The Knicks could go cheap and go after Ajinca who has some good offense. Phil has options even tho it may not seem like it.

LivingLegend wrote:My primary concern with WCS --- is he a high IQ defender or will he just rely on his great athleticism and constantly leave his feet, get in foul trouble or be out of position?

I'm less worried about his offense because I see the basics of some very high level skills for a big man. I've seen him handle the ball fluidly out on the break, I've seen him make nice passes on the move, on the break and in the half court. I've seen him knock down some nice jumpers, I've seen him with a nice jump hook and I've seen him do some nice up and unders. The question becomes - can he put the offense together and be consistent on that end.

Defensively I actually hope he'll be better in the pro's. I think if he's primarily defending the 5 position - he'll be around the rim more often -- he'll be involved in pick and roll defense but I like the notion that he'll be around the basket more -- therefor being able to defend the rim and grab some rebounds than in college.

I really want WCS but I want him in a trade down -- not at #4 as the only asset.

Also think he would fit fine with Monroe despite spacing concerns -- WCS moves very well in 1/2 court sets and knows how to get behind the defense. You could argue that a great lob center (threat) is equally as tough to guard as a shooting big. The great lob center can suck defenders closer to the paint and open up the 3 where the great shooting center pulls the D out and opens up the lane. Same premise - just reversed.

This was actually Towns issue in college, not WCS. WCS was holding the defense down, when Towns was on the bench.
I'm not a big fan at giving Monroe the max. Towns will make the average big look like a great defender. I like Nix option. Find a scoring big for cheap. Wait until all the big name soak up all the money, then grab a cheap big to play next to Stein. Stein is like a 7ft guard on defense.

With increasingly frequency, Cauley-Stein is now showing he can step outside and swish. He sank both of his baseline jumpers in Saturday's rout of Auburn, including one from just a step inside the 3-point arc. Watch him warm up and see the big man make many more than he misses from 15 feet and beyond.

"How about Willie making jumpers?" a smirking Calipari said Saturday. "He's in the gym working, (so) shoot them in the game."

Cauley-Stein did it again Wednesday night against Mississippi State, but he badly missed his only jumper – a contested pull-up from the free-throw line – which his coach believes unnecessarily rattled his confidence. He finished with four points, eight rebounds and two blocks in another blowout victory.

"I want Willie to risk more. Risk! Go make a play," Calipari said. "He shot an airball at the foul line, so then he stopped playing offensively. That's crazy. You're the best player on the floor. Go play."

Even with the one ugly miss, Cauley-Stein has hit 33.9 percent of his two-point jump shots this season, according to HoopMath.com. That number, which has topped out around 36 percent, is solid for a guy his size. Consider that Kentucky shooting guard Aaron Harrison is at 33.3 percent.

"I've been watching that number all year. He's getting in that range where he can credibly say that's a weapon," Ford said. "And if he can, like I said, really with him it's, 'Good Lord.' Because all the physical stuff that an NBA team would wish for in a 7-footer, he has all of it.

"He's a junior, so you think at the level of junior the upside is sort of gone, but I think the feeling with Cauley-Stein has always been he's a late bloomer; he's a little bit behind the developmental curve of other guys. I think teams still see upside there, and part of it is when you see him add these little wrinkles to his game like that."

http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/kentucky/2015/02/26/nba-scouts-love-cauley-steins-improving-jumper/24069725/

blkexec wrote:https://medium.com/@Delblogo/stop-overthinking-it-the-knicks-are-drafting-willie-cauley-stein-3ef8934f2133

Stop Overthinking It, the Knicks Are Drafting Willie Cauley-Stein

It’s been a week since the Knicks tripped and fell in the NBA Draft lottery. Almost immediately since that moment, I’ve been endlessly obsessing about who the Knicks could possibly land with the fourth selection. Many have lazily deduced that Emmanuel Mudiay could/should/would be the Knicks choice. After all, Mudiay has consistently been rated amongst the top four talents in this years draft. The first two, Jahlil Okafor and Karl-Anthony Towns are expected to be selected with each of the top two picks. Then, seemingly every mock draft in the world has the 76ers taking D’Angelo Russell. (Excuse me, I have something in my eye). That leaves the Knicks the physically gifted, point-guard prospect Emmanuel Mudiay. Not only would Mudiay be the highest rated prospect left on the board, but the Knicks also have a need at point guard. So what are they waiting for? Start stitching the jersey! Not so fast my tormented friends. Questions about Mudiay’s game — needed development, not an ideal fit for the triangle offense — aside... If you’ve been reading the tea leaves, Phil Jackson has been consistent in what he’s looking to get out of this draft.

