nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:I honestly dont see why "CLARITY" is needed. We all have eyes and ears. We SAW an awful season, we HEARD Phil admit is was. This is a different animal for Phil Jackson. He didnt win his rings as an executive. Perhaps some of that can transfer into his new position, but so far it hasnt and he personally has admitted so. If he continues to talk about it....so will I.

I dont think there is a Knicks fan alive that doesnt want the team to be successful, and to constantly harp on folks who have doubts actually says more about you. I would love forward to the draft and free agency no matter who is in office, but for the record do I trust Phil the "executive?" No, and I no reason to do so at this point. Do I hope Phil can rebuild the team and make it good or better? Yes.

This thread isn't about legitimate complaints or dissatisfaction with the current regime or roster. If you read what I said I was extremely specific that I was addressing fan and media misrepresentations and exaggeration. I can't be anymore clear than that. Please go back and read the quotes and then compare that to the way some fans and media have responded or reported about those quotes and they don't match at all.

Also the Knicks situation isn't nearly as grim as some fans and media make it out to be. We'll see how things go over the next few months and then we can talk about those moves. There's going to be a lot to discuss.

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:I honestly dont see why "CLARITY" is needed. We all have eyes and ears. We SAW an awful season, we HEARD Phil admit is was. This is a different animal for Phil Jackson. He didnt win his rings as an executive. Perhaps some of that can transfer into his new position, but so far it hasnt and he personally has admitted so. If he continues to talk about it....so will I.

I dont think there is a Knicks fan alive that doesnt want the team to be successful, and to constantly harp on folks who have doubts actually says more about you. I would love forward to the draft and free agency no matter who is in office, but for the record do I trust Phil the "executive?" No, and I no reason to do so at this point. Do I hope Phil can rebuild the team and make it good or better? Yes.

This thread isn't about legitimate complaints or dissatisfaction with the current regime or roster. If you read what I said I was extremely specific that I was addressing fan and media misrepresentations and exaggeration. I can't be anymore clear than that. Please go back and read the quotes and then compare that to the way some fans and media have responded or reported about those quotes and they don't match at all.

Also the Knicks situation isn't nearly as grim as some fans and media make it out to be. We'll see how things go over the next few months and then we can talk about those moves. There's going to be a lot to discuss.

Who is capable of labeling anything as being misrepresentation or exaggeration? Personally I think All criticism Phil has received is fair as he himself has admitted the job that has been done was not a good one at all. But I will say the best way to change any belief to do better. He'll have his chance to do so very soon.

There's a reason that direct quotes are used. This way it avoids the problem of someone changing things to fit their own narrative. That was becoming a real problem, so i created this thread to clear the air. When you read Phil's actual statements in context it doesn't always match the media spin and some fans posts.

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:I honestly dont see why "CLARITY" is needed. We all have eyes and ears. We SAW an awful season, we HEARD Phil admit is was. This is a different animal for Phil Jackson. He didnt win his rings as an executive. Perhaps some of that can transfer into his new position, but so far it hasnt and he personally has admitted so. If he continues to talk about it....so will I.

I dont think there is a Knicks fan alive that doesnt want the team to be successful, and to constantly harp on folks who have doubts actually says more about you. I would love forward to the draft and free agency no matter who is in office, but for the record do I trust Phil the "executive?" No, and I no reason to do so at this point. Do I hope Phil can rebuild the team and make it good or better? Yes.

This thread isn't about legitimate complaints or dissatisfaction with the current regime or roster. If you read what I said I was extremely specific that I was addressing fan and media misrepresentations and exaggeration. I can't be anymore clear than that. Please go back and read the quotes and then compare that to the way some fans and media have responded or reported about those quotes and they don't match at all.

Also the Knicks situation isn't nearly as grim as some fans and media make it out to be. We'll see how things go over the next few months and then we can talk about those moves. There's going to be a lot to discuss.

