holfresh wrote:

blkexec wrote:

blkexec wrote:

TPercy wrote:

mreinman wrote:aside from the turnovers, KP did not play that bad. His shot will come but at least he is not forcing them.

I think his productivity would be up a lot offensively if he was with Grant. He works well in those pick and roll situations where KP can pull up, draw a foul on the way to the basket, or clean up after a missed grant layup.

Move gallo and dwill / oquin to the starting lineup. ...kp and jose to the bench.

I prefer dwill because most teams SFs are PFs....and it's not fair to put a 7'3 guy on todays PFs. Plus in the 2nd unit its KPs team....melo is not in his way. Allows kp to grow into the triangle as the alpha dog.....which is the future. Deferring to melo is a bad habit to develop as afuture franchize player.

Jose will play better next to grant.....he can be the off guard instead of guarding quicker PGs. Gallo works because of his defense and 3pt shooting.

This team doesn't have the fire power to start off slow. ...the starting unit needs to be better than the bench to win games this season.

They are trying to protect KP..He doesn't go on the court unless Melo is there..I'm thinking they want to get him open looks when Melo is doubled to build his confidence.But it's just not KP..We have a starting lineup where only one player plays 30 minutes a game..That's an issue..

Aflalo is out, some guys are still feeling the effects of injuries, and because we have some depth, Fisher doesn't feel the need to rush our rookies into increased roles.

Don't see the minutes thing as being important at this point in the season, especially given the fact that, for the most part, this is an entirely new group of players.

Figure that you are talking about playing time and the team chemistry thing, but if you don't know which pieces fit perfectly at this point, its hard to force the issue. Pre-season is not the regular season, especially with a new group of players playing in a offense that doesn't come natural to today's players.

Interesting that THJ has not been able to fit in yet with Atlanta's offense, which is coming from a coach who worked under Popovich. Lots of movement in that offense...little standing around. I expect that he will pick it up eventually, but some players need time to learn. Maybe its their D which is giving him issues, though.

Almost all of Atlanta's key players were on the team last year, and Splitter is coming from SA, where he played under Budenholzer for a couple of years when he was an assistant coach on there.

By the end of the year Anthony, Aflalo, KP, Grant, and Galloway will all be playig 30+MPG, IMO...barring injuries, or course. O'Quinn, Williams, and Lopez will be in the higher 20's.

I'm looking at an evolving process at this point, not a finished product.

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:Outside of the Calderon/Sasha backcourt, I take only positives away from last nights game. The team as a whole did not shoot the ball well, but they were getting fairly good looks. Melo/KP took over this thread so I'll chime in. On Melo, I like him defensive efforr so far and willingness to try and do other things. He took 7 more shots that he should have yesterday given that his legs didn't appear under him yet but the game was out of reach at the half so I'm not gonna lose a ton of sleep over it.

KP has looked good to start the year. Obviously their will be growing pains. His stat lines have been pretty good considering he hasn't shot the ball particularly well in the first 2 games.

They can't roll Calderon out their much more. He is a disaster on defense. It's really bad. Giving up quality looks every time down the floor and easy offensive rebs bc players are out of position and scambling to cover for him getting burned.

I think Melo shot about 15 shots more than he should have.

Generally speaking, i agree, but i also think he has to shoot himself back into a rhythm, and for a few games we will just have to deal with this. Long-term it will help because he will get his timing back sooner.

That's just plain wrong. You don't continue to shoot during games to get back in rhythm, that's what practice and shootarounds are for!

If your shot's off during a real live game that affects the standing, just dish the rock, play some D, and get to the foul line instead to see the ball go into the hoop.

You don't dig your a team in a bigger hole. 25 points on 27 shots is plain disgusting at any level, playground, NBDL, NBA etc...

Shoot-arounds and practice are not like games. The feel is different. If you are a great shooter/scorer, sometimes you have to force a little. Not every game, but i can understand Melo putting up some extra shots in the first few games to get some rhythm. Its the same reason Fisher kept Melo in the game for longer against Milwaukee than he probably should have. You don't get full confidence from practice, you get it from playing competition. I have no problem with what he's doing, as long as it's not an every-game thing. I agree taking the ball to the basket a more, but he is going to find his shot only by shooting the ball.

