nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

FireWoodson wrote:I Am Sick Of Optimistic Knick Fans!

Who are we kidding here? Your frustration is directed at nixluva. Who I can see would grind a lot of peoples hides with his basic condescension and passive aggressive behavior, then trying to retreat back into claiming it's all optimism and anyone who disagrees with him is a hater.

I used to work with a guy who has a chronically bad back. He said in the morning and when it was cold in the winter, it was the worst because his back would stiffen up and he couldn't move very well. He said during the mornings, when he would go take a dump, that it would be so cold and his back was so out of whack that he couldn't turn enough and reach around an wipe after a dump.

That feeling right there, cold, tired, your ass full of ****, and realizing with your pants around your ankles that you can't wrench yourself enough to even wipe yourself like you were 2 year old again, I imagine that is what it's like to see a nixluva typical post over and over again.

Best answer? You can't reason with a terrorist or someone with a terrorist mentality. And that's what nixluva is, a smiling terrorist. Immune to reason. Just there to be subversive under the guise of some other agenda. Splat was wrong about the agenda, but not wrong about the methodology.

If you want reason for hope, then I say don't rest it on Melo or Phil Jackson or some lottery pick.

Have "hope" for Adam Silver. Silver has improved officiating by leaps and bounds the past year. He's pushed for lottery reform. He's discussed sweeping logical changes to make the game more competitive. During the impending lockout, it appears he sees the interest by fans and profitability to modeling the league after the NFL and, to some degree, the MLB model. More player movement, fast rebuilds, more mechanisms to improve, more built in market inefficiencies to exploit.

I don't have faith in Dolan, nor Melo nor Zen Master. But I have faith in Silver. More mechanisms for future change would allow the Knicks to a chance to avoid the treadmill pitfall they are currently headed in now.

The KC Royals in the past World Series was good for KC, it was good for baseball in general, and it was good for profitability and fan interest. MLB sees this, I believe Adam Silver sees this too. Changes are coming from a league perspective and if the Knicks can be smart and take advantage of these changes, I think there is reason for more hope than the traditional "tank and rebuild" model that's killing the current league.

Your posts are disgusting- does anyone actually enjoy reading them? What is your purpose when you post your race rants and blow job and toilet metaphors?

"Terrorist" is over the top but, yes, I enjoy the immense, careful thought that TT puts into his basketball analysis.

Hmm, you must have missed those rants from last week

Maybe I did but I would judge anyone from only one or a few posts anyway. I can see right in this thread that TT is adding a lot of intelligent analysis.

I guess I missed the analysis. I did see some negative Phil/Melo stuff around the fourth or fifth paragraph but that is present in all of his posts.

Personally I love the blatant personal attacks on me that fill TT's post. I'm a terrorist now. Then we have the vulgar reference to excrement. This is what passes for insightful and reasoned posting? Has anything i've posted reached those level of disrespect or nastiness? Sure i've said some salty things but nothing that would approach this level. At least most of my posts are full of Basketball information and real quotes from Phil as opposed to conspiracy theories and hate for Phil, Melo and Fish. All i've been doing is presenting a case for optimism based on the very real options we have this summer. We can debate those options which are real and not imagined and actually have to do with Basketball.

StarksEwing1 wrote: i like optimism but i think sometimes you are too optimistic that you lose touch with reality a bit. I think we will be better next year based on the fact that we have a lottery pick and cap space. However im careful not to get ahead of myself because its possible we lose out on the big free agents and our draft pick might struggle at first you never know

See that's the thing, I'm not making the argument that our draft pick has to be great from day one. It's more important that in the long run he turns into a core part of the team we can rely on. Hopefully if we're lucky we can end up with a franchise player, but as i've said repeatedly there are no guarantees in the draft. So i'm not getting ahead of myself. All i'm doing is stating the fact that we have a chance to add a good player in the draft. 1st we have to see what spot we get in the lottery.

As for free agents i'm also not saying we have to end up with big names. This is why I kept bringing up the Hawks who didn't add any unattainable players. Korver, Millsap, Carroll and Schroder aren't the level of players we can't get in NY. There will be a lot of 2nd tier guys we have a shot at getting. So IMO it's not going out on a limb to be optimistic. We have our pick and cap space to go after the players we want and need. How that all works out is up in the air but we have a good shot to improve the team.

TripleThreat wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:I would look at giving a GM more power to amnesty a contract for a player he did not sign or trade for. I don't feel as bad for any team that signs a player to a ridiculous contract and then realizes the next year that they made a huge mistake.

