holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:Holfresh, getting to the regular season record was on Lebron, Kyrie and Love was feeling good and coming around the last 20 games.

In the playoffs Love went in the first round, Kyrie was done by finals. Lebron's play is largely taken for granted as he has been carrying teams to the finals 5 years in a row!!

Nobody said JR and Shump are talentless slobs, but a team that in Phils first year proved worthy of a tear down, they did so in a year with a draft pick.
KP was not a "Win now" type.
In the old days Dolan would have wanted that or the pick traded on draft day to give Melo and the ticket office a starphuch to sell. Instead, Phil told the world the franchise is more important than Melo.
If we did that with Ewing history could have been much different.

Starphuchers want instant gratification which before the hard salary cap could be obtained. IN the world of parity, we don't have the advantage. When we did, we did not execute it very well.

Nobody likes a tear down and rebuild. It was often debated that many fans would not go for it. Problem is to achieve contention it had to be. Phil might have seen a path to it in his tenure but now admits it might take longer.
That's not arrogance, its keeping it real. If fans can't handle the truth and think Phil was going to bring magic then you took the full brunt of the starphuch literally.

What Phil brings is cred. He has to sell the rebuild. He is trying to sell you to be patient and let KP grow up and develop. Yes, melo is an asset as a player or trade. Free agents don't sign for less money if they jump unless there is a compelling reason. NYC, as great as it has had a bad Knick franchise and until respectable won't attract free agents. Until it has a roster of serviceable players it won't have trade fodder. JR and Shump were not highly valued last year. Bargs had no value. Shump was a decent pick who lived up to his scouting reports. JR was a defective FA when he came and Bargs was a disaster starphuch CAA attempt to help Melo. Bad deals of the past.

Phil had little to work with and provided no miracle starphuchs, but you know not a game has been played so OP slamming the team is premature.

There are zero ramifications for future going after a player like Aldridge, zero!!..Doesn't deter the rebuild..Its a cop out argument..We are maxed out with roles players, what's the difference??..Trying to win games now doesn't take away from trying to win later..Not trying to win now, doesn't mean you will build a better team later..I don't get the argument..If we don't play well now, means we have a better chance to win 10 years from now???..I don't get it..

Phil is a starphuck, Derrick Fisher is a starphuck...Are the Spurs idiots for going after Aldridge?

I think Phil made a calculated decision that it wasn't worth going after LMA when he already had KP6 for the PF spot and could fill the C spot for less and address other needs as well. LMA isn't guaranteed to be the key to us winning a title this year. He couldn't do that with a much better roster in Portland. LMA is a very good player and it would've been a nice get but there's more than one way to get this thing done. Passing on LMA doesn't mean we aren't still on a great path towards building a winning franchise.

Phil put his money on Melo, RoLo, KP6 and Jerian at the core of his new roster. IMO that's not a bad start. Over the next few years we'll get to see how he continues to build the roster from this base he's built. Phil has to get a lot out of his draft picks/UDFA's and young vets in order for this to work. 10 Players 27 or younger is a massive shift for this franchise towards youth.

TEAM ROSTER
NAME	               POS	AGE	HT	WT	2015-2016 SALARY
Kristaps Porzingis	PF	20	7-1	220	$4,131,720
Jerian Grant	        PG	22	6-5	205	$1,572,360
Thanasis Antetokounmpo	SF	23	6-7	215	$525,093
Langston Galloway	PG	23	6-2	200	$845,059
Cleanthony Early	SF	24	6-8	220	$845,059
Derrick Williams	PF	24	6-8	240	$4,000,000
Kyle O'Quinn	        PF	25	6-10	250	$3,750,000
Kevin Seraphin	        PF	25	6-10	278	$2,814,000
Robin Lopez	        C	27	7-0	255	$12,650,000
Lance Thomas	        SF	27	6-8	225	$1,636,842
Arron Afflalo	        SG	29	6-5	215	$8,000,000
Carmelo Anthony	        SF	31	6-8	240	$22,875,000
Sasha Vujacic	        SG	31	6-7	193	$947,276
Lou Amundson	        PF	32	6-9	225	$1,635,476
Jose Calderon	        PG	33	6-3	200	$7,402,812

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:You need a deep roster to win..I thought it would be better for KP if Aldridge were here because he doesn't have the immediate pressure to succeed..Good teams are 3 or 4 deep with good players, the Knicks only think they need one..Amazing...4 years of Melo carrying a team nowhere is enough for me...