Who is capable of labeling anything as being misrepresentation or exaggeration? Personally I think All criticism Phil has received is fair as he himself has admitted the job that has been done was not a good one at all. But I will say the best way to change any belief to do better. He'll have his chance to do so very soon.

There's a reason that direct quotes are used. This way it avoids the problem of someone changing things to fit their own narrative. That was becoming a real problem, so i created this thread to clear the air. When you read Phil's actual statements in context it doesn't always match the media spin and some fans posts.

I like the Knicks but not a fan of fulling me 33d time.
And mister Dolan will not be able to do it even with help of Zen master whom I like.
I was waiting 5 long year before Ranges proved to me that they are worth wasting my time.
Knicks are in very similar shthole as Rangers in 2004 and thinking that they will miraculously became good in 1-2-3 years is not an optimistic but rather completely idiotic.
It took 5 years for Rangers to became watchable and another 5 to became an elite team.
It is CLEAR to everyone who understand a bit about the game that it takes a lot of time and hard work to build The Team.
I will only believe it when I will see it.

It's not about an instant title team. We just want to see the roster upgraded this summer to highest degree possible and the franchise setup for a good future. This is a process tho I wouldn't say it will take 5 yrs. We're not really starting over from scratch. We'll be adding vet free agents to play with Melo and our draft pick. It shouldn't be hard to form a playoff team with the right additions.

CrushAlot wrote:

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:I honestly dont see why "CLARITY" is needed. We all have eyes and ears. We SAW an awful season, we HEARD Phil admit is was. This is a different animal for Phil Jackson. He didnt win his rings as an executive. Perhaps some of that can transfer into his new position, but so far it hasnt and he personally has admitted so. If he continues to talk about it....so will I.

I dont think there is a Knicks fan alive that doesnt want the team to be successful, and to constantly harp on folks who have doubts actually says more about you. I would love forward to the draft and free agency no matter who is in office, but for the record do I trust Phil the "executive?" No, and I no reason to do so at this point. Do I hope Phil can rebuild the team and make it good or better? Yes.

This thread isn't about legitimate complaints or dissatisfaction with the current regime or roster. If you read what I said I was extremely specific that I was addressing fan and media misrepresentations and exaggeration. I can't be anymore clear than that. Please go back and read the quotes and then compare that to the way some fans and media have responded or reported about those quotes and they don't match at all.

Also the Knicks situation isn't nearly as grim as some fans and media make it out to be. We'll see how things go over the next few months and then we can talk about those moves. There's going to be a lot to discuss.

Who is capable of labeling anything as being misrepresentation or exaggeration? Personally I think All criticism Phil has received is fair as he himself has admitted the job that has been done was not a good one at all. But I will say the best way to change any belief to do better. He'll have his chance to do so very soon.

There's a reason that direct quotes are used. This way it avoids the problem of someone changing things to fit their own narrative. That was becoming a real problem, so i created this thread to clear the air. When you read Phil's actual statements in context it doesn't always match the media spin and some fans posts.

I like the Knicks but not a fan of fulling me 33d time.
And mister Dolan will not be able to do it even with help of Zen master whom I like.
I was waiting 5 long year before Ranges proved to me that they are worth wasting my time.
Knicks are in very similar shthole as Rangers in 2004 and thinking that they will miraculously became good in 1-2-3 years is not an optimistic but rather completely idiotic.
It took 5 years for Rangers to became watchable and another 5 to became an elite team.
It is CLEAR to everyone who understand a bit about the game that it takes a lot of time and hard work to build The Team.
I will only believe it when I will see it.

The Knicks won 54 games and the Atlantic 2 years ago. It was pretty awesome but it wasn't sustainable because some of the key role players were 40 or pushing 40. The new regime has invested in player development. What is going on in Westchester is pretty awesome and nothing like what the Knicks were doing when they were affiliated with Erie. Having a top 5 draft pick could change the franchise for the next 10-15years. Melo is already in NY and the Knicks have a ton of cap space. Galloway is a baller. Cole can be. Jose is a lot better with capable teammates. The Knicks have a lottery pick. PJax has said he is looking at bringing in 3 players. There are reports that the Knicks are looking at buying out contracts in Europe. I think things are going to get a lot better.

