fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:In a way-too-early assessment of this rookie class it seems that it is very strong:

Franchise Players:
1. Towns
2. Porzingis

Stars:
3. Mudiay
4. Okafor
5. Russell

Top-tier role players/starters
6. Winslow
7. Johnson
8. WCS
9. Turner
10. Herzonja
11. Booker
12. J. Grant

I get all the KP giddiness but Franchise player??...What is your definition of a franchise player?

elite impact player on both sides of the ball. A guy you build a defense and an offense around.

So what aspect of his offense do you consider elite and what type of players do you surround him with to compliment his play on offense?

nothing about him is elite right now.. he's a rookie. We are just talking potential. But he can score from anywhere. I mean when his jumper starts to hit and he can pull you out of the paint and his game in the paint is established how do you guard him? He's money at the FT line, so playing him physical doesnt seem smart. He seems like a guy who is happy to shoot 15-18 at the FT line if you want to send him there.

I mean how do you guard a fluid athletic 7'3 guy who can knock down long jumpers, turn arounds, hooks, etc.. you cant. You just have to get him good looks. He's really unique. Should be interesting

But neither you or I have seen that..

then you havent been watching. The bank shot is new and hasnt been hitting. He's shooting poorly from downtown. The form and talent is there.. a 100%

This has holfresh bait written all over it. Why not just make your point?

No bait at all..I'm just wondering what you consider a franchise talent if you are calling KP a talent to build around..I think it's a long way from projecting him as such..Doesn't mean he can't be but I haven't seen flashes of anything yet to indicate that he can be termed a franchise talent..He can be very a disruptive player on the offensive glass and a deterrent to driving guards in the lane but that's franchise??

Knixkik wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

herkyJerky wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I am really interested on what Screamin A Smith has to say now.

You shouldn't be. His opinion on anything shouldn't mean a thing to anyone. All he was ever good for was passing along information, and recently he's shown he's not good even for that anymore. Basically he's now become useless, except for those who want to turn televised sports media into General Hospital.

I just want him to eat some crow.

He will… sort of.

Soon, most likely after Porzingis first 'breakout' game or his next Sportscenter worthy highlight, Smith will do a 6 minute segment about how he was wrong. The topic will seemingly be Porzingis, but it'll REALLY be about Smith patting himself on the back for being man enough to admit he was wrong.

Yup...no doubt about it.

Did you see on First Take? He more-less already addressed this. He didn't directly address him being "wrong", he backtracked and said he always felt Porzingis was a great prospect, but he was disappointed with Phil Jackson because he is supposed to build a team that can win now and he is building a team around a rookie who was advertised as someone who won't be ready for a few years. So i highly doubt he admits he is wrong, unless the Knicks go deep into the playoffs with Porzingis being a major reason for that. To him, he is right because Aldridge didn't come here and Porzingis, no matter how impressive he is, can't help you win a championship this season.

Dang. I just checked it.

Wow. This guy is a buffoon!!

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:In a way-too-early assessment of this rookie class it seems that it is very strong:

Franchise Players:
1. Towns
2. Porzingis

Stars:
3. Mudiay
4. Okafor
5. Russell

Top-tier role players/starters
6. Winslow
7. Johnson
8. WCS
9. Turner
10. Herzonja
11. Booker
12. J. Grant

I get all the KP giddiness but Franchise player??...What is your definition of a franchise player?

elite impact player on both sides of the ball. A guy you build a defense and an offense around.

So what aspect of his offense do you consider elite and what type of players do you surround him with to compliment his play on offense?

nothing about him is elite right now.. he's a rookie. We are just talking potential. But he can score from anywhere. I mean when his jumper starts to hit and he can pull you out of the paint and his game in the paint is established how do you guard him? He's money at the FT line, so playing him physical doesnt seem smart. He seems like a guy who is happy to shoot 15-18 at the FT line if you want to send him there.

I mean how do you guard a fluid athletic 7'3 guy who can knock down long jumpers, turn arounds, hooks, etc.. you cant. You just have to get him good looks. He's really unique. Should be interesting

But neither you or I have seen that..

then you havent been watching. The bank shot is new and hasnt been hitting. He's shooting poorly from downtown. The form and talent is there.. a 100%

This has holfresh bait written all over it. Why not just make your point?

