mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:A center I think could work great with KP is Al Horford. ATl is struggling now but I doubt they will blow it up even if they start dropping lower. Anyway, Horford can take the pounding on D while be able to actually post up, pass, and step out. He is another methodical fundamental type big like Lopez but he is just a way better version.

Al is a FA this summer but the problem is that he is going to turn 30 and will command a $20m+ deal. That is a lot to give a player not on the same time table as KP. It would give the knicks a chance to compete now if KP improves and Melo can get/stay healthy. If the Knicks wanted to go this route I would shoot for the stars and try to get Teague too. Teague has one more year on his deal after the 15-16 season and if Horford bolts why not get something for Teague and give Schroeder the keys.

And whom are we giving up for Horford and Teague? Seraphin?

EnySpree wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:If you want a pg, you can go and get Jennings. Knicks have enough to get Noah and Jennings if the trades are kept simple.

Kristaps, Melo, Noah, Jennings, Affalo looks like an improved team. Jennings and Noah ate both expiring contracts too. So what you think now?

Why is jennings an upgrade, what has he done in his NBA career that REMOTELY makes him a winner, Leader, and a high character guy. You're sacrificing a lot of other attributes that's not on a stat sheet, for a guy whose best attribute is his athletic ability (not to mention he's coming off one the worse injuries to have)

You are looking at things on the surface, but you have to think a little deeper

If you want to dig deeper you will see the Knicks have no shot at any point guard that would be considered a flat out upgrade. Jennings has scored 50 points in a game. He's not a bum. He is better than Calderón and closer to competing with guys like Conley etc.

How do you know who they have a shot at getting?? I don't see how you could know if another team is trying to get rid of a player for any number of reasons or if a team likes a certain player or players we have and would want to make a trade with us. None of us would know that so how do you?? This probably sounds sarcastic but i'm serious.

Nalod wrote:Aronson is a patient owner. He understands the game and Riley is no dope. What is the plan?
The plan takes times to unfold. Dragic is adapting to Wade, or after 25 games is a failed experiement?
They have a ton of money as long as Wade does not get half of it. My take is he gets 3 years at around 50 mil. That's just under 17mil a year. Its not the per year, its the length.
THis is just my guess.

Yeah, Riley is a master at the cap. Anyone thinking they won't be able to afford guys is just nuts.

Would anyone really be surprised if he got Wade to agree to a 2yr $15M deal with an opt out and then take care of him next season?

I bet Riley not only keeps Whiteside and Wade, but they add another elite free agent. This is Riley. He's quite good at this. He's re-shaped that roster so many different times and re-loaded it using pretty much only the cap so many different times. He has $42M in cap space this summer and people are doubting he's going to be able to figure out how to keep two of his guys?

crzymdups wrote:

Nalod wrote:Aronson is a patient owner. He understands the game and Riley is no dope. What is the plan?
The plan takes times to unfold. Dragic is adapting to Wade, or after 25 games is a failed experiement?
They have a ton of money as long as Wade does not get half of it. My take is he gets 3 years at around 50 mil. That's just under 17mil a year. Its not the per year, its the length.
THis is just my guess.

Yeah, Riley is a master at the cap. Anyone thinking they won't be able to afford guys is just nuts.

Would anyone really be surprised if he got Wade to agree to a 2yr $15M deal with an opt out and then take care of him next season?

I bet Riley not only keeps Whiteside and Wade, but they add another elite free agent. This is Riley. He's quite good at this. He's re-shaped that roster so many different times and re-loaded it using pretty much only the cap so many different times. He has $42M in cap space this summer and people are doubting he's going to be able to figure out how to keep two of his guys?

it's just not mathematically possible unless some heavy colluding went on.

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Nalod wrote:Aronson is a patient owner. He understands the game and Riley is no dope. What is the plan?
The plan takes times to unfold. Dragic is adapting to Wade, or after 25 games is a failed experiement?
They have a ton of money as long as Wade does not get half of it. My take is he gets 3 years at around 50 mil. That's just under 17mil a year. Its not the per year, its the length.
THis is just my guess.

Yeah, Riley is a master at the cap. Anyone thinking they won't be able to afford guys is just nuts.

Would anyone really be surprised if he got Wade to agree to a 2yr $15M deal with an opt out and then take care of him next season?

I bet Riley not only keeps Whiteside and Wade, but they add another elite free agent. This is Riley. He's quite good at this. He's re-shaped that roster so many different times and re-loaded it using pretty much only the cap so many different times. He has $42M in cap space this summer and people are doubting he's going to be able to figure out how to keep two of his guys?

it's just not mathematically possible unless some heavy colluding went on.

People said it wasn't mathematically possible for them to sign Wade, Bron and Bosh. They signed the three of them for $42M. And still had $5M leftover to sign Mike Miller. People were outraged they had money leftover to sign Mike Miller.

crzymdups wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

Nalod wrote:Aronson is a patient owner. He understands the game and Riley is no dope. What is the plan?
The plan takes times to unfold. Dragic is adapting to Wade, or after 25 games is a failed experiement?
They have a ton of money as long as Wade does not get half of it. My take is he gets 3 years at around 50 mil. That's just under 17mil a year. Its not the per year, its the length.
THis is just my guess.

I GET why James/Bosh/Wade all too a discount to play together.

I don't get why Wade takes significantly less than Bosh at the end of the day.

Because Riley will tell Wade they'll take care of him forever because Wade is the face of the Heat.

Bosh is not the face of the Heat and he was strongly considering going to Houston last off-season, so the Heat had to pay up.

It's still "Wade county" in Miami - it's his team, he's the face of the franchise. Bosh is not that, so he NEEDED the money. Wade knows that he will be on the Heat payroll for the next ten years. He doesn't have to get all his money now.

