WaltLongmire wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:What Jordan did was not "wrong" because non of the agreements made before 7-9 are binding in any legal way. It's all just a handshake deal until then. Now, one may morally and ethically disagree with what Jordan did (ie: break a handshake/gentlemen's agreement) but that does not make it "wrong" in any way beyond one's personal definition of what's appropriate in that situation and how much leeway should be given to someone who makes a handshake deal then retracts it due to a change of heart.

However, Jordan did nothing that is censurable or against any writ of NBA league rule or law. That's the bottom line. Anyone who criticized him is doing so in the context of their own personal moral code, nothing more.

Says a lot about Jordan, and much about you, too, I'm afraid.

At one time a man's word was a bond worth more than a written contract. I've done things I might not have wanted to do because I made an agreement, and somebody else depended on my word.

Am I to assume that your friends carry around a pad of shortened legal contracts for their dealings with you?

H1AND1: "I'll meet you at 8AM- I'm looking forward to seeing a game at Fenway"

WaltLongmire: "Sure, I'll see you at 8...None of us have a car, thank goodness yours can hold everyone. We have to leave early because we have to pick up a few people on the way, and it takes 5 hours to drive to Boston for the game. But first I'll have to ask you to sign this contract."

H1AND1: Why??

WaltLongmire: Can't have you backing out without legal recourse on our end- I spent a lot of money on the tickets, already gave you money to fill up your tank, and everyone has taken off from work just to go up to Boston. This contract gives us certain legal rights and remedies if you fail to show up and drive us.

Teams make million dollar decisions based on these agreements. Other players make decisions based on these agreements.

The system might be flawed, but the flaw is only made manifest because people think like you and Jordan do.

The agreements are not legally binding, but morally, unless one side or another hid something during the negotiations, they are binding, and this is where both you and Jordan come out looking bad.

Well, personally I think what he did was "wrong" in the sense that he gave his word then re-neg'ed. Personally, I would never give my word on something then back out. However, as I said before IN THIS SITUATION, Jordan could do this and screw over the Mavs because the rules set in place by the league allow it to happen without any negative consequences codified in the league rules. There should be a simple solution, something like players cant sign the actual papers from the 1st to the 9th however a player can show intent and once they do that the forthcoming signature is binding. A rider or something. Im not a lawyer (clearly!).

But anyway Longmire, as I said your scenario is pretty funny but I am in the camp that Jordan did something very f'ed up. I just personally blame the NBA for allowing it to happen as this isnt the first time a franshise has been screwed over by a player and a handshake.

Good to know that your friends don't make you sign a contract in lieu of a handshake or verbal agreement.

Scott Van Pelt also touched on something I was thinking in this Tweet:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/notthefakeSVP/status/619146239486107649

It might be that he was too embarrassed to talk to Cuban rather than that he meant to insult Cuban. I agree being an adult means you pick up the phone and talk to Cuban though.

He should be embarrassed. Doc should have made him call Cuban immediately after the signing, at the very least.

He's also a bit of a coward, though, because he did not have the strength to pick up the phone when Cuban was calling him last night.

A lot of folks look bad during this fiasco...mostly Jordan, but also Doc, until I hear differently.

I don't think badly of anyone in this- there was no spite involved. You only get one life, DJ changed his mind regarding what would make him happy. I feel bad for dallas as I'm sure DJ does, and I get that they're angry, but that doesn't make DJ a villain.

smackeddog wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:What Jordan did was not "wrong" because non of the agreements made before 7-9 are binding in any legal way. It's all just a handshake deal until then. Now, one may morally and ethically disagree with what Jordan did (ie: break a handshake/gentlemen's agreement) but that does not make it "wrong" in any way beyond one's personal definition of what's appropriate in that situation and how much leeway should be given to someone who makes a handshake deal then retracts it due to a change of heart.

However, Jordan did nothing that is censurable or against any writ of NBA league rule or law. That's the bottom line. Anyone who criticized him is doing so in the context of their own personal moral code, nothing more.