It's silly for me to think there isn't a role for KP with Melo and Aldridge..Cleveland is trying to stack the decks with 5 scorers..OKC the same..We are worried about KP getting looks with two guys in the court??..I thought he is the future not the present..

I'm not sure about the concern. KP6 should be able to play right away. The Kid is very smart and skilled enough already. In this offense he should be able to find a comfort zone. If you have him out there with Melo, Afflalo, RoLo and either Jose or Jerian, he should be just fine. He won't have to carry anything. He can just fit in and take what comes to him. Shoot if you're open or Pass if you're not. NO PRESSURE.

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:You need a deep roster to win..I thought it would be better for KP if Aldridge were here because he doesn't have the immediate pressure to succeed..Good teams are 3 or 4 deep with good players, the Knicks only think they need one..Amazing...4 years of Melo carrying a team nowhere is enough for me...

It's silly for me to think there isn't a role for KP with Melo and Aldridge..Cleveland is trying to stack the decks with 5 scorers..OKC the same..We are worried about KP getting looks with two guys in the court??..I thought he is the future not the present..

I'm not sure about the concern. KP6 should be able to play right away. The Kid is very smart and skilled enough already. In this offense he should be able to find a comfort zone. If you have him out there with Melo, Afflalo, RoLo and either Jose or Jerian, he should be just fine. He won't have to carry anything. He can just fit in and take what comes to him. Shoot if you're open or Pass if you're not. NO PRESSURE.

If I have the explain the issues rookies face in the NBA the this convo is pointless..

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:You need a deep roster to win..I thought it would be better for KP if Aldridge were here because he doesn't have the immediate pressure to succeed..Good teams are 3 or 4 deep with good players, the Knicks only think they need one..Amazing...4 years of Melo carrying a team nowhere is enough for me...

It's silly for me to think there isn't a role for KP with Melo and Aldridge..Cleveland is trying to stack the decks with 5 scorers..OKC the same..We are worried about KP getting looks with two guys in the court??..I thought he is the future not the present..

I'm not sure about the concern. KP6 should be able to play right away. The Kid is very smart and skilled enough already. In this offense he should be able to find a comfort zone. If you have him out there with Melo, Afflalo, RoLo and either Jose or Jerian, he should be just fine. He won't have to carry anything. He can just fit in and take what comes to him. Shoot if you're open or Pass if you're not. NO PRESSURE.

If I have the explain the issues rookies face in the NBA the this convo is pointless..

Not all rookies struggle so much that they can't play. Andrew Wiggins had a great rookie season. Jabari Parker was having a solid rookie season. Nicola Mitotic had a good Rookie Season. There were others who were able to contribute. Heck even Langston Galloway was able to contribute for us in his rookie year. No one is saying that KP6 has to be in mid career form in year one.

They all struggle...Look at their numbers..

We have vets and a star player, neither KP nor Jerian would have to carry the team. The Knicks can handle them struggling from time to time. What you seem to be suggesting is that they aren't up to playing in the NBA like other Rookies have done, at an acceptable level for a rookie. We aren't expecting perfection. We only want them to contribute and learn.

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:Holfresh, getting to the regular season record was on Lebron, Kyrie and Love was feeling good and coming around the last 20 games.

In the playoffs Love went in the first round, Kyrie was done by finals. Lebron's play is largely taken for granted as he has been carrying teams to the finals 5 years in a row!!

