LivingLegend wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

jbeachboy wrote:so you recommend drafting stein?

There are others avenues Id rather travel. One thing is for sure NOT Stein AND Monroe--wont work. Didnt work with Drummond who is WAY better than Stein.

Drummond is one of the dumbest looking players I've ever seen. People see him block a few shots and grab some rebounds and want him but this dude is clueless.

There is no reason to think that WCS can't be better than Drummond offensively very quickly. He's already ahead of Drummond from a skill aspect. Drum minds lucky he doesn't break the board on free throws.

Andre Drummond is younger right now than WCS and while Stein was putting up 1-4 vs Wisconsin Andre Drummond put up 32-14-3 against the Miami HEat(In the NBA) case closed.

BRIGGS wrote:Andre Drummond is younger right now than WCS and while Stein was putting up 1-4 vs Wisconsin Andre Drummond put up 32-14-3 against the Miami HEat(In the NBA) case closed.

Drummond is a good young big and really this isn't about WCS vs Drummond. players develop at different rates and have different levels of potential. What kind of player Drummond is now and what his potential is has nothing to do with WCS, his current level and potential. They could both have good NBA careers.

The point is whether WCS is the right player for this team and also if Monroe is the right FA for this team. How Monroe and Drummond performed in Detroit is also hard to use as a comparison because of how they were used in Detroit. There's no similarity in the Way the Pistons used Monroe and Drummond and how the Knicks would use Monroe and WCS if they were brought in. The system we run puts our bigs in totally different spots and roles.

gunsnewing wrote:yea Monroe will be a great FA signing even though he would've been much more effective next to Towns.

Constantly posting all day long about every player we are going to draft is a complete waste of time since that player is not doing to amount to anything significant. Maybe next time we are in the position to truly tank we won't screw it up. Which will probably be in the year we actually have our 1st rd pick. Maybe we will have a shot at the next Lebron and truly go back to being one of the most prestigious NBA franchises again. Until then we are looking at mediocrity to sub - .500

GS destroyed the Cavs last night starting Iggy, Green and Barnes in the frontcourt. When you look at the impact these guys who can defend many frontcourt spots bring you must seriously consider WCS at 4. Foolish not too.

What would Frank's impact be on either of these teams?

codeunknown wrote:
Do you play Monroe at 4 or 5 and who would you pair in the front court with him? What do you prioritize with his frontcourt partner - defense or shooting? This tradeoff with Monroe is exacerbated when he is not used as the focal point (and Carmelo is penciled in for that here).

When the cap grows in the next few years, the transitional contracts will either be very advantageous or big mistakes. Teams recognize this opportunity in parallel, so its very possible that a few "super" teams will form, leaving teams who made hasty ill-advised signings even more in the lurch. And as always, the maximum per player is percentage adjusted, so a larger cap isn't a free pass to spend - just a new endpoint, where market perception may initially lag. Either way, the free agency winners in the next 1-2 years have a good chance of dominating.

he's the best attainable free agent out there... next year everyone is going to have a ridiculous amount of cap room and his max now will look like peanuts compared to next year... it's just good value right now that can't be had with anyone else short of marc gasol or deandre jordan... that's why it's best to blow our load this year.. but at the same time not waste it...

so what happens if we don't have use our cap room this year? every team in the league next year will be able to offer someone a max.. you realize that right? Also the max will be worth a lot more.. probably a good 5mm more per year...

in the context of the next 5yr revenues.. it's just a no brainer.. if he's out there and he's willing to come there's no reason to not sign him... we don't have a pick so tanking is not in the equation... we'll STILL have cap room next year.. and we can still trade him if we don't like it at the end of the season...

there's zero downside to this... get the talent.. see if you can make it work and see if there's somethign there... have fun in the meantime...

BRIGGS wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

jbeachboy wrote:so you recommend drafting stein?