Says a lot about Jordan, and much about you, too, I'm afraid.

At one time a man's word was a bond worth more than a written contract. I've done things I might not have wanted to do because I made an agreement, and somebody else depended on my word.

Am I to assume that your friends carry around a pad of shortened legal contracts for their dealings with you?

H1AND1: "I'll meet you at 8AM- I'm looking forward to seeing a game at Fenway"

WaltLongmire: "Sure, I'll see you at 8...None of us have a car, thank goodness yours can hold everyone. We have to leave early because we have to pick up a few people on the way, and it takes 5 hours to drive to Boston for the game. But first I'll have to ask you to sign this contract."

H1AND1: Why??

WaltLongmire: Can't have you backing out without legal recourse on our end- I spent a lot of money on the tickets, already gave you money to fill up your tank, and everyone has taken off from work just to go up to Boston. This contract gives us certain legal rights and remedies if you fail to show up and drive us.

Teams make million dollar decisions based on these agreements. Other players make decisions based on these agreements.

The system might be flawed, but the flaw is only made manifest because people think like you and Jordan do.

The agreements are not legally binding, but morally, unless one side or another hid something during the negotiations, they are binding, and this is where both you and Jordan come out looking bad.

Well, personally I think what he did was "wrong" in the sense that he gave his word then re-neg'ed. Personally, I would never give my word on something then back out. However, as I said before IN THIS SITUATION, Jordan could do this and screw over the Mavs because the rules set in place by the league allow it to happen without any negative consequences codified in the league rules. There should be a simple solution, something like players cant sign the actual papers from the 1st to the 9th however a player can show intent and once they do that the forthcoming signature is binding. A rider or something. Im not a lawyer (clearly!).

But anyway Longmire, as I said your scenario is pretty funny but I am in the camp that Jordan did something very f'ed up. I just personally blame the NBA for allowing it to happen as this isnt the first time a franshise has been screwed over by a player and a handshake.

Good to know that your friends don't make you sign a contract in lieu of a handshake or verbal agreement.

Scott Van Pelt also touched on something I was thinking in this Tweet:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/notthefakeSVP/status/619146239486107649

It might be that he was too embarrassed to talk to Cuban rather than that he meant to insult Cuban. I agree being an adult means you pick up the phone and talk to Cuban though.

He should be embarrassed. Doc should have made him call Cuban immediately after the signing, at the very least.

He's also a bit of a coward, though, because he did not have the strength to pick up the phone when Cuban was calling him last night.

A lot of folks look bad during this fiasco...mostly Jordan, but also Doc, until I hear differently.

I don't think badly of anyone in this- there was no spite involved. You only get one life, DJ changed his mind regarding what would make him happy. I feel bad for dallas as I'm sure DJ does, and I get that they're angry, but that doesn't make DJ a villain.

Comes down to being a standup person.

Jordan and his handlers could have changed their minds and come out looking fine if they wanted to.

Amazing how athletes seem to get a free pass these days, no matter what they do, short of murder. Seems that we are even more lenient toward them than we are with actors/celebrities.

We pay them as adults, worship them as gods, but treat their behavior and transgressions as if they are small children who are unable to understand the concepts of responsibility, consequence, commitment, and honor.

Jordan is more a coward than a villain, but his actions affected fans, a franchise, and his fellow players in a significant and some might say harmful way. No other way around this...he might be a giant physically, but as a person he is a very small man at this time.

WaltLongmire wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:What Jordan did was not "wrong" because non of the agreements made before 7-9 are binding in any legal way. It's all just a handshake deal until then. Now, one may morally and ethically disagree with what Jordan did (ie: break a handshake/gentlemen's agreement) but that does not make it "wrong" in any way beyond one's personal definition of what's appropriate in that situation and how much leeway should be given to someone who makes a handshake deal then retracts it due to a change of heart.

