Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Are we talking about the max? This would be a marginally adequate signing. C-
I'd be excited about watching Monroe but I'd rather make small additions, buy picks, and make trades with our cap space.

Monroe isnt worth his max, hell thats a primary reason why the Pistons didnt offer it to him. You have to wonder why a team wouldnt offer a solid deal to a player averaging a double double.

I agree. The only upside is if he improves a bit and the cap goes up as much as projected, then 16 mil per for him would be like 12 mil now.
I do still think there are better ways to use the money though.

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Are we talking about the max? This would be a marginally adequate signing. C-
I'd be excited about watching Monroe but I'd rather make small additions, buy picks, and make trades with our cap space.

Monroe isnt worth his max, hell thats a primary reason why the Pistons didnt offer it to him. You have to wonder why a team wouldnt offer a solid deal to a player averaging a double double.

I agree. The only upside is if he improves a bit and the cap goes up as much as projected, then 16 mil per for him would be like 12 mil now.
I do still think there are better ways to use the money though.

Defense is his issue and that rarely improves in players once coming into the league and being there for a minute. i agree there are better ways to spend the money. I'd rather not spend it on him and wait for a more complete player. But I do understand Phil cant go into next year with another losing team.

Greg Monroe isn't perfect but he's well worth the money. He's a proven low post big and there are few of them in the NBA. The Triangle works better with a low post big who can help space the floor by dragging the defense in close to the basket and having to go further in order to still help defend the perimeter. He doesn't stop us from still adding a shot blocking big and hopefully that it Towns. If not there are shot blocking C's in Free Agency as listed below.

Rk	Player	                Pos	Age	Tm	G	MP	PER	TS%	WS	WS/48 ▾
2	DeAndre Jordan	        C	26	LAC	71	2455	20.5	.641	10.6	.207
6	Marc Gasol	        C	30	MEM	70	2361	21.7	.561	9.1	.185
10	Alexis Ajinca	        C	26	NOP	56	816	20.1	.601	2.7	.162
13	Jeff Withey	        C	24	NOP	35	248	18.1	.570	0.8	.157
14	Bismack Biyombo	        C	22	CHO	51	887	15.0	.578	2.9	.154
15	Jerome Jordan	        C	28	BRK	41	366	16.8	.609	1.2	.151
18	Robin Lopez	        C	26	POR	46	1302	16.1	.564	4.0	.148
30	Enes Kanter	        C	22	TOT	64	1780	19.5	.555	4.8	.130
31	Omer Asik	        C	28	NOP	64	1666	16.0	.554	4.4	.126
37	Kosta Koufos	        C	25	MEM	70	1162	13.6	.525	2.7	.111
40	Joel Freeland	        C	27	POR	37	476	11.0	.495	1.0	.105
1	Brandan Wright	        PF	27	TOT	66	1214	21.6	.681	5.7	.227
7	LaMarcus Aldridge	PF	29	POR	61	2180	22.8	.528	7.6	.168
9	Kevin Love	        PF	26	CLE	67	2296	18.9	.556	8.0	.167
11	Paul Millsap	        PF	29	ATL	67	2218	19.9	.568	7.5	.162
20	Greg Monroe	        PF	24	DET	64	1991	21.0	.548	6.1	.148
21	Tristan Thompson	PF	23	CLE	72	1970	15.6	.577	6.0	.147
23	Lavoy Allen	        PF	25	IND	51	945	16.0	.513	2.8	.144
24	Jeff Ayres	        PF	27	SAS	41	316	13.7	.616	0.9	.144
26	Khris Middleton	        PF	23	MIL	68	2024	15.8	.566	5.8	.139
28	Jonas Jerebko	        PF	27	TOT	63	1016	14.5	.559	2.8	.132
32	Brandon Bass	        PF	29	BOS	70	1633	16.4	.549	4.3	.126
33	Amir Johnson	        PF	27	TOR	68	1810	15.2	.604	4.6	.121
34      Luis Scola	        PF	34	IND	69	1420	16.7	.513	3.6	.121
35	Greg Smith	        PF	24	DAL	40	355	10.6	.614	0.9	.117
3	Jimmy Butler	        SG	25	CHI	56	2180	21.0	.577	9.3	.204
12	Danny Green	        SG	27	SAS	69	2036	16.7	.588	6.7	.157
16	John Jenkins	        SG	23	ATL	18	190	15.9	.689	0.6	.150
19	Wesley Matthews	        SG	28	POR	60	2024	16.1	.585	6.2	.148
22	Anthony Morrow	        SG	29	OKC	63	1504	14.2	.594	4.5	.145
27	Alexey Shved	        SG	26	TOT	42	767	19.5	.541	2.2	.135
29	Goran Dragic	        SG-PG	28	TOT	67	2254	17.7	.580	6.2	.131
41	Marco Belinelli	        SG	28	SAS	51	1165	12.8	.557	2.5	.102
25	Cory Joseph	        PG	23	SAS	67	1273	15.3	.565	3.7	.141
36	Brandon Knight	        PG-SG	23	TOT	62	2013	17.5	.547	4.7	.112
38	John Lucas	        PG	32	DET	12	140	14.9	.472	0.3	.110
4	Jeremy Evans	        SF	27	UTA	28	144	18.1	.586	0.6	.190
5	Kawhi Leonard	        SF	23	SAS	52	1669	21.1	.551	6.5	.186
8	Draymond Green	        SF	24	GSW	71	2258	16.5	.543	7.9	.168
17	DeMarre Carroll	        SF	28	ATL	60	1887	15.1	.594	5.8	.148
39	Jae Crowder	        SF	24	TOT	71	1374	13.9	.513	3.1	.109