There are others avenues Id rather travel. One thing is for sure NOT Stein AND Monroe--wont work. Didnt work with Drummond who is WAY better than Stein.

Drummond is one of the dumbest looking players I've ever seen. People see him block a few shots and grab some rebounds and want him but this dude is clueless.

There is no reason to think that WCS can't be better than Drummond offensively very quickly. He's already ahead of Drummond from a skill aspect. Drum minds lucky he doesn't break the board on free throws.

Andre Drummond is younger right now than WCS and while Stein was putting up 1-4 vs Wisconsin Andre Drummond put up 32-14-3 against the Miami HEat(In the NBA) case closed.

Drummond still sucks and is a dumb basketball player - watch him play - zero skill in his game. With WCS it does remain to be seen - he could never develop offensively.

FistOfOakley wrote:

codeunknown wrote:
Do you play Monroe at 4 or 5 and who would you pair in the front court with him? What do you prioritize with his frontcourt partner - defense or shooting? This tradeoff with Monroe is exacerbated when he is not used as the focal point (and Carmelo is penciled in for that here).

When the cap grows in the next few years, the transitional contracts will either be very advantageous or big mistakes. Teams recognize this opportunity in parallel, so its very possible that a few "super" teams will form, leaving teams who made hasty ill-advised signings even more in the lurch. And as always, the maximum per player is percentage adjusted, so a larger cap isn't a free pass to spend - just a new endpoint, where market perception may initially lag. Either way, the free agency winners in the next 1-2 years have a good chance of dominating.

he's the best attainable free agent out there... next year everyone is going to have a ridiculous amount of cap room and his max now will look like peanuts compared to next year... it's just good value right now that can't be had with anyone else short of marc gasol or deandre jordan... that's why it's best to blow our load this year.. but at the same time not waste it...

so what happens if we don't have use our cap room this year? every team in the league next year will be able to offer someone a max.. you realize that right? Also the max will be worth a lot more.. probably a good 5mm more per year...

in the context of the next 5yr revenues.. it's just a no brainer.. if he's out there and he's willing to come there's no reason to not sign him... we don't have a pick so tanking is not in the equation... we'll STILL have cap room next year.. and we can still trade him if we don't like it at the end of the season...

there's zero downside to this... get the talent.. see if you can make it work and see if there's somethign there... have fun in the meantime...

I don't agree with your assessment at all and you didn't really address the points made. Your thinking on the max offering possibilities next year is wrong; although you may overpay for talent that you view as part of the big picture, the degree of this is key. The idea that overspending this year is negligible is horribly misguided; other teams are improving in parallel and will use every dime of their cap cost-effectively. As I said, the transition to the new cap offers opportunities to teams with room to spend before the hike, but this matters only in the context of the available talent. The bottom line to me is I don't see Monroe as a significant player on a championship team. So, its a simple decision for me. I'll say also that your assumption that we can trade him to recoup that cap space doesn't account for the reality that it likely costs us an asset(s) to do so.

FistOfOakley wrote:

codeunknown wrote:
I don't agree with your assessment at all and you didn't really address the points made. Your thinking on the max offering possibilities next year is wrong; although you may overpay for talent that you view as part of the big picture, the degree of this is key. The idea that overspending this year is negligible is horribly misguided; other teams are improving in parallel and will use every dime of their cap cost-effectively. As I said, the transition to the new cap offers opportunities to teams with room to spend before the hike, but this matters only in the context of the available talent. The bottom line to me is I don't see Monroe as a significant player on a championship team. So, its a simple decision for me. I'll say also that your assumption that we can trade him to recoup that cap space doesn't account for the reality that it likely costs us an asset(s) to do so.

what's the replacement cost though on a 4 yr 15.5mm for a player who consistently provides a 18-20 PER? If the view is to build a championship contender that's fine... but the championship pieces are not there in free agency... gasol is probably one and i'd ditch monroe in a heartbeat if we can get him... jordan might be another and to me it'd be close between the two...

next year who are the targets? durant? let's just entertain that possibility... what's preventing us from offering a max to him next year? if it's not durant then who?

