fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:My biggest problem with Krispy is his propensity to settle for 18 foot shots. Step behind the line or drive. Statistically, that 18 footer, while sweet, lowers his TS%. And It takes pressure off the D. I'm just not a fan of the 18 ft jumpshot

who cares? He sinks that shot without thought or effort. Ewing was another big that learned to feast from there. Its easy offense for the same knocks you just mentioned. Want to take 18 footers? Fine... swish, swish swish.. Im not saying it should be a focus but when you shoot like KP does and the defense simply gives it to you make em pay.

I just checked the #s... they are insane. Look at his FG% from that spot:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/porzikr01.html

KP is shooting the long 2 at 53% (33% from 3). Thats fantastic. I have no doubt his 3 pt % will go up, he was really cold there to start the season, but his shot selection has been good. Dont worry about TS%... get good shots and hit em. The rest will take care of itself.

Yeah, his 18-20ft jumper is automatic.

Someone made the good point that players who played in Europe always have an adjustment period to the NBA three, because it's a step back from the European three. Dirk had it - heck Dirk shot 20% his first YEAR. KP shot 20% his first two weeks and then adjusted quickly. Calderon had an adjustment, etc.

He's still learning when and where to shoot, but that 18-20ft shot seems automatic for him. I don't think that's ever a bad shot for him. It also creates tons of space for Melo, Rolo, and the rest of the team if he's hitting that.

this this this!

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:My biggest problem with Krispy is his propensity to settle for 18 foot shots. Step behind the line or drive. Statistically, that 18 footer, while sweet, lowers his TS%. And It takes pressure off the D. I'm just not a fan of the 18 ft jumpshot

who cares? He sinks that shot without thought or effort. Ewing was another big that learned to feast from there. Its easy offense for the same knocks you just mentioned. Want to take 18 footers? Fine... swish, swish swish.. Im not saying it should be a focus but when you shoot like KP does and the defense simply gives it to you make em pay.

I just checked the #s... they are insane. Look at his FG% from that spot:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/porzikr01.html

KP is shooting the long 2 at 53% (33% from 3). Thats fantastic. I have no doubt his 3 pt % will go up, he was really cold there to start the season, but his shot selection has been good. Dont worry about TS%... get good shots and hit em. The rest will take care of itself.

Yeah, there's no such thing as a spot that's always bad in theory even though midrange often ends up being a bad shot. If KP keeps hitting those at 53%, it's a good shot. It's actually the shots between 3 and 16 feet (where he's hitting around 35%) that bring his efficiency down. All of these stats are based on small samples, though.

I think KP's efficiency should be put on hold as a topic his rookie year. This season is about him finding out what he can do on an NBA basketball court I'd give him free reign to learn from trial and error.

Future years will be for fine tuning the engine. This year is for letting the engine out and seeing what it can do.

KP can shoot from anywhere he damn pleases this year as far as I;m concerned.

Bonn1997 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Through ~20 games, the stats are insanely close between the two. Towns only has a clear advantage in shooting efficiency, though Porzingis is trending up in that department. Porzingis is also trending way up in blocks, averaging 4blks a game over the past 6 games.

Towns:
minutes per game: 27.4
13.9ppg 9.2rpg 2.2blk .8apg .8stl 50.2%fg 30.0%3ptfg 83.7%ft 51.5%efg

ORTG: 103
DRTG: 97
WS48: .146

Porzingis:
minutes per game: 28.1
13.8ppg 9.3rpg 2.0blk .9apg .7st 43.2%fg 32.7%3pfg 83.1%ft 47.1%efg

ORTG: 105
DRTG: 98
WS48: .148

Also, last 5 games for each show Towns is struggling and Porzingis is improving:

KP last 5:
15.6ppg 10.8rpg 3.4blk

Towns last 5:
8.4ppg 6.0rpg 1.6blk

If you look at the offensive ratings, KP has a slight efficiency advantage. The FG% is lower because of him taking 3s.

