holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

holfresh wrote:Really, we are competing now for Shved and Amundson??..I just want to cry..

I don't understand this attitude at all. Shved was a joy to watch and very effective. Amundson a lunch-pail, bring-home-the-bacon competitor And you guys think there's no place on the team for them?

They're talented, inexpensive, leave-it-on-the-floor BB players who loved playing here.

That's a problem?

Bro we won 17 games last year..These are 3rd string players at every stop they have made in their careers...Now we are trying to sell them as integral pieces??..Come on man..

Forget the 17 wins. That's not how you should be judging if a player has a role on this team. I thought the idea was to have Shved and and a guy like Amundson off the bench. Lou is not a big deal if they bring him back or not. He's just another vet who you know what you're getting if you have to have a reserve off the bench.

The point of this summer is to revamp the top of the rotation with starting quality players. That will push the role players further down the rotation where they belong. I think Shved could be a useful 6th or 7th man for this team. His game fits this offense. Still we won't be even talking about these guys until after Phil fills out the top of the rotation with quality players.

First of all..The money some estimated that Shved should get is money we weren't willing to pay Shump...We should not be shelling out money to end of the bench guys before we sort out guys in the starting lineup..We sort out the front line players then see how the back up fits not the other way around..Outside of Melo, they are all replaceable..

This is exactly what is gonna happen. Shved is a good player for this system but he's also gotta be brought back at the right price. I don't think it's a major issue. We all saw how much better the team was with Shved on the floor. He was the only one who actually understood how to excel in the Triangle as the big guard. He's not a scrub. He actually has talent but since he hadn't really gotten going in his 1st 2 years people wrote him off. Phil and his staff saw his skills as a good fit and they were right.

What everyone has to start understanding and respecting is that Phil and his staff really do know what they need to make this all work. They know what kind of skills players need to have. It's not a guessing game with no frame of reference. They have 20 years of data points to go by. This offense has clear roles and needs. Don't let the bad start to this process fool you like so many others. Phil does know what he's trying to accomplish. There's a blueprint to his teams that he has clearly in mind.

Imagine if you knew an offense inside and out and you knew all the roles clearly and what it takes in a player to make the most of that role?

U are frigging kidding me right??????????

http://bottlegate.com/2015/05/26/video-shump-jr-smith-kyrie-and-lebron-dance-in-the-cold-tub-after-sweeping-atlanta/

Let me ask you, WTF does one thing have to do with another? We gave those guys a shot to make it work here. They were free to grab the reigns and lead the team. We should change what we do for JR and Shump? F that! We don't have Lebron and we can't get him. Those guys winning has nothing to do with the Knicks building their own team. It's just BS to somehow make it seem like it really has any bearing on what the Knicks do this summer. The Cavs were on their own path and NY wasn't headed towards anything with those guys. Good for them that they made the finals. We weren't getting there with them, that's for sure.

I don't care what they do. I only care about this team and what we do. We have to build a team that can compete and a franchise that can build a winning culture for years to come. We don't have a Lebron and as you now he's a once in a generation player. They don't grow on trees. We've got to build up this franchise the right way. With players that give a damn and aren't reliant on the best player in the league to make everything easy for them.

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

holfresh wrote:Really, we are competing now for Shved and Amundson??..I just want to cry..

I don't understand this attitude at all. Shved was a joy to watch and very effective. Amundson a lunch-pail, bring-home-the-bacon competitor And you guys think there's no place on the team for them?

They're talented, inexpensive, leave-it-on-the-floor BB players who loved playing here.

That's a problem?

Bro we won 17 games last year..These are 3rd string players at every stop they have made in their careers...Now we are trying to sell them as integral pieces??..Come on man..

Forget the 17 wins. That's not how you should be judging if a player has a role on this team. I thought the idea was to have Shved and and a guy like Amundson off the bench. Lou is not a big deal if they bring him back or not. He's just another vet who you know what you're getting if you have to have a reserve off the bench.

The point of this summer is to revamp the top of the rotation with starting quality players. That will push the role players further down the rotation where they belong. I think Shved could be a useful 6th or 7th man for this team. His game fits this offense. Still we won't be even talking about these guys until after Phil fills out the top of the rotation with quality players.

First of all..The money some estimated that Shved should get is money we weren't willing to pay Shump...We should not be shelling out money to end of the bench guys before we sort out guys in the starting lineup..We sort out the front line players then see how the back up fits not the other way around..Outside of Melo, they are all replaceable..

This is exactly what is gonna happen. Shved is a good player for this system but he's also gotta be brought back at the right price. I don't think it's a major issue. We all saw how much better the team was with Shved on the floor. He was the only one who actually understood how to excel in the Triangle as the big guard. He's not a scrub. He actually has talent but since he hadn't really gotten going in his 1st 2 years people wrote him off. Phil and his staff saw his skills as a good fit and they were right.