Still wrong. You're only looking at it from Melo's angle, not the team's. What if people are open like Porzingis and Lopez, do you continue to let Melo put up extra contested heat check shots, even though he's not hot? If I'm his teammates and I'm open for a dunk or lay in and he continues to shoot long bricks, I'm tearing Melo a new as#hole.

Incorrect. I am looking at it from his perspective, but also from the team's perspective in that it is an 82-game season. If Melo has to force a little in the first 4-5 games, it means very little over the course of an 82-game season. We may lose a game or two if he's taking a lot of bad shots, but we will win many more games when he gets his rhythm back and the sooner the better. You don't have to agree with that perspective, but i can tell you i understand the approach. To me he looks like the same player he always has been, his shot just isn't falling. It will come.

THAT'S A HUGE PROBLEM!!!!

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:Outside of the Calderon/Sasha backcourt, I take only positives away from last nights game. The team as a whole did not shoot the ball well, but they were getting fairly good looks. Melo/KP took over this thread so I'll chime in. On Melo, I like him defensive efforr so far and willingness to try and do other things. He took 7 more shots that he should have yesterday given that his legs didn't appear under him yet but the game was out of reach at the half so I'm not gonna lose a ton of sleep over it.

KP has looked good to start the year. Obviously their will be growing pains. His stat lines have been pretty good considering he hasn't shot the ball particularly well in the first 2 games.

They can't roll Calderon out their much more. He is a disaster on defense. It's really bad. Giving up quality looks every time down the floor and easy offensive rebs bc players are out of position and scambling to cover for him getting burned.

I think Melo shot about 15 shots more than he should have.

Generally speaking, i agree, but i also think he has to shoot himself back into a rhythm, and for a few games we will just have to deal with this. Long-term it will help because he will get his timing back sooner.

That's just plain wrong. You don't continue to shoot during games to get back in rhythm, that's what practice and shootarounds are for!

If your shot's off during a real live game that affects the standing, just dish the rock, play some D, and get to the foul line instead to see the ball go into the hoop.

You don't dig your a team in a bigger hole. 25 points on 27 shots is plain disgusting at any level, playground, NBDL, NBA etc...

Shoot-arounds and practice are not like games. The feel is different. If you are a great shooter/scorer, sometimes you have to force a little. Not every game, but i can understand Melo putting up some extra shots in the first few games to get some rhythm. Its the same reason Fisher kept Melo in the game for longer against Milwaukee than he probably should have. You don't get full confidence from practice, you get it from playing competition. I have no problem with what he's doing, as long as it's not an every-game thing. I agree taking the ball to the basket a more, but he is going to find his shot only by shooting the ball.

Still wrong. You're only looking at it from Melo's angle, not the team's. What if people are open like Porzingis and Lopez, do you continue to let Melo put up extra contested heat check shots, even though he's not hot? If I'm his teammates and I'm open for a dunk or lay in and he continues to shoot long bricks, I'm tearing Melo a new as#hole.

Incorrect. I am looking at it from his perspective, but also from the team's perspective in that it is an 82-game season. If Melo has to force a little in the first 4-5 games, it means very little over the course of an 82-game season. We may lose a game or two if he's taking a lot of bad shots, but we will win many more games when he gets his rhythm back and the sooner the better. You don't have to agree with that perspective, but i can tell you i understand the approach. To me he looks like the same player he always has been, his shot just isn't falling. It will come.

He's not the same player though. He's 31 and on the wrong side of his prime. He may get his sea legs sooner or later, but at the expense of the team?!! That's bad for team unity and chemistry. That's cancerous selfish talk.

This isn't the ISO Woodson days any longer, move the dam rock to the open man, stop jab stepping when you clearly lost a step...

I agree that ball movement will be the key. Melo's main value will be hitting big shots when they are needed. Over the course of an 82-game season, we are on the same page here. I am just speaking to understanding what Melo is doing in the very-short term. And i disagree, he has not showed signs of losing a step. He has struggled with injuries in the past couple of years, and much of the time has played through it, with what will obviously be lesser results. But playing through injuries, and a declining skill-set are 2 different things.

the problem is not physical it's mental.

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:Outside of the Calderon/Sasha backcourt, I take only positives away from last nights game. The team as a whole did not shoot the ball well, but they were getting fairly good looks. Melo/KP took over this thread so I'll chime in. On Melo, I like him defensive efforr so far and willingness to try and do other things. He took 7 more shots that he should have yesterday given that his legs didn't appear under him yet but the game was out of reach at the half so I'm not gonna lose a ton of sleep over it.