Not just because of the 3's. Towns' TS is about 3 points higher too.

fishmike wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:My biggest problem with Krispy is his propensity to settle for 18 foot shots. Step behind the line or drive. Statistically, that 18 footer, while sweet, lowers his TS%. And It takes pressure off the D. I'm just not a fan of the 18 ft jumpshot

who cares? He sinks that shot without thought or effort. Ewing was another big that learned to feast from there. Its easy offense for the same knocks you just mentioned. Want to take 18 footers? Fine... swish, swish swish.. Im not saying it should be a focus but when you shoot like KP does and the defense simply gives it to you make em pay.

I just checked the #s... they are insane. Look at his FG% from that spot:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/porzikr01.html

KP is shooting the long 2 at 53% (33% from 3). Thats fantastic. I have no doubt his 3 pt % will go up, he was really cold there to start the season, but his shot selection has been good. Dont worry about TS%... get good shots and hit em. The rest will take care of itself.

if he is hitting the 18-20 footer at a high rate then he of course should continue to take it. I predict that he will not hit that at a high rate over the long haul and therefore it will not be a very efficient shot for him. However, there are always outliers and maybe he is one of them.

bigbasketballs wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:My biggest problem with Krispy is his propensity to settle for 18 foot shots. Step behind the line or drive. Statistically, that 18 footer, while sweet, lowers his TS%. And It takes pressure off the D. I'm just not a fan of the 18 ft jumpshot

who cares? He sinks that shot without thought or effort. Ewing was another big that learned to feast from there. Its easy offense for the same knocks you just mentioned. Want to take 18 footers? Fine... swish, swish swish.. Im not saying it should be a focus but when you shoot like KP does and the defense simply gives it to you make em pay.

I just checked the #s... they are insane. Look at his FG% from that spot:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/porzikr01.html

KP is shooting the long 2 at 53% (33% from 3). Thats fantastic. I have no doubt his 3 pt % will go up, he was really cold there to start the season, but his shot selection has been good. Dont worry about TS%... get good shots and hit em. The rest will take care of itself.

if he is hitting the 18-20 footer at a high rate then he of course should continue to take it. I predict that he will not hit that at a high rate over the long haul and therefore it will not be a very efficient shot for him. However, there are always outliers and maybe he is one of them.

I GET your general philosophy on efficiency, but (and I'm NO NBA advanced metrics expert) but I think there is more going on here than just painting an area on the floor red and saying nobody should shoot from there.

It's an easy shot for him and comes within the flow of an offense and his particular role in it. Sometimes just an easy shot during the course of 36 mins in the floor 82 nights a year has it's own value hard to statistically quantify. Sometimes you don't want to have to work to get to a spot on the floor or work to get behind the line and still hope to get an easy, open shot off.

KP is no Curry. He's not going to bring the ball up the floor, generally be on the perimeter naturally and he's not going to break the defense down 8-10 times a night. You can't just say KP should be taking all those shots behind the arc.. it's not that simple.

Long two are going to come easily, uncontested and without a high degree of spent energy for him. For him, that might have it's own, harder to measure, efficient value.

Again, I have no problem at all with the long 2 as long as he hits it at a very high clip. I don't care how easy it is for him to shoot it. If you are taking too many shots at a low value then you are taking too many bad shots.

bigbasketballs wrote:

mreinman wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:My biggest problem with Krispy is his propensity to settle for 18 foot shots. Step behind the line or drive. Statistically, that 18 footer, while sweet, lowers his TS%. And It takes pressure off the D. I'm just not a fan of the 18 ft jumpshot

who cares? He sinks that shot without thought or effort. Ewing was another big that learned to feast from there. Its easy offense for the same knocks you just mentioned. Want to take 18 footers? Fine... swish, swish swish.. Im not saying it should be a focus but when you shoot like KP does and the defense simply gives it to you make em pay.