Nobody said JR and Shump are talentless slobs, but a team that in Phils first year proved worthy of a tear down, they did so in a year with a draft pick.
KP was not a "Win now" type.
In the old days Dolan would have wanted that or the pick traded on draft day to give Melo and the ticket office a starphuch to sell. Instead, Phil told the world the franchise is more important than Melo.
If we did that with Ewing history could have been much different.

Starphuchers want instant gratification which before the hard salary cap could be obtained. IN the world of parity, we don't have the advantage. When we did, we did not execute it very well.

Nobody likes a tear down and rebuild. It was often debated that many fans would not go for it. Problem is to achieve contention it had to be. Phil might have seen a path to it in his tenure but now admits it might take longer.
That's not arrogance, its keeping it real. If fans can't handle the truth and think Phil was going to bring magic then you took the full brunt of the starphuch literally.

What Phil brings is cred. He has to sell the rebuild. He is trying to sell you to be patient and let KP grow up and develop. Yes, melo is an asset as a player or trade. Free agents don't sign for less money if they jump unless there is a compelling reason. NYC, as great as it has had a bad Knick franchise and until respectable won't attract free agents. Until it has a roster of serviceable players it won't have trade fodder. JR and Shump were not highly valued last year. Bargs had no value. Shump was a decent pick who lived up to his scouting reports. JR was a defective FA when he came and Bargs was a disaster starphuch CAA attempt to help Melo. Bad deals of the past.

Phil had little to work with and provided no miracle starphuchs, but you know not a game has been played so OP slamming the team is premature.

There are zero ramifications for future going after a player like Aldridge, zero!!..Doesn't deter the rebuild..Its a cop out argument..We are maxed out with roles players, what's the difference??..Trying to win games now doesn't take away from trying to win later..Not trying to win now, doesn't mean you will build a better team later..I don't get the argument..If we don't play well now, means we have a better chance to win 10 years from now???..I don't get it..

Phil is a starphuck, Derrick Fisher is a starphuck...Are the Spurs idiots for going after Aldridge?

spurs were not idiots and neither was aldridge. aldridge wants to win now. he's thirty years old and has not had the type of success in portland that he wanted, so as a free agent who wants to win and make money, the spurs were an ideal setting for him to close out his career. he no doubt is seeking ways to tighten up his game as well as playing with much headier ballplayers... lillard is just not that guy. and while he is slated for eventually replacing the greatest power forward to ever lace them up, he still has an opportunity to win this coming season and the next. then, with two seasons under his belt, he likely, hopefully, will have learned how to play the right way. and by the way... texas is home for aldridge.

the excuse that aldridge gave-- they drafted for the future with porzingis-- is a bit too facile to be as much of a factor as you seem so desperate to make it. face it: he is in an ideal situation for him in texas and would not have been in an ideal situation in new york.

everything else is sound and fury on your part, signifying nothing.

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:You need a deep roster to win..I thought it would be better for KP if Aldridge were here because he doesn't have the immediate pressure to succeed..Good teams are 3 or 4 deep with good players, the Knicks only think they need one..Amazing...4 years of Melo carrying a team nowhere is enough for me...

It's silly for me to think there isn't a role for KP with Melo and Aldridge..Cleveland is trying to stack the decks with 5 scorers..OKC the same..We are worried about KP getting looks with two guys in the court??..I thought he is the future not the present..

I'm not sure about the concern. KP6 should be able to play right away. The Kid is very smart and skilled enough already. In this offense he should be able to find a comfort zone. If you have him out there with Melo, Afflalo, RoLo and either Jose or Jerian, he should be just fine. He won't have to carry anything. He can just fit in and take what comes to him. Shoot if you're open or Pass if you're not. NO PRESSURE.

If I have the explain the issues rookies face in the NBA the this convo is pointless..

Not all rookies struggle so much that they can't play. Andrew Wiggins had a great rookie season. Jabari Parker was having a solid rookie season. Nicola Mitotic had a good Rookie Season. There were others who were able to contribute. Heck even Langston Galloway was able to contribute for us in his rookie year. No one is saying that KP6 has to be in mid career form in year one.

