D Williams is a bone-headed move. There are a lot of better ways to spend $5m per year. I think after taking stock of all of Phil's moves to date, I would say he has been no better than Layden or Thomas. He's done 1 good trade, but Thomas also had some decent trades along with mistakes.

ESOMKnicks wrote:I like RoLo, he is a throwback to the old-style blue collar Knicks. But he has taken up a huge chunk of our cap space, and now I am questioning what would be the next move to take us to the elite level in the next year or two? No pick in 2016 and no cap space either.

D Williams is a bone-headed move. There are a lot of better ways to spend $5m per year. I think after taking stock of all of Phil's moves to date, I would say he has been no better than Layden or Thomas. He's done 1 good trade, but Thomas also had some decent trades along with mistakes.

LOL Thomas bad moves were back breaking,A Max contract to Marbury , 2 top 10 picks and a a near max contract to Eddy Curry. Those contracts took up 1/3 and 1/4 of the space respectively. when the cap goes up in 2 years Lopez will be getting what an 8th of the cap, take it easy.

ESOMKnicks wrote:Thomas took gambles and lost. But a few of them were worthy gambles. Marbury at the time was a legit NBA superstar around whom one could arguably build a team, someone New York had not had at the time ever since Layden traded away Ewing, then Rice and Spree getting back mediocrities. McDyess was considered to be a top-3 league talent at power forward, whom we got in exchange for an injury-prone Camby. As bad luck would have it, it was McD that had the bum injury that pretty much spelled the end of his stardom as soon as he joined the Knicks. And everyone was swooning at Eddy Curry's physique and low-post scoring talent, proclaiming him the next Ewing, when he first landed in NY, and his early play was pretty good actually. Very easy to judge with 20-20 hindsight.

As for Phil, his moves so far resemble Layden, who made bad trades and everyone immediately knew they were bad at the time they were made. I give him props for getting Jerian Grant (at least now there appears to be A LOT of upside to this move, whether or not it ultimately works out). But the rest, I just don't see how it gets us any closer to a championship. I agree with the view that once it became clear than NY is not landing a marquee superstar this year (read: LaMarcus Aldridge) it should have better kept its cap space clear for now to try try to add two max contract players at once later (which is what the Lakers seem to be intent on doing next year).

The only move I liked at the time was Marbury, the rest I hated. I couldnt stand the McDyess trade because I loved Camby. I couldnt believe they traded him away. We traded a lottery pick and a long term reasonable contract, that was asinine. We could of had our frontcourt set for a decade without that move.

Jmpasq wrote:
The only move I liked at the time was Marbury, the rest I hated. I couldnt stand the McDyess trade because I loved Camby. I couldnt believe they traded him away. We traded a lottery pick and a long term reasonable contract, that was asinine. We could of had our frontcourt set for a decade without that move.

I loved Camby too, but at the time McD was simply a much more marquee player, kinda like LaMarcus Aldrigde today. Camby was being knocked for being too thin and unable to guard the muscular physical bigs at center (it was the Age of Shaq, remember, hence the reason why the massive Curry offered so much promise at center). Camby was also thought of offering too little on offense, beyond putbacks, while McD was a legitimate 20+ ppg threat able to create his own shot. Ironically, it was McD that ended up injured (after making fun of Camby's injury history, karma really bites), while Camby bulked up a bit and went off to have a relatively productive career. If you could predict all of that at the time of the trade, my hat off to you for your incredible foresight and insight, but I, along with other common mortals, could not.

But we can all probably safely agree that RoLo will not rise to a 20 ppg level, Afflalo is not longer a threat to become the next Allan Houston, and D Will, well, I just found out about his existence now, when the Knicks have signed him.

And even if we do not have our draft picks like the Lakers do, it does not mean that the strategy of spending our cap on 2nd tier players is better than trying to swing for two max contracts in the future (whether through FA signings, or having the space to trade for max players whom other teams may want to unload during the season).

P.S. Actually, after I had finished writing the above, I realized I had forgotten that we also had traded away Nene. I recall disliking that part of the trade.

ESOMKnicks wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:
The only move I liked at the time was Marbury, the rest I hated. I couldnt stand the McDyess trade because I loved Camby. I couldnt believe they traded him away. We traded a lottery pick and a long term reasonable contract, that was asinine. We could of had our frontcourt set for a decade without that move.