No bait at all..I'm just wondering what you consider a franchise talent if you are calling KP a talent to build around..I think it's a long way from projecting him as such..Doesn't mean he can't be but I haven't seen flashes of anything yet to indicate that he can be termed a franchise talent..He can be very a disruptive player on the offensive glass and a deterrent to driving guards in the lane but that's franchise??

Then you don't understand the definition of a projection.

Why can't he be projected to be something in someone's opinon? A projection is nothing but an estimate of a future situation or an estimate of what may happen.

We're a long way from actually knowing for sure if he DOES become one.

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:In a way-too-early assessment of this rookie class it seems that it is very strong:

Franchise Players:
1. Towns
2. Porzingis

Stars:
3. Mudiay
4. Okafor
5. Russell

Top-tier role players/starters
6. Winslow
7. Johnson
8. WCS
9. Turner
10. Herzonja
11. Booker
12. J. Grant

I get all the KP giddiness but Franchise player??...What is your definition of a franchise player?

elite impact player on both sides of the ball. A guy you build a defense and an offense around.

So what aspect of his offense do you consider elite and what type of players do you surround him with to compliment his play on offense?

nothing about him is elite right now.. he's a rookie. We are just talking potential. But he can score from anywhere. I mean when his jumper starts to hit and he can pull you out of the paint and his game in the paint is established how do you guard him? He's money at the FT line, so playing him physical doesnt seem smart. He seems like a guy who is happy to shoot 15-18 at the FT line if you want to send him there.

I mean how do you guard a fluid athletic 7'3 guy who can knock down long jumpers, turn arounds, hooks, etc.. you cant. You just have to get him good looks. He's really unique. Should be interesting

But neither you or I have seen that..

then you havent been watching. The bank shot is new and hasnt been hitting. He's shooting poorly from downtown. The form and talent is there.. a 100%

This has holfresh bait written all over it. Why not just make your point?

No bait at all..I'm just wondering what you consider a franchise talent if you are calling KP a talent to build around..I think it's a long way from projecting him as such..Doesn't mean he can't be but I haven't seen flashes of anything yet to indicate that he can be termed a franchise talent..He can be very a disruptive player on the offensive glass and a deterrent to driving guards in the lane but that's franchise??

Then you don't understand the definition of a projection.

Why can't he be projected to be something in someone's opinon? A projection is nothing but an estimate of a future situation or an estimate of what may happen.

We're a long way from actually knowing for sure if he DOES become one.

Because you have to have a basis for making that projection...You can't make a projection based of something that you have not seen...

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:In a way-too-early assessment of this rookie class it seems that it is very strong:

Franchise Players:
1. Towns
2. Porzingis

Stars:
3. Mudiay
4. Okafor
5. Russell

Top-tier role players/starters
6. Winslow
7. Johnson
8. WCS
9. Turner
10. Herzonja
11. Booker
12. J. Grant

I get all the KP giddiness but Franchise player??...What is your definition of a franchise player?

elite impact player on both sides of the ball. A guy you build a defense and an offense around.

So what aspect of his offense do you consider elite and what type of players do you surround him with to compliment his play on offense?

nothing about him is elite right now.. he's a rookie. We are just talking potential. But he can score from anywhere. I mean when his jumper starts to hit and he can pull you out of the paint and his game in the paint is established how do you guard him? He's money at the FT line, so playing him physical doesnt seem smart. He seems like a guy who is happy to shoot 15-18 at the FT line if you want to send him there.

I mean how do you guard a fluid athletic 7'3 guy who can knock down long jumpers, turn arounds, hooks, etc.. you cant. You just have to get him good looks. He's really unique. Should be interesting

But neither you or I have seen that..

then you havent been watching. The bank shot is new and hasnt been hitting. He's shooting poorly from downtown. The form and talent is there.. a 100%

This has holfresh bait written all over it. Why not just make your point?

No bait at all..I'm just wondering what you consider a franchise talent if you are calling KP a talent to build around..I think it's a long way from projecting him as such..Doesn't mean he can't be but I haven't seen flashes of anything yet to indicate that he can be termed a franchise talent..He can be very a disruptive player on the offensive glass and a deterrent to driving guards in the lane but that's franchise??