They all struggle...Look at their numbers..

Do we even need to mention that Rookies struggle??? I mean what is your point exactly? They're rookies. Of course they'll have some issues. No one is suggesting that they won't have some struggles. Why are we going in circles on this crap like you don't know what I mean. It doesn't mean that they can't contribute. Gallo played and had his moments. KP and Jerian have more talent than he does, so why can't they play at an acceptable level for rookies?

We have vets and a star player, neither KP nor Jerian would have to carry the team. The Knicks can handle them struggling from time to time. What you seem to be suggesting is that they aren't up to playing in the NBA like other Rookies have done, at an acceptable level for a rookie. We aren't expecting perfection. We only want them to contribute and learn.

Like I said, pointless...

I still don't get what you're point is. Every year there are Rookies who play meaningful roles for their teams. We all know that they will have ups and downs and still need development. You have to put things in perspective. Rookies are only expected to perform at a certain level for the most part. No one is suggesting that we would expect more from our rookies than is reasonable to what other quality rookies have done.

IMO KP6 and Jerian are both more talented than Gallo who had a nice rookie season. If KP6 and Jerian can contribute at the level of their current ability I see no reason why they wouldn't be able to help this team this year as rookies.

Langston Galloway - PPG	  APG	RPG	PER
                    11.8  3.3	4.2	12.36
Elfrid Payton     - PPG	  APG	RPG	PER
                    8.9	  6.5	4.3	13.87
Zach Lavine       - PPG	  APG	RPG	PER
                    10.1  3.6	2.8	11.31
Marcus Smart      - PPG	  APG	RPG	PER
                    7.8	  3.1	3.3	11.02
Top Rookie Performers
Andrew Wiggins - PPG	APG	RPG	PER
                 16.9	2.1	4.6	13.97
Nikola Mirotic - PPG	RPG	BLKPG	PER
                 10.2	4.9	0.7	17.93
Jordan Clarkson - PPG	APG	RPG	PER
                  11.9	3.5	3.2	16.94
Jabari Parker  - PPG	APG	RPG	PER
                 12.3	1.7	5.5	14.60
Nerlens Noel   - PPG	RPG	BLKPG	PER
                 9.9	8.1	1.9	15.03

please continue to look at ws48.

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:You need a deep roster to win..I thought it would be better for KP if Aldridge were here because he doesn't have the immediate pressure to succeed..Good teams are 3 or 4 deep with good players, the Knicks only think they need one..Amazing...4 years of Melo carrying a team nowhere is enough for me...

It's silly for me to think there isn't a role for KP with Melo and Aldridge..Cleveland is trying to stack the decks with 5 scorers..OKC the same..We are worried about KP getting looks with two guys in the court??..I thought he is the future not the present..

I'm not sure about the concern. KP6 should be able to play right away. The Kid is very smart and skilled enough already. In this offense he should be able to find a comfort zone. If you have him out there with Melo, Afflalo, RoLo and either Jose or Jerian, he should be just fine. He won't have to carry anything. He can just fit in and take what comes to him. Shoot if you're open or Pass if you're not. NO PRESSURE.

If I have the explain the issues rookies face in the NBA the this convo is pointless..

Not all rookies struggle so much that they can't play. Andrew Wiggins had a great rookie season. Jabari Parker was having a solid rookie season. Nicola Mitotic had a good Rookie Season. There were others who were able to contribute. Heck even Langston Galloway was able to contribute for us in his rookie year. No one is saying that KP6 has to be in mid career form in year one.

They all struggle...Look at their numbers..

Do we even need to mention that Rookies struggle??? I mean what is your point exactly? They're rookies. Of course they'll have some issues. No one is suggesting that they won't have some struggles. Why are we going in circles on this crap like you don't know what I mean. It doesn't mean that they can't contribute. Gallo played and had his moments. KP and Jerian have more talent than he does, so why can't they play at an acceptable level for rookies?

