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Rotation sucks
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mreinman
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Member: #3189

11/14/2015  10:54 PM
NYG wrote:As much as it is frustrating to lose such winnable games. It is just 10 games into the season with a completely overhauled team so It is still very reasonable to give fischer a chance since. It is just his second year as well.

I have been formulating possible rotations in my head after the game and this is what I've come up with:

First Unit

1 - Gallo
2 - AA
3 - CA
4 - KoQ
5 - ROLO

Seeing the first quarter of last game, I noticed that the Gallo + AA back court provided more stability both in offense and defense so this should be able to hold against majority of opening line ups except maybe the most explosive and skilled back courts like OKC and GSW.

The majority of the offense will come from, you guessed it, Carmelo and to a minor extent AA. As much as Carmelo's preference for ISO is a feast or famine it cannot be denied he is still one of the best scoring machines in the league if he gets going. So give him what he wants and if he gets focused on D by double teams, or his shot is off we have 3 able shooters he can pass to, or he can set RoLo down low.

RoLo would be the main anchor for the paint and KoQ can help. Now you may wonder why KoQ over KP and the main reason is to preserve KP's energy for offense on the 2nd unit. Manytimes i see KP wasting energy running on the court and seldom get touches since the offense is focused on CA. In addition, KoQ is also a very gritty player and has decent shooting (can hit a three) and passing abilities.

Second Unit

1 - Grant
2 - Jose (Sasha/Early)
3 - Dwill (Early/LT)
4 - LT (Lou/KP)
5 - KP (Seraph)

The second unit's main task would be either maintaining enough momentum to sustain the lead established by the first unit, or if behind, provide enough offense to reduce the deficit to manageable levels as the first unit tries to rest.

The offense would focus on two players Dwill and KP.

There will be more emphasis on ball movement and Grant's drive and kick ability would be crucial here. Jose would provide shooting to space the floor but he can also be swapped with sasha depending on who is in the groove. Another interesting variation is using Early for a more up tempo game.


Lou is there just for rebounds and grit interchangeable with thomas who can provide much better offense.

Seraph can play the 5 but only if KP plays the 4, there should never be an instance where you have Seraph and Lou on the floor at the same time.

Putting KP, grant and to some extent Dwill on the 2nd unit would give them more freedom to play and boost their confidence.

Of course the strongest rotation of having melo, KP, rolo, AA and any guard can be used to close games or when to get a critical run.

brilliant! You just pulled KP out of the starting lineup SMH ... welcome to the board :-)

so here is what phil is thinking ....
AUTOADVERT
mreinman
Posts: 37827
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11/14/2015  10:55 PM
Knicks1969 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Kemet wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:fisher another experiment, another loss lead, fishers rotation took everyone out of rhythm

Experiment .. how many more games will Fisher experiment?

who cares ... the whole season if he needs to

You must be a NETS fan????

No. I am just rationale with rationale expectations.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
mreinman
Posts: 37827
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11/14/2015  10:56 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/14/2015  10:58 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Knicks1969 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Kemet wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:fisher another experiment, another loss lead, fishers rotation took everyone out of rhythm

Experiment .. how many more games will Fisher experiment?

who cares ... the whole season if he needs to

You must be a NETS fan????

I was hanging out with a nets fan today. He still thinks they have a shot at the playoffs and that they could bounce back once their schedule gets easier. He also hates that they got rid of DWill and said he wishes they had gotten rid of Jack and Johnson. A buddy of mine who is a huge sixer fan was talking to me yesterday and he still hates the MCW trade, and is pissed about Embiid. I think Sixer fans are resigned to the fact that Hinkie will experiment and tinker with the roster and that the team will be in the draft lottery again.

MCW can't shoot! That trade was brilliant.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
martin
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USA
11/14/2015  11:01 PM
NYG wrote:As much as it is frustrating to lose such winnable games. It is just 10 games into the season with a completely overhauled team so It is still very reasonable to give fischer a chance since. It is just his second year as well.

I have been formulating possible rotations in my head after the game and this is what I've come up with:

First Unit

1 - Gallo
2 - AA
3 - CA
4 - KoQ
5 - ROLO

Seeing the first quarter of last game, I noticed that the Gallo + AA back court provided more stability both in offense and defense so this should be able to hold against majority of opening line ups except maybe the most explosive and skilled back courts like OKC and GSW.

The majority of the offense will come from, you guessed it, Carmelo and to a minor extent AA. As much as Carmelo's preference for ISO is a feast or famine it cannot be denied he is still one of the best scoring machines in the league if he gets going. So give him what he wants and if he gets focused on D by double teams, or his shot is off we have 3 able shooters he can pass to, or he can set RoLo down low.

RoLo would be the main anchor for the paint and KoQ can help. Now you may wonder why KoQ over KP and the main reason is to preserve KP's energy for offense on the 2nd unit. Manytimes i see KP wasting energy running on the court and seldom get touches since the offense is focused on CA. In addition, KoQ is also a very gritty player and has decent shooting (can hit a three) and passing abilities.

