Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:The last 4 years Ty has shot like 36% or less from 3. That is critical for the triangle. Yeah, he gets a lot of assists, but I have the feeling
this is going to come back and bite us. I'll take my chances with the draft. I just don't know if we can assemble what we want, even if we get
rid of Calderon.

36% is good from 3 point range - that's like 54% on 2s.
The 10 assists against 2.5 turnovers a game is what I really like, though. Obviously it's a gamble. Mudiay or Winslow could be a HOFer and be gone by 7 for all we know. But I think most objective outsiders would say the gap between Calderon and Lawson is likely to be much bigger than the gap between picks 4 and 7 in this draft. I don't think Denver would do this trade. I think we'd have to replace Calderon with Galloway to get the conversation started.
Note though that if the plan is to get rid of Melo and Calderon and do real rebuilding, I'd rather stay with pick 4 and take a gamble on someone with more upside. I'd do this trade only bc I'm trying to find some way to win games now with Melo here.

Strictly talking about the Lawson and #7 for Jose and the #4 is kind of around market value, swap lottery and 1st rd plus 2nd rd in most cases. Lawson takes the place of the 1st and Calderon is the second rd pick and the price for getting into the top 5.

If that deal was on the table I would rather keep Calderon and push for more picks. Phil needs to get future picks not unload dead weight. I seriously doubt he sees Calderon as dead weight.

I don't know. There were a lot of reports of the Knicks trying to get rid of Calderon during the year.
You really think the difference between picks 4 and 7 is comparable to the difference between Calderon and Lawson?

You can't look it it that way...Question is what is the ceiling of the 4th pick versus the 7th..What is the ceiling of the 4th pick versus Lawson...Phil continues to compound the Calderon error by making more rash decisions..

holfresh wrote:From an obscure website:
http://en.yibada.com/articles/34961/20150526/nba-trade-rumors-demarcus-cousins-ty-lawson-available-for-knicks-no-4-pick.htm

The report that indicates their wiliness to trade their no.4 overall pick for an established player only showed the New York Knicks want a quick turnaround as soon as next season.

While only few teams were able to turn their fortunes around a year after a miserable campaign (like the 2008 NBA champion Boston Celtics and perhaps this year's Cleveland Cavaliers), Bleacher Report writer Dan Favale thinks the Knicks are capable of going to hero from zero, using their no.4 overall pick as a trade bait.

According to Favale, the Knicks could explore various trade options with their lottery pick. He mentioned the Denver Nuggets, Milwaukee Bucks, Philadelphia 76ers and the Sacramento Kings as potential trade partners, with the possibility of adding a conduit team to make the financial aspect of the trade works.

The following are Favale's Trade Proposals for the Knicks No.4 Pick:

A.) Ben McLemore and Willie Cauley-Stein (No. 6 Pick) to Knicks; Emmanuel Mudiay (No. 4 Pick) to Kings.

B.) John Henson, Khris Middleton (sign-and-trade) and Tyus Jones (No. 17 pick) to Knicks, Justise Winslow to Bucks.

C.) Wilson Chandler and Ty Lawson to Knicks, Jose Calderon and Emmanuel Mudiay to Nuggets.

D.) Joel Embiid to Knicks, Justice Winslow to Sixers

E.) DeMarcus Cousins to Knicks, Darren Collison, Tim Hardaway Jr., Carl Landry, PG Emmanuel Mudiay/D'Angelo Russell to Nuggets, Kenneth Faried and Ty Lawson to Kings.

From the five trade proposals given by Favale, the Cousins to Knicks trade is surely the most attractive trade option out there, but it's also the hardest one to make, since the Kings consider the big man their franchise player after locking him to a four-year, $62 million extension two seasons ago.

Perhaps, the most realistic trade options above would be a trade for Ty Lawson and Wilson Chandler for the reason that the Nuggets are on a rebuilding mode and they made it clear about their willingness to entertain trade talks involving all players on their roster, except Jusuf Nurkic and Danillo Gallinari (per Denver Post).

These two would make big impacts right away, as Lawson, who averaged at least 15 points and 8 dimes last season, is an explosive point guard capable of darting in and out of defense, while Chandler is versatile big man who can play either small forward and power forward position and is a career 34 percent 3-pt shooter. Both of them perfect for Phil Jackson's triangle offense.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

holfresh wrote:From an obscure website:
http://en.yibada.com/articles/34961/20150526/nba-trade-rumors-demarcus-cousins-ty-lawson-available-for-knicks-no-4-pick.htm

The report that indicates their wiliness to trade their no.4 overall pick for an established player only showed the New York Knicks want a quick turnaround as soon as next season.

While only few teams were able to turn their fortunes around a year after a miserable campaign (like the 2008 NBA champion Boston Celtics and perhaps this year's Cleveland Cavaliers), Bleacher Report writer Dan Favale thinks the Knicks are capable of going to hero from zero, using their no.4 overall pick as a trade bait.

According to Favale, the Knicks could explore various trade options with their lottery pick. He mentioned the Denver Nuggets, Milwaukee Bucks, Philadelphia 76ers and the Sacramento Kings as potential trade partners, with the possibility of adding a conduit team to make the financial aspect of the trade works.

The following are Favale's Trade Proposals for the Knicks No.4 Pick:

A.) Ben McLemore and Willie Cauley-Stein (No. 6 Pick) to Knicks; Emmanuel Mudiay (No. 4 Pick) to Kings.

B.) John Henson, Khris Middleton (sign-and-trade) and Tyus Jones (No. 17 pick) to Knicks, Justise Winslow to Bucks.