Just comparing this to 2010 I see this summer as part of a more comprehensive approach. It's not all the eggs in one basket. Like you said there are multiple aspects to this franchise rebuild.

jrodmc wrote:

dk7th wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

dk7th wrote:my beef is simple: phil jackson felt compelled to sign a:

30-yr-old
low bbiq
inefficient scoring
non-defending
non-playmaking
poorly-conditioned
isolation player
with a huge contract and a no-trade clause
who is breaking down
who has yet to prove he can play in the system the president and coach want to install

never mind about the triangle being for so-called "lesser" players. the triangle relies on all the players, and is for all players.

the plan is clearly half-baked. he claimed he had a playoff team on his hands. he himself admitted the season was "a project gone awry" and that his "experiment has fallen flat on its face."

these are the reasons there's so much argument about which player to draft, should the knicks be so lucky as to have dibs, and which free agents to bring in, should there be any genuine interest among them to come into an extremely sketchy situation.

it's because the design or plan for the future contains a high probability of remaining untenable due to the alleged plan being both inchoate and chaotic, with no clear and strong leadership in place.

You forgot the attention whore, bitch type, playoff-useless rebounding.

Subtitles: I hate Melo, hence I will hate Phil.

It's both simple and clear; a plan and outlook that ignores reality, draft picks, cap space and past comparitive history. If the Knicks make the playoffs, it's fools gold jv nonsense. If the Knicks don't make the playoffs, it's vindication in the opinion that a hallmark player for the franchise is actually an untalented, greedy moron. And that any executive or coach or management type, that is on board with said player, no matter what their background may include, is suffering from alzheimers, insipient insanity, or worse.

But when you have hate, you really need not consider evidence. Other than the fact that you just know that your hate and inner shining light of BB altruism would be much better for all concerned. Because you are not arrogant about your own opinion and tremendous abilities. Despite the fact that real people are doing real NBA things and you are typing endless negative drivel on a fan board.

their record is real, the quotes are real, the contract is real. what are you babbling about this time?

Their resumes are real, their rings are real, the cap space and the draft picks are real, the playoffs were real and the NBA is a real billion dollar industry with lots and lots of real millionaire players, coaches and GM's.

And you are what, again? Oh that's right, typing about being proactively ethical and smarter than people making millions of dollars doing things you can't and don't.

dk7th wrote:

RonRon wrote:CA has made improvements in the past couple of years, especially the past 2 in terms of playing more team ball and less 1v1 ISO plays
Even this past year, especially after the trade of JR Smith, he has been moving the ball and making the simple play at times

DK, I see the holes in CA game but he isn't as bad as you make him out to be
He is overpaid and does not provide the leadership and defense that a player of his contract should

Put him with a team like Houston and he could be utilized as he was in TEAM USA with Hardens ability to penetrate and draw double/triple teams, with some very good and versatile defenders

Beverely
Harden
Ariza
CA
D12

Josh Smith
Brewer or KJ McDaniels development
MLE signing

or

Harden *could play the PG and have a BIG lineup*
Brewer *Brewer would defend the opponents PG or with the MLE signing or development of KJ MCDANIELS to harrass the opponents PG with their size/athleticism* /Ariza/KJ McDaniels

Ariza/CA
Josh Smith if they keep one of Terrence JOnes/DMO

D12

D12/Josh Smith would have to work on their FT shooting and CA would not have to utilize as much of his energy and be able to produce in the 4th quarter and give them another weapon that they miss..

yes ronron he has improved-- marginally over the last two seasons in sharing the ball. but as you say, his defense is substandard and his leadership is non-existent.

from there you waft into the ether with pipe dream smoke. phil jackson has a huge job cut out for him. not only do you need a genuine all-star caliber free agent, you need one that provides the very leadership and defensive prowess that carmelo anthony so woefully lacks. and what are the odds of jackson pulling that off? i will tell you: not strong!