I just checked the #s... they are insane. Look at his FG% from that spot:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/porzikr01.html

KP is shooting the long 2 at 53% (33% from 3). Thats fantastic. I have no doubt his 3 pt % will go up, he was really cold there to start the season, but his shot selection has been good. Dont worry about TS%... get good shots and hit em. The rest will take care of itself.

if he is hitting the 18-20 footer at a high rate then he of course should continue to take it. I predict that he will not hit that at a high rate over the long haul and therefore it will not be a very efficient shot for him. However, there are always outliers and maybe he is one of them.

I GET your general philosophy on efficiency, but (and I'm NO NBA advanced metrics expert) but I think there is more going on here than just painting an area on the floor red and saying nobody should shoot from there.

It's an easy shot for him and comes within the flow of an offense and his particular role in it. Sometimes just an easy shot during the course of 36 mins in the floor 82 nights a year has it's own value hard to statistically quantify. Sometimes you don't want to have to work to get to a spot on the floor or work to get behind the line and still hope to get an easy, open shot off.

KP is no Curry. He's not going to bring the ball up the floor, generally be on the perimeter naturally and he's not going to break the defense down 8-10 times a night. You can't just say KP should be taking all those shots behind the arc.. it's not that simple.

Long two are going to come easily, uncontested and without a high degree of spent energy for him. For him, that might have it's own, harder to measure, efficient value.

Again, I have no problem at all with the long 2 as long as he hits it at a very high clip. I don't care how easy it is for him to shoot it. If you are taking too many shots at a low value then you are taking too many bad shots.

Well, I find that to be a very limited and limiting viewpoint. Game fundamentally changes if you just eliminate a large section of the floor and not for the better.

There is more going on in a basketball game than just FG%.

perhaps we should take half court shots also so we open up our options even more?

bad shots are bad shots. There will be times that we have to take them but they should never be goto shots.

bigbasketballs wrote:

mreinman wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

mreinman wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:My biggest problem with Krispy is his propensity to settle for 18 foot shots. Step behind the line or drive. Statistically, that 18 footer, while sweet, lowers his TS%. And It takes pressure off the D. I'm just not a fan of the 18 ft jumpshot

who cares? He sinks that shot without thought or effort. Ewing was another big that learned to feast from there. Its easy offense for the same knocks you just mentioned. Want to take 18 footers? Fine... swish, swish swish.. Im not saying it should be a focus but when you shoot like KP does and the defense simply gives it to you make em pay.

I just checked the #s... they are insane. Look at his FG% from that spot:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/porzikr01.html

KP is shooting the long 2 at 53% (33% from 3). Thats fantastic. I have no doubt his 3 pt % will go up, he was really cold there to start the season, but his shot selection has been good. Dont worry about TS%... get good shots and hit em. The rest will take care of itself.

if he is hitting the 18-20 footer at a high rate then he of course should continue to take it. I predict that he will not hit that at a high rate over the long haul and therefore it will not be a very efficient shot for him. However, there are always outliers and maybe he is one of them.

I GET your general philosophy on efficiency, but (and I'm NO NBA advanced metrics expert) but I think there is more going on here than just painting an area on the floor red and saying nobody should shoot from there.

It's an easy shot for him and comes within the flow of an offense and his particular role in it. Sometimes just an easy shot during the course of 36 mins in the floor 82 nights a year has it's own value hard to statistically quantify. Sometimes you don't want to have to work to get to a spot on the floor or work to get behind the line and still hope to get an easy, open shot off.

KP is no Curry. He's not going to bring the ball up the floor, generally be on the perimeter naturally and he's not going to break the defense down 8-10 times a night. You can't just say KP should be taking all those shots behind the arc.. it's not that simple.

Long two are going to come easily, uncontested and without a high degree of spent energy for him. For him, that might have it's own, harder to measure, efficient value.

Again, I have no problem at all with the long 2 as long as he hits it at a very high clip. I don't care how easy it is for him to shoot it. If you are taking too many shots at a low value then you are taking too many bad shots.

Well, I find that to be a very limited and limiting viewpoint. Game fundamentally changes if you just eliminate a large section of the floor and not for the better.

There is more going on in a basketball game than just FG%.

perhaps we should take half court shots also so we open up our options even more?

bad shots are bad shots. There will be times that we have to take them but they should never be goto shots.

