holfresh wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Call me crazy but if "culture change" is what you all want (i.e. a rebuild), then how the hell do you not trade the pick to the Celtics for Jared Sullinger and 6 draft picks (as many as 4 in the first round)? Yeah, a 7"2' "shooter" that can't pass, can't rebound, has no offensive counter moves, and can't hold his position in the post is nice and all but I'd have to think that the opportunity to build a TEAM would trump all of that.

Phil and his scouts said he is a "once in a lifetime" type player...

NardDogNation wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Call me crazy but if "culture change" is what you all want (i.e. a rebuild), then how the hell do you not trade the pick to the Celtics for Jared Sullinger and 6 draft picks (as many as 4 in the first round)? Yeah, a 7"2' "shooter" that can't pass, can't rebound, has no offensive counter moves, and can't hold his position in the post is nice and all but I'd have to think that the opportunity to build a TEAM would trump all of that.

Wow - that's just pure hatred right there. Every single thing I have seen on videos and read about this kid says different. But you are entitled to your opinion. Sullinger has done very little and you don't rebuild with a bunch of late firsts, you rebuild by accumulating lottery picks and a shot at players that can really be franchise cornerstones. Something Melo was supposed to be in Denver and then here and failed to be in both places.

Is Porzingis a franchise player? Heck if I know - time will tell. But he has as good a shot of being one as any taken 4th or later. That I can live with.

How do you know the Celtics were offering late first round picks? The only reports available detail just the 16th and the Nets unprotected first in 2016 or 2018 being involved.

As for Porzingis, I know that a leopard doesn't change it's spots. He's not going to be a mediocre rebounder in JV and then magically become an above average rebounder on varsity. He's not going to be a supar passer in JV and then become Vlade Divac on varsity. What we're looking at is a 7ft jump shooter and that will likely be his bread and butter. Hopefully he'll develop counter-moves based on that ability but I see little else in his offensive arsenal that represents a go-to move.

They weren't lottery picks and who knows what he Nets pick will be? Swap out a lottery pick for the chance of getting another one doesn't feel like a win. Now swapping a guy like THJR for mid first - THAT my friend is win.

newyorknewyork wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Call me crazy but if "culture change" is what you all want (i.e. a rebuild), then how the hell do you not trade the pick to the Celtics for Jared Sullinger and 6 draft picks (as many as 4 in the first round)? Yeah, a 7"2' "shooter" that can't pass, can't rebound, has no offensive counter moves, and can't hold his position in the post is nice and all but I'd have to think that the opportunity to build a TEAM would trump all of that.

Wow - that's just pure hatred right there. Every single thing I have seen on videos and read about this kid says different. But you are entitled to your opinion. Sullinger has done very little and you don't rebuild with a bunch of late firsts, you rebuild by accumulating lottery picks and a shot at players that can really be franchise cornerstones. Something Melo was supposed to be in Denver and then here and failed to be in both places.

Is Porzingis a franchise player? Heck if I know - time will tell. But he has as good a shot of being one as any taken 4th or later. That I can live with.

How do you know the Celtics were offering late first round picks? The only reports available detail just the 16th and the Nets unprotected first in 2016 or 2018 being involved.

As for Porzingis, I know that a leopard doesn't change it's spots. He's not going to be a mediocre rebounder in JV and then magically become an above average rebounder on varsity. He's not going to be a supar passer in JV and then become Vlade Divac on varsity. What we're looking at is a 7ft jump shooter and that will likely be his bread and butter. Hopefully he'll develop counter-moves based on that ability but I see little else in his offensive arsenal that represents a go-to move.

I like Sullinger as a player, had him on my fantasy team. I believe the coach or gm questioned his work ethic tho. Was really upset with him around the time of his injury. He was very inconsistent but would put up some very good numbers across the board. Something like 15-20pts, 8-14rebs to 3-5ast, 1-2blks as well as some 3s sprinkled in. He has talent, its all up to him what he makes of his career.

As for Porzingis he has a pretty good turnaround jumper from the high post, doubt its nba ready at the moment though.

A lot of draft boards had him going top 5, to reduce that to a good turnaround jumper is a bit too much isn't it? Let's see what he can do first before making pronouncements. We have already seen what Sullinger can and won't do.