It is a projection. That's what you do with rookies. He has a ton of talent, it is obvious, and impacts the game on both ends as a 20 year old. Not a lot do that as rookies. Towns is doing it, Anthony Davis may have been the last rookie to do it.

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:In a way-too-early assessment of this rookie class it seems that it is very strong:

Franchise Players:
1. Towns
2. Porzingis

Stars:
3. Mudiay
4. Okafor
5. Russell

Top-tier role players/starters
6. Winslow
7. Johnson
8. WCS
9. Turner
10. Herzonja
11. Booker
12. J. Grant

I get all the KP giddiness but Franchise player??...What is your definition of a franchise player?

elite impact player on both sides of the ball. A guy you build a defense and an offense around.

So what aspect of his offense do you consider elite and what type of players do you surround him with to compliment his play on offense?

nothing about him is elite right now.. he's a rookie. We are just talking potential. But he can score from anywhere. I mean when his jumper starts to hit and he can pull you out of the paint and his game in the paint is established how do you guard him? He's money at the FT line, so playing him physical doesnt seem smart. He seems like a guy who is happy to shoot 15-18 at the FT line if you want to send him there.

I mean how do you guard a fluid athletic 7'3 guy who can knock down long jumpers, turn arounds, hooks, etc.. you cant. You just have to get him good looks. He's really unique. Should be interesting

But neither you or I have seen that..

then you havent been watching. The bank shot is new and hasnt been hitting. He's shooting poorly from downtown. The form and talent is there.. a 100%

This has holfresh bait written all over it. Why not just make your point?

No bait at all..I'm just wondering what you consider a franchise talent if you are calling KP a talent to build around..I think it's a long way from projecting him as such..Doesn't mean he can't be but I haven't seen flashes of anything yet to indicate that he can be termed a franchise talent..He can be very a disruptive player on the offensive glass and a deterrent to driving guards in the lane but that's franchise??

It is a projection. That's what you do with rookies. He has a ton of talent, it is obvious, and impacts the game on both ends as a 20 year old. Not a lot do that as rookies. Towns is doing it, Anthony Davis may have been the last rookie to do it.

Towns and Anthony Davis are/were posting people and taking them in and out..They are two players who are creating those own shots opportunities, with players on them..We have not seen this from Porzingis yet..To me, a franchise player has to be able to create his own offense and that disrupts what the defense is trying to do..Right now we are seeing KP offense is basically off Melo..He is in position to hit wide open shots or put backs on misses..When KP start taking guys one on one, That's a franchise player...

Bait bait bait bait

Seems to be ESPN, Magic, Duncan, Kobe, the Knicks, Santa and everyone on this board sees things you just dont.

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:In a way-too-early assessment of this rookie class it seems that it is very strong:

Franchise Players:
1. Towns
2. Porzingis

Stars:
3. Mudiay
4. Okafor
5. Russell

Top-tier role players/starters
6. Winslow
7. Johnson
8. WCS
9. Turner
10. Herzonja
11. Booker
12. J. Grant

I get all the KP giddiness but Franchise player??...What is your definition of a franchise player?

elite impact player on both sides of the ball. A guy you build a defense and an offense around.

So what aspect of his offense do you consider elite and what type of players do you surround him with to compliment his play on offense?

nothing about him is elite right now.. he's a rookie. We are just talking potential. But he can score from anywhere. I mean when his jumper starts to hit and he can pull you out of the paint and his game in the paint is established how do you guard him? He's money at the FT line, so playing him physical doesnt seem smart. He seems like a guy who is happy to shoot 15-18 at the FT line if you want to send him there.

I mean how do you guard a fluid athletic 7'3 guy who can knock down long jumpers, turn arounds, hooks, etc.. you cant. You just have to get him good looks. He's really unique. Should be interesting

But neither you or I have seen that..

then you havent been watching. The bank shot is new and hasnt been hitting. He's shooting poorly from downtown. The form and talent is there.. a 100%

This has holfresh bait written all over it. Why not just make your point?