I appreciate that a revolving amnesty provision is an out of the box type thinking scenario. I mean I'm always glad when others are also looking for solutions to the albatross/millstone around the neck NBA contract problem.

One of the complications I can see working itself up though is any amnesty release comes with an implied cash hit. Some teams are better suited and placed to take that hit than others. The Lakers and Knicks simply have bigger warchests than other teams in the league. I think a danger would be a smaller market team sending a young talent plus an albatross contract to a Lakers then having the Lakers amnesty the albatross player and keep the younger talented payer as the "price" for moving that money off the books. In that way, the wealthier teams will still have an advantage. Not that you can completely curb stomp the financial power of wealthier teams ( look at the Yankees, Dodgers and Red Sox in baseball, it's not like they still don't have some big money advantages in place) But I think the NFL model still offers the implied competitive advantage as well.

In the NBA, if you create a structure where a guy can loaf and still get paid everything in that contract, I think you take away the NFL incentive of "I must keep my job, I must be my best, I must push 150 percent all the time, or I might lose my job and get cut and get nothing" I also think a risk of an instant cut situation would create better player movement. If the Knicks could have cut STAT three years ago, he'd have to go back and face market conditions. Where he could help maybe a contender for much less. It's not just the Knicks benefiting from dumping STAT, but the market correction on his value can help his incoming team as well, get a veteran player who can help for a playoff deep push.

I really think it would also bring back some fans too. I think there is something patently wrong with Gilbert Arenas gambling and then bringing a giant collection of guns into his locker room and still get every last penny of his contract. Not just any contract but one of those crippling franchise killing contracts. I mean even if you could amnesty Arenas, how much of a bad taste do you leave in the mouth of your local fanbase?

IMHO, the NFL model is brutal, but it works, it simply works. The best players get paid the best. When they stop being the best, they stop getting paid like that and face a market correction. Teams still have to pay a "tax" on bad moves like signing bonuses spread out against a cap or the risk of the rare holdout player, but it's not a franchise crippling 4-5 tax on the entire team.

Would any of you want to see an aging overpaid KeyShawn Johnson on the Jets, whining and complaining and scoring like 1 touchdown a year and trying to stab Wayne Chrebet after each game and then see him be stuck on that Jets roster if the NFL had the NBA model of business? Just stuck with a worthless mother ****er who doesn't even want to be there, asking the fan base to wait for his contract to expire?

Put it this way, if Amare Stoudamire could have gotten cut the last three years without any chance to get the rest of his salary, what are the odds you'd see him set a vicious pick? Dive for a loose ball? Give some effort on defense? Pass the ball or try to without dribbling off his feet? Keep his mouth shut about his wine baths and renaissance man happy horse ****?

I appreciate the amnesty suggestion though, I just don't know how it can offer as much upside as the NFL model in place IMHO.

And lets face it, when all is said and done, the owners and GMs who get burned by certain players not living up to a contract are also part of the problem, because they participate in giving outlandish money to guys who simply don't deserve it… never learning lessons from the past.

Players won't give back the contractual power they've gained over the years, especially since teams are doing well financially and are about to get even more money from TV.

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote: i like optimism but i think sometimes you are too optimistic that you lose touch with reality a bit. I think we will be better next year based on the fact that we have a lottery pick and cap space. However im careful not to get ahead of myself because its possible we lose out on the big free agents and our draft pick might struggle at first you never know

See that's the thing, I'm not making the argument that our draft pick has to be great from day one. It's more important that in the long run he turns into a core part of the team we can rely on. Hopefully if we're lucky we can end up with a franchise player, but as i've said repeatedly there are no guarantees in the draft. So i'm not getting ahead of myself. All i'm doing is stating the fact that we have a chance to add a good player in the draft. 1st we have to see what spot we get in the lottery.

As for free agents i'm also not saying we have to end up with big names. This is why I kept bringing up the Hawks who didn't add any unattainable players. Korver, Millsap, Carroll and Schroder aren't the level of players we can't get in NY. There will be a lot of 2nd tier guys we have a shot at getting. So IMO it's not going out on a limb to be optimistic. We have our pick and cap space to go after the players we want and need. How that all works out is up in the air but we have a good shot to improve the team.

