holfresh wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:Mudiay is certainly a nice prospect and I would have liked that pick. Knowing what we know about Porzingis now, though, I don't see how you pass him up. I disagree with your statement "We needed a PG and an NBA ready player" - why did we need that? reality check - this team isn't going to win the NBA finals any time soon.

the Knicks needed the highest upside and to swing for the fences, and a 7'3 athlete who already has a picture-perfect jumper was the highest upside at pick 4 and arguably in the entire draft.

The reason you wanted an NBA ready player is that Melo is in his prime..Mudiay, Melo and the FA pieces added are a playoff team..

Think beyond Melo for once. Melo + Mudiay + say Robin Lopez makes the playoffs at say 42-40 as a 6th seed....SO WHAT!

You gotta look at the big picture. Porzingas and Grant if they pan out can make the Knicks competitive for years to come. Melo is 31 and just had major knee surgery, his window is closing fast, and no one in FA is coming to play with him no matter what anybody here thinks. Not Lamarcus, not Love, not Monroe, not Deandre...none of the above wanted to be here.

Time to "win from within" meaning work with our homegrown picks and establish a future with some continuity.

Forget Melo's time and prime, it's past already. Don't be so short sighted, separate yourself from the name on the jersey and root for the jersey instead...

Picking Mudiay is just like picking KP..Mudiay is the future and a franchise type player right now..Mudiay can potentially be better than Melo..This is not about Melo..

i dont remember you mentioning mudiay before. I remember you mentioning okafor which i understand since he was considered by most the best player in the draft. I think mudiay will be good but im not sure about frachise player. Either way its gonna take time

I didn't see Mudiay play at all..You can only appreciate his game if you see him play..If I had the war chest that MSG had, I can bet you I would have been in China a few weeks looking up this kid..I would have game video of all his games..He is a game player..Not a workout video guy..

i noticed a couple of things from your highlight package of him, one that he is rather ambidextrous (which is crucial) and two is that he enjoys making crosscourt passes. i think with proper scouting and coaching at the nba level and not with summer league semi-pros that defenses will be able to have an effect on his game.

it is interesting that he likes to create contact just like melo like to create contact. i wonder how well that will serve him as a rookie and young player. from the box scores it also seems he turns the ball over a bunch. is he a good free throw shooter?

I think there's a tendency to underrate Jerian as a player. He's much closer to the top of the guards in this draft than some are giving him credit for. It's all because he's older, so they give D'Angelo and Mudiay extra credit even tho they still have to actually prove what they will be. There's far less guess work about Jerian. Neither Russell nor Mudiay are substantially better passing or athletically. Jerian is a solid shooter and also gets to the hoop at a high level. Then Phil stashed another Big. I love what Phil did in this draft.

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Really? His #s haven't looked that impressive. I don't think any of the first round picks have looked great, though Towns, Stein, and Kaminsky have shown some promise.

Yeah, he is that good..You have to see the game..He is the best player on the court..He can't shoot but it doesn't stop him from excelling at everything else..His problem is that he gets upset and frustrated at mates because they can't keep up and don't expect his passes..The commentators, particularly David Aldridge was giggling all night that he fell to the 7th spot..

The thing is, you won't be able to get a good feel for him in a workout..You have to see him play..Stein, Kaminsky etc are not in his league..He is a franchise player..It's understood that he will be starting day one in Denver and right now it's probably his team..

He looks like Pearl Washington playing at Syracuse is the best way to describe it..Only thing is he is big, quick and athletic..

BigSm00th wrote:Mudiay is certainly a nice prospect and I would have liked that pick. Knowing what we know about Porzingis now, though, I don't see how you pass him up. I disagree with your statement "We needed a PG and an NBA ready player" - why did we need that? reality check - this team isn't going to win the NBA finals any time soon.

the Knicks needed the highest upside and to swing for the fences, and a 7'3 athlete who already has a picture-perfect jumper was the highest upside at pick 4 and arguably in the entire draft.

blkexec wrote:Why does it feel like knicks on this site.....should gloat over other draft picks....and cant be excited with their own picks?