Unless you're advocating trying to open up 3 quarter court shots… swing and miss :-)

And I don't know what a "goto" shot is.

As I say, you eliminate a spot in the floor, that'll just adversely effect the efficiency of places on the floor your opposition knows you'll only shoot from.

NBA court/offense is an ecosystem. You can't just kill the bees because they sting.

you can't eliminate it. The defense may box you into it at times or perhaps the shot clock is winding down.

There is a reason why GS only takes 12% of their shots from there and I am sure that most of those were not what they initially wanted.

bigbasketballs wrote:

mreinman wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

mreinman wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

mreinman wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:My biggest problem with Krispy is his propensity to settle for 18 foot shots. Step behind the line or drive. Statistically, that 18 footer, while sweet, lowers his TS%. And It takes pressure off the D. I'm just not a fan of the 18 ft jumpshot

who cares? He sinks that shot without thought or effort. Ewing was another big that learned to feast from there. Its easy offense for the same knocks you just mentioned. Want to take 18 footers? Fine... swish, swish swish.. Im not saying it should be a focus but when you shoot like KP does and the defense simply gives it to you make em pay.

I just checked the #s... they are insane. Look at his FG% from that spot:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/porzikr01.html

KP is shooting the long 2 at 53% (33% from 3). Thats fantastic. I have no doubt his 3 pt % will go up, he was really cold there to start the season, but his shot selection has been good. Dont worry about TS%... get good shots and hit em. The rest will take care of itself.

if he is hitting the 18-20 footer at a high rate then he of course should continue to take it. I predict that he will not hit that at a high rate over the long haul and therefore it will not be a very efficient shot for him. However, there are always outliers and maybe he is one of them.

I GET your general philosophy on efficiency, but (and I'm NO NBA advanced metrics expert) but I think there is more going on here than just painting an area on the floor red and saying nobody should shoot from there.

It's an easy shot for him and comes within the flow of an offense and his particular role in it. Sometimes just an easy shot during the course of 36 mins in the floor 82 nights a year has it's own value hard to statistically quantify. Sometimes you don't want to have to work to get to a spot on the floor or work to get behind the line and still hope to get an easy, open shot off.

KP is no Curry. He's not going to bring the ball up the floor, generally be on the perimeter naturally and he's not going to break the defense down 8-10 times a night. You can't just say KP should be taking all those shots behind the arc.. it's not that simple.

Long two are going to come easily, uncontested and without a high degree of spent energy for him. For him, that might have it's own, harder to measure, efficient value.

Again, I have no problem at all with the long 2 as long as he hits it at a very high clip. I don't care how easy it is for him to shoot it. If you are taking too many shots at a low value then you are taking too many bad shots.

Well, I find that to be a very limited and limiting viewpoint. Game fundamentally changes if you just eliminate a large section of the floor and not for the better.

There is more going on in a basketball game than just FG%.

perhaps we should take half court shots also so we open up our options even more?

bad shots are bad shots. There will be times that we have to take them but they should never be goto shots.

Unless you're advocating trying to open up 3 quarter court shots… swing and miss :-)

And I don't know what a "goto" shot is.

As I say, you eliminate a spot in the floor, that'll just adversely effect the efficiency of places on the floor your opposition knows you'll only shoot from.

NBA court/offense is an ecosystem. You can't just kill the bees because they sting.

you can't eliminate it. The defense may box you into it at times or perhaps the shot clock is winding down.

There is a reason why GS only takes 12% of their shots from there and I am sure that most of those were not what they initially wanted.

Part of the reason is who is on their team. It isn't universally translatable.

its a system thing. Philly takes the fewest of these shots and Houston is second fewest followed by detroit milwaukee and cleveland.

you will see less and less of it as coaches get more and more comfortable with shot charts and data.

bigbasketballs wrote:

mreinman wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

mreinman wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

mreinman wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

mreinman wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:My biggest problem with Krispy is his propensity to settle for 18 foot shots. Step behind the line or drive. Statistically, that 18 footer, while sweet, lowers his TS%. And It takes pressure off the D. I'm just not a fan of the 18 ft jumpshot

who cares? He sinks that shot without thought or effort. Ewing was another big that learned to feast from there. Its easy offense for the same knocks you just mentioned. Want to take 18 footers? Fine... swish, swish swish.. Im not saying it should be a focus but when you shoot like KP does and the defense simply gives it to you make em pay.

