Bonn1997 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jbeachboy wrote:

VCoug wrote:Winslow. He's been my guy since we untotally-believably were the only team to fall in the lottery. He's got good offensive and defensive production, good size, and is only 19 so he can still grow. He's a high floor/high ceiling prospect. He doesn't have the major red flags that guys like Mudiay, Kaminsky, and Porzingis all have and has a much higher ceiling than WCS.

what red flags do they have, does stein have red flags?

I'd say almost every statistic of Stein's (simple per game or advanced) is a red flag!

Like his having the second best defensive rating in all of college basketball?

I said almost. I'll grant he looks good in a small minority of the metrics I see

defense is hard to gauge with metrics

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jbeachboy wrote:

VCoug wrote:Winslow. He's been my guy since we untotally-believably were the only team to fall in the lottery. He's got good offensive and defensive production, good size, and is only 19 so he can still grow. He's a high floor/high ceiling prospect. He doesn't have the major red flags that guys like Mudiay, Kaminsky, and Porzingis all have and has a much higher ceiling than WCS.

what red flags do they have, does stein have red flags?

I'd say almost every statistic of Stein's (simple per game or advanced) is a red flag!

Like his having the second best defensive rating in all of college basketball?

I said almost. I'll grant he looks good in a small minority of the metrics I see

defense is hard to gauge with metrics

WCS
Monroe
Melo
Danny Green/Carroll
Galloway

maybe try for Brandon Knight

jbeachboy wrote:

VCoug wrote:Winslow. He's been my guy since we untotally-believably were the only team to fall in the lottery. He's got good offensive and defensive production, good size, and is only 19 so he can still grow. He's a high floor/high ceiling prospect. He doesn't have the major red flags that guys like Mudiay, Kaminsky, and Porzingis all have and has a much higher ceiling than WCS.

what red flags do they have, does stein have red flags?

Mudiay can't shoot and his production in the Chinese league wasn't that good. And the Chinese league is terrible. Josh Harrellson was player of the year there a couple years ago (http://www.ukathletics.com/blog/2013/07/former-cat-harrellson-named-player-of-the-year-in-china.html) putting up 22 and 18. And Harrellson is the definition of a marginal NBA player. If he's able to dominate I don't trust a player that didn't.

Kaminsky has little athleticism and is a bit of a sieve on defense. I worry that the lack of athleticism and strength can severely hurt his potential in the NBA when going against stronger more athletic players.

Everything about Porzingis is a red flag. The video I've seen of him scares me. He moves so awkwardly. Watching him run reminds me of Ewing near the end of his career when he no longer had knees. He's rail thin and there's absolutely no way his body holds up. He needs to put on like 50 pounds so he no longer looks like Shawn Bradley. And again, his numbers aren't that impressive.

WCS doesn't have a lot of red flags but he has very limited upside. Though, one major red flag is his poor rebounding. A big man whose value is almost exclusively derived from his defense should be a better rebounder. And rebounding is one of those skills that translates very well. So him being a poor rebounder in NCAA doesn't bode well. And his FG% and eFG% dropped every year in college (though his TS% did rise every year). I don't know how much value a terrible-rebounding Tyson Chandler/DeAndre Jordan actually has.

blkexec wrote:My selection changes after every workout video.

I don't think I will ever have a solid choice at 4.....Even after we pick!

Bonn1997 wrote:

blkexec wrote:My selection changes after every workout video.

I don't think I will ever have a solid choice at 4.....Even after we pick!

Unless Towns, Russell, or Okafor slips, it's a very tough choice

and no sane person thinks that any of them will slip.

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

blkexec wrote:My selection changes after every workout video.

I don't think I will ever have a solid choice at 4.....Even after we pick!

Unless Towns, Russell, or Okafor slips, it's a very tough choice

and no sane person thinks that any of them will slip.

Right. I see Hinkie taking Okafor if he is there and then trying to work out a trade for he or Embiid. I hope Phil at least finds out what it would take to get Okafor.

Just curious - if Hinkie says "I'll take Okafor for you if you take Mudiay for me. The cost is a 2018 pick top five protected." What do you say?

To me, if I'm Hinkie and I know the Knicks covet Okafor, this is absolutely what I do. Even if Mudiay is his real target.

well ... of course Hinkie won't just take Mudiay. If he wants to pass on OK4, he will try to get a kings ransom for him.

I think that I would probably give up our 2018 for the swap even though I have many doubts about Ok4.

ButchMcrae wrote:I was reading a Bleacher Report article from a few days back giving possible trade down scenarios and the one that jumped out to me that I think would be major score but I question how realistic it is, is:
Knicks trade #4 and Calderon to Kings for #6, Darren Collision and Nik Stauskas
You draft can still draft Stein #6 and pick up what I think is a very under rated point guard.
Realistically the only issue I see is how Sacramento actually makes that deal.

I'd prefer that we swap out Stauskas for McLemore -- then it gets interesting.