.0), first in free-throw percentage (86 percent) and second in double-doubles (15).

His versatile skill set is remarkably unique, even in a league chock full of freakish athletes. Consider this: There is currently only one player in the league this season who has blocked more than 80 shots and knocked down more than 40 three-pointers. That player is Kristaps Porzingis.

There are plenty of other extraordinary stats that could be used to highlight his early-season success; however, it’s not simply the mind-boggling numbers that stand out when discussing Porzingis. It could be argued that the most amazing aspect of his first three months as an NBA player is the way he’s handled the sudden flood of fame and adulation. Considering he’s a 20-year-old kid from Latvia, it’s almost inconceivable how well he’s dealt with the crush from local and national media alike. Somehow, he carries himself with incredible confidence on the court, yet remains remarkably humble once he steps off the floor.

And he’s only getting better, and bigger. Both his game and his frame are still growing.

The scary reality is that if Porzingis was playing this well two years from now, when he was just 22 years old, he’d still be considered way ahead of schedule. The phrase “the sky’s the limit” is an overused cliche, but in this case it actually rings true. His upside is not simply All-Star level, it’s All-NBA level.

And, tangentially, because of Porzingis, the Knicks’ future is brighter than it’s been in a very, very long time.

MeloKP1Playing alongside one of the most intriguing young big men to come into the league in some time will surely change the way future free agents view the Knicks. He’s a big man who can stretch the floor and create space, finish alley-oops in traffic and erase defensive mistakes at the basket. That’s the kind of individual other great players want to run with.

Furthermore, Carmelo Anthony, who has embraced Porzingis as a “little brother,” is enjoying a renaissance and is currently playing some of the best, most unselfish, well-rounded basketball of his career. Joining the tag-team of Porzingis and Anthony will be an enticing proposition.

The Knicks’ biggest need heading into the 2016 offseason will be upgrading the point guard position. Jose Calderon, while providing valuable veteran leadership, is simply not a starting-caliber NBA point guard. Although Calderon is still relatively effective on the offensive end, he is an absolute sieve defensively. Rookie Jerian Grant has shown flashes here and there, but he’s no where near consistent enough to be relied on as the undisputed point guard of the present or future.

In today’s NBA, having a top-level point guard who can break down defenses by penetrating into the paint to score and creating opportunities for others – as well as being able to defend other quality point guards – is imperative.

If the Knicks are able to add an elite point guard to their current nucleus, they would have a legit chance to push into the postseason and make some noise in the Eastern Conference.

The best point guard on the market in 2016 will be Mike Conley. Currently 28 years old, Conley has spent his entire career with the Grizzlies. He doesn’t get much national attention, likely because he flies under the radar down in Memphis, but he’s widely considered one of the more underrated floor generals in the NBA. He posted his best statistical season in 2013-14, when he finished the year as one of just six players to average at least 17 points and six assists while shooting at least 45 percent from the floor (the other five players in that club were Steph Curry, Chris Paul, LeBron James, Isaiah Thomas and James Harden). And despite a nagging foot injury, Conley has been remarkably durable throughout his career, playing in at least 85 percent of the Grizzlies’ games in each of the last six seasons. It is also important to note that Conley has been a winner. He’s captained a Memphis team that has won at least 50 games in three straight seasons.

When Conley officially becomes an unrestricted free agent on July 1, it’s safe to assume the Knicks will have interest. Conley will seek max or at least near-max money, and considering the shifting financial landscape of the NBA (so many teams with excessive cap space and many others needing to spend money to hit the rising salary floor), he’ll get it from someone. From a Knicks perspective, he seems to check all the boxes: a savvy point guard who is both efficient offensively and solid defensively. He has posted a PER north of 18 in four straight seasons. In contrast, the Knicks have had only one point guard with a PER greater than 18 in the last 25 years (Stephon Marbury).

However, here’s where things get interesting.

If the Knicks fork over $90+ million to Conley this summer, they are obviously making a long-term commitment. This is important not only because of the financial investment it entails, but also opportunity cost. It would mean the Knicks wouldn’t be able to shop for a point guard the following summer, when arguably the three best point guards in the NBA will likely all hit the free agent market at the same time.

Russell Westbrook’s contract expires following the 2016-17 season. Ditto for Steph Curry. Chris Paul has a player option in his contract that will allow him to become an unrestricted free agent on July 1, 2017, as well.