NardDogNation wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Call me crazy but if "culture change" is what you all want (i.e. a rebuild), then how the hell do you not trade the pick to the Celtics for Jared Sullinger and 6 draft picks (as many as 4 in the first round)? Yeah, a 7"2' "shooter" that can't pass, can't rebound, has no offensive counter moves, and can't hold his position in the post is nice and all but I'd have to think that the opportunity to build a TEAM would trump all of that.

Wow - that's just pure hatred right there. Every single thing I have seen on videos and read about this kid says different. But you are entitled to your opinion. Sullinger has done very little and you don't rebuild with a bunch of late firsts, you rebuild by accumulating lottery picks and a shot at players that can really be franchise cornerstones. Something Melo was supposed to be in Denver and then here and failed to be in both places.

Is Porzingis a franchise player? Heck if I know - time will tell. But he has as good a shot of being one as any taken 4th or later. That I can live with.

How do you know the Celtics were offering late first round picks? The only reports available detail just the 16th and the Nets unprotected first in 2016 or 2018 being involved.

As for Porzingis, I know that a leopard doesn't change it's spots. He's not going to be a mediocre rebounder in JV and then magically become an above average rebounder on varsity. He's not going to be a supar passer in JV and then become Vlade Divac on varsity. What we're looking at is a 7ft jump shooter and that will likely be his bread and butter. Hopefully he'll develop counter-moves based on that ability but I see little else in his offensive arsenal that represents a go-to move.

Yes, you're so right. Players drafted into the NBA never ever develop. They basically stay exactly the same forever.

TPercy wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Call me crazy but if "culture change" is what you all want (i.e. a rebuild), then how the hell do you not trade the pick to the Celtics for Jared Sullinger and 6 draft picks (as many as 4 in the first round)? Yeah, a 7"2' "shooter" that can't pass, can't rebound, has no offensive counter moves, and can't hold his position in the post is nice and all but I'd have to think that the opportunity to build a TEAM would trump all of that.

No offensive counter moves? Right...
We don't know for sure if he cant pass if we have not seen him play...
Can't rebound? he can get around 8-9 rebounds at a per 40 pace, its not fantastic, but it can't be put into the "can't rebound" category

KP has potential to be a the most superior player in the draft. He is very fast for his size and is a good shooter. He can turn out to be the an ungaurdable player in the NBA especially with the league getting a lot more smaller and less physical.

At 7"2', has there ever been a guy that has rebounded worse than 7.7 per 36 minutes? At that height, you'd expect the ball to end up in his hands by accident. Even as soft as Roy Hibbert is, he has never averaged less than 8.0 reboundes per 36 and that was against vastly superior athletes/competition.

As I've articulated a half dozen times by now, there is nothing in his game or in his numbers that gives me hope he is a competent passer. Per 36, he doesn't even average more than an assist a game, in a basketball culture that stresses basketball movement.

It's interesting that in spite of these facts though, I can't judge him because "we haven't seen him play" but you can somehow determine that "KP has the potential to be the most superior player in the draft". Yeah, clearly I'm being the silly one....

CrushAlot wrote:

holfresh wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Call me crazy but if "culture change" is what you all want (i.e. a rebuild), then how the hell do you not trade the pick to the Celtics for Jared Sullinger and 6 draft picks (as many as 4 in the first round)? Yeah, a 7"2' "shooter" that can't pass, can't rebound, has no offensive counter moves, and can't hold his position in the post is nice and all but I'd have to think that the opportunity to build a TEAM would trump all of that.

Phil and his scouts said he is a "once in a lifetime" type player...

Yep and the offer made to the Hornets wasn't made to the Knicks.

Again, there is nothing in the reports to suggest that. I confronted you yesterday about that and you didn't respond to how you have determined that this was the case.

NardDogNation wrote:

TPercy wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Call me crazy but if "culture change" is what you all want (i.e. a rebuild), then how the hell do you not trade the pick to the Celtics for Jared Sullinger and 6 draft picks (as many as 4 in the first round)? Yeah, a 7"2' "shooter" that can't pass, can't rebound, has no offensive counter moves, and can't hold his position in the post is nice and all but I'd have to think that the opportunity to build a TEAM would trump all of that.

No offensive counter moves? Right...
We don't know for sure if he cant pass if we have not seen him play...
Can't rebound? he can get around 8-9 rebounds at a per 40 pace, its not fantastic, but it can't be put into the "can't rebound" category

KP has potential to be a the most superior player in the draft. He is very fast for his size and is a good shooter. He can turn out to be the an ungaurdable player in the NBA especially with the league getting a lot more smaller and less physical.