We have vets and a star player, neither KP nor Jerian would have to carry the team. The Knicks can handle them struggling from time to time. What you seem to be suggesting is that they aren't up to playing in the NBA like other Rookies have done, at an acceptable level for a rookie. We aren't expecting perfection. We only want them to contribute and learn.

Like I said, pointless...

I still don't get what you're point is. Every year there are Rookies who play meaningful roles for their teams. We all know that they will have ups and downs and still need development. You have to put things in perspective. Rookies are only expected to perform at a certain level for the most part. No one is suggesting that we would expect more from our rookies than is reasonable to what other quality rookies have done.

IMO KP6 and Jerian are both more talented than Gallo who had a nice rookie season. If KP6 and Jerian can contribute at the level of their current ability I see no reason why they wouldn't be able to help this team this year as rookies.

Langston Galloway - PPG	  APG	RPG	PER
                    11.8  3.3	4.2	12.36
Elfrid Payton     - PPG	  APG	RPG	PER
                    8.9	  6.5	4.3	13.87
Zach Lavine       - PPG	  APG	RPG	PER
                    10.1  3.6	2.8	11.31
Marcus Smart      - PPG	  APG	RPG	PER
                    7.8	  3.1	3.3	11.02
Top Rookie Performers
Andrew Wiggins - PPG	APG	RPG	PER
                 16.9	2.1	4.6	13.97
Nikola Mirotic - PPG	RPG	BLKPG	PER
                 10.2	4.9	0.7	17.93
Jordan Clarkson - PPG	APG	RPG	PER
                  11.9	3.5	3.2	16.94
Jabari Parker  - PPG	APG	RPG	PER
                 12.3	1.7	5.5	14.60
Nerlens Noel   - PPG	RPG	BLKPG	PER
                 9.9	8.1	1.9	15.03

My goals are a tab bit higher than fielding a 17 win or a 25 win team...I think that's the point you keep missing...

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:You need a deep roster to win..I thought it would be better for KP if Aldridge were here because he doesn't have the immediate pressure to succeed..Good teams are 3 or 4 deep with good players, the Knicks only think they need one..Amazing...4 years of Melo carrying a team nowhere is enough for me...

It's silly for me to think there isn't a role for KP with Melo and Aldridge..Cleveland is trying to stack the decks with 5 scorers..OKC the same..We are worried about KP getting looks with two guys in the court??..I thought he is the future not the present..

I'm not sure about the concern. KP6 should be able to play right away. The Kid is very smart and skilled enough already. In this offense he should be able to find a comfort zone. If you have him out there with Melo, Afflalo, RoLo and either Jose or Jerian, he should be just fine. He won't have to carry anything. He can just fit in and take what comes to him. Shoot if you're open or Pass if you're not. NO PRESSURE.

If I have the explain the issues rookies face in the NBA the this convo is pointless..

Not all rookies struggle so much that they can't play. Andrew Wiggins had a great rookie season. Jabari Parker was having a solid rookie season. Nicola Mitotic had a good Rookie Season. There were others who were able to contribute. Heck even Langston Galloway was able to contribute for us in his rookie year. No one is saying that KP6 has to be in mid career form in year one.

They all struggle...Look at their numbers..

Do we even need to mention that Rookies struggle??? I mean what is your point exactly? They're rookies. Of course they'll have some issues. No one is suggesting that they won't have some struggles. Why are we going in circles on this crap like you don't know what I mean. It doesn't mean that they can't contribute. Gallo played and had his moments. KP and Jerian have more talent than he does, so why can't they play at an acceptable level for rookies?

We have vets and a star player, neither KP nor Jerian would have to carry the team. The Knicks can handle them struggling from time to time. What you seem to be suggesting is that they aren't up to playing in the NBA like other Rookies have done, at an acceptable level for a rookie. We aren't expecting perfection. We only want them to contribute and learn.