Obviously, the odds of landing any of those three superstars are low. However, unlike last summer, the Knicks are now holding an ace of their own and will be able to ante up at the big boy table.

Would the uber-talented (yet temperamental) Westbrook contemplate re-locating to NYC? Considering he’s developed his own major clothing line, would he prefer to live and play so close to the 5th Avenue and the Fashion District in Manhattan?

It would certainly be surprising, if not shocking, to see Curry leave a great situation in Golden State to move across the country, but obviously a lot can change over the next 16 months.

Paul would seem to be the most realistic target. It’s common knowledge that he’s very good friends with Anthony. At Carmelo’s wedding in 2010, CP3 toasted to them eventually uniting as teammates.

However, would a 33-year-old Chris Paul be a major upgrade over a 30-year-old Mike Conley?

There is one other All-Star-caliber point guard likely to hit free agency in 2017. Toronto’s Kyle Lowry also has a player option to become a free agent as well. He would be another interesting option to consider at that point.

The summer of 2017 obviously seems like the distant future right now, but the decisions made this summer will have a direct impact on what New York can do going forward.

Furthermore, it’s unknown if Conley would be willing to even entertain signing with the Knicks. However, it’s obviously not just Conley or bust for New York in the summer of 2016. There are a handful of other point guard options (Rajon Rondo, Brandon Jennings and the restricted Jordan Clarkson to name just a few). And of course the Knicks are not obligated to use the lion’s share of their cap space on a playmaker, especially since Jose Calderon has another year at over $7 million left on his contract.

Still, at some point Jackson and Steve Mills will have to decide what direction they want to take the franchise. What will be their primary focus? Is the goal to maximize Anthony’s dwindling prime? That would mean adopting a win-now approach – zeroing in on players who complement ‘Melo’s game in an attempt to build a team that gives them the best chance of winning next season, even at the possible detriment of the long-term salary cap situation.

Or will Phil and company come to the conclusion that the best chance the Knicks have to eventually become a legitimate contender (as opposed to merely a playoff participant) several years in the future and focus on that? Will they build with several years down the road in mind, when Porzingis eventually inherits the responsibility of being the face of the franchise and the team’s best and most important player? If the Knicks embrace that philosophy, it may necessitate sacrificing in the short-term, in order to build the best possible foundation around Porzingis, which ideally would result in sustained, long-term success.

Or, will the Knicks attempt to somehow find a middle road and try to blend both approaches?

These are important questions Phil Jackson is going to have to answer sooner rather than later.

If Conley is interested, do they make a full-court press? Does New York use all of their cap space in 2016 to round out their roster with players who provide immediate bang for their buck? Or, do the Knicks get greedy and take a risk, holding out hope they can land a franchise-changing point guard the following summer?

Prior to the arrival and emergence of Porzingis, it would have been preposterous to say that New York had even an outside shot at signing a superstar such as Russell Westbrook, Stephen Curry or Chris Paul via free agency. But the Knicks no longer have to rely on the bright lights of Broadway and the Big City as their major selling point. Kristaps Porzingis is now the beacon that will hopefully attracts other stars into New York’s orbit.


Yeah i read this article last night and the only way i could really see them waiting until the 2017 free agency is if C.Paul and Melo had a talk and Paul told him that he'd like to come play with him in New York cause him and Melo are such good friends that i think they'd have that talk and actually think they've already had that talk. So in my opinion if Phil doesn't make any big signings this off season that there's already a plan in place for 2017 and the only guy i see them signing to a max this off season is M.Conley.

How much does the cap go up after the 2016 season?? Isn't it going up another 20 million or close to it?? If it is then i guess what i just said might not be right cause they could still make a significant signing this off season and still be able to make another one in the following off season. Not sure what the cap raise is for the 2017 off season though??