I loved Camby too, but at the time McD was simply a much more marquee player, kinda like LaMarcus Aldrigde today. Camby was being knocked for being too thin and unable to guard the muscular physical bigs at center (it was the Age of Shaq, remember, hence the reason why the massive Curry offered so much promise at center). Camby was also thought of offering too little on offense, beyond putbacks, while McD was a legitimate 20+ ppg threat able to create his own shot. Ironically, it was McD that ended up injured (after making fun of Camby's injury history, karma really bites), while Camby bulked up a bit and went off to have a relatively productive career. If you could predict all of that at the time of the trade, my hat off to you for your incredible foresight and insight, but I, along with other common mortals, could not.

But we can all probably safely agree that RoLo will not rise to a 20 ppg level, Afflalo is not longer a threat to become the next Allan Houston, and D Will, well, I just found out about his existence now, when the Knicks have signed him.

And even if we do not have our draft picks like the Lakers do, it does not mean that the strategy of spending our cap on 2nd tier players is better than trying to swing for two max contracts in the future (whether through FA signings, or having the space to trade for max players whom other teams may want to unload during the season).

P.S. Actually, after I had finished writing the above, I realized I had forgotten that we also had traded away Nene. I recall disliking that part of the trade.

Dice missed the WHOLE prior season due to a messed up knee. No way was his value worth a #7 lottery pick and Marcus Camby. Layden gave Howard Eisley, Shandon Anderson and Clearance Weatherspoon 5 yr deals to go along with giving Alan Houston a 7yr 100mil. He had absolutely no concept of value or flexibility or talent, his drafting sucked also. Isiah Thomas had an eye for talent, just didn't know how to put a team together and took to big of a risk on Eddie Curry.

Phil hasn't made any real mortgaging of the future moves, has kept cap flexibility for the most part. Developing a solid D-league foundation, drafted some stash players for the future in H.Gomes, Brazil Kid, Thanasis. And graded out very well with his selections of Early, KP, Grant. Also seems to have a better concept on putting together a team and not just adding names or talent that may not fit.

If Phil continues to utilize D-league development & drafting/stashing euros eventually some will hit and we would be getting back 10x the value . Which can turn into a productive player or draft pick or another player that may fit better. Pure brick laying.

newyorknewyork wrote:The down side though is that he is nothing more then a rotational big. At 13.5mil or 9.5mil in 2015 dollars that's to much. Ed Davis and Alexis Ajinca combined for 40mil. He isn't twice as good as them. Players like Lopez aren't hard to come by. Would have rather discovered our own Robin Lopez.

On the bright side he could serve as a mentor to KP.

Name those players that you want at C who are available.

I liked Alexis Ajinca but he's not a starting C who is reliable over an 82 game season. And Ed Davis is not a C. And the twice as good theory because salaries are double doesn't really work that way.

Rotational big is exactly what RoLo is, nothing flashy and yet quietly solid. Don't expect big things from him and don't want them either, that's not his role. Hope he can develop a better mid range shot like his brother.

yellowboy90 wrote:

martin wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:The down side though is that he is nothing more then a rotational big. At 13.5mil or 9.5mil in 2015 dollars that's to much. Ed Davis and Alexis Ajinca combined for 40mil. He isn't twice as good as them. Players like Lopez aren't hard to come by. Would have rather discovered our own Robin Lopez.

On the bright side he could serve as a mentor to KP.

Name those players that you want at C who are available.

I liked Alexis Ajinca but he's not a starting C who is reliable over an 82 game season. And Ed Davis is not a C. And the twice as good theory because salaries are double doesn't really work that way.

Rotational big is exactly what RoLo is, nothing flashy and yet quietly solid. Don't expect big things from him and don't want them either, that's not his role. Hope he can develop a better mid range shot like his brother.

I would say he is above a rotational big because he can actually carry heavy minuted and a high usg.

That's fair. I like the fact that he was signed for 4 years. That's 4 years you don't have to worry about the starting C position. And obviously you want KP to fill out to his potential, and if he does, that's a decent, not stellar, back line.

My best hopes for the future: Rolo, KP, Durant, Grant, Gallo - I know, I know lots of wishful hoping in Durant coming and Grant/Gallo developing into bulldog defenders who spread the floor and make life hell for other team's backcourt. Melo as a FUCKING BADASS 6th man. It would take a TON for Melo to come off bench, and maybe he doesn't for another year while KP develops further.

His arrival coincided with back-to-back career seasons for LaMarcus Aldridge, who had desired to play with a true center. Thanks to Lopez’s diligence in boxing out, Aldridge averaged double-digit rebounds in back-to-back seasons.

Aldridge had never before averaged double-digit rebounds.

Lopez proved to be an ideal fit alongside Aldridge. He was credited by many in the locker room for triggering the team’s franchise’s recent renaissance, which culminated in their first playoff series win in 14 years