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

dk7th wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

dk7th wrote:my beef is simple: phil jackson felt compelled to sign a:

30-yr-old
low bbiq
inefficient scoring
non-defending
non-playmaking
poorly-conditioned
isolation player
with a huge contract and a no-trade clause
who is breaking down
who has yet to prove he can play in the system the president and coach want to install

never mind about the triangle being for so-called "lesser" players. the triangle relies on all the players, and is for all players.

the plan is clearly half-baked. he claimed he had a playoff team on his hands. he himself admitted the season was "a project gone awry" and that his "experiment has fallen flat on its face."

these are the reasons there's so much argument about which player to draft, should the knicks be so lucky as to have dibs, and which free agents to bring in, should there be any genuine interest among them to come into an extremely sketchy situation.

it's because the design or plan for the future contains a high probability of remaining untenable due to the alleged plan being both inchoate and chaotic, with no clear and strong leadership in place.

You forgot the attention whore, bitch type, playoff-useless rebounding.

Subtitles: I hate Melo, hence I will hate Phil.

It's both simple and clear; a plan and outlook that ignores reality, draft picks, cap space and past comparitive history. If the Knicks make the playoffs, it's fools gold jv nonsense. If the Knicks don't make the playoffs, it's vindication in the opinion that a hallmark player for the franchise is actually an untalented, greedy moron. And that any executive or coach or management type, that is on board with said player, no matter what their background may include, is suffering from alzheimers, insipient insanity, or worse.

But when you have hate, you really need not consider evidence. Other than the fact that you just know that your hate and inner shining light of BB altruism would be much better for all concerned. Because you are not arrogant about your own opinion and tremendous abilities. Despite the fact that real people are doing real NBA things and you are typing endless negative drivel on a fan board.

their record is real, the quotes are real, the contract is real. what are you babbling about this time?

Their resumes are real, their rings are real, the cap space and the draft picks are real, the playoffs were real and the NBA is a real billion dollar industry with lots and lots of real millionaire players, coaches and GM's.

And you are what, again? Oh that's right, typing about being proactively ethical and smarter than people making millions of dollars doing things you can't and don't.

Note that DK is citing the real results here. All you're doing is citing future stuff that you imagine will work well (draft picks, cap space) or past stuff before these guys were Knicks (rings).

Yeah but he is a guy that posted the Knicks weren't worth his time to watch during the 54 win season and that it was 'fools gold' and yet made a point of watching the 37 win team and aimed almost all of his criticism of that team at the foot of one player. This despite Tyson, Shump,Smith, and Felton imploding, Steve Mills taking all authority from Woodson and not making a single move to support his coach or improve his team.

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

RonRon wrote:CA has made improvements in the past couple of years, especially the past 2 in terms of playing more team ball and less 1v1 ISO plays
Even this past year, especially after the trade of JR Smith, he has been moving the ball and making the simple play at times

DK, I see the holes in CA game but he isn't as bad as you make him out to be
He is overpaid and does not provide the leadership and defense that a player of his contract should

Put him with a team like Houston and he could be utilized as he was in TEAM USA with Hardens ability to penetrate and draw double/triple teams, with some very good and versatile defenders

Beverely
Harden
Ariza
CA
D12

Josh Smith
Brewer or KJ McDaniels development
MLE signing

or

Harden *could play the PG and have a BIG lineup*
Brewer *Brewer would defend the opponents PG or with the MLE signing or development of KJ MCDANIELS to harrass the opponents PG with their size/athleticism* /Ariza/KJ McDaniels

Ariza/CA
Josh Smith if they keep one of Terrence JOnes/DMO

D12

D12/Josh Smith would have to work on their FT shooting and CA would not have to utilize as much of his energy and be able to produce in the 4th quarter and give them another weapon that they miss..