I just checked the #s... they are insane. Look at his FG% from that spot:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/porzikr01.html

KP is shooting the long 2 at 53% (33% from 3). Thats fantastic. I have no doubt his 3 pt % will go up, he was really cold there to start the season, but his shot selection has been good. Dont worry about TS%... get good shots and hit em. The rest will take care of itself.

if he is hitting the 18-20 footer at a high rate then he of course should continue to take it. I predict that he will not hit that at a high rate over the long haul and therefore it will not be a very efficient shot for him. However, there are always outliers and maybe he is one of them.

I GET your general philosophy on efficiency, but (and I'm NO NBA advanced metrics expert) but I think there is more going on here than just painting an area on the floor red and saying nobody should shoot from there.

It's an easy shot for him and comes within the flow of an offense and his particular role in it. Sometimes just an easy shot during the course of 36 mins in the floor 82 nights a year has it's own value hard to statistically quantify. Sometimes you don't want to have to work to get to a spot on the floor or work to get behind the line and still hope to get an easy, open shot off.

KP is no Curry. He's not going to bring the ball up the floor, generally be on the perimeter naturally and he's not going to break the defense down 8-10 times a night. You can't just say KP should be taking all those shots behind the arc.. it's not that simple.

Long two are going to come easily, uncontested and without a high degree of spent energy for him. For him, that might have it's own, harder to measure, efficient value.

Again, I have no problem at all with the long 2 as long as he hits it at a very high clip. I don't care how easy it is for him to shoot it. If you are taking too many shots at a low value then you are taking too many bad shots.

Well, I find that to be a very limited and limiting viewpoint. Game fundamentally changes if you just eliminate a large section of the floor and not for the better.

There is more going on in a basketball game than just FG%.

perhaps we should take half court shots also so we open up our options even more?

bad shots are bad shots. There will be times that we have to take them but they should never be goto shots.

Unless you're advocating trying to open up 3 quarter court shots… swing and miss :-)

And I don't know what a "goto" shot is.

As I say, you eliminate a spot in the floor, that'll just adversely effect the efficiency of places on the floor your opposition knows you'll only shoot from.

NBA court/offense is an ecosystem. You can't just kill the bees because they sting.

you can't eliminate it. The defense may box you into it at times or perhaps the shot clock is winding down.

There is a reason why GS only takes 12% of their shots from there and I am sure that most of those were not what they initially wanted.

Part of the reason is who is on their team. It isn't universally translatable.

its a system thing. Philly takes the fewest of these shots and Houston is second fewest followed by detroit milwaukee and cleveland.

you will see less and less of it as coaches get more and more comfortable with shot charts and data.

I suspect that sounded better in you head.

no ... brett brown is a very good coach with a terrible team. Not everything is black and white.

look at the number of long 2's now in the league and compare it to 5 years ago.

bigbasketballs wrote:

mreinman wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

mreinman wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

mreinman wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

mreinman wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

mreinman wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:My biggest problem with Krispy is his propensity to settle for 18 foot shots. Step behind the line or drive. Statistically, that 18 footer, while sweet, lowers his TS%. And It takes pressure off the D. I'm just not a fan of the 18 ft jumpshot

who cares? He sinks that shot without thought or effort. Ewing was another big that learned to feast from there. Its easy offense for the same knocks you just mentioned. Want to take 18 footers? Fine... swish, swish swish.. Im not saying it should be a focus but when you shoot like KP does and the defense simply gives it to you make em pay.