No bait at all..I'm just wondering what you consider a franchise talent if you are calling KP a talent to build around..I think it's a long way from projecting him as such..Doesn't mean he can't be but I haven't seen flashes of anything yet to indicate that he can be termed a franchise talent..He can be very a disruptive player on the offensive glass and a deterrent to driving guards in the lane but that's franchise??

It is a projection. That's what you do with rookies. He has a ton of talent, it is obvious, and impacts the game on both ends as a 20 year old. Not a lot do that as rookies. Towns is doing it, Anthony Davis may have been the last rookie to do it.

Towns and Anthony Davis are/were posting people and taking them in and out..They are two players who are creating those own shots opportunities, with players on them..We have not seen this from Porzingis yet..To me, a franchise player has to be able to create his own offense and that disrupts what the defense is trying to do..Right now we are seeing KP offense is basically off Melo..He is in position to hit wide open shots or put backs on misses..When KP start taking guys one on one, That's a franchise player...

if you want to see that from kp then get melo to ask for a trade and waive his no-trade clause.. or move melo and the freelance game you so love to the bench.

holfresh wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:In a way-too-early assessment of this rookie class it seems that it is very strong:

Franchise Players:
1. Towns
2. Porzingis

Stars:
3. Mudiay
4. Okafor
5. Russell

Top-tier role players/starters
6. Winslow
7. Johnson
8. WCS
9. Turner
10. Herzonja
11. Booker
12. J. Grant

I get all the KP giddiness but Franchise player??...What is your definition of a franchise player?

elite impact player on both sides of the ball. A guy you build a defense and an offense around.

So what aspect of his offense do you consider elite and what type of players do you surround him with to compliment his play on offense?

nothing about him is elite right now.. he's a rookie. We are just talking potential. But he can score from anywhere. I mean when his jumper starts to hit and he can pull you out of the paint and his game in the paint is established how do you guard him? He's money at the FT line, so playing him physical doesnt seem smart. He seems like a guy who is happy to shoot 15-18 at the FT line if you want to send him there.

I mean how do you guard a fluid athletic 7'3 guy who can knock down long jumpers, turn arounds, hooks, etc.. you cant. You just have to get him good looks. He's really unique. Should be interesting

But neither you or I have seen that..

then you havent been watching. The bank shot is new and hasnt been hitting. He's shooting poorly from downtown. The form and talent is there.. a 100%

This has holfresh bait written all over it. Why not just make your point?

No bait at all..I'm just wondering what you consider a franchise talent if you are calling KP a talent to build around..I think it's a long way from projecting him as such..Doesn't mean he can't be but I haven't seen flashes of anything yet to indicate that he can be termed a franchise talent..He can be very a disruptive player on the offensive glass and a deterrent to driving guards in the lane but that's franchise??

Then you don't understand the definition of a projection.

Why can't he be projected to be something in someone's opinon? A projection is nothing but an estimate of a future situation or an estimate of what may happen.

We're a long way from actually knowing for sure if he DOES become one.

Because you have to have a basis for making that projection...You can't make a projection based of something that you have not seen...

In only 7 games into his rookie season, he is only one of two NBA players currently leading their team in rebounds, blocks and steals. He's also tallied 80 points and 60 rebounds in those first 7 career games. The only other guys to do that are Shaq, Webber, Duncan, Griffin and Lamar Odom. All franchise players (Shaq and Tim beyond franchise player caliber) with the exception of Odom who had a solid NBA career.

He's the first rookie with at least 3 double doubles in his first 7 games since Ewing did it 30 years ago.

He is their 2nd leading scorer at 20 years old despite playing less than 25 minutes per game.

This is what you call a basis.

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:holfresh... if you have a point feel free to make it.

I make my point above...

I'm just wondering what you consider a franchise talent if you are calling KP a talent to build around..I think it's a long way from projecting him as such..Doesn't mean he can't be but I haven't seen flashes of anything yet to indicate that he can be termed a franchise talent

I have said many times what makes him a possible franchise talent. If you base it solely on creating shots, and expect him to do that from day 1, i think that is a misguided approach. Many franchise players did not start creating their own shots in their first 7 nba games. He has impacted the game on both ends, and shows the combination of talent and motor that few in the league possess. That's how to base a franchise talent, not whether or not they can create their own shots from day 1.