Because Mudiay, Willy Cauley-Stein, and Justise Winslow are win now prospects!!!

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:KP + Grant > Mudiay

He is how u know that's BS...Denver will be Mudiay's team day one..KP and Grant won't start..

With as much holes the Knicks had, the addition of Grant in the Hardaway solidified the 2 selections as plugging gaping holes in both the frontcourt and the backcourt for years to come. Mudiay as nice as it would've been, can't play Power Forward also.

It was the right move. 2 positions when we needed many, was a coup. This is bigger than starting on opening night, this about the long term future for the Knicks beyond Melo.

Don't be so butthurt over it.

Mudiay is a franchise player..Mudiay could potentially be better than Melo..This isn't about Melo, it's about finding the next franchise player for the Knicks..And let's talk basketball and your view on player skill..No need for the immature name calling..U have a kid now rite?

Yup I do. Baby girl, 4 months.

Sorry if I come across as frank sometimes, I'm trying to be as level headed as possible but also getting my point across at the same time.

Mudiay > Melo is debatable. If he ever develops a jumper, then yes he can exceed Melo because he puts up numbers across the board.

No team won't honestly know what their draft picks are until a couple years, not even Towns, Russell, Okafor or Mudiay.

If KP + Grant crack the starting lineup at some point this season, it would be greater than having just Mudiay in the backcourt.

Say Mudiay = 2 points and say KP and Grant are equal to 1.5 points each.

1.5 + 1.5 = 3.0 > 2.0 points. 2 really good players is still better than 1 great player at 1 position. Golden State proved this and so did San Antonio.

If you think Mudiay can potentially be better than Melo then he is a no brainer pick at 4..That's my point..

Mudiay potentially being better than Melo isn't great though. Melo is a one dimensional volume scorer, hasn't averaged more than 3 assist, hasn't cracked the golden averages like Durant in his lifetime of 50% 40% 3PT, 90% FT. Melo isn't a generational talent or player.

Please see beyond Melo, he isn't as good as you prop him up to be.

Wait until Mudiay can hit a jumper first, then once he's consistent compare to his contemporaries at his position like Wall, Paul, Lilliard, Curry, Westbrook, etc..

Yeah right..Melo is our best rebounder and can flat out score..Melo isn't one dimensional..If Mudiay hits his jumpers he is an all star and one of the best players in the league..

That's the thing holfresh. Being our best rebounder isn't that good.

Melo's averaged 6 rebounds for his career which is around average for a small forward. Larry Bird averaged 10 boards a game in his career. Julius Erving 8.5 rebounds a game. Lebron 7 boards a game. Even Shawn Marion averaged 8.7 rebounds for his career.

Being Melo at 6'8 230 with any amount of athleticism you should luck into at least 6 boards. He's not great at rebounding, period.

It took John Wall until about year 4 or 5 to consistently hit the 3 pointer teams were giving him(finally cracking 30% 3PT).

Mudiay will have work like he's never worked before to achieve a consistent jumper. We shall see.

Melo averages 7 boards per since being a Knick..last 4.5 years..His career average is closer to 7 not 6..

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:KP + Grant > Mudiay

He is how u know that's BS...Denver will be Mudiay's team day one..KP and Grant won't start..

With as much holes the Knicks had, the addition of Grant in the Hardaway solidified the 2 selections as plugging gaping holes in both the frontcourt and the backcourt for years to come. Mudiay as nice as it would've been, can't play Power Forward also.

It was the right move. 2 positions when we needed many, was a coup. This is bigger than starting on opening night, this about the long term future for the Knicks beyond Melo.

Don't be so butthurt over it.

Mudiay is a franchise player..Mudiay could potentially be better than Melo..This isn't about Melo, it's about finding the next franchise player for the Knicks..And let's talk basketball and your view on player skill..No need for the immature name calling..U have a kid now rite?

Yup I do. Baby girl, 4 months.

Sorry if I come across as frank sometimes, I'm trying to be as level headed as possible but also getting my point across at the same time.