Knickoftime
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1/20/2016  11:00 AM
To be fair, Jordan Bachynski is in the NBA pipeline. Knicks have no other hold on him other than a professional relationship. They'll have to be the first team to offer him an NBA deal for him to be in their pipeline.
fishmike
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1/20/2016  11:15 AM
Knickoftime wrote:To be fair, Jordan Bachynski is in the NBA pipeline. Knicks have no other hold on him other than a professional relationship. They'll have to be the first team to offer him an NBA deal for him to be in their pipeline.
fair indeed, but worth mentioning as that relationship is doing very well. Of course things can change and he would be buried on the bench right now anyway. However the reports from the D league and especially his direct quotes about the quality of the Knicks facility, coach and program are very encouraging
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crzymdups
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1/20/2016  11:16 AM
newyorker4ever wrote:Yeah i read this article last night and the only way i could really see them waiting until the 2017 free agency is if C.Paul and Melo had a talk and Paul told him that he'd like to come play with him in New York cause him and Melo are such good friends that i think they'd have that talk and actually think they've already had that talk. So in my opinion if Phil doesn't make any big signings this off season that there's already a plan in place for 2017 and the only guy i see them signing to a max this off season is M.Conley.

How much does the cap go up after the 2016 season?? Isn't it going up another 20 million or close to it?? If it is then i guess what i just said might not be right cause they could still make a significant signing this off season and still be able to make another one in the following off season. Not sure what the cap raise is for the 2017 off season though??

The numbers I saw were:

2015-6 cap (current season) - $67M (might've wound up more like $69)
2016-7 cap (this summer) - $89M
2017-8 cap (next summer) - $108M


¿ △ ?
crzymdups
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1/20/2016  11:20 AM
fishmike wrote:crzy good article... nicely frames the tough questions. The only thing I am confident in is that Phil wont make the wrong choice. The Westbrook thing with his clothing line is interesting. To me there is so much time and most of it revolves around Grant's development. I know he's working hard. I am confident in his talent. He's had an up and down season for sure... he's a rookie PG in the NBA, just had a baby, has been pretty inconsistent so far but is also showing to have a cool head and capable of pressure and playing the game at this level.

We have some depth in the pipeline upfront with Willie in Spain and the Jordan Bachynski. Both are the big skilled type of bigs that will look really good next to KP, so its all about improving the backcourt. Time will tell.

I think Westbrook is an interesting option.

But I wouldn't pass on Conley this summer for the mere chance of Westbrook a year later.

If anything, sign Conley and if Westbrook makes strong motions he wants to be a Knick - move Conley for a #1 draft pick somewhere to create cap space in summer of 2017.

I get why people want Batum, but I don't think Batum moves the needle as much as Conley. I would be ecstatic to add either - true upgrades. Those are both near all-star guys. And let's be honest - if the Knicks win 50+ games and those guys are playing well, they probably would be seen as all-stars.

But again, the major draw is KP and Dad Melo and Phil's culture.

¿ △ ?
Knickoftime
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1/20/2016  11:30 AM
crzymdups wrote:
But again, the major draw is KP and Dad Melo and Phil's culture.

Right, but we're only 1/2 way through the book on the Knicks offseason culture.

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1/20/2016  11:33 AM

If the Knicks can make the playoffs, I think you may see free agents flock here because there's so much parity in the East and because the Knicks arguably have one of the best young players in the entire Eastern conference and Dad Melo.
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fishmike
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1/20/2016  11:45 AM
crzymdups wrote:
If the Knicks can make the playoffs, I think you may see free agents flock here because there's so much parity in the East and because the Knicks arguably have one of the best young players in the entire Eastern conference and Dad Melo.
I am a buyer of this and we are seeing it at the D league level as well. I remember Phil specifically talking about making the whole organization a place were players of ALL levels could come and play and develop and you didnt need to be the main guy for that to happen. Sounded nice at the time but its starting to feel like that is tangible. The comments about the dleague setup and what the Knicks are providing for those guys is telling.

Time will tell but I am liking what I am seeing. Phil got some decent players to come in and play for this 17 win team. Lets see if he can lure the next level guys.

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1/20/2016  12:00 PM
fishmike wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
If the Knicks can make the playoffs, I think you may see free agents flock here because there's so much parity in the East and because the Knicks arguably have one of the best young players in the entire Eastern conference and Dad Melo.
I am a buyer of this and we are seeing it at the D league level as well. I remember Phil specifically talking about making the whole organization a place were players of ALL levels could come and play and develop and you didnt need to be the main guy for that to happen. Sounded nice at the time but its starting to feel like that is tangible. The comments about the dleague setup and what the Knicks are providing for those guys is telling.

Time will tell but I am liking what I am seeing. Phil got some decent players to come in and play for this 17 win team. Lets see if he can lure the next level guys.