I just checked the #s... they are insane. Look at his FG% from that spot:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/porzikr01.html

KP is shooting the long 2 at 53% (33% from 3). Thats fantastic. I have no doubt his 3 pt % will go up, he was really cold there to start the season, but his shot selection has been good. Dont worry about TS%... get good shots and hit em. The rest will take care of itself.

if he is hitting the 18-20 footer at a high rate then he of course should continue to take it. I predict that he will not hit that at a high rate over the long haul and therefore it will not be a very efficient shot for him. However, there are always outliers and maybe he is one of them.

I GET your general philosophy on efficiency, but (and I'm NO NBA advanced metrics expert) but I think there is more going on here than just painting an area on the floor red and saying nobody should shoot from there.

It's an easy shot for him and comes within the flow of an offense and his particular role in it. Sometimes just an easy shot during the course of 36 mins in the floor 82 nights a year has it's own value hard to statistically quantify. Sometimes you don't want to have to work to get to a spot on the floor or work to get behind the line and still hope to get an easy, open shot off.

KP is no Curry. He's not going to bring the ball up the floor, generally be on the perimeter naturally and he's not going to break the defense down 8-10 times a night. You can't just say KP should be taking all those shots behind the arc.. it's not that simple.

Long two are going to come easily, uncontested and without a high degree of spent energy for him. For him, that might have it's own, harder to measure, efficient value.

Again, I have no problem at all with the long 2 as long as he hits it at a very high clip. I don't care how easy it is for him to shoot it. If you are taking too many shots at a low value then you are taking too many bad shots.

Well, I find that to be a very limited and limiting viewpoint. Game fundamentally changes if you just eliminate a large section of the floor and not for the better.

There is more going on in a basketball game than just FG%.

perhaps we should take half court shots also so we open up our options even more?

bad shots are bad shots. There will be times that we have to take them but they should never be goto shots.

Unless you're advocating trying to open up 3 quarter court shots… swing and miss :-)

And I don't know what a "goto" shot is.

As I say, you eliminate a spot in the floor, that'll just adversely effect the efficiency of places on the floor your opposition knows you'll only shoot from.

NBA court/offense is an ecosystem. You can't just kill the bees because they sting.

you can't eliminate it. The defense may box you into it at times or perhaps the shot clock is winding down.

There is a reason why GS only takes 12% of their shots from there and I am sure that most of those were not what they initially wanted.

Part of the reason is who is on their team. It isn't universally translatable.

its a system thing. Philly takes the fewest of these shots and Houston is second fewest followed by detroit milwaukee and cleveland.

you will see less and less of it as coaches get more and more comfortable with shot charts and data.

I suspect that sounded better in you head.

no ... brett brown is a very good coach with a terrible team. Not everything is black and white.

look at the number of long 2's now in the league and compare it to 5 years ago.

You don't have any clue has to how good a head coach Brown is. You're crediting him for being a good coach because you like his system, which makes it a circular argument.

You cannot argue it is a universally productive system because Philly, Houston, Milwaukee and Detroit have adopted it.

You clearly give too much credit to people who've adopted this system. This is not revolutionary. As as Kmicks fan you should know about Pitino's knicks, and the Rockets repeat teams.

I am in NO way dismissing the math of the 3-pointer, in any way, shape or form. I'm simply saying you can't universally apply it equally to all rosters and all players.

don't assume that you know what I am thinking .... brett brown is a good coach because his players are playing their balls off for him and because he has played some really top teams extremely well.

SA will not be playing such a system because it does not fit their personal. Parker and Duncan can't shoot the 3 and are really good from the sh1t shot areas.

bigbasketballs wrote:

mreinman wrote:don't assume that you know what I am thinking .... brett brown is a good coach because his players are playing their balls off for him and because he has played some really top teams extremely well.

I already knew from previous experience you're utterly subjectively giving credit to an historically bad team for playing a few subjectively selected games better than you subjectively imagine they otherwise should have.

If Philly played a some really top teams really well, then they've played some average to bad teams awfully.

How does one select which is attributed to good or poor coaching.

To suggest you can see through their awfulness to identify good coaching is pure silliness.

SA will not be playing such a system because it does not fit their personal.

Exactly.

ok dude