KP has looked good to start the year. Obviously their will be growing pains. His stat lines have been pretty good considering he hasn't shot the ball particularly well in the first 2 games.

They can't roll Calderon out their much more. He is a disaster on defense. It's really bad. Giving up quality looks every time down the floor and easy offensive rebs bc players are out of position and scambling to cover for him getting burned.

I think Melo shot about 15 shots more than he should have.

Generally speaking, i agree, but i also think he has to shoot himself back into a rhythm, and for a few games we will just have to deal with this. Long-term it will help because he will get his timing back sooner.

That's just plain wrong. You don't continue to shoot during games to get back in rhythm, that's what practice and shootarounds are for!

If your shot's off during a real live game that affects the standing, just dish the rock, play some D, and get to the foul line instead to see the ball go into the hoop.

You don't dig your a team in a bigger hole. 25 points on 27 shots is plain disgusting at any level, playground, NBDL, NBA etc...

Shoot-arounds and practice are not like games. The feel is different. If you are a great shooter/scorer, sometimes you have to force a little. Not every game, but i can understand Melo putting up some extra shots in the first few games to get some rhythm. Its the same reason Fisher kept Melo in the game for longer against Milwaukee than he probably should have. You don't get full confidence from practice, you get it from playing competition. I have no problem with what he's doing, as long as it's not an every-game thing. I agree taking the ball to the basket a more, but he is going to find his shot only by shooting the ball.

Still wrong. You're only looking at it from Melo's angle, not the team's. What if people are open like Porzingis and Lopez, do you continue to let Melo put up extra contested heat check shots, even though he's not hot? If I'm his teammates and I'm open for a dunk or lay in and he continues to shoot long bricks, I'm tearing Melo a new as#hole.

Incorrect. I am looking at it from his perspective, but also from the team's perspective in that it is an 82-game season. If Melo has to force a little in the first 4-5 games, it means very little over the course of an 82-game season. We may lose a game or two if he's taking a lot of bad shots, but we will win many more games when he gets his rhythm back and the sooner the better. You don't have to agree with that perspective, but i can tell you i understand the approach. To me he looks like the same player he always has been, his shot just isn't falling. It will come.

THAT'S A HUGE PROBLEM!!!!

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:Am I the only one excited to see Melo move like the old Melo??..Plant his feet and cut for the first time since his surgery??..I was scared he was tentative in the preseason and first game that he might be in the LeBron mode of decline...He planted his feet, blew by his opponent, and cut off his left side..He is excited to see it's still there...80 games to go...

These guys aren't robots..The switch doesn't go on when the ball is jumped at center..If anyone here has played basketball for real, you know you lose your game after two or three days of not playing...8 month later, wake up guys...

Completely agree. I was trying to say this earlier. People are so quick to say he's lost a step, or whatever. The guy needs time to get back to playing basketball at this level.

You have to understand that some here live on riding Melo...They didn't see us down 20+ points in the 3rd qt and the reason for that..The saw Melo taking 27 shots in the box score..Nothing u can do about that...

where were you in the game thread, slick?

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:Outside of the Calderon/Sasha backcourt, I take only positives away from last nights game. The team as a whole did not shoot the ball well, but they were getting fairly good looks. Melo/KP took over this thread so I'll chime in. On Melo, I like him defensive efforr so far and willingness to try and do other things. He took 7 more shots that he should have yesterday given that his legs didn't appear under him yet but the game was out of reach at the half so I'm not gonna lose a ton of sleep over it.

KP has looked good to start the year. Obviously their will be growing pains. His stat lines have been pretty good considering he hasn't shot the ball particularly well in the first 2 games.

They can't roll Calderon out their much more. He is a disaster on defense. It's really bad. Giving up quality looks every time down the floor and easy offensive rebs bc players are out of position and scambling to cover for him getting burned.

I think Melo shot about 15 shots more than he should have.

Generally speaking, i agree, but i also think he has to shoot himself back into a rhythm, and for a few games we will just have to deal with this. Long-term it will help because he will get his timing back sooner.