However, Jordan did nothing that is censurable or against any writ of NBA league rule or law. That's the bottom line. Anyone who criticized him is doing so in the context of their own personal moral code, nothing more.

Says a lot about Jordan, and much about you, too, I'm afraid.

At one time a man's word was a bond worth more than a written contract. I've done things I might not have wanted to do because I made an agreement, and somebody else depended on my word.

Am I to assume that your friends carry around a pad of shortened legal contracts for their dealings with you?

H1AND1: "I'll meet you at 8AM- I'm looking forward to seeing a game at Fenway"

WaltLongmire: "Sure, I'll see you at 8...None of us have a car, thank goodness yours can hold everyone. We have to leave early because we have to pick up a few people on the way, and it takes 5 hours to drive to Boston for the game. But first I'll have to ask you to sign this contract."

H1AND1: Why??

WaltLongmire: Can't have you backing out without legal recourse on our end- I spent a lot of money on the tickets, already gave you money to fill up your tank, and everyone has taken off from work just to go up to Boston. This contract gives us certain legal rights and remedies if you fail to show up and drive us.

Teams make million dollar decisions based on these agreements. Other players make decisions based on these agreements.

The system might be flawed, but the flaw is only made manifest because people think like you and Jordan do.

The agreements are not legally binding, but morally, unless one side or another hid something during the negotiations, they are binding, and this is where both you and Jordan come out looking bad.

Well, personally I think what he did was "wrong" in the sense that he gave his word then re-neg'ed. Personally, I would never give my word on something then back out. However, as I said before IN THIS SITUATION, Jordan could do this and screw over the Mavs because the rules set in place by the league allow it to happen without any negative consequences codified in the league rules. There should be a simple solution, something like players cant sign the actual papers from the 1st to the 9th however a player can show intent and once they do that the forthcoming signature is binding. A rider or something. Im not a lawyer (clearly!).

But anyway Longmire, as I said your scenario is pretty funny but I am in the camp that Jordan did something very f'ed up. I just personally blame the NBA for allowing it to happen as this isnt the first time a franshise has been screwed over by a player and a handshake.

Good to know that your friends don't make you sign a contract in lieu of a handshake or verbal agreement.

Scott Van Pelt also touched on something I was thinking in this Tweet:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/notthefakeSVP/status/619146239486107649

It might be that he was too embarrassed to talk to Cuban rather than that he meant to insult Cuban. I agree being an adult means you pick up the phone and talk to Cuban though.

He should be embarrassed. Doc should have made him call Cuban immediately after the signing, at the very least.

He's also a bit of a coward, though, because he did not have the strength to pick up the phone when Cuban was calling him last night.

A lot of folks look bad during this fiasco...mostly Jordan, but also Doc, until I hear differently.

I agree, big time coward

smackeddog wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:What Jordan did was not "wrong" because non of the agreements made before 7-9 are binding in any legal way. It's all just a handshake deal until then. Now, one may morally and ethically disagree with what Jordan did (ie: break a handshake/gentlemen's agreement) but that does not make it "wrong" in any way beyond one's personal definition of what's appropriate in that situation and how much leeway should be given to someone who makes a handshake deal then retracts it due to a change of heart.

However, Jordan did nothing that is censurable or against any writ of NBA league rule or law. That's the bottom line. Anyone who criticized him is doing so in the context of their own personal moral code, nothing more.

Says a lot about Jordan, and much about you, too, I'm afraid.

At one time a man's word was a bond worth more than a written contract. I've done things I might not have wanted to do because I made an agreement, and somebody else depended on my word.

Am I to assume that your friends carry around a pad of shortened legal contracts for their dealings with you?

H1AND1: "I'll meet you at 8AM- I'm looking forward to seeing a game at Fenway"

WaltLongmire: "Sure, I'll see you at 8...None of us have a car, thank goodness yours can hold everyone. We have to leave early because we have to pick up a few people on the way, and it takes 5 hours to drive to Boston for the game. But first I'll have to ask you to sign this contract."

H1AND1: Why??