“Gotta have a defender… That’s a good starting point — a guy like Tyson Chandler is the defensive backup that we have to have. In this day and age in our game, there are so many screen and rolls, so many 3-point shooters, so many things that a player of size has to (do). Not only cover the paint and protect the basket but he has to be able to step out defensively and play a guard. And do some defensive work on the extreme part of the floor so it’s very important that that player have defensive capabilities.” — Phil Jackson 4/2/2015

Most assumed that simply meant that Phil Jackson would likely choose Karl Anthony-Towns over Jahlil Okafor; if given the opportunity. However some also noted that Jackson’s description sounded an awful lot like Willie Cauley-Stein; the UK center who chases point guards across full courts like a cheetah about to put a suffocating bite around the neck of a Thomson’s gazelle.

I feel I jinxed us in to taking WCS by telling BRIGGs that he was over-reacting and we definitely wouldn't

As for trading down in the draft to get him- I think the best you could do (without running the risk of another team drafting him) would be to trade our pick to the Magic for their pick plus the rights to Harris, not that I'm saying we should- I just think thats the only real option

smackeddog wrote:

nixluva wrote:Intersting article from February.

With increasingly frequency, Cauley-Stein is now showing he can step outside and swish. He sank both of his baseline jumpers in Saturday's rout of Auburn, including one from just a step inside the 3-point arc. Watch him warm up and see the big man make many more than he misses from 15 feet and beyond.

"How about Willie making jumpers?" a smirking Calipari said Saturday. "He's in the gym working, (so) shoot them in the game."

Cauley-Stein did it again Wednesday night against Mississippi State, but he badly missed his only jumper – a contested pull-up from the free-throw line – which his coach believes unnecessarily rattled his confidence. He finished with four points, eight rebounds and two blocks in another blowout victory.

"I want Willie to risk more. Risk! Go make a play," Calipari said. "He shot an airball at the foul line, so then he stopped playing offensively. That's crazy. You're the best player on the floor. Go play."

Even with the one ugly miss, Cauley-Stein has hit 33.9 percent of his two-point jump shots this season, according to HoopMath.com. That number, which has topped out around 36 percent, is solid for a guy his size. Consider that Kentucky shooting guard Aaron Harrison is at 33.3 percent.

"I've been watching that number all year. He's getting in that range where he can credibly say that's a weapon," Ford said. "And if he can, like I said, really with him it's, 'Good Lord.' Because all the physical stuff that an NBA team would wish for in a 7-footer, he has all of it.

"He's a junior, so you think at the level of junior the upside is sort of gone, but I think the feeling with Cauley-Stein has always been he's a late bloomer; he's a little bit behind the developmental curve of other guys. I think teams still see upside there, and part of it is when you see him add these little wrinkles to his game like that."

http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/kentucky/2015/02/26/nba-scouts-love-cauley-steins-improving-jumper/24069725/

I'm still in two minds about WCS, but to be fair a lot of people said Kentucky's loaded front line held back Towns and his stats, but people don't seem to extend that courtesy to WCS.

For me the main benefit of WCS, is he fills an important, overpriced position and he does it cheaply. Just as important, that allows you to then have a PF who isn't a good defender- so it gives you a lot more options when building the roster. WCS is pretty much our only shot at adding a defensive C this offseason- if we don't draft him, we're going to have to go another season with a poor front court defense.

With WCS I think he's the solid presence we need in the middle who can help to cover for some of our weaker defenders. He can't do it alone. We will still need to add a few more 2 way guys to the mix and there are some players we have a shot at.

I'm sold on WCS even tho I realize that most would prefer to trade down. If there's a deal to be made I think Phil will do it, but then it's hard to know exactly how other teams feel about moving up to #4. What team is anxious to move up in order to grab the guy they want outside of the top 3?

crzymdups wrote:There are reports that Boston wants to move up to 4 to take Willie Cauley Stein. Ainge has a pretty good draft record.

Yeah I read that. Boston can make a pretty good offer but I don't think Phil would bite and give a competitor what he wants. Just the fact that Ainge is interested makes it even more likely Phil would take WCS.