I don't see the evidence to suggest Riley is this cap Svengali. Seems more reputation based in rival team anxiety than history.

Remember when Knicks fans feared the secret plan to replace James with Melo? Fans actually were anxious over that… "because Pay Riley".

You said it yourself, Bosh was seriously considering leaving and had to give him the max to keep him. No Jedi mind tricks to get Bosh to come back for a discount.

And I also don't know you want to make a roster with Bosh and Wade top-heavy and short change the bench.

Really? In 1996 he added Juwan Howard for one of the richest contracts in league history and was still able to add Tim Hardaway. He was able to add Jamal Mashburn, etc. In 2005 he was able to trade for Shaq and add pieces to build a title contender while holding onto Wade. In 2010 he signed Bosh, Wade, Lebron to reach 4 straight finals. In 2014-2015 he was able to conjur Whiteside out of thin air, trade for Dragic, add Luol Deng, draft Justice Winslow.

I'm not nervous about Riley - I never thought he would get Melo. I just respect the job he's done. It's pretty damn impressive how many times he's reshaped the Heat in Free Agency. I think he is arguably the best GM when it comes to using Free Agency to build a team.

The Big Three were a Big Three thing, not a Riley thing. I think they conjured that up together, not convinced by Riley. Doesnb't take a cap genus to divide a certain amount of cap space by 3.

The last things you mention further illustrate my point. Conjur Whiteside out of thin air? He got lucky?

And you equate Dragic-Deng-Winslow as some masterstroke.

He signed Bosh to a max, signed Deng, signed Wade and wound up in the lottery, which got him Winslow. How is signing three major free agents, trading for another starting PG and still winding up in the lottery a feather in his cap?

crzymdups wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:
The Big Three were a Big Three thing, not a Riley thing. I think they conjured that up together, not convinced by Riley. Doesnb't take a cap genus to divide a certain amount of cap space by 3.

Oh?

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/07/inside_the_decision_miamis_cou.html

It was a risk to mess with Wade as he headed for his own free agency, but Riley had been watching and doing research. He knew the three wanted to play together, and he knew he had a glamour destination to offer, a history of success and Wade. Riley crunched the numbers and thought he could get close so that he could sell it.

According to sources, Heat President Pat Riley made sure to reassure James that his close friends would be taken care of by the franchise, in much the same manner the Cavaliers had accomodated them for the last seven years. It might have been the final factor that convinced James to leave Cleveland.
He got close enough to pull off the major score. In addition to the weather and the city's attractions for young, rich athletes, Riley knew the lack of a state income tax in Florida could help him sell it.

Riley really put the plan into action last November. During a Cavs visit to Miami, Riley arranged a get together with Michael Jordan and James. Jordan, who was in town to do some Nike work with Wade, at the time did not own a majority of the Bobcats.

During the meeting, Riley talked to James about how more modern players should pay homage to Jordan. Riley always had led this effort, retiring Jordan's No. 23 in the rafters at AmericanAirlines Arena even though Jordan never played in Miami.

The Cavs knew about it, and while it seemed like it could be classic tampering, they decided not to make an issue of it -- mostly because the meeting technically wasn't about free agency.

That night, James and Wade staged another strong individual battle. But the Cavs won when the Heat didn't have enough down the stretch, a common problem with Miami's roster last season. After the game, and after seeing Jordan and Riley sitting together courtside, James made an emotional statement on the court that he was going to ditch jersey No. 23 out of respect to Jordan. In fact, he felt all players should stop wearing No. 23.

It was controversial and got headlines. Riley probably didn't care so much about the statement but how his conversation obviously influenced James. It likely gave Riley confidence that he could win James over by playing to his emotions when it came time for free agency. Riley became more dedicated than ever before to trying his grand plan of getting all three stars to South Florida, with poaching James being the grand prize.

Read everything above and below that section in the same piece. I'm not saying Riley didn't help it along and facilitate it, but it was clearly a fully-formed idea going years back and entirely dependent on the players engineering it.

Riley deserves credit for helping pull it together, but he didn't conceive of the idea or was the driving force. The Big Three themselves (along with CAA) were, which is what I wrote.

Riley, btw, seemed taken aback at James leaving.

crzymdups wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:Read everything above and below that section in the same piece. I'm not saying Riley didn't help it along and facilitate it, but it was clearly a fully-formed idea going years back and entirely dependent on the players engineering it.

Riley deserves credit for helping pull it together, but he didn't conceive of the idea or was the driving force. The Big Three themselves (along with CAA) were, which is what I wrote.

Riley, btw, seemed taken aback at James leaving.

I'm not saying Riley is a mystical genius, but I do think he convinced Lebron to go to Miami. He nailed the presentation, played on Lebron's desire to win rings and make history. He knew that angle about him - and he started that work early, as evidenced by that Jordan story. The Knicks and some other teams blew it by focusing on his "brand" and marketing crap. Lebron wanted to win chips - he already had the damn brand.

Riley has made some mistakes - but he's re-tooled the Heat a ton of times and done it well. From what I've seen, they look like the second best team in the East right now - maybe the best til the Cavs get Kyrie back this weekend. But they're definitely a top four team in the East, a season after losing Lebron.

I'm just saying he's very very good at being a GM and a lot of Knicks fans seem to have a chip on their shoulder about admitting it because he burned us so badly. I have no love for Riley, but I respect him.

And I can pretty much guarantee you he won't lose Whiteside and Wade this summer. The only way Whiteside leaves is if they maybe trade him for an upgrade like Howard or Cousins... though I don't think they'll do that. But I think the Heat will be even better next season.

Class A prick but I would give him what he wanted to run my franchise also.