WaltLongmire: Can't have you backing out without legal recourse on our end- I spent a lot of money on the tickets, already gave you money to fill up your tank, and everyone has taken off from work just to go up to Boston. This contract gives us certain legal rights and remedies if you fail to show up and drive us.

Teams make million dollar decisions based on these agreements. Other players make decisions based on these agreements.

The system might be flawed, but the flaw is only made manifest because people think like you and Jordan do.

The agreements are not legally binding, but morally, unless one side or another hid something during the negotiations, they are binding, and this is where both you and Jordan come out looking bad.

Well, personally I think what he did was "wrong" in the sense that he gave his word then re-neg'ed. Personally, I would never give my word on something then back out. However, as I said before IN THIS SITUATION, Jordan could do this and screw over the Mavs because the rules set in place by the league allow it to happen without any negative consequences codified in the league rules. There should be a simple solution, something like players cant sign the actual papers from the 1st to the 9th however a player can show intent and once they do that the forthcoming signature is binding. A rider or something. Im not a lawyer (clearly!).

But anyway Longmire, as I said your scenario is pretty funny but I am in the camp that Jordan did something very f'ed up. I just personally blame the NBA for allowing it to happen as this isnt the first time a franshise has been screwed over by a player and a handshake.

Good to know that your friends don't make you sign a contract in lieu of a handshake or verbal agreement.

Scott Van Pelt also touched on something I was thinking in this Tweet:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/notthefakeSVP/status/619146239486107649

It might be that he was too embarrassed to talk to Cuban rather than that he meant to insult Cuban. I agree being an adult means you pick up the phone and talk to Cuban though.

He should be embarrassed. Doc should have made him call Cuban immediately after the signing, at the very least.

He's also a bit of a coward, though, because he did not have the strength to pick up the phone when Cuban was calling him last night.

A lot of folks look bad during this fiasco...mostly Jordan, but also Doc, until I hear differently.

I don't think badly of anyone in this- there was no spite involved. You only get one life, DJ changed his mind regarding what would make him happy. I feel bad for dallas as I'm sure DJ does, and I get that they're angry, but that doesn't make DJ a villain.

Comes down to being a standup person.

Jordan and his handlers could have changed their minds and come out looking fine if they wanted to.

Amazing how athletes seem to get a free pass these days, no matter what they do, short of murder. Seems that we are even more lenient toward them than we are with actors/celebrities.

We pay them as adults, worship them as gods, but treat their behavior and transgressions as if they are small children who are unable to understand the concepts of responsibility, consequence, commitment, and honor.

Jordan is more a coward than a villain, but his actions affected fans, a franchise, and his fellow players in a significant and some might say harmful way. No other way around this...he might be a giant physically, but as a person he is a very small man at this time.

Not really. By stand up person, you mean he should have done what you think he should have done even if he was miserable for the next 5 years. It's his life, it's easy to cast judgement on people, but at the end of the day you have to go with what's right for you- life is fleeting. Teams sign players then trade them all the time- bit of a double standard. To be honest it took guts to backtrack despite the backlash.

If he'd stayed with mavs, then the Clips franchise and fans would have been screwed.

I'd like to think fans are becoming more accepting that players are just people- they mess up sometimes, we're all flawed.

Jordan was not even enough of a man to talk to Cuban, and from what I know now, he still has not talked to him.

Goldren rule...do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

So if your fiance backs out the day of the wedding you walk away with a big smile because she was just doing what was right for her?

You give up a good job to go elsewhere... completely uproot your life to move to another state where you've been promised a job, and you get there and the guy says they decided to hire someone else without telling you and you walk away with a big smile?

Forget about what Dallas is losing...a lot of his fellow players may have had their lives changed because of his decision, and some might have lost millions of dollars, but as long as Jordan does what is right for his life everything is OK.