C.) Wilson Chandler and Ty Lawson to Knicks, Jose Calderon and Emmanuel Mudiay to Nuggets.

D.) Joel Embiid to Knicks, Justice Winslow to Sixers

E.) DeMarcus Cousins to Knicks, Darren Collison, Tim Hardaway Jr., Carl Landry, PG Emmanuel Mudiay/D'Angelo Russell to Nuggets, Kenneth Faried and Ty Lawson to Kings.

From the five trade proposals given by Favale, the Cousins to Knicks trade is surely the most attractive trade option out there, but it's also the hardest one to make, since the Kings consider the big man their franchise player after locking him to a four-year, $62 million extension two seasons ago.

Perhaps, the most realistic trade options above would be a trade for Ty Lawson and Wilson Chandler for the reason that the Nuggets are on a rebuilding mode and they made it clear about their willingness to entertain trade talks involving all players on their roster, except Jusuf Nurkic and Danillo Gallinari (per Denver Post).

These two would make big impacts right away, as Lawson, who averaged at least 15 points and 8 dimes last season, is an explosive point guard capable of darting in and out of defense, while Chandler is versatile big man who can play either small forward and power forward position and is a career 34 percent 3-pt shooter. Both of them perfect for Phil Jackson's triangle offense.

i think the knicks need to stop the quick fix trades since it never seems to work out. Draft the BPA at 4 then move onto free agency. Lets face it next season most likely isnt playoffs anyway but im more concerned with future success.

Realistically looking at the situation, Phil isn't here for a full rebuild..2 seasons of missing the playoffs won't go down well for him or Fisher..

H1AND1 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:Ugh. That would be a disaster. Trade our first high pick in years for a perennially injured PG. Double frigging ugh.

The rumore is Ty Lawson not Kyrie.

Lawson has played over 80 games only one season in his career and is not a good 3 point shooter. That's why I'm Not a fan.

Over 80? That would mean seasons where he's missed only 1 game? That's a pretty high standard. Melo has missed that in each of the past eleven years

yeah, that was a ridiculous assessment to make. most players dont hit 80. Ty isnt injury prone, he plays more than some and he certainly is a good three point shooter. Just an all around inaccurate post. As far as the rumor goes, if the goal is just to get rid of calderon, then dont do this deal...just stretch him. but I wouldnt mind having a lineup of Lawson-galloway-winslow-melo-deandre?

Ok, I worded it badly. In half of his NBA seasons he's played 65 or less games. And his 3 point percentage has dropped every single season he's played in the NBA. He shot 40% from 3 his first two seasons and then it's steadily dropped to 34% this past season.

Sorry, I'm just not a fan of trading the pick for him. But perhaps that makes me more biased against him and I'm judging him harshly. He is surely a gifted passer.

crzymdups wrote:I think trading the 4th pick for a package involving Lawson is bad and dumb. I would like to use the 4th pick to draft the 4th best player in the draft instead.

knickscity wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:Ugh. That would be a disaster. Trade our first high pick in years for a perennially injured PG. Double frigging ugh.

The rumore is Ty Lawson not Kyrie.

Lawson has played over 80 games only one season in his career and is not a good 3 point shooter. That's why I'm Not a fan.

Over 80? That would mean seasons where he's missed only 1 game? That's a pretty high standard. Melo has missed that in each of the past eleven years

yeah, that was a ridiculous assessment to make. most players dont hit 80. Ty isnt injury prone, he plays more than some and he certainly is a good three point shooter. Just an all around inaccurate post. As far as the rumor goes, if the goal is just to get rid of calderon, then dont do this deal...just stretch him. but I wouldnt mind having a lineup of Lawson-galloway-winslow-melo-deandre?

Ok, I worded it badly. In half of his NBA seasons he's played 65 or less games. And his 3 point percentage has dropped every single season he's played in the NBA. He shot 40% from 3 his first two seasons and then it's steadily dropped to 34% this past season.

Sorry, I'm just not a fan of trading the pick for him. But perhaps that makes me more biased against him and I'm judging him harshly. He is surely a gifted passer.

Understood, but you're really selling him short. he'd definitely be an allstar in the east especially if the Knicks can become a good team. I think the games played isnt a real guide either...one season was 66 games and he played 61 as a starter. the threes arent a real concern as Denver has been pretty awful the last two seasons. So even with the pick can become as good as Lawson you'd also get a lotto pick just a few spots down. Might be hard to pass on.

lawson showed promise in that up and down style george karl ran. this is the style that favors lawson's game since lawson is lacking in the half-court as an orchestrator. and although the triangle does not require an orchestrator, which also works in lawson's favor, so far as i can tell he is not much of a defender-- in fact he is terrible. i would not be interested in trading away a 4th pick for this kind of player.

WaltLongmire wrote:

blkexec wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

FistOfOakley wrote:i'm pretty sure if it was discussed it's something like ty lawson #7 pick for calderon and #4... which knowing phil might be enticing to him...

that is not a good trade tho...

So Lawson and dropping down 3 picks which we would still get one of WCS, Winslow, Kaminsky, Porzingis for our #4 pick and getting rid of Calderon and his contract isn't a good trade?? Hmmmmmmmmm that's a thinker to me and a trade i'd probably do.

Any pick 5-9 lands onr of the guys we talked about at 4.....its like we are still picking at 4.....and getting a vet PG.....while getting rid of Calderon. ....i see nothing wrong with that. But i doubt it happens.

We're assuming they would take Calderon. If MDA becomes their coach pretty sure he would not want Calderon, or do anything to help us out...

BUT- You figure MDA would want really want Mudiay at 4 if he was their coach and Mudiay was still there, so maybe he would do it.