2017... a full two seasons from now... we have chris paul, curry, westbrook and griffin.... assuming they all want to come here and we're capped out with melo durant monroe 2015 draft pick... what's preventing us from doing a sign and trade?

if you want to just be bad like the sixers... that's fine... but we don't have a pick to tank next year... we still have melo who's not going anywhere... if you just prefer to watch bad basketball in the meantime while we wait to buy championship pieces that's great.. but it's pretty fun to have a good team....

And that's the fundamental counter argument - so I agree, that deciding between a "championship" play and just a "good" team is often the most important and difficult decision to make. In my opinion, however, Monroe doesn't help either cause significantly. Agree that Jordan is the best production/longevity package available in free agency.

Hamo49 wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

FistOfOakley wrote:

codeunknown wrote:
I don't agree with your assessment at all and you didn't really address the points made. Your thinking on the max offering possibilities next year is wrong; although you may overpay for talent that you view as part of the big picture, the degree of this is key. The idea that overspending this year is negligible is horribly misguided; other teams are improving in parallel and will use every dime of their cap cost-effectively. As I said, the transition to the new cap offers opportunities to teams with room to spend before the hike, but this matters only in the context of the available talent. The bottom line to me is I don't see Monroe as a significant player on a championship team. So, its a simple decision for me. I'll say also that your assumption that we can trade him to recoup that cap space doesn't account for the reality that it likely costs us an asset(s) to do so.

what's the replacement cost though on a 4 yr 15.5mm for a player who consistently provides a 18-20 PER? If the view is to build a championship contender that's fine... but the championship pieces are not there in free agency... gasol is probably one and i'd ditch monroe in a heartbeat if we can get him... jordan might be another and to me it'd be close between the two...

next year who are the targets? durant? let's just entertain that possibility... what's preventing us from offering a max to him next year? if it's not durant then who?

2017... a full two seasons from now... we have chris paul, curry, westbrook and griffin.... assuming they all want to come here and we're capped out with melo durant monroe 2015 draft pick... what's preventing us from doing a sign and trade?

if you want to just be bad like the sixers... that's fine... but we don't have a pick to tank next year... we still have melo who's not going anywhere... if you just prefer to watch bad basketball in the meantime while we wait to buy championship pieces that's great.. but it's pretty fun to have a good team....

And that's the fundamental counter argument - so I agree, that deciding between a "championship" play and just a "good" team is often the most important and difficult decision to make. In my opinion, however, Monroe doesn't help either cause significantly. Agree that Jordan is the best production/longevity package available in free agency.

Obviously the goal will be a championship team, and maybe Monroe isn't a part of the final squad, maybe he is, but we need to keep upgrading. Monroe could have a good 2 years here then be traded/part of a trade that lands us a better player.... Same for all our list, we buy low now and develop our assets

Again, to me, it's not a maybe - I don't think Monroe can reasonably be a significant part of a championship team. Intermediate steps are absolutely necessary except I value the cap space for future transactions over what I view as an asset with a per dollar value that will depreciate.

Knixkik wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

holfresh wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Dude!!!!!

The NBA s changing and we BETTER notice and change with it. Its the Spurs model that works. Monroe would nOT play for the Spurs--maybe Stein but not Monroe.

Monroe would eat Tiago Stiffer for lunch what are you babbling about. Splitter, Baynes, Ayers - no Monroe can't play with those studs.

Monroe's teams haven't won anything..Has been around 30 wins for 5 years..He looks like a guy who goes thru the motions..What's the appeal I'm missing??

Briggs said he couldn't play on the Spurs - I laugh at that comment.

Monroe would actually be a good fit for the spurs. He's a nice passing big man and can grow in a good environment. He's the type of player they would probably turn into a star.