Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

wargames wrote:You guys need to chill. Melo is needed and honestly the best chance the knicks have to win in the immediate future is for Melo to still be in the last part of his prime while KP begins to get into his. The knicks would then be just 1 high level player away from legit having a chance at a championship.

This is right. What people don't realize is there is no real benefit to trading Melo. We don't have our draft pick next year, we won't get a ton of value in return for him, and let me say again, we don't have our draft pick next year! Melo is not hurting the development of our young guys, in fact, he takes pressure off of them. KP is playing well next to Melo, much better than Amare ever did. He is learning without the pressure of taking a lot of tough shots, but still getting his touches. In fact, Melo seems to be helping his confidence and overall feel on the floor. Trading Melo will not only hurt us in the short term without long-term gain, but it will put more pressure on KP by forcing the ball into his hands more and the Knicks faithful will naturally get frustrated over time. Considering Melo has bought into this group, i would say trading him would be a disaster considering the lack of potential return.

We do have our draft pick this year. It's called Phil draft and stashing Willie Hernangomez from the Spanish league aka Kristaps homeboy. By the time he comes to the Knicks, he'll be a 22 year old rookie ready to ball.

After 2016, we own all our picks. We'll have about $19m to throw at some nice role players that fit the teamball system to further the renovation. So yea....go ahead and trade Melo, our future is bright with or without him.

You have just proven my point. Our future is bright with or without him, so trading him does absolutely nothing. The only real reasoning those who want to trade him have given is they just want to "move on" and salvage a condition draft pick to make up for the one we have lost for 2016. Those who want to trade him can't use chemistry, fit, preventing development of our young guys, or anything related to those in their defense. In fact, i believe we have seen so far that those things would be affected negativity if he is traded. So yes, the future is bright with or without him, but for the sake of our own pride, i still want to win as many games as possible this season and not do Toronto any more favors this upcoming draft, which would be exactly what we would be doing if we trade him for spare parts just to "move on" and "focus on the future."

It's bright with or without him, but without him would lead to a quicker renovation if that makes sense.

We'd be a true teamball team, with probably 4 to 5 guys averaging double figures. As long as he's in tow, he parks Kristaps in the corner, takes away Jerian's drivability, and takes shots away from Galloway.

No, he doesn't completely prevent the development, but definitely hinders them as long as he needs his "touches" per game.

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

wargames wrote:You guys need to chill. Melo is needed and honestly the best chance the knicks have to win in the immediate future is for Melo to still be in the last part of his prime while KP begins to get into his. The knicks would then be just 1 high level player away from legit having a chance at a championship.

This is right. What people don't realize is there is no real benefit to trading Melo. We don't have our draft pick next year, we won't get a ton of value in return for him, and let me say again, we don't have our draft pick next year! Melo is not hurting the development of our young guys, in fact, he takes pressure off of them. KP is playing well next to Melo, much better than Amare ever did. He is learning without the pressure of taking a lot of tough shots, but still getting his touches. In fact, Melo seems to be helping his confidence and overall feel on the floor. Trading Melo will not only hurt us in the short term without long-term gain, but it will put more pressure on KP by forcing the ball into his hands more and the Knicks faithful will naturally get frustrated over time. Considering Melo has bought into this group, i would say trading him would be a disaster considering the lack of potential return.

We do have our draft pick this year. It's called Phil draft and stashing Willie Hernangomez from the Spanish league aka Kristaps homeboy. By the time he comes to the Knicks, he'll be a 22 year old rookie ready to ball.

After 2016, we own all our picks. We'll have about $19m to throw at some nice role players that fit the teamball system to further the renovation. So yea....go ahead and trade Melo, our future is bright with or without him.

You have just proven my point. Our future is bright with or without him, so trading him does absolutely nothing. The only real reasoning those who want to trade him have given is they just want to "move on" and salvage a condition draft pick to make up for the one we have lost for 2016. Those who want to trade him can't use chemistry, fit, preventing development of our young guys, or anything related to those in their defense. In fact, i believe we have seen so far that those things would be affected negativity if he is traded. So yes, the future is bright with or without him, but for the sake of our own pride, i still want to win as many games as possible this season and not do Toronto any more favors this upcoming draft, which would be exactly what we would be doing if we trade him for spare parts just to "move on" and "focus on the future."

It's bright with or without him, but without him would lead to a quicker renovation if that makes sense.

We'd be a true teamball team, with probably 4 to 5 guys averaging double figures. As long as he's in tow, he parks Kristaps in the corner, takes away Jerian's drivability, and takes shots away from Galloway.