That's just plain wrong. You don't continue to shoot during games to get back in rhythm, that's what practice and shootarounds are for!

If your shot's off during a real live game that affects the standing, just dish the rock, play some D, and get to the foul line instead to see the ball go into the hoop.

You don't dig your a team in a bigger hole. 25 points on 27 shots is plain disgusting at any level, playground, NBDL, NBA etc...

Shoot-arounds and practice are not like games. The feel is different. If you are a great shooter/scorer, sometimes you have to force a little. Not every game, but i can understand Melo putting up some extra shots in the first few games to get some rhythm. Its the same reason Fisher kept Melo in the game for longer against Milwaukee than he probably should have. You don't get full confidence from practice, you get it from playing competition. I have no problem with what he's doing, as long as it's not an every-game thing. I agree taking the ball to the basket a more, but he is going to find his shot only by shooting the ball.

Still wrong. You're only looking at it from Melo's angle, not the team's. What if people are open like Porzingis and Lopez, do you continue to let Melo put up extra contested heat check shots, even though he's not hot? If I'm his teammates and I'm open for a dunk or lay in and he continues to shoot long bricks, I'm tearing Melo a new as#hole.

Incorrect. I am looking at it from his perspective, but also from the team's perspective in that it is an 82-game season. If Melo has to force a little in the first 4-5 games, it means very little over the course of an 82-game season. We may lose a game or two if he's taking a lot of bad shots, but we will win many more games when he gets his rhythm back and the sooner the better. You don't have to agree with that perspective, but i can tell you i understand the approach. To me he looks like the same player he always has been, his shot just isn't falling. It will come.

Both sides of this argument have good points, but in some ways are a little wrong too. A Shooter does have to shoot himself back into rhythm, there's no doubt about that, and it's true that practice shooting and in-game shooting are totally different, but 27 shots in 25 minutes or whatever it was IS way too much, especially because you don't have the touch at the moment. Plus it's just not the way you want to start the season, by jacking up all those shots and taking away opportunities from your team mates. You can do that here and there down the stretch when you get your shot back, but right at the start it's a bad idea, especially right AFTER a game where you were obviously more willing to share.
This is going to sound crazy, and of course hindsight is usually 20/20, but I'm starting to think that maybe giving Vujacic a blow on the 2nd of a back to back and giving Early the starting spot at the 2 might have been the way to go. Better defense on Teague, pick up the pace. You know Vujacic was tired. He probably hasn't played a back to back in years. Honestly I'm not sure if they do those in the Euroleague during regular season play.

mreinman wrote:

herkyJerky wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:Outside of the Calderon/Sasha backcourt, I take only positives away from last nights game. The team as a whole did not shoot the ball well, but they were getting fairly good looks. Melo/KP took over this thread so I'll chime in. On Melo, I like him defensive efforr so far and willingness to try and do other things. He took 7 more shots that he should have yesterday given that his legs didn't appear under him yet but the game was out of reach at the half so I'm not gonna lose a ton of sleep over it.

KP has looked good to start the year. Obviously their will be growing pains. His stat lines have been pretty good considering he hasn't shot the ball particularly well in the first 2 games.

They can't roll Calderon out their much more. He is a disaster on defense. It's really bad. Giving up quality looks every time down the floor and easy offensive rebs bc players are out of position and scambling to cover for him getting burned.

I think Melo shot about 15 shots more than he should have.

Generally speaking, i agree, but i also think he has to shoot himself back into a rhythm, and for a few games we will just have to deal with this. Long-term it will help because he will get his timing back sooner.

That's just plain wrong. You don't continue to shoot during games to get back in rhythm, that's what practice and shootarounds are for!

If your shot's off during a real live game that affects the standing, just dish the rock, play some D, and get to the foul line instead to see the ball go into the hoop.

You don't dig your a team in a bigger hole. 25 points on 27 shots is plain disgusting at any level, playground, NBDL, NBA etc...

Shoot-arounds and practice are not like games. The feel is different. If you are a great shooter/scorer, sometimes you have to force a little. Not every game, but i can understand Melo putting up some extra shots in the first few games to get some rhythm. Its the same reason Fisher kept Melo in the game for longer against Milwaukee than he probably should have. You don't get full confidence from practice, you get it from playing competition. I have no problem with what he's doing, as long as it's not an every-game thing. I agree taking the ball to the basket a more, but he is going to find his shot only by shooting the ball.

