mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/mcten/status/601427196255830016

Yeah, JR is changing right before our eyes.

who gives a crap what he says. let him continue to go 10 for 15.

everyone knows that he is an idiot

That's easy to say, but it is that line of thinking that keeps him from being consistent. It's like the Clippers living and dying by Jamaal Crawford except LeBron is a Griffin/Paul voltron

blkexec wrote:

mreinman wrote:

blkexec wrote:

mreinman wrote:

martin wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Nalod wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:How GM got a bag of nada for him.

This could be the move that saved Cleveland

Based on the way he has played, we could have gotten 2 first rounders for him ala mozgov (well not really but ...)

Is our GM making bad moves or are all the GM's dealing with him just getting lucky?

So where is the old trade threads people like to bring up?

Great find. This is where posters become captain obvious and only see whats in front of them. JR has always had the ability to take over games and get hot. Nobody ever slammed his talent.

Its his brain.

Don't waste our time with adolescent Rants.

so you have become mr defend phil at all costs?

have at it ... everybody has a right

How do you like phils moves so far (not to pre judge, just some commentary)

Nalod didn't bring up Phil, you did. He wasn't defending Phil as much as pointing out to you the obvious value of JR

the point of the thread was to discuss if Phil gave him (and shumpert) away for too cheap (in retrospect).

We should not have kept him since he was not succeeding here but how important was he to cleveland and should we have gotten more for him?

This is a valid question and being discussed ad nauseum all over the web.

JR Smith stock was dropping like a used car. This isn't real estate where your value slowly increases. The knicks are a bad product and everybody's value was dropping more and more after each lost. Sometimes you have to cut the string on your investment. Take the lost and move on. Thats what Phil did. Hopefully he can now see that JR wasn't the root problem, he was only a branch. The root problem was the building process around Melo was flawed from the day he arrived.....The only time we got it right, was when we had a team full of vets. It wasn't Linsanity, it was Kidd, Rasheed, Kurt Thomas, Camby.....Thats how you build around Melo.

Why you think he doesn't want a young PG.....and prefers a veteran PG. Melo needs more vets around him and less JR's around him. Phil made a decision, and got the most he was going to get. He could've did something different by adding all the retired vets he could find. Wait until JR's stock increased, then trade him. But that was his choice. At that time of the trade, thats the most he was going to get.

I agree with pretty much everything that you wrote.

However, looking back, how do you think phil judges himself on the Tyson and JR/Shumpert trade?

I think Phil was just having a garage sale, thinking we needed a cultural change anyway. We need a high pick. And he feels they are replaceable. Of course he jumped the gun a little with his trades. He was better off putting some of these guys on the shelf for a season. But he probably labeled Tyson and Shump as injury prone. JR as an immature player that doesn't fit the triangle. I think looking back on it, Phil is probably saying he should've taken a different approach. Because he just made his job even harder. But he also got rid of players that were part of a bad culture in NY. But he could've gotten back more than what he did. Thats simply growing pains as a rookie GM. Lets hope it doesn't continue, and he's actually learning on the go. If anybody is kicking themselves right now, it's Dolan. What return did Dolan get so far, for his multi million dollar management investment (Fisher and Phil). So far nothing....

Next season will be the real test where Fisher and Phil and Dolan will be graded. If we are in the same position next year, thats painful.....And Dolan will continue to lose money and stock value. Might be time to sale if Dolan was a smart investor.....Giving rookies millions of dollars to turn this franchise around is just as risky as hoping JR will mature under Melo's watch. Melo ain't baby sitting nobody but his kids.

Agreed but he would've accomplished a complete change of culture had he not re-signed Melo

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/mcten/status/601427196255830016

Yeah, JR is changing right before our eyes.

who gives a crap what he says. let him continue to go 10 for 15.

everyone knows that he is an idiot

That's easy to say, but it is that line of thinking that keeps him from being consistent. It's like the Clippers living and dying by Jamaal Crawford except LeBron is a Griffin/Paul voltron

of course it held him back, he is one of the premier talents in the NBA, but its obvious that nobody is fixing this dudes head.

I know and that's why I say it's not a leadership thing.

I think it is. Idiots need to be contained as much as possible.

Melo is more like Arod. Caring too much that people should like him.

I disagree..Melo don't care if you like him...

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/mcten/status/601427196255830016

Yeah, JR is changing right before our eyes.

who gives a crap what he says. let him continue to go 10 for 15.

everyone knows that he is an idiot

That's easy to say, but it is that line of thinking that keeps him from being consistent. It's like the Clippers living and dying by Jamaal Crawford except LeBron is a Griffin/Paul voltron

of course it held him back, he is one of the premier talents in the NBA, but its obvious that nobody is fixing this dudes head.

I know and that's why I say it's not a leadership thing.

I think it is. Idiots need to be contained as much as possible.

Melo is more like Arod. Caring too much that people should like him.

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/mcten/status/601427196255830016

Yeah, JR is changing right before our eyes.

who gives a crap what he says. let him continue to go 10 for 15.

everyone knows that he is an idiot

That's easy to say, but it is that line of thinking that keeps him from being consistent. It's like the Clippers living and dying by Jamaal Crawford except LeBron is a Griffin/Paul voltron

of course it held him back, he is one of the premier talents in the NBA, but its obvious that nobody is fixing this dudes head.

I know and that's why I say it's not a leadership thing.

I think it is. Idiots need to be contained as much as possible.

Melo is more like Arod. Caring too much that people should like him.

I think you care too much about Melo.

I do. I hold him to a high standard and I expect him to be a leader and a team player/passer being that phil when all in with him.

Who should I care about? Galloway?

Its all about melo ... does this guy fit with melo, does that guy fit with melo etc ...

he needs to bring it!

DrAlphaeus wrote:

Hilarious..

fwk00 wrote:JR was worth what the market would pay with one caveat. Throughout the trading cycle, Jackson made sure everyone was well taken care of. ALL the (playable) ex-Knicks landed in good situations. To some degree, Jackson ( a proxy basketball god) dictated which teams would get stocked, locked and loaded for the playoffs. I don't think a single trading partner thought they pulled one over on Jackson. This was Jackson and Company seeding a LOT of goodwill in rival team offices.

What goes around comes around. Expect the Knicks to be on the receiving end of some one-sided trades over time. This is why he admonished JR when JR criticized the Knicks after the trade - JR should be thanking Phil for a solid instead of acting as though Cleveland was a given. Phil knows what he's doing even if some Knicks fans don't get it.

the knicks are never on the receiving end of one-sided trades.