Don't worry about actually making a decision...you can always press the do-over button...just do what's right for you and f--- the rest of the world or anyone you hurt.

smackeddog wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:What Jordan did was not "wrong" because non of the agreements made before 7-9 are binding in any legal way. It's all just a handshake deal until then. Now, one may morally and ethically disagree with what Jordan did (ie: break a handshake/gentlemen's agreement) but that does not make it "wrong" in any way beyond one's personal definition of what's appropriate in that situation and how much leeway should be given to someone who makes a handshake deal then retracts it due to a change of heart.

However, Jordan did nothing that is censurable or against any writ of NBA league rule or law. That's the bottom line. Anyone who criticized him is doing so in the context of their own personal moral code, nothing more.

Says a lot about Jordan, and much about you, too, I'm afraid.

At one time a man's word was a bond worth more than a written contract. I've done things I might not have wanted to do because I made an agreement, and somebody else depended on my word.

Am I to assume that your friends carry around a pad of shortened legal contracts for their dealings with you?

H1AND1: "I'll meet you at 8AM- I'm looking forward to seeing a game at Fenway"

WaltLongmire: "Sure, I'll see you at 8...None of us have a car, thank goodness yours can hold everyone. We have to leave early because we have to pick up a few people on the way, and it takes 5 hours to drive to Boston for the game. But first I'll have to ask you to sign this contract."

H1AND1: Why??

WaltLongmire: Can't have you backing out without legal recourse on our end- I spent a lot of money on the tickets, already gave you money to fill up your tank, and everyone has taken off from work just to go up to Boston. This contract gives us certain legal rights and remedies if you fail to show up and drive us.

Teams make million dollar decisions based on these agreements. Other players make decisions based on these agreements.

The system might be flawed, but the flaw is only made manifest because people think like you and Jordan do.

The agreements are not legally binding, but morally, unless one side or another hid something during the negotiations, they are binding, and this is where both you and Jordan come out looking bad.

Well, personally I think what he did was "wrong" in the sense that he gave his word then re-neg'ed. Personally, I would never give my word on something then back out. However, as I said before IN THIS SITUATION, Jordan could do this and screw over the Mavs because the rules set in place by the league allow it to happen without any negative consequences codified in the league rules. There should be a simple solution, something like players cant sign the actual papers from the 1st to the 9th however a player can show intent and once they do that the forthcoming signature is binding. A rider or something. Im not a lawyer (clearly!).

But anyway Longmire, as I said your scenario is pretty funny but I am in the camp that Jordan did something very f'ed up. I just personally blame the NBA for allowing it to happen as this isnt the first time a franshise has been screwed over by a player and a handshake.

Good to know that your friends don't make you sign a contract in lieu of a handshake or verbal agreement.

Scott Van Pelt also touched on something I was thinking in this Tweet:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/notthefakeSVP/status/619146239486107649

It might be that he was too embarrassed to talk to Cuban rather than that he meant to insult Cuban. I agree being an adult means you pick up the phone and talk to Cuban though.

He should be embarrassed. Doc should have made him call Cuban immediately after the signing, at the very least.

He's also a bit of a coward, though, because he did not have the strength to pick up the phone when Cuban was calling him last night.

A lot of folks look bad during this fiasco...mostly Jordan, but also Doc, until I hear differently.

I don't think badly of anyone in this- there was no spite involved. You only get one life, DJ changed his mind regarding what would make him happy. I feel bad for dallas as I'm sure DJ does, and I get that they're angry, but that doesn't make DJ a villain.

Comes down to being a standup person.

Jordan and his handlers could have changed their minds and come out looking fine if they wanted to.

Amazing how athletes seem to get a free pass these days, no matter what they do, short of murder. Seems that we are even more lenient toward them than we are with actors/celebrities.

We pay them as adults, worship them as gods, but treat their behavior and transgressions as if they are small children who are unable to understand the concepts of responsibility, consequence, commitment, and honor.

Jordan is more a coward than a villain, but his actions affected fans, a franchise, and his fellow players in a significant and some might say harmful way. No other way around this...he might be a giant physically, but as a person he is a very small man at this time.