Still wrong. You're only looking at it from Melo's angle, not the team's. What if people are open like Porzingis and Lopez, do you continue to let Melo put up extra contested heat check shots, even though he's not hot? If I'm his teammates and I'm open for a dunk or lay in and he continues to shoot long bricks, I'm tearing Melo a new as#hole.

Incorrect. I am looking at it from his perspective, but also from the team's perspective in that it is an 82-game season. If Melo has to force a little in the first 4-5 games, it means very little over the course of an 82-game season. We may lose a game or two if he's taking a lot of bad shots, but we will win many more games when he gets his rhythm back and the sooner the better. You don't have to agree with that perspective, but i can tell you i understand the approach. To me he looks like the same player he always has been, his shot just isn't falling. It will come.

Both sides of this argument have good points, but in some ways are a little wrong too. A Shooter does have to shoot himself back into rhythm, there's no doubt about that, and it's true that practice shooting and in-game shooting are totally different, but 27 shots in 25 minutes or whatever it was IS way too much, especially because you don't have the touch at the moment. Plus it's just not the way you want to start the season, by jacking up all those shots and taking away opportunities from your team mates. You can do that here and there down the stretch when you get your shot back, but right at the start it's a bad idea, especially right AFTER a game where you were obviously more willing to share.
This is going to sound crazy, and of course hindsight is usually 20/20, but I'm starting to think that maybe giving Vujacic a blow on the 2nd of a back to back and giving Early the starting spot at the 2 might have been the way to go. Better defense on Teague, pick up the pace. You know Vujacic was tired. He probably hasn't played a back to back in years. Honestly I'm not sure if they do those in the Euroleague during regular season play.

wow ... I thought you only posted cream puff pieces. fair take

Lol are you referring to my criticism of Melo? I never said I wasn't critical of Melo. I never claimed that Melo is perfect. I do like him and appreciate what he brings to this team, but I also recognize that he was flaws as well. It's just the arguments based on his Assist averages that piss me off because people stubbornly fail to acknowledge that he has been surrounded by notoriously streaky and no-so-reliable shooters for the past several years. I mean what the hell are you supposed to do? In my opinion he's lucky his Assist averages weren't lower the past few years when you take that into account.

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:Am I the only one excited to see Melo move like the old Melo??..Plant his feet and cut for the first time since his surgery??..I was scared he was tentative in the preseason and first game that he might be in the LeBron mode of decline...He planted his feet, blew by his opponent, and cut off his left side..He is excited to see it's still there...80 games to go...

These guys aren't robots..The switch doesn't go on when the ball is jumped at center..If anyone here has played basketball for real, you know you lose your game after two or three days of not playing...8 month later, wake up guys...

Completely agree. I was trying to say this earlier. People are so quick to say he's lost a step, or whatever. The guy needs time to get back to playing basketball at this level.

You have to understand that some here live on riding Melo...They didn't see us down 20+ points in the 3rd qt and the reason for that..The saw Melo taking 27 shots in the box score..Nothing u can do about that...

where were you in the game thread, slick?

Naw...Was paying attention to the game..Don't like going to games either, too much distractions, can't rewind if I missed a play?..You missed my keen insights?

herkyJerky wrote:

mreinman wrote:

herkyJerky wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:Outside of the Calderon/Sasha backcourt, I take only positives away from last nights game. The team as a whole did not shoot the ball well, but they were getting fairly good looks. Melo/KP took over this thread so I'll chime in. On Melo, I like him defensive efforr so far and willingness to try and do other things. He took 7 more shots that he should have yesterday given that his legs didn't appear under him yet but the game was out of reach at the half so I'm not gonna lose a ton of sleep over it.

KP has looked good to start the year. Obviously their will be growing pains. His stat lines have been pretty good considering he hasn't shot the ball particularly well in the first 2 games.

They can't roll Calderon out their much more. He is a disaster on defense. It's really bad. Giving up quality looks every time down the floor and easy offensive rebs bc players are out of position and scambling to cover for him getting burned.

I think Melo shot about 15 shots more than he should have.

Generally speaking, i agree, but i also think he has to shoot himself back into a rhythm, and for a few games we will just have to deal with this. Long-term it will help because he will get his timing back sooner.

