The list of Knicks players that have improved and lived up to their potential in the triangle - 0

The list of Knicks players who have flamed out in the triagle - everyone who is not on the team anymore and a few that still are

maybe a better comparison is Thanasis/dWill. Have those plays helped Thanasis's offensive game?

If Thanasis played for Sac, would he suck because they didn't use him right?

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TPercy wrote:The more I look at his stats the more I hate this signing.

I think this is a case of looking at the talents that a player has and seeing a possible fit in the system. You can't really base everything off how a player looked in other systems. The Triangle is a completely different animal. The kind of guys that Phil has had on his rosters sometimes don't look like they would make much sense, but in his system they actually work.

Phil wants more actual production from the off ball movement. Those cuts to the basket need to be more productive. A guy like DWill is perfect for that particular role. He's a guy you want with the ball 2 steps and in from the hoop. He'll get a lot of that in the natural flow of the Triangle. As teams are paying attention to other scorers a guy like DWill can be a real problem for teams in the paint area. It may not work but there's a good chance that DWill can find a clear role that fits his strengths in the Triangle.

He's like a more talented version of what LT and Amundson bring. Energy guy that you don't have to call plays for. He just keeps moving and lurking behind the defense. With guards like Jose and Jerian, they should be able to hit him consistently for easy scores.

its all peaches

If you didn't have anything to contribute you could've kept that comment to yourself.

DWill is still only 24. He does have talent and has shown flashes of what he can do when he's focused. There's still a chance for him to put it together and give a more consistent effort. If he can apply himself to giving a more consistent effort he can realize some of his potential. He wouldn't be the 1st player to improve after being a disappointment early on in his career. This is a good system for him to find a role and get his career on track for once.

we all understand the if's. No need for the constant puppet show.

I make many substantive posts on this forum and I resent the notion that I only provide some kind of "Puppet Show". WTF do you bring to the table most of the time? Your contributions in this thread are more indicative of a lack of effort. Stop with the LAZY ASS posts and insults and actually contribute or STFU!

ANYWAY! Someone asked about the cuts for PF's in the Triangle. Here are just a few:

TripleThreat wrote:

nixluva wrote:I don't understand why you would think that the Triangle offense is the issue. It's obvious many of the players we had were the problem, which is why Phil has brought in so many new players. No system can work if the players aren't dedicated to mastering it. You also have to have some talent.

.... You aren't refuting what I post. You merely don't like the way I post which is petty.

No one here is saying the Triangle Offense is the problem with Derrick Williams, they are saying Derrick Williams is the problem with Derrick Williams.

He's a player who has a poor fundamental skill set. He's a ball stopper. He's just not a very smart basketball player, he doesn't make good decisions and he consistently makes the same mistakes over and over again.

But you just don't give a damn.

If the Knicks had not traded JR Smith and Phil Jackson said something half nice about him in the press, you'd be singing JR Smith's potential right now. Saying we are all pessimists and how you just have to give the guy more of a chance to acclimate to the Knicks.

But since he's off the roster, he's an ******* now. A can't try/won't try/POS and a questionable "talent"

If Phil Jackson cut Derrick Williams tomorrow, you'd also call him an *******. Except today, the rest of us don't understand the Triangle, "we just don't get it" and that must be the problem, clearly it's not that most of the rest of the league wanted nothing to do with Derrick Williams because, as stated before, HE IS A FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED PLAYER - WHICH IS WHY HE WAS AVAILABLE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

If you have fundamental flaws in your game, you will STRUGGLE IN ANY SYSTEM. Which is EXACTLY what Derrick Williams has done his entire career.

Derrick Williams is a ball stopping player who just isn't that bright on the court and is a defensive liability.

Melo is a ball stopping player who just isn't that bright on the court and is a defensive liability.

The team cannot hope to hide TWO of these types of players. Meaning if both on the court at the same time, the team will have little hope to win because defensively they are going to get roasted.

The Knicks are not benching Melo to give DW looks and minutes. And DW has no chance right now to play SF.

Can't help the team or get the looks you are talking about if you aren't getting on the court. Certainly not going to get the mass of transition looks you want for DW when he's going to walk onto the court and turn the Knicks into a defensive sieve.

People dislike how you post because you are an *******.