StarksEwing1 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:This reminds me of stealing H20 from Detroit in 96.

Give me a Towns/Monroe/Melo frontline and the rest is icing

hate to say this guns but any chance of getting towns was taken away tonight

What a ridiculous thing to say. Based on what? 1 win? Mind explaining your logic? It may reduce our overall percentage chance to get the number 1 pick, but eliminate? Get a grip mofo.

Milsap?
West?
Kanter?

Monroe is our best option. Kanter doesn't defend at all and is a black hole like Amare. Like a if said if you don't get Towns you can always find a rim protector for cheap. Biyombo, sanders, stein etc

holfresh wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

holfresh wrote:He is a zero impact player..Why would anyone max out a guy who has no impact on wins?

James Dolan has been torn apart by fans and the sports media for years. By hiring Phil Jackson for big bucks and resigning Melo for big bucks and taking a "step back" he can say he did everything he could to try to win. He can try to pass the buck on blame.

Melo has been torn apart by the fans and sports media for years as a guy who just can't get over the hump and the kind of player that you just can't build around and build a true winner/contender. He can say he tried and try to say he wanted to be loyal to the Knicks or whatever other force fed thing Leon Rose of CAA will tell him to say but will still find a way to say the wrong thing at the wrong time.

Phil Jackson has recently been torn apart by the media and fans and honestly his legacy of 'rings' isn't going to hold much water much longer after a season like this. He can say he tried to win, but silently pass the blame to his 'franchise player' and the condition of the team he inherited from the "worst owner in sports"

You've got three big impact guys in the franchise who have more at stake with their personal legacy/public perception than they do about winning and the best future for the Knicks as a franchise.

If Monroe gets the max, this is a bona fide treadmill team. This will be a no defense team that will float in that 7th to 9th in the East limbo for the next four years. When Jackson and Melo are gone, the team will have to start over and reboot from scratch, which they should have started doing last year.

Monroe is a face saving narrative for three power players who don't actually seem to really care about the Knicks as a team. To me, it's not about wins anymore, it's about how they are going to carve up the blame in the future.

I keep saying it since this offseason, but really how hard is it to screw up a NBA franchise rebuild?

Hire a young up and coming GM prospect. Trade any veteran players with trade value ( Melo) that won't fit into a rebuild timeline with their contract. Don't go after the same kind of players in the past, that kill cap flexibility, that have brought the team into the current hell in the first place. Take a solid and steady long term approach to a rebuild, much like most of the current contenders had to do.

I mean how do you get a rebuild like this wrong? I mean there are some ballboys in the league who can figure out what the Knicks really need to do structurally to build for their future. It's actually pathetic that the Knicks brain trust is directly moving towards a treadmill team and only delaying the inevitable full on rebuild needed for this team. Again, it's like a person who tries to avoid the dentist when the drilling is going to happen anyway. All you are doing is letting the rotten tooth fester and then suffering in pain for nothing.

I could care less about the big grand conspiracy...I'm a simple guy..Melo's teams have won 50 games or more for 7 consecutive years in Denver...When he had another guy next to him that can play, he got to the WCF...I have witnessed him lead a team to a 54 win season with an over the hill rag tag patch of players...He has carried the lowly Knicks months at a time...I'm not too worried about what fans and media types have to say, I'm talking about what I have seem...

All I want from Phil is to add another piece that can take the pressure off Melo on a nightly basis...I want to see him get the support that LeBron, KD, Wade, Duncan, Kobe, Paul Pierce, and Shaq have gotten over the years...Just another guy to trust and take over when his game is not on...He doesn't have to force shots with 5 sec on the clock...He doesn't have to feel it's all on him or bust...That all I want from Phil...Monroe isn't that guy..Real simple...