Not really. By stand up person, you mean he should have done what you think he should have done even if he was miserable for the next 5 years. It's his life, it's easy to cast judgement on people, but at the end of the day you have to go with what's right for you- life is fleeting. Teams sign players then trade them all the time- bit of a double standard. To be honest it took guts to backtrack despite the backlash.

If he'd stayed with mavs, then the Clips franchise and fans would have been screwed.

I'd like to think fans are becoming more accepting that players are just people- they mess up sometimes, we're all flawed.

World would be F'd up big time if everyone thought like this.

Jordan was not even enough of a man to talk to Cuban, and from what I know now, he still has not talked to him.

Goldren rule...do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

So if your fiance backs out the day of the wedding you walk away with a big smile because she was just doing what was right for her?

You give up a good job to go elsewhere... completely uproot your life to move to another state where you've been promised a job, and you get there and the guy says they decided to hire someone else without telling you and you walk away with a big smile?

Forget about what Dallas is losing...a lot of his fellow players may have had their lives changed because of his decision, and some might have lost millions of dollars, but as long as Jordan does what is right for his life everything is OK.

Don't worry about actually making a decision...you can always press the do-over button...just do what's right for you and f--- the rest of the world or anyone you hurt.

Actually the marriage analogy is a good one- if on the eve of your wedding your fiancée realised she'd made a huge mistake, do you honestly think it would be better if she shut up and married you and spent the next 5 years regretting it?

If he'd gone to the mavs, then the clipper fans and players would be just as screwed as the mavs are now. You know I'm sure mavs fans will recover, it's just basketball.

...But you, blissfully ignorant of what she was going to do, would take it all in stride after making all of your plans with her in mind...perhaps taking a job you did not like only to make more money to support your family and the children you had talked about having...and the $75Gs you and your family kicked in for the wedding that didn't happen would be no issue at all for you. because at least she was doing what was right for her.

Thank goodness the Knicks weren't the ones fooled by this loser and coward.

GustavBahler wrote:

TheGame wrote:Generally, an oral contract can be enforced. However, if the NBA notified teams that all deals during the moratorium are unenforceable, then the question becomes could Cuban reasonably rely on an unenforceable verbal commitment. My guess is that a court will rule that he could not. Plus, the stuff discussed in the article involves acts that took place after Jordan contacted the Clippers. As a lawyer, I don't see the case going anywhere. The nba has already issued a statement that deals reached during the moratorium are not enforceable, so that is the leagues position on the issue.

Interesting, thanks for the insight. Pretty sure Cuban is going to take it out on somebody, don't know who. He's not the type to take something like this lying down.

God I hope so. I have been upset since I read this. What a crass low class act to pull. Plus he didn't even have the decency of calling them and letting them know, they have to find out through social media and twitter? I am against the NBA changing rules to prevent this, but I do hope they ban him for year or two.

meloshouldgo wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

TheGame wrote:Generally, an oral contract can be enforced. However, if the NBA notified teams that all deals during the moratorium are unenforceable, then the question becomes could Cuban reasonably rely on an unenforceable verbal commitment. My guess is that a court will rule that he could not. Plus, the stuff discussed in the article involves acts that took place after Jordan contacted the Clippers. As a lawyer, I don't see the case going anywhere. The nba has already issued a statement that deals reached during the moratorium are not enforceable, so that is the leagues position on the issue.

Interesting, thanks for the insight. Pretty sure Cuban is going to take it out on somebody, don't know who. He's not the type to take something like this lying down.

God I hope so. I have been upset since I read this. What a crass low class act to pull. Plus he didn't even have the decency of calling them and letting them know, they have to find out through social media and twitter? I am against the NBA changing rules to prevent this, but I do hope they ban him for year or two.

Not calling Cuban is the part I thought was in really poor form. If its legal to go back on the deal, so be it, but at least call the guy who was willing to give you tens of millions of dollars to work for him, and made you feel more respected than you felt in LA.