yes ronron he has improved-- marginally over the last two seasons in sharing the ball. but as you say, his defense is substandard and his leadership is non-existent.

from there you waft into the ether with pipe dream smoke. phil jackson has a huge job cut out for him. not only do you need a genuine all-star caliber free agent, you need one that provides the very leadership and defensive prowess that carmelo anthony so woefully lacks. and what are the odds of jackson pulling that off? i will tell you: not strong!

you are so sad! 3 years and you cant let go. 3 years after getting kicked of realgM and you cant let go. Your singleminded purpose is equal parts unhealthy, frightening and sad. Move on. You have literally been crying about MElo for 3 years. You know what? He's WON. He's BEATEN YOU. Because he doesn't give a fart in the wind about some donkee from the internet but you have been miserably posting fodder about him for 3+ years now. To continue on for so long with such negativity... man I honestly feel sorry for you man. Its really time to let go. You will be happier.

yes carmelo anthony has certainly won, but who has he defeated?

certainly he has not beaten me: but he certainly has beaten the knicks as well as himself. that's what malignant narcissists do... they destroy themselves and others, all while being blithely unaware of the damage they have caused to themselves and others.

that's the reason i post. the patterns and the relationships are there in plain view, in print, and in the knicks record since he came to new york. sports is a business for the most part, but it is also about people. this is an idea related to what splat phrased as "character = destiny"

but hey he has all that money so i guess his legions of fans are happy for him. i expect you are happy for him as well, although it's a shame you don't understand these things, despite your share of suffering in this life.

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

dk7th wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

dk7th wrote:my beef is simple: phil jackson felt compelled to sign a:

30-yr-old
low bbiq
inefficient scoring
non-defending
non-playmaking
poorly-conditioned
isolation player
with a huge contract and a no-trade clause
who is breaking down
who has yet to prove he can play in the system the president and coach want to install

never mind about the triangle being for so-called "lesser" players. the triangle relies on all the players, and is for all players.

the plan is clearly half-baked. he claimed he had a playoff team on his hands. he himself admitted the season was "a project gone awry" and that his "experiment has fallen flat on its face."

these are the reasons there's so much argument about which player to draft, should the knicks be so lucky as to have dibs, and which free agents to bring in, should there be any genuine interest among them to come into an extremely sketchy situation.

it's because the design or plan for the future contains a high probability of remaining untenable due to the alleged plan being both inchoate and chaotic, with no clear and strong leadership in place.

You forgot the attention whore, bitch type, playoff-useless rebounding.

Subtitles: I hate Melo, hence I will hate Phil.

It's both simple and clear; a plan and outlook that ignores reality, draft picks, cap space and past comparitive history. If the Knicks make the playoffs, it's fools gold jv nonsense. If the Knicks don't make the playoffs, it's vindication in the opinion that a hallmark player for the franchise is actually an untalented, greedy moron. And that any executive or coach or management type, that is on board with said player, no matter what their background may include, is suffering from alzheimers, insipient insanity, or worse.

But when you have hate, you really need not consider evidence. Other than the fact that you just know that your hate and inner shining light of BB altruism would be much better for all concerned. Because you are not arrogant about your own opinion and tremendous abilities. Despite the fact that real people are doing real NBA things and you are typing endless negative drivel on a fan board.

their record is real, the quotes are real, the contract is real. what are you babbling about this time?

Their resumes are real, their rings are real, the cap space and the draft picks are real, the playoffs were real and the NBA is a real billion dollar industry with lots and lots of real millionaire players, coaches and GM's.

And you are what, again? Oh that's right, typing about being proactively ethical and smarter than people making millions of dollars doing things you can't and don't.

Note that DK is citing the real results here. All you're doing is citing future stuff that you imagine will work well (draft picks, cap space) or past stuff before these guys were Knicks (rings).