At 7"2', has there ever been a guy that has rebounded worse than 7.7 per 36 minutes? At that height, you'd expect the ball to end up in his hands by accident. Even as soft as Roy Hibbert is, he has never averaged less than 8.0 reboundes per 36 and that was against vastly superior athletes/competition.

As I've articulated a half dozen times by now, there is nothing in his game or in his numbers that gives me hope he is a competent passer. Per 36, he doesn't even average more than an assist a game, in a basketball culture that stresses basketball movement.

It's interesting that in spite of these facts, I can't judge him because "we haven't seen him play" but you can somehow determine that "KP has the potential to be the most superior player in the draft". Yeah, clearly I'm being the silly one....

Have you ever considered the fact that he plays as a 3/stretch 4 for his team? You seem to be judging his rebounding numbers based on his height rather than the position he actually plays..
As for passing how do you know he can't pass? Assisting and passing are two different things and even if he is not that great of a passer, he is still 19 years old with plenty of potential to get better. KP has stated many times how much he wants to improve and to become a great player. He has a good work ethic from what we can say and that will help him a lot in his development. You seem to be focusing on just the negatives rather than the positives. What did you expect him to be? Patrick Ewing? Dirk? Lets give this guy a chance.

newyorknewyork wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Call me crazy but if "culture change" is what you all want (i.e. a rebuild), then how the hell do you not trade the pick to the Celtics for Jared Sullinger and 6 draft picks (as many as 4 in the first round)? Yeah, a 7"2' "shooter" that can't pass, can't rebound, has no offensive counter moves, and can't hold his position in the post is nice and all but I'd have to think that the opportunity to build a TEAM would trump all of that.

Wow - that's just pure hatred right there. Every single thing I have seen on videos and read about this kid says different. But you are entitled to your opinion. Sullinger has done very little and you don't rebuild with a bunch of late firsts, you rebuild by accumulating lottery picks and a shot at players that can really be franchise cornerstones. Something Melo was supposed to be in Denver and then here and failed to be in both places.

Is Porzingis a franchise player? Heck if I know - time will tell. But he has as good a shot of being one as any taken 4th or later. That I can live with.

How do you know the Celtics were offering late first round picks? The only reports available detail just the 16th and the Nets unprotected first in 2016 or 2018 being involved.

As for Porzingis, I know that a leopard doesn't change it's spots. He's not going to be a mediocre rebounder in JV and then magically become an above average rebounder on varsity. He's not going to be a supar passer in JV and then become Vlade Divac on varsity. What we're looking at is a 7ft jump shooter and that will likely be his bread and butter. Hopefully he'll develop counter-moves based on that ability but I see little else in his offensive arsenal that represents a go-to move.

I like Sullinger as a player, had him on my fantasy team. I believe the coach or gm questioned his work ethic tho. Was really upset with him around the time of his injury. He was very inconsistent but would put up some very good numbers across the board. Something like 15-20pts, 8-14rebs to 3-5ast, 1-2blks as well as some 3s sprinkled in. He has talent, its all up to him what he makes of his career.

As for Porzingis he has a pretty good turnaround jumper from the high post, doubt its nba ready at the moment though.

I like Sullinger but I definitely wouldn't consider him as a pillar for anything we do. He's a talented player but I think his career trajectory is a bench player on a contender.

And yeah, I think Porzingis has an excellent touch and mechanics on his fadeaway but that shot isn't just about technique; you need to have the core and length strength there to consistently get it over defenders. And right now, I don't see that being a viable option for KrisP because he seems to easily get pushed off the block and off balance.

NardDogNation wrote:And yeah, I think Porzingis has an excellent touch and mechanics on his fadeaway but that shot isn't just about technique; you need to have the core and length strength there to consistently get it over defenders. And right now, I don't see that being a viable option for KrisP because he seems to easily get pushed off the block and off balance.

KP is 7'3" who the heck is gonna get a hand in on his shot? I think KP has tremendous upside due to his size, length and skill. He has that Dirk advantage of being so big but also skilled and quick. Too quick for bigs and to big for smaller players. I think he'll be a problem for defenders offensively. IMO the thing we'll have to worry about the LEAST is gonna be his offense. Even if he's just getting dump offs for layups and dunks and 3's he'll be able to contribute. Teams will loose track of him often IMO. That's how he played in Europe. He knows to keep moving, which helps him avoid being manhandled. He just keeps in motion and looks for the open spaces like we also to in this system. It'll look exactly like this...