Let me explain. You don't have an actual opinion on any player on the Knicks. Your opinion is if Phil Jackson wants a player, then you'll ignore any of his flaws and only talk about what you think he can do, even if it diametrically opposes TEAM FIT and playing actual TEAM DEFENSE and TEAM BASKETBALL. A small handful of plays does not make any player an asset to helping the team win. If Phil Jackson dumps that player tomorrow, then you'll say that player wasn't dedicated, was stupid, didn't try, and good riddance to him. You'd get a lot less flak if you showed any kind of objectivity ( i.e. whether the guy was a Knick or not or endorsed by Phil Jackson or not, that Player X can do this but can't do that and be realistic about it)

The part where you are an ******* is you refuse any kind of objectivity, deny any kind of logic about actually how the TEAM WINS, not just how one player gets his, then you call it optimism and then ride hard on your fallback, calling everyone else stupid because clearly they don't "get it" but that you do.

You create volume, you don't create actual substance. Which ironically is what typically comes out of an *******.

are you now going to go after dk7th and tkf for their single mindedness = "melo hate"? i dont think it is any different than "phil love".

TPercy wrote:Ah so overplays and screen and rolls. I didn't really see a whole lot of those during the season, but whenever we are doing the lob overplayed it will be on d will to know where he has to be. Problem is that he has pretty low ball IQ and this is a somewhat new system to him. Stump and Jr were both really good passers and perpetrators yet it was their poor mentality and basketball IQ that got the better of them.

OF course like anyone DWill is going to need some time to learn a new system. I disagree that he'd not have enough BB IQ to take advantage of Overplays and Screen and Rolls.
We wouldn't be asking DWill to do things that don't already come naturally to him. The Triangle has more cuts to the basket than the offenses he's been playing in and that happens to be one of his biggest strengths!!!

It just so happens that DWill is good at taking advantage of his defender being distracted. It's one of the things that he's REALLY good at. That's how he gets many of his baseline dunks in the Half Court along with PnR where he can get a running start at the basket. If he has a lane to attack the basket from the Elbow in, he will drive to the basket because that's what he does naturally as a player already.

The Triangle will Simplify things for DWill and make his role much more clear and less random.

blkexec wrote:The problem is not DWills basketball IQ. If he didn't have any IQ for the game, he wouldn't have made it all the way to the 2nd pick. There are plenty of players with his skill set that didn't get drafted. And those guys may have low basketball IQ. But DWill, along with JR and Shump, it's not their IQ that hurt them, they just play on instincts. Players that are instinctive, and used to playing basketball without using their brains, will not adapt well to the triangle. JR and Shump's game just doesn't fit what Phil is trying to do. But their basketball IQ is higher than the average street baller.

The question is, can DWill understand when he can play on instincts (fast breaks, steals, etc...) and when he should play in the triangle system (half court, crunch time, etc...)

I'm guilty as well, saying these guys don't have the basketball IQ to understand the triangle. It's not that. They choose not to adapt their game, and simply continue to play on instincts. This is why Phil likes only 1 superstar or 2, that plays on instincts.....And the rest are role players that are willing to learn and play in the triangle. But when you have JR, Shump type players that are very instinctive, they only know how to play one way. Otherwise, their production will not equal their target salary.

But if DWill ever learns the triangle, he will be a beast. We all should thank George Carl for reviving him. I think he was on his way out of the NBA, before Carl came on board. Now he's in a system where he's forced to make calculated decisions, instead of dribbling the ball until the shot clock goes out, like most instinctive athletic and multi skilled players (which is DWill).

This is why I like putting a guy like DWill in this system. For one thing there's very little room for a Forward to just wing it and do whatever. The way they're taught in this system is very specific roles and I think that kind of structure will help DWill to focus his talent in the right direction. Of course he has to WANT to learn and I have no reason to think he's not going to try. Once he sees how much easier it will be for him to score and also set up his teammates I think he's gonna like being in this system.

The plays I showed above are just a sample of the kinds of things he'll be asked to do and I think it will help him be more efficient. The Triangle is harder for a guard IMO. Especially a guard that likes to freelance more. The C and PF have the most simplified role in the Triangle. I don't see it as a tough learning curve for bigs in this system. Not if the player applies himself to learning his role. It's not like flashing to the Elbow is tough or making a drop off pass to a cutting guard is so hard. He's gonna get TONS or REPS doing the same things over and over. Hopefully he can make the transition.

I also think he can be a more versatile player if he can continue to refine his Corner 3pt shot, since there are times when he'd be rotating to that spot in the motion of the Triangle. Other Knicks Forwards have struggled with that shot, namely Jason Smith, Lance Thomas, Acy etc. It would be just another way to create space if he can be a threat from that spot.

Williams seems unlikely to ever be a star, but he may work out in a role where he just needs to provide energy and be a threat in the corners (since leaving Minnesota, he's hit 40% of his corner threes).