Mudiay > Melo is debatable. If he ever develops a jumper, then yes he can exceed Melo because he puts up numbers across the board.

No team won't honestly know what their draft picks are until a couple years, not even Towns, Russell, Okafor or Mudiay.

If KP + Grant crack the starting lineup at some point this season, it would be greater than having just Mudiay in the backcourt.

Say Mudiay = 2 points and say KP and Grant are equal to 1.5 points each.

1.5 + 1.5 = 3.0 > 2.0 points. 2 really good players is still better than 1 great player at 1 position. Golden State proved this and so did San Antonio.

If you think Mudiay can potentially be better than Melo then he is a no brainer pick at 4..That's my point..

Mudiay potentially being better than Melo isn't great though. Melo is a one dimensional volume scorer, hasn't averaged more than 3 assist, hasn't cracked the golden averages like Durant in his lifetime of 50% 40% 3PT, 90% FT. Melo isn't a generational talent or player.

Please see beyond Melo, he isn't as good as you prop him up to be.

Wait until Mudiay can hit a jumper first, then once he's consistent compare to his contemporaries at his position like Wall, Paul, Lilliard, Curry, Westbrook, etc..

Yeah right..Melo is our best rebounder and can flat out score..Melo isn't one dimensional..If Mudiay hits his jumpers he is an all star and one of the best players in the league..

That's the thing holfresh. Being our best rebounder isn't that good.

Melo's averaged 6 rebounds for his career which is around average for a small forward. Larry Bird averaged 10 boards a game in his career. Julius Erving 8.5 rebounds a game. Lebron 7 boards a game. Even Shawn Marion averaged 8.7 rebounds for his career.

Being Melo at 6'8 230 with any amount of athleticism you should luck into at least 6 boards. He's not great at rebounding, period.

It took John Wall until about year 4 or 5 to consistently hit the 3 pointer teams were giving him(finally cracking 30% 3PT).

Mudiay will have work like he's never worked before to achieve a consistent jumper. We shall see.

Melo averages 7 boards per since being a Knick..last 4.5 years..His career average is closer to 7 not 6..

SO. 7 is not great. Most decent small forwards average 6 or 7. Not really helping your argument.

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:KP + Grant > Mudiay

He is how u know that's BS...Denver will be Mudiay's team day one..KP and Grant won't start..

With as much holes the Knicks had, the addition of Grant in the Hardaway solidified the 2 selections as plugging gaping holes in both the frontcourt and the backcourt for years to come. Mudiay as nice as it would've been, can't play Power Forward also.

It was the right move. 2 positions when we needed many, was a coup. This is bigger than starting on opening night, this about the long term future for the Knicks beyond Melo.

Don't be so butthurt over it.

Mudiay is a franchise player..Mudiay could potentially be better than Melo..This isn't about Melo, it's about finding the next franchise player for the Knicks..And let's talk basketball and your view on player skill..No need for the immature name calling..U have a kid now rite?

Yup I do. Baby girl, 4 months.

Sorry if I come across as frank sometimes, I'm trying to be as level headed as possible but also getting my point across at the same time.

Mudiay > Melo is debatable. If he ever develops a jumper, then yes he can exceed Melo because he puts up numbers across the board.

No team won't honestly know what their draft picks are until a couple years, not even Towns, Russell, Okafor or Mudiay.

If KP + Grant crack the starting lineup at some point this season, it would be greater than having just Mudiay in the backcourt.

Say Mudiay = 2 points and say KP and Grant are equal to 1.5 points each.

1.5 + 1.5 = 3.0 > 2.0 points. 2 really good players is still better than 1 great player at 1 position. Golden State proved this and so did San Antonio.

If you think Mudiay can potentially be better than Melo then he is a no brainer pick at 4..That's my point..

Mudiay potentially being better than Melo isn't great though. Melo is a one dimensional volume scorer, hasn't averaged more than 3 assist, hasn't cracked the golden averages like Durant in his lifetime of 50% 40% 3PT, 90% FT. Melo isn't a generational talent or player.