There are a few defensive centers in Free Agency but NONE of them are as fast as WCS. The dude is a freak of nature. His value in the NBA is huge because the floor is spread so much more than in college BB. The use of PnR in the NBA is much higher. Having a C who can shut down PnR and still recover to the paint is huge. He already knows what to do on D.

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:There are reports that Boston wants to move up to 4 to take Willie Cauley Stein. Ainge has a pretty good draft record.

Yeah I read that. Boston can make a pretty good offer but I don't think Phil would bite and give a competitor what he wants. Just the fact that Ainge is interested makes it even more likely Phil would take WCS.

There are a few defensive centers in Free Agency but NONE of them are as fast as WCS. The dude is a freak of nature. His value in the NBA is huge because the floor is spread so much more than in college BB. The use of PnR in the NBA is much higher. Having a C who can shut down PnR and still recover to the paint is huge. He already knows what to do on D.

I agree completely with the second part.

The first part I have no idea about - I can't claim to know what Phil will do on draft night. If it's WCS, I'll be happy.

Well i'm making an educated guess. Mudiay may be really talented but if he doesn't show signs he could be a game changer I think Phil will go for WCS and look to build his team on that foundation of defense up the middle. It's a tough call but most of the time these guards are all in the same range. What are the chances this kid is elite like Curry, Westbrook or Harden? There seems to always be another guard coming along every year. Great defensive C's are more rare. Phil and his staff will have tough decisions to make.

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:There are reports that Boston wants to move up to 4 to take Willie Cauley Stein. Ainge has a pretty good draft record.

Yeah I read that. Boston can make a pretty good offer but I don't think Phil would bite and give a competitor what he wants. Just the fact that Ainge is interested makes it even more likely Phil would take WCS.

There are a few defensive centers in Free Agency but NONE of them are as fast as WCS. The dude is a freak of nature. His value in the NBA is huge because the floor is spread so much more than in college BB. The use of PnR in the NBA is much higher. Having a C who can shut down PnR and still recover to the paint is huge. He already knows what to do on D.

I agree completely with the second part.

The first part I have no idea about - I can't claim to know what Phil will do on draft night. If it's WCS, I'll be happy.

Well i'm making an educated guess. Mudiay may be really talented but if he doesn't show signs he could be a game changer I think Phil will go for WCS and look to build his team on that foundation of defense up the middle. It's a tough call but most of the time these guards are all in the same range. What are the chances this kid is elite like Curry, Westbrook or Harden? There seems to always be another guard coming along every year. Great defensive C's are more rare. Phil and his staff will have tough decisions to make.

What is defense in the middle when these teams are taking 30 3's and spreading the floor. A guy like Kaminsky will have three times the strategic value that WCS has. You watch with Kaminsky--he's going to make teams cry they passed on him. The danger zone is if he goes to Detroit at 8 with the way they want to play. Right now Clevland will win the EC for the next 3-4 years hands down unless LBJ gets hurt. Their owner is a spender--I think they close down LBJs minutes to keep him fresh and they have been excellent at adding pieces. The team doesnt even need K love in fact I think he might be a addition by subtraction. But a team with Kamnisky--IF Kaminsky is aggressive and coached right--hes going to be scary from the PF. I think in his prime a basic night for Frank will be something like this

23 points 8-15 3-7/3's 4-5 FT 8 rebounds 5 assists 1 block 1 steal 37 minutes

smackeddog wrote:

crzymdups wrote:There are reports that Boston wants to move up to 4 to take Willie Cauley Stein. Ainge has a pretty good draft record.

Problem is, the Celtics aren't picking until 16, which too low for my liking in this draft. They do have 2 picks though, and 3 first rounders next year.

If the C's want 4 they can go get us Frank Kamninsky and add in picks 28(Fuzaro) and 45 Connughton. If they can flip their 16 pick down some into Kamisky--Ill do that deal for them.

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:There are reports that Boston wants to move up to 4 to take Willie Cauley Stein. Ainge has a pretty good draft record.

Yeah I read that. Boston can make a pretty good offer but I don't think Phil would bite and give a competitor what he wants. Just the fact that Ainge is interested makes it even more likely Phil would take WCS.

There are a few defensive centers in Free Agency but NONE of them are as fast as WCS. The dude is a freak of nature. His value in the NBA is huge because the floor is spread so much more than in college BB. The use of PnR in the NBA is much higher. Having a C who can shut down PnR and still recover to the paint is huge. He already knows what to do on D.

I agree completely with the second part.

The first part I have no idea about - I can't claim to know what Phil will do on draft night. If it's WCS, I'll be happy.