What everyone has to start understanding and respecting is that Phil and his staff really do know what they need to make this all work. They know what kind of skills players need to have. It's not a guessing game with no frame of reference. They have 20 years of data points to go by. This offense has clear roles and needs. Don't let the bad start to this process fool you like so many others. Phil does know what he's trying to accomplish. There's a blueprint to his teams that he has clearly in mind.

Imagine if you knew an offense inside and out and you knew all the roles clearly and what it takes in a player to make the most of that role?

U are frigging kidding me right??????????

http://bottlegate.com/2015/05/26/video-shump-jr-smith-kyrie-and-lebron-dance-in-the-cold-tub-after-sweeping-atlanta/

Let me ask you, WTF does one thing have to do with another? We gave those guys a shot to make it work here. They were free to grab the reigns and lead the team. We should change what we do for JR and Shump? F that! We don't have Lebron and we can't get him. Those guys winning has nothing to do with the Knicks building their own team. It's just BS to somehow make it seem like it really has any bearing on what the Knicks do this summer. The Cavs were on their own path and NY wasn't headed towards anything with those guys. Good for them that they made the finals. We weren't getting there with them, that's for sure.

I don't care what they do. I only care about this team and what we do. We have to build a team that can compete and a franchise that can build a winning culture for years to come. We don't have a Lebron and as you now he's a once in a generation player. They don't grow on trees. We've got to build up this franchise the right way. With players that give a damn and aren't reliant on the best player in the league to make everything easy for them.

U are blind dude..Whatever Phil does and says is gospel to u like MDA...It doesn't alarm you that everything he has done has backfired..Nope, not one iota..Onward..

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

holfresh wrote:Really, we are competing now for Shved and Amundson??..I just want to cry..

I don't understand this attitude at all. Shved was a joy to watch and very effective. Amundson a lunch-pail, bring-home-the-bacon competitor And you guys think there's no place on the team for them?

They're talented, inexpensive, leave-it-on-the-floor BB players who loved playing here.

That's a problem?

Bro we won 17 games last year..These are 3rd string players at every stop they have made in their careers...Now we are trying to sell them as integral pieces??..Come on man..

Forget the 17 wins. That's not how you should be judging if a player has a role on this team. I thought the idea was to have Shved and and a guy like Amundson off the bench. Lou is not a big deal if they bring him back or not. He's just another vet who you know what you're getting if you have to have a reserve off the bench.

The point of this summer is to revamp the top of the rotation with starting quality players. That will push the role players further down the rotation where they belong. I think Shved could be a useful 6th or 7th man for this team. His game fits this offense. Still we won't be even talking about these guys until after Phil fills out the top of the rotation with quality players.

First of all..The money some estimated that Shved should get is money we weren't willing to pay Shump...We should not be shelling out money to end of the bench guys before we sort out guys in the starting lineup..We sort out the front line players then see how the back up fits not the other way around..Outside of Melo, they are all replaceable..

This is exactly what is gonna happen. Shved is a good player for this system but he's also gotta be brought back at the right price. I don't think it's a major issue. We all saw how much better the team was with Shved on the floor. He was the only one who actually understood how to excel in the Triangle as the big guard. He's not a scrub. He actually has talent but since he hadn't really gotten going in his 1st 2 years people wrote him off. Phil and his staff saw his skills as a good fit and they were right.

What everyone has to start understanding and respecting is that Phil and his staff really do know what they need to make this all work. They know what kind of skills players need to have. It's not a guessing game with no frame of reference. They have 20 years of data points to go by. This offense has clear roles and needs. Don't let the bad start to this process fool you like so many others. Phil does know what he's trying to accomplish. There's a blueprint to his teams that he has clearly in mind.

Imagine if you knew an offense inside and out and you knew all the roles clearly and what it takes in a player to make the most of that role?

U are frigging kidding me right??????????

http://bottlegate.com/2015/05/26/video-shump-jr-smith-kyrie-and-lebron-dance-in-the-cold-tub-after-sweeping-atlanta/

Let me ask you, WTF does one thing have to do with another? We gave those guys a shot to make it work here. They were free to grab the reigns and lead the team. We should change what we do for JR and Shump? F that! We don't have Lebron and we can't get him. Those guys winning has nothing to do with the Knicks building their own team. It's just BS to somehow make it seem like it really has any bearing on what the Knicks do this summer. The Cavs were on their own path and NY wasn't headed towards anything with those guys. Good for them that they made the finals. We weren't getting there with them, that's for sure.