Exactly. Last year Monroe chose the Bucks over the Knicks because he thought Bucks had a brighter future (phew! bullet dodged)... but next summer I think you might see guys look at the Knicks and say, you know what the Knicks future is brighter than the Grizzlies or Hornets.

Also, agreed about the D-League. I think it is notable that the Bucks just assigned one of their guys to our D-League squad to get some reps. It means other teams around the league are looking at the Westchester Knicks and say, "that's a good place to have my guy develop a little."

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LivingLegend
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1/20/2016  1:13 PM
crzymdups wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:Yeah i read this article last night and the only way i could really see them waiting until the 2017 free agency is if C.Paul and Melo had a talk and Paul told him that he'd like to come play with him in New York cause him and Melo are such good friends that i think they'd have that talk and actually think they've already had that talk. So in my opinion if Phil doesn't make any big signings this off season that there's already a plan in place for 2017 and the only guy i see them signing to a max this off season is M.Conley.

How much does the cap go up after the 2016 season?? Isn't it going up another 20 million or close to it?? If it is then i guess what i just said might not be right cause they could still make a significant signing this off season and still be able to make another one in the following off season. Not sure what the cap raise is for the 2017 off season though??

The numbers I saw were:

2015-6 cap (current season) - $67M (might've wound up more like $69)
2016-7 cap (this summer) - $89M
2017-8 cap (next summer) - $108M


OK - so using the $89M and assuming Jose/AA/D-Will all remain/opt in --- how much cash would we have to spend?

newyorker4ever
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1/20/2016  1:15 PM
crzymdups wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:Yeah i read this article last night and the only way i could really see them waiting until the 2017 free agency is if C.Paul and Melo had a talk and Paul told him that he'd like to come play with him in New York cause him and Melo are such good friends that i think they'd have that talk and actually think they've already had that talk. So in my opinion if Phil doesn't make any big signings this off season that there's already a plan in place for 2017 and the only guy i see them signing to a max this off season is M.Conley.

How much does the cap go up after the 2016 season?? Isn't it going up another 20 million or close to it?? If it is then i guess what i just said might not be right cause they could still make a significant signing this off season and still be able to make another one in the following off season. Not sure what the cap raise is for the 2017 off season though??

The numbers I saw were:

2015-6 cap (current season) - $67M (might've wound up more like $69)
2016-7 cap (this summer) - $89M
2017-8 cap (next summer) - $108M


Ok so it's going up right around another 20 million and we get the money from Calderon's contract being over if we don't somehow trade him before that. So we can spend at will this off season and still have another 27 mil or so in the 2017 off season. I'm not sure what other contracts will be coming off the books either so we might have more.

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1/20/2016  1:19 PM
crzymdups wrote:
fishmike wrote:crzy good article... nicely frames the tough questions. The only thing I am confident in is that Phil wont make the wrong choice. The Westbrook thing with his clothing line is interesting. To me there is so much time and most of it revolves around Grant's development. I know he's working hard. I am confident in his talent. He's had an up and down season for sure... he's a rookie PG in the NBA, just had a baby, has been pretty inconsistent so far but is also showing to have a cool head and capable of pressure and playing the game at this level.

We have some depth in the pipeline upfront with Willie in Spain and the Jordan Bachynski. Both are the big skilled type of bigs that will look really good next to KP, so its all about improving the backcourt. Time will tell.

I think Westbrook is an interesting option.

But I wouldn't pass on Conley this summer for the mere chance of Westbrook a year later.

If anything, sign Conley and if Westbrook makes strong motions he wants to be a Knick - move Conley for a #1 draft pick somewhere to create cap space in summer of 2017.

I get why people want Batum, but I don't think Batum moves the needle as much as Conley. I would be ecstatic to add either - true upgrades. Those are both near all-star guys. And let's be honest - if the Knicks win 50+ games and those guys are playing well, they probably would be seen as all-stars.

But again, the major draw is KP and Dad Melo and Phil's culture.

Not sure Westbrook would go for it but he could play SG as well as PG. He's definitely got the size for it. Could you imagine a lineup of:

PG--M.Conley
SG--R.Westbrook
SF--Melo
PF--KP
C--R.Lopez

Now that's a lineup that would win the east and a championship.

Knicks going after M.Conley in the off season.

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