No, he doesn't completely prevent the development, but definitely hinders them as long as he needs his "touches" per game.

Yea his nature to put up every shot interferes with KP's development and Melo is very close to breaking down completely like H20 from over usage. 13yrs in the league logging 40mins a night putting up 25 shots a night

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:He hasn't been in a situation in NY where a team could be built that had any hope of sustaining anything long term because of cap restrictions, inmjuries and lack of draft picks. Lets wait till game 5 or 6 before making proclamations.

can't blame for the crappy moves that our GM's made. Can't blame him for wins and losses. I can only blame him for how he plays.

Melo actually played well in NY but he always had the same issues that we keep bringing up. Of course its not as obvious when his shot is falling. In the playoffs where its so much harder to score with solo/iso basketball, this really becomes much more obvious.

James Harden somehow found a way to take a really weak team (and an extremely overrated howard) pretty damn far in the playoffs while scoring very efficiently. Now I know that Melo is no James Harden but the point is that it can be done. Scrubs can rise up if you trust them.

Melo did pretty well with the 54 win team. There was not much there by the spring.

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:He hasn't been in a situation in NY where a team could be built that had any hope of sustaining anything long term because of cap restrictions, inmjuries and lack of draft picks. Lets wait till game 5 or 6 before making proclamations.

can't blame for the crappy moves that our GM's made. Can't blame him for wins and losses. I can only blame him for how he plays.

Melo actually played well in NY but he always had the same issues that we keep bringing up. Of course its not as obvious when his shot is falling. In the playoffs where its so much harder to score with solo/iso basketball, this really becomes much more obvious.

James Harden somehow found a way to take a really weak team (and an extremely overrated howard) pretty damn far in the playoffs while scoring very efficiently. Now I know that Melo is no James Harden but the point is that it can be done. Scrubs can rise up if you trust them.

Melo did pretty well with the 54 win team. There was not much there by the spring.

He did. He did well for a guy who was hitting shots. His usage (35) : assist rate (14) was alarming and it was pretty obvious that when his shot was not falling it was not going to be pretty. That is not winning basketball.

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:He hasn't been in a situation in NY where a team could be built that had any hope of sustaining anything long term because of cap restrictions, inmjuries and lack of draft picks. Lets wait till game 5 or 6 before making proclamations.

can't blame for the crappy moves that our GM's made. Can't blame him for wins and losses. I can only blame him for how he plays.

Melo actually played well in NY but he always had the same issues that we keep bringing up. Of course its not as obvious when his shot is falling. In the playoffs where its so much harder to score with solo/iso basketball, this really becomes much more obvious.

James Harden somehow found a way to take a really weak team (and an extremely overrated howard) pretty damn far in the playoffs while scoring very efficiently. Now I know that Melo is no James Harden but the point is that it can be done. Scrubs can rise up if you trust them.

Melo did pretty well with the 54 win team. There was not much there by the spring.

He did. He did well for a guy who was hitting shots. His usage (35) : assist rate (14) was alarming and it was pretty obvious that when his shot was not falling it was not going to be pretty. That is not winning basketball.

What other options were there?

mreinman wrote:

Uptown wrote:

mreinman wrote:Melo is passing more, trying harder on defense, rebounding well. Getting some steals ........

If he could only stop forcing those shots and move the ball even more. DONT FORCE!!!! NEVER!

Barring injury, this guy is still an excellent player he just needs someone to get through to him and give him a mental adjustment. Impossible task? We'll see. I am still hopeful because he already looks like much less of a black hole than last year.

Name an NBA Scorer that NEVER FORCED a shot..EVER?! You are putting unrealistic expectations on Melo and then call him out for not doing it. Scorers force shots! Its what they do...

No its very realistic expectation and I am sure / I hope its phils expectation. Its fans like you who don't demand it from him.

No, its not realistic. I've been playing ball and watching for close to 35 years, coaching for 10. Asking a scorer to never force a shot ever is unrealistic. As a coach, you can demand perfection, if you get close, you've done your job. Scorers score and thats what they do. Jordan has forced shots, Bird forced shots, Dominique, Kobe, Lebron, Steph, Durant, Harden etc...Scorers shoot over 20 shots per. No way is every single one of those 20+ shots every single night is going to be perfect or in the flow. At least 5 of them will be forced. The great ones can some of them...That's reality

Uptown wrote:

mreinman wrote:Melo is passing more, trying harder on defense, rebounding well. Getting some steals ........

If he could only stop forcing those shots and move the ball even more. DONT FORCE!!!! NEVER!