I don't care what they do. I only care about this team and what we do. We have to build a team that can compete and a franchise that can build a winning culture for years to come. We don't have a Lebron and as you now he's a once in a generation player. They don't grow on trees. We've got to build up this franchise the right way. With players that give a damn and aren't reliant on the best player in the league to make everything easy for them.

U are blind dude..Whatever Phil does and says is gospel to u like MDA...It doesn't alarm you that everything he has done has backfired..Nope, not one iota..Onward..

Define 'everything'

Basically all this crying because he didn't get back a late 1st rounder for Tyson?

Because you think we should have kept Shump and JR? (and had $10mil less to spend and had a lower lottery pick). I don't even get what the Shump JR crying is about! You realise we traded them to a good team who everyone thought would make it to the finals, don't you? Do you think if we'd traded them to the Sixers they'd still be playing in the finals? JR had negative value at the time, Shump was injured- they have played exactly the same way since being traded, it's just everyone looks better when you are winning- it doesn't change the fact that they had no value and wouldn't have gained it on a losing team.

JR got suspended two games these playoffs- what do you think the reaction would have been on these boards and in the media if he'd done that here?

smackeddog wrote:Do you think Denver gets blasted for 'helping' the Cavs get to the finals? That they should never have gotten rid of Mosgov and should have built around him- knicks media and fans are the worst in the league.

Crazy, they got 2 first round picks for Moz and he isn't the impact that Shump or JR turned out to be...I'm truly baffled..

holfresh wrote:But here we are discussing whether or not to lock up Shved for big money and do whatever is possible not to lose Admundson..

Cue in the video of Shump and JR in a tub with Bron drinking champaign on their way to the Finals

Why does this image haunt you? Are they in that bath tub if we didn't trade them?

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

holfresh wrote:Really, we are competing now for Shved and Amundson??..I just want to cry..

I don't understand this attitude at all. Shved was a joy to watch and very effective. Amundson a lunch-pail, bring-home-the-bacon competitor And you guys think there's no place on the team for them?

They're talented, inexpensive, leave-it-on-the-floor BB players who loved playing here.

That's a problem?

Bro we won 17 games last year..These are 3rd string players at every stop they have made in their careers...Now we are trying to sell them as integral pieces??..Come on man..

Forget the 17 wins. That's not how you should be judging if a player has a role on this team. I thought the idea was to have Shved and and a guy like Amundson off the bench. Lou is not a big deal if they bring him back or not. He's just another vet who you know what you're getting if you have to have a reserve off the bench.

The point of this summer is to revamp the top of the rotation with starting quality players. That will push the role players further down the rotation where they belong. I think Shved could be a useful 6th or 7th man for this team. His game fits this offense. Still we won't be even talking about these guys until after Phil fills out the top of the rotation with quality players.

First of all..The money some estimated that Shved should get is money we weren't willing to pay Shump...We should not be shelling out money to end of the bench guys before we sort out guys in the starting lineup..We sort out the front line players then see how the back up fits not the other way around..Outside of Melo, they are all replaceable..

This is exactly what is gonna happen. Shved is a good player for this system but he's also gotta be brought back at the right price. I don't think it's a major issue. We all saw how much better the team was with Shved on the floor. He was the only one who actually understood how to excel in the Triangle as the big guard. He's not a scrub. He actually has talent but since he hadn't really gotten going in his 1st 2 years people wrote him off. Phil and his staff saw his skills as a good fit and they were right.

What everyone has to start understanding and respecting is that Phil and his staff really do know what they need to make this all work. They know what kind of skills players need to have. It's not a guessing game with no frame of reference. They have 20 years of data points to go by. This offense has clear roles and needs. Don't let the bad start to this process fool you like so many others. Phil does know what he's trying to accomplish. There's a blueprint to his teams that he has clearly in mind.

Imagine if you knew an offense inside and out and you knew all the roles clearly and what it takes in a player to make the most of that role?

U are frigging kidding me right??????????

http://bottlegate.com/2015/05/26/video-shump-jr-smith-kyrie-and-lebron-dance-in-the-cold-tub-after-sweeping-atlanta/

Let me ask you, WTF does one thing have to do with another? We gave those guys a shot to make it work here. They were free to grab the reigns and lead the team. We should change what we do for JR and Shump? F that! We don't have Lebron and we can't get him. Those guys winning has nothing to do with the Knicks building their own team. It's just BS to somehow make it seem like it really has any bearing on what the Knicks do this summer. The Cavs were on their own path and NY wasn't headed towards anything with those guys. Good for them that they made the finals. We weren't getting there with them, that's for sure.