I agree Monroe isnt that guy, actually surprised folks are interested on here. but that guy really isnt available, neither in free agency or the draft. All those guys you mentioned have guys who can drop 20-25 or better on any given night. Who is available for that?

Give me Monroe and give me Butler or Lance Stephenson at the 2 or someone similar.

You need a balance of scoring and defense. Rim protection, perimeter defense, rebounding, scoring & ball and player movement...

Towns
Monroe
Melo
Butler of Stephenson
Svhed
--------
Galloway

Then you fill out the roster with role players. Maybe a young shot blocking project. Maybe keep Cole, Smith, Lance or Amundson etc. You need pros at the end of the bench. Guys who rarely play but when called upon know the system and are capable of having big games. Guys who push their teammates and make practice competitive. Leadership.

Monroe is not nearly as bad defensively as you guys are making him out to be. He is not Kanter bad.

Basketball is a team game. It requires synergy not allstars at every position. Every player picks up he slack and do whatever it takes to win. Put those pieces in place and Fisher will look a lot smarter.

Knicks being interested in Monroe is a lot more exciting than starting Lou Amundson at PF neXt year. That's something Layden would do.

knickscity wrote:Rather have Lou at min, than Monroe anywhere near max....thats what Isiah and Walsh would do, overpay since they were afraid to strike out.

Disagree. Those guys never added a 25yr old extremely durable 16&10 and improving big. They added Eddy Curry on potential and broken down Amare @ $100mil uninsured.

On the contrary this signing Monroe would be one of the best most thoughtout signings in franchise history. You need players that fit the puzzle. No more throwing potential against the wall and hoping it all comes together. No more miscalculations like This guy could be a monster, This guy is a year removed from major surgery we think he's got another 5yrs left minimum etc. That's fools gold

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Are we talking about the max? This would be a marginally adequate signing. C-
I'd be excited about watching Monroe but I'd rather make small additions, buy picks, and make trades with our cap space.

Monroe isnt worth his max, hell thats a primary reason why the Pistons didnt offer it to him. You have to wonder why a team wouldnt offer a solid deal to a player averaging a double double.

I agree. The only upside is if he improves a bit and the cap goes up as much as projected, then 16 mil per for him would be like 12 mil now.
I do still think there are better ways to use the money though.

Defense is his issue and that rarely improves in players once coming into the league and being there for a minute. i agree there are better ways to spend the money. I'd rather not spend it on him and wait for a more complete player. But I do understand Phil cant go into next year with another losing team.

Greg Monroe isn't perfect but he's well worth the money. He's a proven low post big and there are few of them in the NBA. The Triangle works better with a low post big who can help space the floor by dragging the defense in close to the basket and having to go further in order to still help defend the perimeter. He doesn't stop us from still adding a shot blocking big and hopefully that it Towns. If not there are shot blocking C's in Free Agency as listed below.

So...why isnt Detroit keeping him?

                                                                                                        FT      TO      SF      And 1   Score
Player	                Team	GP	Poss	Freq	PPP	PTS	FGM	FGA	FG%	eFG%	Freq    Freq    Freq    Freq    Freq    Percentile
Al Jefferson	        CHA	65	659	57.1%	0.93	611	270	576	46.9	46.9	8.2%	6.1%	7.4%	1.7%	46.9%	73.9
LaMarcus Aldridge	POR	70	605	36.3%	0.98	592	225	488	46.1	46.1	15.0%	7.4%	13.2%	3.1%	49.1%	83.9
Marc Gasol	        MEM	79	520	36.9%	0.94	490	180	377	47.7	47.7	18.3%	12.7%	15.6%	3.7%	47.9%	79.1
Zach Randolph	        MEM	69	499	41.8%	0.91	455	183	398	46.0	46.0	13.4%	9.8%	11.2%	3.0%	45.9%	70.0
DeMarcus Cousins	SAC	59	468	30.0%	0.87	405	139	322	43.2	43.2	20.3%	15.4%	16.5%	4.7%	44.4%	58.7
Greg Monroe	        DET	66	462	41.3%	0.85	393	146	338	43.2	43.2	15.6%	14.1%	13.6%	2.8%	43.7%	54.3
Nikola Vucevic	        ORL	72	422	29.9%	0.86	364	161	352	45.7	45.7	6.9%	10.7%	5.7%	0.9%	43.8%	58.3
Pau Gasol	        CHI	76	413	28.8%	0.89	368	144	324	44.4	44.4	13.3%	11.1%	9.4%	2.9%	45.0%	64.3
Roy Hibbert	        IND	73	402	45.5%	0.87	348	140	325	43.1	43.1	10.7%	9.5%	8.2%	1.0%	44.3%	59.1
Blake Griffin	        LAC	65	384	26.6%	0.93	356	137	300	45.7	45.7	16.1%	9.4%	13.3%	3.6%	47.7%	73.5
Markieff Morris	        PHX	80	357	26.6%	0.89	318	137	283	48.4	48.4	9.0%	12.6%	7.6%	1.1%	45.9%	63.9
Andre Drummond	        DET	79	334	27.7%	0.68	228	102	270	37.8	37.8	11.4%	10.8%	9.9%	2.7%	35.0%	21.3
Dwight Howard	        HOU	39	313	49.4%	0.73	229	85	200	42.5	42.5	20.8%	17.9%	17.3%	2.6%	39.9%	30.4
Dirk Nowitzki	        DAL	75	306	24.7%	0.95	291	112	247	45.3	45.3	13.4%	7.5%	7.8%	1.6%	48.4%	80.0