Like I said, pointless...

I still don't get what you're point is. Every year there are Rookies who play meaningful roles for their teams. We all know that they will have ups and downs and still need development. You have to put things in perspective. Rookies are only expected to perform at a certain level for the most part. No one is suggesting that we would expect more from our rookies than is reasonable to what other quality rookies have done.

IMO KP6 and Jerian are both more talented than Gallo who had a nice rookie season. If KP6 and Jerian can contribute at the level of their current ability I see no reason why they wouldn't be able to help this team this year as rookies.

Langston Galloway - PPG	  APG	RPG	PER
                    11.8  3.3	4.2	12.36
Elfrid Payton     - PPG	  APG	RPG	PER
                    8.9	  6.5	4.3	13.87
Zach Lavine       - PPG	  APG	RPG	PER
                    10.1  3.6	2.8	11.31
Marcus Smart      - PPG	  APG	RPG	PER
                    7.8	  3.1	3.3	11.02
Top Rookie Performers
Andrew Wiggins - PPG	APG	RPG	PER
                 16.9	2.1	4.6	13.97
Nikola Mirotic - PPG	RPG	BLKPG	PER
                 10.2	4.9	0.7	17.93
Jordan Clarkson - PPG	APG	RPG	PER
                  11.9	3.5	3.2	16.94
Jabari Parker  - PPG	APG	RPG	PER
                 12.3	1.7	5.5	14.60
Nerlens Noel   - PPG	RPG	BLKPG	PER
                 9.9	8.1	1.9	15.03

My goals are a tab bit higher than fielding a 17 win or a 25 win team...I think that's the point you keep missing...

We're not expecting to win big because of our rookies. It's well known that the impact on wins from Rookies is not high in most cases.
However, if we can get good contributions from our rookies they can at least be functional parts of the team this year and hopefully make progress over the next few seasons.

IMO it's not just about this coming season and has never been about just this coming season. When you have as many young players mixed in as we do, you're gonna be looking for growth from the kids and stability from the vets. This team mainly needs to make significant progress this year. We know it's not a title team yet. LMA would not have made this a title team either. It might have been a better team right away, but it also would've been weird having LMA take up the same spot that KP6 was trying to play at $21 mil per. LMA going to the Spurs is fine for them since they don't have a top draft pick at PF that they're trying to develop.

We may not agree with Phil's assessment of passing on LMA because of the presence of KP6, but that was the decision Phil made and it's clear that it was a long term decision.

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:You need a deep roster to win..I thought it would be better for KP if Aldridge were here because he doesn't have the immediate pressure to succeed..Good teams are 3 or 4 deep with good players, the Knicks only think they need one..Amazing...4 years of Melo carrying a team nowhere is enough for me...

It's silly for me to think there isn't a role for KP with Melo and Aldridge..Cleveland is trying to stack the decks with 5 scorers..OKC the same..We are worried about KP getting looks with two guys in the court??..I thought he is the future not the present..

I'm not sure about the concern. KP6 should be able to play right away. The Kid is very smart and skilled enough already. In this offense he should be able to find a comfort zone. If you have him out there with Melo, Afflalo, RoLo and either Jose or Jerian, he should be just fine. He won't have to carry anything. He can just fit in and take what comes to him. Shoot if you're open or Pass if you're not. NO PRESSURE.

If I have the explain the issues rookies face in the NBA the this convo is pointless..

Not all rookies struggle so much that they can't play. Andrew Wiggins had a great rookie season. Jabari Parker was having a solid rookie season. Nicola Mitotic had a good Rookie Season. There were others who were able to contribute. Heck even Langston Galloway was able to contribute for us in his rookie year. No one is saying that KP6 has to be in mid career form in year one.

They all struggle...Look at their numbers..

Do we even need to mention that Rookies struggle??? I mean what is your point exactly? They're rookies. Of course they'll have some issues. No one is suggesting that they won't have some struggles. Why are we going in circles on this crap like you don't know what I mean. It doesn't mean that they can't contribute. Gallo played and had his moments. KP and Jerian have more talent than he does, so why can't they play at an acceptable level for rookies?