That's just plain wrong. You don't continue to shoot during games to get back in rhythm, that's what practice and shootarounds are for!

If your shot's off during a real live game that affects the standing, just dish the rock, play some D, and get to the foul line instead to see the ball go into the hoop.

You don't dig your a team in a bigger hole. 25 points on 27 shots is plain disgusting at any level, playground, NBDL, NBA etc...

Shoot-arounds and practice are not like games. The feel is different. If you are a great shooter/scorer, sometimes you have to force a little. Not every game, but i can understand Melo putting up some extra shots in the first few games to get some rhythm. Its the same reason Fisher kept Melo in the game for longer against Milwaukee than he probably should have. You don't get full confidence from practice, you get it from playing competition. I have no problem with what he's doing, as long as it's not an every-game thing. I agree taking the ball to the basket a more, but he is going to find his shot only by shooting the ball.

Still wrong. You're only looking at it from Melo's angle, not the team's. What if people are open like Porzingis and Lopez, do you continue to let Melo put up extra contested heat check shots, even though he's not hot? If I'm his teammates and I'm open for a dunk or lay in and he continues to shoot long bricks, I'm tearing Melo a new as#hole.

Incorrect. I am looking at it from his perspective, but also from the team's perspective in that it is an 82-game season. If Melo has to force a little in the first 4-5 games, it means very little over the course of an 82-game season. We may lose a game or two if he's taking a lot of bad shots, but we will win many more games when he gets his rhythm back and the sooner the better. You don't have to agree with that perspective, but i can tell you i understand the approach. To me he looks like the same player he always has been, his shot just isn't falling. It will come.

Both sides of this argument have good points, but in some ways are a little wrong too. A Shooter does have to shoot himself back into rhythm, there's no doubt about that, and it's true that practice shooting and in-game shooting are totally different, but 27 shots in 25 minutes or whatever it was IS way too much, especially because you don't have the touch at the moment. Plus it's just not the way you want to start the season, by jacking up all those shots and taking away opportunities from your team mates. You can do that here and there down the stretch when you get your shot back, but right at the start it's a bad idea, especially right AFTER a game where you were obviously more willing to share.
This is going to sound crazy, and of course hindsight is usually 20/20, but I'm starting to think that maybe giving Vujacic a blow on the 2nd of a back to back and giving Early the starting spot at the 2 might have been the way to go. Better defense on Teague, pick up the pace. You know Vujacic was tired. He probably hasn't played a back to back in years. Honestly I'm not sure if they do those in the Euroleague during regular season play.

wow ... I thought you only posted cream puff pieces. fair take

Lol are you referring to my criticism of Melo? I never said I wasn't critical of Melo. I never claimed that Melo is perfect. I do like him and appreciate what he brings to this team, but I also recognize that he was flaws as well. It's just the arguments based on his Assist averages that piss me off because people stubbornly fail to acknowledge that he has been surrounded by notoriously streaky and no-so-reliable shooters for the past several years. I mean what the hell are you supposed to do? In my opinion he's lucky his Assist averages weren't lower the past few years when you take that into account.

so when melo had better players/shooters he passed more?

so sick of that silly excuse.

how many assists did he have in season 54?

mreinman wrote:

herkyJerky wrote:

mreinman wrote:

herkyJerky wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:Outside of the Calderon/Sasha backcourt, I take only positives away from last nights game. The team as a whole did not shoot the ball well, but they were getting fairly good looks. Melo/KP took over this thread so I'll chime in. On Melo, I like him defensive efforr so far and willingness to try and do other things. He took 7 more shots that he should have yesterday given that his legs didn't appear under him yet but the game was out of reach at the half so I'm not gonna lose a ton of sleep over it.

KP has looked good to start the year. Obviously their will be growing pains. His stat lines have been pretty good considering he hasn't shot the ball particularly well in the first 2 games.

They can't roll Calderon out their much more. He is a disaster on defense. It's really bad. Giving up quality looks every time down the floor and easy offensive rebs bc players are out of position and scambling to cover for him getting burned.

I think Melo shot about 15 shots more than he should have.

Generally speaking, i agree, but i also think he has to shoot himself back into a rhythm, and for a few games we will just have to deal with this. Long-term it will help because he will get his timing back sooner.

That's just plain wrong. You don't continue to shoot during games to get back in rhythm, that's what practice and shootarounds are for!