knickscity wrote:

holfresh wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

holfresh wrote:He is a zero impact player..Why would anyone max out a guy who has no impact on wins?

James Dolan has been torn apart by fans and the sports media for years. By hiring Phil Jackson for big bucks and resigning Melo for big bucks and taking a "step back" he can say he did everything he could to try to win. He can try to pass the buck on blame.

Melo has been torn apart by the fans and sports media for years as a guy who just can't get over the hump and the kind of player that you just can't build around and build a true winner/contender. He can say he tried and try to say he wanted to be loyal to the Knicks or whatever other force fed thing Leon Rose of CAA will tell him to say but will still find a way to say the wrong thing at the wrong time.

Phil Jackson has recently been torn apart by the media and fans and honestly his legacy of 'rings' isn't going to hold much water much longer after a season like this. He can say he tried to win, but silently pass the blame to his 'franchise player' and the condition of the team he inherited from the "worst owner in sports"

You've got three big impact guys in the franchise who have more at stake with their personal legacy/public perception than they do about winning and the best future for the Knicks as a franchise.

If Monroe gets the max, this is a bona fide treadmill team. This will be a no defense team that will float in that 7th to 9th in the East limbo for the next four years. When Jackson and Melo are gone, the team will have to start over and reboot from scratch, which they should have started doing last year.

Monroe is a face saving narrative for three power players who don't actually seem to really care about the Knicks as a team. To me, it's not about wins anymore, it's about how they are going to carve up the blame in the future.

I keep saying it since this offseason, but really how hard is it to screw up a NBA franchise rebuild?

Hire a young up and coming GM prospect. Trade any veteran players with trade value ( Melo) that won't fit into a rebuild timeline with their contract. Don't go after the same kind of players in the past, that kill cap flexibility, that have brought the team into the current hell in the first place. Take a solid and steady long term approach to a rebuild, much like most of the current contenders had to do.

I mean how do you get a rebuild like this wrong? I mean there are some ballboys in the league who can figure out what the Knicks really need to do structurally to build for their future. It's actually pathetic that the Knicks brain trust is directly moving towards a treadmill team and only delaying the inevitable full on rebuild needed for this team. Again, it's like a person who tries to avoid the dentist when the drilling is going to happen anyway. All you are doing is letting the rotten tooth fester and then suffering in pain for nothing.

I could care less about the big grand conspiracy...I'm a simple guy..Melo's teams have won 50 games or more for 7 consecutive years in Denver...When he had another guy next to him that can play, he got to the WCF...I have witnessed him lead a team to a 54 win season with an over the hill rag tag patch of players...He has carried the lowly Knicks months at a time...I'm not too worried about what fans and media types have to say, I'm talking about what I have seem...

All I want from Phil is to add another piece that can take the pressure off Melo on a nightly basis...I want to see him get the support that LeBron, KD, Wade, Duncan, Kobe, Paul Pierce, and Shaq have gotten over the years...Just another guy to trust and take over when his game is not on...He doesn't have to force shots with 5 sec on the clock...He doesn't have to feel it's all on him or bust...That all I want from Phil...Monroe isn't that guy..Real simple...

I agree Monroe isnt that guy, actually surprised folks are interested on here. but that guy really isnt available, neither in free agency or the draft. All those guys you mentioned have guys who can drop 20-25 or better on any given night. Who is available for that?

It all doesn't have to get done this off season...That's what happened with Amare...Tying up cap space with bodies isn't the answer...

gunsnewing wrote:We are not trading any draft picks for Monroe. The downside is a lot less in this case. It's kinda like who would you prefer 5yrs of David Lee putting up 18&10 or 5yrs of Amare or Eddy curry injured in an expensive suit on the end of the bench?

I wouldnt want neither, thats the point.