holfresh wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

holfresh wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

FistOfOakley wrote:if tobias signs it basically means melo is going to PF fulltime... which i'm not opposed to but then you sign monroe or millsap and where do they play?

Tobias and Melo can play both the 3 or 4 so we can switch them up if need be. I wouldn't doubt if Phil thinks we could get by with Gallo/THJ/Calderon/Ledo and Shved at the 1 and 2 spots and maybe even bring in a veteran for cheap cause we'd have a lot of talent at the other 3 spots with some combo of Melo/T.Harris/P.Milsap and G.Monroe and we'd still have our draft pick to put somewhere.

Neither can defend the 4..

Neither one is as bad as people make them out to be and Harris is only 22 but they aren't making the all defensive team that's for sure.

Please see the 2013 NBA playoffs where David West back Melo down in the post every opportunity he got...

Don't need to i already watched it when it happened and of course you're over reacting which is done quite a bit on here when people will do everything they can to try and prove their point. Again.....Melo and Harris aren't as bad on defense as they're made out to be.

Uptown wrote:

holfresh wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

holfresh wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

holfresh wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

FistOfOakley wrote:if tobias signs it basically means melo is going to PF fulltime... which i'm not opposed to but then you sign monroe or millsap and where do they play?

Tobias and Melo can play both the 3 or 4 so we can switch them up if need be. I wouldn't doubt if Phil thinks we could get by with Gallo/THJ/Calderon/Ledo and Shved at the 1 and 2 spots and maybe even bring in a veteran for cheap cause we'd have a lot of talent at the other 3 spots with some combo of Melo/T.Harris/P.Milsap and G.Monroe and we'd still have our draft pick to put somewhere.

Neither can defend the 4..

Neither one is as bad as people make them out to be and Harris is only 22 but they aren't making the all defensive team that's for sure.

Please see the 2013 NBA playoffs where David West back Melo down in the post every opportunity he got...

Where is David West now?

What am I, his agent?

I get what your saying but the league is changing...Draymond Green is the starting PF on a championship contending team. I think a rotation of Melo, Tobias, Monroe and Stein can work.. In todays NBA the bigs are playing smaller and the smalls are playing a little bigger...Its all about having at least 4 out of your 5 players that can put the ball on the floor and stretch the floor. Aint as many bruisers up front like in the 80's...

When you do run into that team, you adjust....Stein, Monroe and Melo up front, rotate Tobias in when the other team goes small up front...

holfresh wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

holfresh wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

holfresh wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

FistOfOakley wrote:if tobias signs it basically means melo is going to PF fulltime... which i'm not opposed to but then you sign monroe or millsap and where do they play?

Tobias and Melo can play both the 3 or 4 so we can switch them up if need be. I wouldn't doubt if Phil thinks we could get by with Gallo/THJ/Calderon/Ledo and Shved at the 1 and 2 spots and maybe even bring in a veteran for cheap cause we'd have a lot of talent at the other 3 spots with some combo of Melo/T.Harris/P.Milsap and G.Monroe and we'd still have our draft pick to put somewhere.

Neither can defend the 4..

Neither one is as bad as people make them out to be and Harris is only 22 but they aren't making the all defensive team that's for sure.

Please see the 2013 NBA playoffs where David West back Melo down in the post every opportunity he got...

Don't need to i already watched it when it happened and of course you're over reacting which is done quite a bit on here when people will do everything they can to try and prove their point. Again.....Melo and Harris aren't as bad on defense as they're made out to be.

Way to argue with facts..

holfresh wrote:

Uptown wrote:

holfresh wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

holfresh wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

holfresh wrote:

newyorker4ever wrote:

FistOfOakley wrote:if tobias signs it basically means melo is going to PF fulltime... which i'm not opposed to but then you sign monroe or millsap and where do they play?

Tobias and Melo can play both the 3 or 4 so we can switch them up if need be. I wouldn't doubt if Phil thinks we could get by with Gallo/THJ/Calderon/Ledo and Shved at the 1 and 2 spots and maybe even bring in a veteran for cheap cause we'd have a lot of talent at the other 3 spots with some combo of Melo/T.Harris/P.Milsap and G.Monroe and we'd still have our draft pick to put somewhere.

Neither can defend the 4..

Neither one is as bad as people make them out to be and Harris is only 22 but they aren't making the all defensive team that's for sure.

Please see the 2013 NBA playoffs where David West back Melo down in the post every opportunity he got...

Where is David West now?

What am I, his agent?

I get what your saying but the league is changing...Draymond Green is the starting PF on a championship contending team. I think a rotation of Melo, Tobias, Monroe and Stein can work.. In todays NBA the bigs are playing smaller and the smalls are playing a little bigger...Its all about having at least 4 out of your 5 players that can put the ball on the floor and stretch the floor. Aint as many bruisers up front like in the 80's...