If your shot's off during a real live game that affects the standing, just dish the rock, play some D, and get to the foul line instead to see the ball go into the hoop.

You don't dig your a team in a bigger hole. 25 points on 27 shots is plain disgusting at any level, playground, NBDL, NBA etc...

Shoot-arounds and practice are not like games. The feel is different. If you are a great shooter/scorer, sometimes you have to force a little. Not every game, but i can understand Melo putting up some extra shots in the first few games to get some rhythm. Its the same reason Fisher kept Melo in the game for longer against Milwaukee than he probably should have. You don't get full confidence from practice, you get it from playing competition. I have no problem with what he's doing, as long as it's not an every-game thing. I agree taking the ball to the basket a more, but he is going to find his shot only by shooting the ball.

Still wrong. You're only looking at it from Melo's angle, not the team's. What if people are open like Porzingis and Lopez, do you continue to let Melo put up extra contested heat check shots, even though he's not hot? If I'm his teammates and I'm open for a dunk or lay in and he continues to shoot long bricks, I'm tearing Melo a new as#hole.

Incorrect. I am looking at it from his perspective, but also from the team's perspective in that it is an 82-game season. If Melo has to force a little in the first 4-5 games, it means very little over the course of an 82-game season. We may lose a game or two if he's taking a lot of bad shots, but we will win many more games when he gets his rhythm back and the sooner the better. You don't have to agree with that perspective, but i can tell you i understand the approach. To me he looks like the same player he always has been, his shot just isn't falling. It will come.

Both sides of this argument have good points, but in some ways are a little wrong too. A Shooter does have to shoot himself back into rhythm, there's no doubt about that, and it's true that practice shooting and in-game shooting are totally different, but 27 shots in 25 minutes or whatever it was IS way too much, especially because you don't have the touch at the moment. Plus it's just not the way you want to start the season, by jacking up all those shots and taking away opportunities from your team mates. You can do that here and there down the stretch when you get your shot back, but right at the start it's a bad idea, especially right AFTER a game where you were obviously more willing to share.
This is going to sound crazy, and of course hindsight is usually 20/20, but I'm starting to think that maybe giving Vujacic a blow on the 2nd of a back to back and giving Early the starting spot at the 2 might have been the way to go. Better defense on Teague, pick up the pace. You know Vujacic was tired. He probably hasn't played a back to back in years. Honestly I'm not sure if they do those in the Euroleague during regular season play.

wow ... I thought you only posted cream puff pieces. fair take

Lol are you referring to my criticism of Melo? I never said I wasn't critical of Melo. I never claimed that Melo is perfect. I do like him and appreciate what he brings to this team, but I also recognize that he was flaws as well. It's just the arguments based on his Assist averages that piss me off because people stubbornly fail to acknowledge that he has been surrounded by notoriously streaky and no-so-reliable shooters for the past several years. I mean what the hell are you supposed to do? In my opinion he's lucky his Assist averages weren't lower the past few years when you take that into account.

so when melo had better players/shooters he passed more?

so sick of that silly excuse.

how many assists did he have in season 54?

you mean the season where his usage was a career-high 35.6 and his assist rate was among his lowest at 14.1%? THAT season? yeah he racked up 2.5 assists and oh, by the way, had a dbpm of minus 2.3.

i am rooting for this guy to get it, for a light bulb to go off, but it seems as though several posters would prefer that he keep doing what he has always done, and have the coach defer and pander, accept the staus quo, and place blame at the feet of his "supporting cast." no. that is accepting underachievement and mediocrity. you only get to treat others as a supporting cast when you yourself have a hand in making them better... not worse!

herkyJerky wrote:

mreinman wrote:

herkyJerky wrote:

mreinman wrote:

herkyJerky wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:Outside of the Calderon/Sasha backcourt, I take only positives away from last nights game. The team as a whole did not shoot the ball well, but they were getting fairly good looks. Melo/KP took over this thread so I'll chime in. On Melo, I like him defensive efforr so far and willingness to try and do other things. He took 7 more shots that he should have yesterday given that his legs didn't appear under him yet but the game was out of reach at the half so I'm not gonna lose a ton of sleep over it.

KP has looked good to start the year. Obviously their will be growing pains. His stat lines have been pretty good considering he hasn't shot the ball particularly well in the first 2 games.