I don't care what they do. I only care about this team and what we do. We have to build a team that can compete and a franchise that can build a winning culture for years to come. We don't have a Lebron and as you now he's a once in a generation player. They don't grow on trees. We've got to build up this franchise the right way. With players that give a damn and aren't reliant on the best player in the league to make everything easy for them.

U are blind dude..Whatever Phil does and says is gospel to u like MDA...It doesn't alarm you that everything he has done has backfired..Nope, not one iota..Onward..

Define 'everything'

Basically all this crying because he didn't get back a late 1st rounder for Tyson?

Because you think we should have kept Shump and JR? (and had $10mil less to spend and had a lower lottery pick). I don't even get what the Shump JR crying is about! You realise we traded them to a good team who everyone thought would make it to the finals, don't you? Do you think if we'd traded them to the Sixers they'd still be playing in the finals? JR had negative value at the time, Shump was injured- they have played exactly the same way since being traded, it's just everyone looks better when you are winning- it doesn't change the fact that they had no value and wouldn't have gained it on a losing team.

JR got suspended two games these playoffs- what do you think the reaction would have been on these boards and in the media if he'd done that here?

It didn't really matter what we got back for Tyson just make sure it wasnt a big contract because Tyson was expiring..So that didn't work according to plan..

I'm crying because of JR and Shump, I thought with bigger pieces ahead of them we can go far with Chandler and Amare expiring...Essentially much like Cleveland is doing...10 mil is a walk in the park for 2 talented players like that...So JR got suspended, I don't want JR to marry my daughter or come home with me after church, I just want him to ball..I don't get why folks are hung up with JR partying with Rihanna when every young player does it..JR got suspended, big deal..Not even a speed bump in our season..

JR got suspended off a dirty play by the other team and he reacted..But he shot them into the Finals, what do u think the reaction on these boards and the media would be?

The whole point is you couldn't have constructed the team with greater pieces with JR and Shump on the roster- that's a fact. That was the problem. They would have eaten up over $11mil of cap space AND got you a lower draft pick- I don't understand how you don't understand this.

Who do you think Phil can get at a better price?

holfresh wrote:But here we are discussing whether or not to lock up Shved for big money and do whatever is possible not to lose Admundson..

Cue in the video of Shump and JR in a tub with Bron drinking champaign on their way to the Finals

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:But here we are discussing whether or not to lock up Shved for big money and do whatever is possible not to lose Admundson..

Cue in the video of Shump and JR in a tub with Bron drinking champaign on their way to the Finals

There's no need to exaggerate. No one is talking about Shved for big money. Amundson is an end of the bench reserve. Why are you talking like these are the front line moves this summer when they're not? Phil is going to be looking to bring in starting quality talent to revamp this team. He's also going to bring back some guys who were part of the team already and showed they can be good role players for this team. This is a perfectly logical approach. There's literally nothing wrong with this idea.

god bless your optimistic outlook on everything. Probably not realistic but better than doom and gloom i guess

He's gotta bring in more starting caliber players and aside from the draft he's got enough money to get a few good free agents. The most expensive guy will likely be a kid like Monroe. I don't think he'd be a problem at around $15 mil to start.

fwk00 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:But here we are discussing whether or not to lock up Shved for big money and do whatever is possible not to lose Admundson..

Cue in the video of Shump and JR in a tub with Bron drinking champaign on their way to the Finals

There's no need to exaggerate. No one is talking about Shved for big money. Amundson is an end of the bench reserve. Why are you talking like these are the front line moves this summer when they're not? Phil is going to be looking to bring in starting quality talent to revamp this team. He's also going to bring back some guys who were part of the team already and showed they can be good role players for this team. This is a perfectly logical approach. There's literally nothing wrong with this idea.

god bless your optimistic outlook on everything. Probably not realistic but better than doom and gloom i guess

Call it optimism if you like but there's a lot of pragmatic stuff that's been put in place to ensure a better outcome next year. Nixluva has the correct context. Nobody is selling the idea that Amundson is a starter. He's a guy who hustles, is great in the locker room, and is a fan favorite when on the floor.

Shved (assuming he signs) will be an inexpensive rotation guard who has some very nice upside. Two years ago, he was unobtainable. He's been dusted off here ans like Amundson is a fan favorite.

The Knicks are that much stronger next year. These are building blocks.

The image of JR and Shump should also remind players that Phil does well by them when they're on their way out.

fwk00 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Who do you think Phil can get at a better price?

The genius of the last part of the season was that they developed a ready made second and third string team that they can resign inexpensively, who know the system, and who have proven their chops.

Assuming the Knicks sign some free agents, they'll need to fill out the roster. I don't understand the animus toward this year's successive team. Lots of enthusiastic talent at the right price.