Well i'm making an educated guess. Mudiay may be really talented but if he doesn't show signs he could be a game changer I think Phil will go for WCS and look to build his team on that foundation of defense up the middle. It's a tough call but most of the time these guards are all in the same range. What are the chances this kid is elite like Curry, Westbrook or Harden? There seems to always be another guard coming along every year. Great defensive C's are more rare. Phil and his staff will have tough decisions to make.

What is defense in the middle when these teams are taking 30 3's and spreading the floor. A guy like Kaminsky will have three times the strategic value that WCS has. You watch with Kaminsky--he's going to make teams cry they passed on him. The danger zone is if he goes to Detroit at 8 with the way they want to play. Right now Clevland will win the EC for the next 3-4 years hands down unless LBJ gets hurt. Their owner is a spender--I think they close down LBJs minutes to keep him fresh and they have been excellent at adding pieces. The team doesnt even need K love in fact I think he might be a addition by subtraction. But a team with Kamnisky--IF Kaminsky is aggressive and coached right--hes going to be scary from the PF. I think in his prime a basic night for Frank will be something like this

23 points 8-15 3-7/3's 4-5 FT 8 rebounds 5 assists 1 block 1 steal 37 minutes

Also he runs the floor so well that this team will play faster offensively too. Phil is looking to restock the team with defensive players who can defend the perimeter too. Gallo is a good defender and we'll be bringing in Thanasis and maybe even that Labeyrie kid who seems to be a high energy guy.

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:There are reports that Boston wants to move up to 4 to take Willie Cauley Stein. Ainge has a pretty good draft record.

Yeah I read that. Boston can make a pretty good offer but I don't think Phil would bite and give a competitor what he wants. Just the fact that Ainge is interested makes it even more likely Phil would take WCS.

There are a few defensive centers in Free Agency but NONE of them are as fast as WCS. The dude is a freak of nature. His value in the NBA is huge because the floor is spread so much more than in college BB. The use of PnR in the NBA is much higher. Having a C who can shut down PnR and still recover to the paint is huge. He already knows what to do on D.

I agree completely with the second part.

The first part I have no idea about - I can't claim to know what Phil will do on draft night. If it's WCS, I'll be happy.

Well i'm making an educated guess. Mudiay may be really talented but if he doesn't show signs he could be a game changer I think Phil will go for WCS and look to build his team on that foundation of defense up the middle. It's a tough call but most of the time these guards are all in the same range. What are the chances this kid is elite like Curry, Westbrook or Harden? There seems to always be another guard coming along every year. Great defensive C's are more rare. Phil and his staff will have tough decisions to make.

What is defense in the middle when these teams are taking 30 3's and spreading the floor. A guy like Kaminsky will have three times the strategic value that WCS has. You watch with Kaminsky--he's going to make teams cry they passed on him. The danger zone is if he goes to Detroit at 8 with the way they want to play. Right now Clevland will win the EC for the next 3-4 years hands down unless LBJ gets hurt. Their owner is a spender--I think they close down LBJs minutes to keep him fresh and they have been excellent at adding pieces. The team doesnt even need K love in fact I think he might be a addition by subtraction. But a team with Kamnisky--IF Kaminsky is aggressive and coached right--hes going to be scary from the PF. I think in his prime a basic night for Frank will be something like this

23 points 8-15 3-7/3's 4-5 FT 8 rebounds 5 assists 1 block 1 steal 37 minutes

I like Kaminsky but IMO he's not what the Knicks need the most. The Knicks need to be able to defend the PnR and for our perimeter defenders to be able to defend more aggressively without fear of their man driving by them. That's the Importance of having WCS in the middle. He's so fast that he can help and still recover to protect the paint. It's not just size but fast size. Size with range defensively.

Also he runs the floor so well that this team will play faster offensively too. Phil is looking to restock the team with defensive players who can defend the perimeter too. Gallo is a good defender and we'll be bringing in Thanasis and maybe even that Labeyrie kid who seems to be a high energy guy.

Yeah the Knicks need a 7-1 PF who will sit in the paint with Greg Monroe and shut down our driving lanes and make us play 4-5. Did you watch the tournament? If so can you find a player named Willie Stein--he seemed to go awol. In his biggest game of his life he goes 2 points 5 rebounds. The first time some of you guys who dont watch enough CBB see him not engaged you will remember this post. I dont care what anyone else says--Willie Stein has bust written on his forehead if drafted this high.