When you do run into that team, you adjust....Stein, Monroe and Melo up front, rotate Tobias in when the other team goes small up front...

Draymond Green defends the position..Atlanta got destroyed on the offensive boards with that type of line up..

Green gives good effort but he gets overmatched at times. Because of his size they also get killed on the offensive glass. When Melo played multiple minutes at 4, he put up big time numbers and was in the running for mvp ( top 5). He may be a bit too small for some 4's, but he can take advantage of them on the other end. Its all about matchups. Going small can make the other team adjust to you as Melo did many times during the 54 win season.

codeunknown wrote:

holfresh wrote:

codeunknown wrote:Given the cap trajectory, you want to be aggressive in free agency but it needs to be with some degree of foresight of the eventual player combination in the triangle. I don't at all like 2 of Monroe, Millsap and Harris + Melo. This stupidity would ruin another 4 years.

Also u are spending all your money on your front line in a league that has become a perimeter league...

I agree that recent officiating and superior offensive schemes have allowed 3 point shooting to become a trump card but I disagree with the generalization that its necessarily a perimeter league. Oftentimes, we segment offense/defense/rebounding and perimeter/post aspects to focus our discussions but in reality there is a complex interplay between them, a management of tradeoffs. In that regard, the current metrics that are used are in their infancy and the movement of parts that converge at the 3 pointer are inadequately credited.

The triangle, for example, is a post-geared offense with transition defense balance that in theory can run in perpetuity until a desirable option is found. It also uses screen-action perpendicular to the basket and mid-court strong-weak side exchanges, which are relative emphasized compared to some other strategies. Is this additional complexity justified given current percentages with simple down-screen and roll? Its arguable. Overall, I like it and, notably, the offense is predicated on a dominant post player.

Don't forget the many rule changes geared in increase scoring which it has..Rules changes like perimeter hand checks, forearm checks, defensive 3 seconds where bigs can't cheet to help perimeter defenders, defensive rerouting so u can't follow perimeter players off screens, etc. designed to help the perimeter player..

I like the post game as well but let's not forget the perpetutual motion with previous Phil Jacskon teams usually ended in MJ's or Kobe's hands..

you need one guy who can shoot and pass and they both gotta be pretty tough in the paint on both ends... this isn't solely a screen and roll and shoot 3s league...

BRIGGS wrote:

FistOfOakley wrote:schooling guys younger than you isnt anything to brag about.... alot of the big time seniors who enter the pros learn that the hard way...

Kaminsky is a guy who barely played his first two years. His experience really is junior and senior and he just turned 22 last month. Sans pick 1-2 and a few other guys--this is one of the only guys who knows how to actually play basketball.

codeunknown wrote:

holfresh wrote:

codeunknown wrote:

holfresh wrote:

codeunknown wrote:Given the cap trajectory, you want to be aggressive in free agency but it needs to be with some degree of foresight of the eventual player combination in the triangle. I don't at all like 2 of Monroe, Millsap and Harris + Melo. This stupidity would ruin another 4 years.

Also u are spending all your money on your front line in a league that has become a perimeter league...

I agree that recent officiating and superior offensive schemes have allowed 3 point shooting to become a trump card but I disagree with the generalization that its necessarily a perimeter league. Oftentimes, we segment offense/defense/rebounding and perimeter/post aspects to focus our discussions but in reality there is a complex interplay between them, a management of tradeoffs. In that regard, the current metrics that are used are in their infancy and the movement of parts that converge at the 3 pointer are inadequately credited.

The triangle, for example, is a post-geared offense with transition defense balance that in theory can run in perpetuity until a desirable option is found. It also uses screen-action perpendicular to the basket and mid-court strong-weak side exchanges, which are relative emphasized compared to some other strategies. Is this additional complexity justified given current percentages with simple down-screen and roll? Its arguable. Overall, I like it and, notably, the offense is predicated on a dominant post player.

Don't forget the many rule changes geared in increase scoring which it has..Rules changes like perimeter hand checks, forearm checks, defensive 3 seconds where bigs can't cheet to help perimeter defenders, defensive rerouting so u can't follow perimeter players off screens, etc. designed to help the perimeter player..

I like the post game as well but let's not forget the perpetutual motion with previous Phil Jacskon teams usually ended in MJ's or Kobe's hands..

I didn't forget it - I mentioned it in the first sentence. However, the rule changes are not one sided as you present. Specifically your discussion of the defensive 3 rule doesn't account for its context: the 2001-02 allowance of zone defenses, which affect coverage for both offensive modes but preferentially contain all-angle dribble penetration. So, is the current zeitgeist that perimeter players are crucial largely because of the rule changes or because of a relative contemporary decline in premier post players compared to perimeter players? Probably both.

To me, it remains that the best blend/execution of perimeter and post play is determined by the talent available. With respect to the triangle, I'm arguing that it presents selective advantages a priori regardless of your interpretation of the reasons for success of Phil Jackson's previous teams.