They can't roll Calderon out their much more. He is a disaster on defense. It's really bad. Giving up quality looks every time down the floor and easy offensive rebs bc players are out of position and scambling to cover for him getting burned.

I think Melo shot about 15 shots more than he should have.

Generally speaking, i agree, but i also think he has to shoot himself back into a rhythm, and for a few games we will just have to deal with this. Long-term it will help because he will get his timing back sooner.

That's just plain wrong. You don't continue to shoot during games to get back in rhythm, that's what practice and shootarounds are for!

If your shot's off during a real live game that affects the standing, just dish the rock, play some D, and get to the foul line instead to see the ball go into the hoop.

You don't dig your a team in a bigger hole. 25 points on 27 shots is plain disgusting at any level, playground, NBDL, NBA etc...

Shoot-arounds and practice are not like games. The feel is different. If you are a great shooter/scorer, sometimes you have to force a little. Not every game, but i can understand Melo putting up some extra shots in the first few games to get some rhythm. Its the same reason Fisher kept Melo in the game for longer against Milwaukee than he probably should have. You don't get full confidence from practice, you get it from playing competition. I have no problem with what he's doing, as long as it's not an every-game thing. I agree taking the ball to the basket a more, but he is going to find his shot only by shooting the ball.

Still wrong. You're only looking at it from Melo's angle, not the team's. What if people are open like Porzingis and Lopez, do you continue to let Melo put up extra contested heat check shots, even though he's not hot? If I'm his teammates and I'm open for a dunk or lay in and he continues to shoot long bricks, I'm tearing Melo a new as#hole.

Incorrect. I am looking at it from his perspective, but also from the team's perspective in that it is an 82-game season. If Melo has to force a little in the first 4-5 games, it means very little over the course of an 82-game season. We may lose a game or two if he's taking a lot of bad shots, but we will win many more games when he gets his rhythm back and the sooner the better. You don't have to agree with that perspective, but i can tell you i understand the approach. To me he looks like the same player he always has been, his shot just isn't falling. It will come.

Both sides of this argument have good points, but in some ways are a little wrong too. A Shooter does have to shoot himself back into rhythm, there's no doubt about that, and it's true that practice shooting and in-game shooting are totally different, but 27 shots in 25 minutes or whatever it was IS way too much, especially because you don't have the touch at the moment. Plus it's just not the way you want to start the season, by jacking up all those shots and taking away opportunities from your team mates. You can do that here and there down the stretch when you get your shot back, but right at the start it's a bad idea, especially right AFTER a game where you were obviously more willing to share.
This is going to sound crazy, and of course hindsight is usually 20/20, but I'm starting to think that maybe giving Vujacic a blow on the 2nd of a back to back and giving Early the starting spot at the 2 might have been the way to go. Better defense on Teague, pick up the pace. You know Vujacic was tired. He probably hasn't played a back to back in years. Honestly I'm not sure if they do those in the Euroleague during regular season play.

wow ... I thought you only posted cream puff pieces. fair take

Lol are you referring to my criticism of Melo? I never said I wasn't critical of Melo. I never claimed that Melo is perfect. I do like him and appreciate what he brings to this team, but I also recognize that he was flaws as well. It's just the arguments based on his Assist averages that piss me off because people stubbornly fail to acknowledge that he has been surrounded by notoriously streaky and no-so-reliable shooters for the past several years. I mean what the hell are you supposed to do? In my opinion he's lucky his Assist averages weren't lower the past few years when you take that into account.

so when melo had better players/shooters he passed more?

so sick of that silly excuse.

how many assists did he have in season 54?

And the season 54 comparison is tired and lame as well. Who were the better shooters during that season? They were Kidd (until he ran out of gas) and Novak. Novak was coming off the bench and didn't spend much time on the floor with Melo so that scratches out one reliable shooter. And most of Kidd's jump shots were either transition 3's or shots he took when he was wide open because the defense was giving him room because they weren't threatened by him. What I'm saying is using the Assist average as an argument builder is flawed in and of itself because it does not in any way take into account the fact that you are surrounded by notoriously streaky and not-so-reliable shooters. It's a lame argument. It's tired, and it is SO flawed. Oh, and yeah, it's lazy as well.

You know what's even lazier....2.6 assists a game!