Yeah but he is a guy that posted the Knicks weren't worth his time to watch during the 54 win season and that it was 'fools gold' and yet made a point of watching the 37 win team and aimed almost all of his criticism of that team at the foot of one player. This despite Tyson, Shump,Smith, and Felton imploding, Steve Mills taking all authority from Woodson and not making a single move to support his coach or improve his team.

you are misrepresenting my history. i watched the knicks closely during their 54-win campaign, and not so much the following season. you are conflating those two season and my watching habits to defame me.

please stop-- it's ugly behavior.

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

dk7th wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

dk7th wrote:my beef is simple: phil jackson felt compelled to sign a:

30-yr-old
low bbiq
inefficient scoring
non-defending
non-playmaking
poorly-conditioned
isolation player
with a huge contract and a no-trade clause
who is breaking down
who has yet to prove he can play in the system the president and coach want to install

never mind about the triangle being for so-called "lesser" players. the triangle relies on all the players, and is for all players.

the plan is clearly half-baked. he claimed he had a playoff team on his hands. he himself admitted the season was "a project gone awry" and that his "experiment has fallen flat on its face."

these are the reasons there's so much argument about which player to draft, should the knicks be so lucky as to have dibs, and which free agents to bring in, should there be any genuine interest among them to come into an extremely sketchy situation.

it's because the design or plan for the future contains a high probability of remaining untenable due to the alleged plan being both inchoate and chaotic, with no clear and strong leadership in place.

You forgot the attention whore, bitch type, playoff-useless rebounding.

Subtitles: I hate Melo, hence I will hate Phil.

It's both simple and clear; a plan and outlook that ignores reality, draft picks, cap space and past comparitive history. If the Knicks make the playoffs, it's fools gold jv nonsense. If the Knicks don't make the playoffs, it's vindication in the opinion that a hallmark player for the franchise is actually an untalented, greedy moron. And that any executive or coach or management type, that is on board with said player, no matter what their background may include, is suffering from alzheimers, insipient insanity, or worse.

But when you have hate, you really need not consider evidence. Other than the fact that you just know that your hate and inner shining light of BB altruism would be much better for all concerned. Because you are not arrogant about your own opinion and tremendous abilities. Despite the fact that real people are doing real NBA things and you are typing endless negative drivel on a fan board.

their record is real, the quotes are real, the contract is real. what are you babbling about this time?

Their resumes are real, their rings are real, the cap space and the draft picks are real, the playoffs were real and the NBA is a real billion dollar industry with lots and lots of real millionaire players, coaches and GM's.

And you are what, again? Oh that's right, typing about being proactively ethical and smarter than people making millions of dollars doing things you can't and don't.

Note that DK is citing the real results here. All you're doing is citing future stuff that you imagine will work well (draft picks, cap space) or past stuff before these guys were Knicks (rings).

Yeah but he is a guy that posted the Knicks weren't worth his time to watch during the 54 win season and that it was 'fools gold' and yet made a point of watching the 37 win team and aimed almost all of his criticism of that team at the foot of one player. This despite Tyson, Shump,Smith, and Felton imploding, Steve Mills taking all authority from Woodson and not making a single move to support his coach or improve his team.

you are misrepresenting my history. i watched the knicks closely during their 54-win campaign, and not so much the following season. you are conflating those two season and my watching habits to defame me.

please stop-- it's ugly behavior.

That is not how I remember it. I remember you posting that they weren't worth your time and that the team winning was 'fools gold'. I don't have the time to find it right now but are you really denying that?

i watched a majority of games that season, and yes i certainly called the team a fool's gold team during the regular season after the first 25 games, asking repeatedly during that time if anybody saw their regular-season success translating to playoff success, ie a competitive 2nd round and beyond. had kidd and sheed remained healthy i would have had a different impression.

nonetheless the responses were always the same: "a win is a win." obviously that sentiment proved vain, as it always does. they were embarrassed by the celtics after wearing black for their alleged funeral, losing home curt advantage. then they were destroyed by the pacers, as happens with woodson-coached squads.

I clearly remember you saying the Knicks should have beaten the Pacers..You gonna argue with ME about that??