We have vets and a star player, neither KP nor Jerian would have to carry the team. The Knicks can handle them struggling from time to time. What you seem to be suggesting is that they aren't up to playing in the NBA like other Rookies have done, at an acceptable level for a rookie. We aren't expecting perfection. We only want them to contribute and learn.

Like I said, pointless...

I still don't get what you're point is. Every year there are Rookies who play meaningful roles for their teams. We all know that they will have ups and downs and still need development. You have to put things in perspective. Rookies are only expected to perform at a certain level for the most part. No one is suggesting that we would expect more from our rookies than is reasonable to what other quality rookies have done.

IMO KP6 and Jerian are both more talented than Gallo who had a nice rookie season. If KP6 and Jerian can contribute at the level of their current ability I see no reason why they wouldn't be able to help this team this year as rookies.

Langston Galloway - PPG	  APG	RPG	PER
                    11.8  3.3	4.2	12.36
Elfrid Payton     - PPG	  APG	RPG	PER
                    8.9	  6.5	4.3	13.87
Zach Lavine       - PPG	  APG	RPG	PER
                    10.1  3.6	2.8	11.31
Marcus Smart      - PPG	  APG	RPG	PER
                    7.8	  3.1	3.3	11.02
Top Rookie Performers
Andrew Wiggins - PPG	APG	RPG	PER
                 16.9	2.1	4.6	13.97
Nikola Mirotic - PPG	RPG	BLKPG	PER
                 10.2	4.9	0.7	17.93
Jordan Clarkson - PPG	APG	RPG	PER
                  11.9	3.5	3.2	16.94
Jabari Parker  - PPG	APG	RPG	PER
                 12.3	1.7	5.5	14.60
Nerlens Noel   - PPG	RPG	BLKPG	PER
                 9.9	8.1	1.9	15.03

My goals are a tab bit higher than fielding a 17 win or a 25 win team...I think that's the point you keep missing...

You're assuming that the team will only win 25 games. I see you fully bought into the ESPN projection. While it's possible that this projection could come true, I don't believe that it will. If Phil had made no improvements at all I think the team could win 25-30 games with a healthy Melo. With the improvements and a healthy Melo I expect them to be in the hunt for a playoff spot.

We're not expecting to win big because of our rookies. It's well known that the impact on wins from Rookies is not high in most cases.
However, if we can get good contributions from our rookies they can at least be functional parts of the team this year and hopefully make progress over the next few seasons.

IMO it's not just about this coming season and has never been about just this coming season. When you have as many young players mixed in as we do, you're gonna be looking for growth from the kids and stability from the vets. This team mainly needs to make significant progress this year. We know it's not a title team yet. LMA would not have made this a title team either. It might have been a better team right away, but it also would've been weird having LMA take up the same spot that KP6 was trying to play at $21 mil per. LMA going to the Spurs is fine for them since they don't have a top draft pick at PF that they're trying to develop.

We may not agree with Phil's assessment of passing on LMA because of the presence of KP6, but that was the decision Phil made and it's clear that it was a long term decision.

Bringing in a guy like Aldridge has zero impact on the long term goals of the Knicks...A deal with Aldridge would runs concurrent with Melo's deal which will be off the books when KP is 23 years old...I doubt KP will be setting the world on fire before then..In the mean time we could be an attractive destination with two major pieces like Melo and Adridge while KP and others develop...Instead we are blowing cap space on guys that have no impact whatsoever...Williams, Lopez and O'Quinn are scrubs...

Nalod wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:Holfresh, getting to the regular season record was on Lebron, Kyrie and Love was feeling good and coming around the last 20 games.

In the playoffs Love went in the first round, Kyrie was done by finals. Lebron's play is largely taken for granted as he has been carrying teams to the finals 5 years in a row!!