Second Unit

1 - Grant
2 - Jose (Sasha/Early)
3 - Dwill (Early/LT)
4 - LT (Lou/KP)
5 - KP (Seraph)

The second unit's main task would be either maintaining enough momentum to sustain the lead established by the first unit, or if behind, provide enough offense to reduce the deficit to manageable levels as the first unit tries to rest.

The offense would focus on two players Dwill and KP.

There will be more emphasis on ball movement and Grant's drive and kick ability would be crucial here. Jose would provide shooting to space the floor but he can also be swapped with sasha depending on who is in the groove. Another interesting variation is using Early for a more up tempo game.


Lou is there just for rebounds and grit interchangeable with thomas who can provide much better offense.

Seraph can play the 5 but only if KP plays the 4, there should never be an instance where you have Seraph and Lou on the floor at the same time.

Putting KP, grant and to some extent Dwill on the 2nd unit would give them more freedom to play and boost their confidence.

Of course the strongest rotation of having melo, KP, rolo, AA and any guard can be used to close games or when to get a critical run.

Just out of practicality, no way KP ever leaves the starting lineup. EVER.

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markvmc
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Member: #1797

11/14/2015  11:19 PM
What exactly has KoQ shown to suggest he should be a starter? I'm not sure he should even be getting minutes at this point.
NYG
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Member: #6182

11/14/2015  11:27 PM
Why, I don't get it? Is it a matter of making him feel good, loved and respected? Or do we really lose much using KoQ over him?

I really feel uncomfortable with our second unit the previous games, most of the time they just squander any advantage we obtained.

Putting KP in the second unit would make him one of the main element of the offense, developing his offensive game further.

I think it will not hurt his ego being re-assigned there temporarily, he's a good kid he will understand it's for the team. He always tries his best to have an impact no matter when he comes in.

Knicks1969
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Member: #5915

11/14/2015  11:37 PM
KP needs to be in the starting 5 just like Grant
Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
knicks1248
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Member: #582
11/16/2015  7:19 PM
On Sunday, Kevin Seraphin’s 12 point performance not only represented his best of the season, but also the first time he’s scored in double-fingers since the Knicks’ first preseason game. It was also the first time, since, that he had played more than 13 minutes in a game.
The 25 year old fought through a nagging injury in the preseason, but since regaining form, hasn’t gotten the minutes such aforementioned performances suggest he needs.

This has seemingly been the case for many other Knicks so far in the early goings, such as Derrick Williams, Kyle O’Quinn, and even Robin Lopez. New York has had multiple games where Coach Derek Fisher has ushered every one of his soldiers out onto the hardwood. While it’s one thing to say the season is still young and it’s worthwhile figuring things out, such experiments are detrimental to the players who clearly deserve and require the minutes to be productive.

O’Quinn is a great example. The big man is a high energy guy whose positive impact on a game is not only often evident, but clearly infectious as well. In every game that he’s played 12 minutes or more, O’Quinn has logged at least six points. He’s also grabbed at least five rebounds in all but one of those games. In the two games during which he’s played more than twenty minutes, O’Quinn has also logged at least 10 rebounds and 3 assists.

Needless to say, he’s been productive. With that in mind, playing O’Quinn just 12 total minutes over the last two games is questionable, to say the least. After scoring 24 points in just 21 minutes in the Knicks’ season-opening win, Derrick Williams is yet to see as much playing time in any of the games that have followed. Robin Lopez’s 25.8 minutes per game represents his lowest minutes average in four seasons.

The Knicks’ frontline is obviously a crowded one. Aside from Carmelo Anthony and Kristaps Porzingis, Lance Thomas is the only other member receiving consistent minutes; he’s yet to play fewer than 15 minutes in a contest. Even Lopez, the team’s starting center, cannot say the same thing.


A few things to note; at 5-6, the Knicks have looked competitive. They were 5-36 through 41 games last season, so this is undoubtedly a step in the right direction. And of course, different players will hear their numbers called (at least, more often) on a nightly basis depending on the matchup at hand.

Nevertheless, underutilizing players and/or otherwise tossing them to the curb is another thing. The Knicks have tremendous depth, and that should continue to be viewed as an asset. Not providing certain players with consistent minutes could be considered negligence when taking into account how well a player (O’Quinn is still the best example of the bunch) is performing. There needs to be consistency, and Coach Fisher should provide such players with an assist in the form of balanced playing time in order to help them find respective rhythms.

If they aren’t receiving the minutes necessary, there’s a good chance players will underwhelm when suddenly called upon again.

Players need to rewarded for good play. It’d be a shame to see Seraphin’s great outing on Sunday be disregarded in the games to come. When a player like Porzingis is shooting 36% in his last six games, there are reserves nipping at his heels, hungry for more minutes, in the meantime.

Coach Fisher needs to find a better way of utilizing the talent the team has available to them, because otherwise, it’ll go to waste and certain players may not necessarily be ready when actually needed.


First time I'm thinking to much depth may back fire, i hope I'm wrong, but fisher is really goinng to have to make some sacrifices, and some players feelings may get hurt, but lance, sasha, an admundson, where not signed to play consistent minutes

ES
Rotation sucks

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