Barring injury, this guy is still an excellent player he just needs someone to get through to him and give him a mental adjustment. Impossible task? We'll see. I am still hopeful because he already looks like much less of a black hole than last year.

Name an NBA Scorer that NEVER FORCED a shot..EVER?! You are putting unrealistic expectations on Melo and then call him out for not doing it. Scorers force shots! Its what they do...

he averages 4-6 bad shots a game since a knick. the only expectation you can have with that as a given on a nightly basis is underachievement and basically mediocrity. but what it comes down to for me is his lack of mental toughness. fisher called timeout after two melo ill-advise shots that bricked in the 1st quarter. then he used coded language to critique melo in the postgame. this season is shyt or get off the pot for melo. it's about fukkin' time.

Uptown wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Uptown wrote:

mreinman wrote:Melo is passing more, trying harder on defense, rebounding well. Getting some steals ........

If he could only stop forcing those shots and move the ball even more. DONT FORCE!!!! NEVER!

Barring injury, this guy is still an excellent player he just needs someone to get through to him and give him a mental adjustment. Impossible task? We'll see. I am still hopeful because he already looks like much less of a black hole than last year.

Name an NBA Scorer that NEVER FORCED a shot..EVER?! You are putting unrealistic expectations on Melo and then call him out for not doing it. Scorers force shots! Its what they do...

No its very realistic expectation and I am sure / I hope its phils expectation. Its fans like you who don't demand it from him.

No, its not realistic. I've been playing ball and watching for close to 35 years, coaching for 10. Asking a scorer to never force a shot ever is unrealistic. As a coach, you can demand perfection, if you get close, you've done your job. Scorers score and thats what they do. Jordan has forced shots, Bird forced shots, Dominique, Kobe, Lebron, Steph, Durant, Harden etc...Scorers shoot over 20 shots per. No way is every single one of those 20+ shots every single night is going to be perfect or in the flow. At least 5 of them will be forced. The great ones can some of them...That's reality

if he doesn't do other basketball things well on the court then those 5 forced shots are a recipe for mediocrity and underachievement. just look at kawhi leonard. that is a complete player.

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Uptown wrote:

mreinman wrote:Melo is passing more, trying harder on defense, rebounding well. Getting some steals ........

If he could only stop forcing those shots and move the ball even more. DONT FORCE!!!! NEVER!

Barring injury, this guy is still an excellent player he just needs someone to get through to him and give him a mental adjustment. Impossible task? We'll see. I am still hopeful because he already looks like much less of a black hole than last year.

Name an NBA Scorer that NEVER FORCED a shot..EVER?! You are putting unrealistic expectations on Melo and then call him out for not doing it. Scorers force shots! Its what they do...

he averages 4-6 bad shots a game since a knick. the only expectation you can have with that as a given on a nightly basis is underachievement and basically mediocrity. but what it comes down to for me is his lack of mental toughness. fisher called timeout after two melo ill-advise shots that bricked in the 1st quarter. then he used coded language to critique melo in the postgame. this season is shyt or get off the pot for melo. it's about fukkin' time.

Coded language. I am amazed at your ability to know what people are saying when they say something else. We're you cued into the hidden meaning by an 'irresponsible' Herring tweet or did you come up with this one on your own?

you didn't watch the post game interview with fisher.

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Uptown wrote:

mreinman wrote:Melo is passing more, trying harder on defense, rebounding well. Getting some steals ........

If he could only stop forcing those shots and move the ball even more. DONT FORCE!!!! NEVER!

Barring injury, this guy is still an excellent player he just needs someone to get through to him and give him a mental adjustment. Impossible task? We'll see. I am still hopeful because he already looks like much less of a black hole than last year.

Name an NBA Scorer that NEVER FORCED a shot..EVER?! You are putting unrealistic expectations on Melo and then call him out for not doing it. Scorers force shots! Its what they do...

he averages 4-6 bad shots a game since a knick. the only expectation you can have with that as a given on a nightly basis is underachievement and basically mediocrity. but what it comes down to for me is his lack of mental toughness. fisher called timeout after two melo ill-advise shots that bricked in the 1st quarter. then he used coded language to critique melo in the postgame. this season is shyt or get off the pot for melo. it's about fukkin' time.

Coded language. I am amazed at your ability to know what people are saying when they say something else. We're you cued into the hidden meaning by an 'irresponsible' Herring tweet or did you come up with this one on your own?

you didn't watch the post game interview with fisher.

I had it on. I was half watching and checking twitter to see if Kristaps was ok. I missed the coded language you were able to decode.

if you were half-listening then you missed the coded language.