Please see beyond Melo, he isn't as good as you prop him up to be.

Wait until Mudiay can hit a jumper first, then once he's consistent compare to his contemporaries at his position like Wall, Paul, Lilliard, Curry, Westbrook, etc..

Yeah right..Melo is our best rebounder and can flat out score..Melo isn't one dimensional..If Mudiay hits his jumpers he is an all star and one of the best players in the league..

That's the thing holfresh. Being our best rebounder isn't that good.

Melo's averaged 6 rebounds for his career which is around average for a small forward. Larry Bird averaged 10 boards a game in his career. Julius Erving 8.5 rebounds a game. Lebron 7 boards a game. Even Shawn Marion averaged 8.7 rebounds for his career.

Being Melo at 6'8 230 with any amount of athleticism you should luck into at least 6 boards. He's not great at rebounding, period.

It took John Wall until about year 4 or 5 to consistently hit the 3 pointer teams were giving him(finally cracking 30% 3PT).

Mudiay will have work like he's never worked before to achieve a consistent jumper. We shall see.

Melo averages 7 boards per since being a Knick..last 4.5 years..His career average is closer to 7 not 6..

SO. 7 is not great. Most decent small forwards average 6 or 7. Not really helping your argument.

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Mudaiy played well at times and others not so much. There were plenty of guys ahead of him--but looking through numbers--hes got a lot of talent AND he has a LONG way to go.

He showed greta promise physically but lets take a look at some of the numbers vs his original scouting report.

Reports cant shoot well--shooting % 38 3 pt% .14
Turnover prone 4 game s AVERAGE was the highest in SL at 5 a game
Not a great FT shooter 50%

So when you walk out of SL the reason why he was bypassed by some just like Winslow did not change. He has some cracks that will need to be addressed and they wont be fixed for some time. That doesnt mean he cant be a great player one day--but reinforces why we may have bypassed him.

I like our chances in what will develop into a 7-3 skill center Take away the 3 point shot and he made more than 60% of his attempts played good D and showed overall quality skills.

The three point shot is why you drafted him..He isn't going to turn into a low post player..Dude is pulling down like 3 boards a game..U think that's going to change against real men?

mudiay is going to be okay as a player but he would not have fit in here. phil jackson is acquiring two-way players who are going to be able to play within the triangle offense and also be able to defend.

mudiay looks like a good one on one player, but once people figure out he is a leftie and enjoys crosscourt passes he may be in for a tough time at the nba level against nba level talent and defenses.

lastly, it is not that easy to fix a broken jumpshot-- note that his free throw shooting is not good-- but maybe with thousands of shots per day between now and preseason he can improve enough to not be a liability.

Mudiay is a two way player far superior to Grant. And three years younger..If you haven't noticed, it's not strictly about the triangle..Mudiay is bigger and stronger than Grant at him age..His passing skills are so advanced that you want the ball in his hands..

Shots between now and preseason??..He is a player for the next 15 years..

They had him in for an interview and a workout...due diligence done.

A number of teams who could have used a PG passed on him, for one reason or another. Lakers brought him in the TWO workouts, and then chose Russell. I was surprised that the Kings did not take him, even though Divac said he had to pass on him because he did not come in for a workout and physical.

He's long, smooth, can see the floor, and has basketball quickness, but does not look like the explosive athlete some have claimed he is. He is also a mature kid, physically, who could easily pass for 22 at this time...a bit like Winslow, in this way.

I don't think his shot is broken, but I have to think that was a major reason teams passed him up. If he could shoot like Russell or Hezonja, you have to think he would have gone earlier, no doubt about it.

If folks like a player and they don't play up to their standards in SL, they bring up the fact that it is only SL, but this does not apply to players folks don't like.
If people like a player and they do well, that confirms their ability, but if a player folks don't like does well, they bring up the "its only SL" argument again.

Knicks had a great draft (including our Euro-stash in Spain)...and maybe Ndour is a keeper- time to move past the second guessing- at least at this time. Maybe 3-5 years down the line you can look back and reevaluate things, but we have a long time to go for that.