Nobody said JR and Shump are talentless slobs, but a team that in Phils first year proved worthy of a tear down, they did so in a year with a draft pick.
KP was not a "Win now" type.
In the old days Dolan would have wanted that or the pick traded on draft day to give Melo and the ticket office a starphuch to sell. Instead, Phil told the world the franchise is more important than Melo.
If we did that with Ewing history could have been much different.

Starphuchers want instant gratification which before the hard salary cap could be obtained. IN the world of parity, we don't have the advantage. When we did, we did not execute it very well.

Nobody likes a tear down and rebuild. It was often debated that many fans would not go for it. Problem is to achieve contention it had to be. Phil might have seen a path to it in his tenure but now admits it might take longer.
That's not arrogance, its keeping it real. If fans can't handle the truth and think Phil was going to bring magic then you took the full brunt of the starphuch literally.

What Phil brings is cred. He has to sell the rebuild. He is trying to sell you to be patient and let KP grow up and develop. Yes, melo is an asset as a player or trade. Free agents don't sign for less money if they jump unless there is a compelling reason. NYC, as great as it has had a bad Knick franchise and until respectable won't attract free agents. Until it has a roster of serviceable players it won't have trade fodder. JR and Shump were not highly valued last year. Bargs had no value. Shump was a decent pick who lived up to his scouting reports. JR was a defective FA when he came and Bargs was a disaster starphuch CAA attempt to help Melo. Bad deals of the past.

Phil had little to work with and provided no miracle starphuchs, but you know not a game has been played so OP slamming the team is premature.

There are zero ramifications for future going after a player like Aldridge, zero!!..Doesn't deter the rebuild..Its a cop out argument..We are maxed out with roles players, what's the difference??..Trying to win games now doesn't take away from trying to win later..Not trying to win now, doesn't mean you will build a better team later..I don't get the argument..If we don't play well now, means we have a better chance to win 10 years from now???..I don't get it..

Phil is a starphuck, Derrick Fisher is a starphuck...Are the Spurs idiots for going after Aldridge?

spurs were not idiots and neither was aldridge. aldridge wants to win now. he's thirty years old and has not had the type of success in portland that he wanted, so as a free agent who wants to win and make money, the spurs were an ideal setting for him to close out his career. he no doubt is seeking ways to tighten up his game as well as playing with much headier ballplayers... lillard is just not that guy. and while he is slated for eventually replacing the greatest power forward to ever lace them up, he still has an opportunity to win this coming season and the next. then, with two seasons under his belt, he likely, hopefully, will have learned how to play the right way. and by the way... texas is home for aldridge.

the excuse that aldridge gave-- they drafted for the future with porzingis-- is a bit too facile to be as much of a factor as you seem so desperate to make it. face it: he is in an ideal situation for him in texas and would not have been in an ideal situation in new york.

everything else is sound and fury on your part, signifying nothing.

So you are saying you know Aldridge better than he knows himself..He was lying to himself and us...And Phil in his infinite wisdom, knows all this, and decided to nip the discussion in the bud because he didn't want to be turned away, so he did it first?..Or we as Knick fans should never dream of attracting a player of Aldridge ilk...

I would also submit you have no clue what would work and what wouldn't work anywhere...You have demonstrated as much...

i am going by the context of the situation, which for rational people informs what people say and do.

you seem to be doing the opposite... creating context out of what is said.

if you look at aldridge's game as it is now, there is no better place for him to take it to the next level than in san antonio. and so far as jackson is concerned, i think the best move for the knicks medium and longterm is doing what he did.

but lets look at it this way: the triangle in new york requires better passers in the post than aldridge is. by contrast, you have one of the greatest passing big men/playmakers in the game to learn from.

which is more appealing? context

Humor me, explain to me why is it better to blow out our cap space with role players like O'Quinn, Lopez and Williams than a player like Aldridge???

Have we not done this already this summer a few times?

yes...Banging JR every chance you get doesn't evoke the same questions nor seems to get old...