Dude base on your post, if I didn't know better i would think you were related to phil and fisher. You have yet to hold them responsible for anything negative. They have screwed up the franchise pretty badly, and your optimism consist of words like "if were lucky" "hopefully" "5 years from now"

If phil says something and contradicts himself, you have a full excuse waiting, you bitched like crazy about woodsons rotation, yet fisher plays 15 guys in 10 minutes and your happy and all on board.

If fisher and phil raped JILL MARTIN, you would blame her for teasing them and where skimpy clothing. I mean it's gotten that bad with you, and we have been posting together for over 10 yrs, but lately you have been phil and fishers biggest supporter,probably bigger then dolan himself, and i just dont get it.

That's his style. It long predated Phil and Fisher arriving. If anything, he'd be related to Dolan!

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote: i like optimism but i think sometimes you are too optimistic that you lose touch with reality a bit. I think we will be better next year based on the fact that we have a lottery pick and cap space. However im careful not to get ahead of myself because its possible we lose out on the big free agents and our draft pick might struggle at first you never know

See that's the thing, I'm not making the argument that our draft pick has to be great from day one. It's more important that in the long run he turns into a core part of the team we can rely on. Hopefully if we're lucky we can end up with a franchise player, but as i've said repeatedly there are no guarantees in the draft. So i'm not getting ahead of myself. All i'm doing is stating the fact that we have a chance to add a good player in the draft. 1st we have to see what spot we get in the lottery.

As for free agents i'm also not saying we have to end up with big names. This is why I kept bringing up the Hawks who didn't add any unattainable players. Korver, Millsap, Carroll and Schroder aren't the level of players we can't get in NY. There will be a lot of 2nd tier guys we have a shot at getting. So IMO it's not going out on a limb to be optimistic. We have our pick and cap space to go after the players we want and need. How that all works out is up in the air but we have a good shot to improve the team.

Dude base on your post, if I didn't know better i would think you were related to phil and fisher. You have yet to hold them responsible for anything negative. They have screwed up the franchise pretty badly, and your optimism consist of words like "if were lucky" "hopefully" "5 years from now"

If phil says something and contradicts himself, you have a full excuse waiting, you bitched like crazy about woodsons rotation, yet fisher plays 15 guys in 10 minutes and your happy and all on board.

If fisher and phil raped JILL MARTIN, you would blame her for teasing them and where skimpy clothing. I mean it's gotten that bad with you, and we have been posting together for over 10 yrs, but lately you have been phil and fishers biggest supporter,probably bigger then dolan himself, and i just dont get it.

Do you posters who go into a tantrum when you read optimistic posts, have no internal filter? Do you ever sit back and read what you've just written and think "Maybe I'm over reacting a little"? Or do you just type a load of crap in a fury and instantly hit the post button? We've gone from comparing people who are optimistic to ****, terrorists and now rape. Go get some perspective, it's just fricking basketball.

smackeddog wrote:Ooh! Someone's optimistic about their basketball team on a fan site! I can't handle it!!!

nixluva wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote: i like optimism but i think sometimes you are too optimistic that you lose touch with reality a bit. I think we will be better next year based on the fact that we have a lottery pick and cap space. However im careful not to get ahead of myself because its possible we lose out on the big free agents and our draft pick might struggle at first you never know

See that's the thing, I'm not making the argument that our draft pick has to be great from day one. It's more important that in the long run he turns into a core part of the team we can rely on. Hopefully if we're lucky we can end up with a franchise player, but as i've said repeatedly there are no guarantees in the draft. So i'm not getting ahead of myself. All i'm doing is stating the fact that we have a chance to add a good player in the draft. 1st we have to see what spot we get in the lottery.

As for free agents i'm also not saying we have to end up with big names. This is why I kept bringing up the Hawks who didn't add any unattainable players. Korver, Millsap, Carroll and Schroder aren't the level of players we can't get in NY. There will be a lot of 2nd tier guys we have a shot at getting. So IMO it's not going out on a limb to be optimistic. We have our pick and cap space to go after the players we want and need. How that all works out is up in the air but we have a good shot to improve the team.

Dude base on your post, if I didn't know better i would think you were related to phil and fisher. You have yet to hold them responsible for anything negative. They have screwed up the franchise pretty badly, and your optimism consist of words like "if were lucky" "hopefully" "5 years from now"

If phil says something and contradicts himself, you have a full excuse waiting, you bitched like crazy about woodsons rotation, yet fisher plays 15 guys in 10 minutes and your happy and all on board.

If fisher and phil raped JILL MARTIN, you would blame her for teasing them and where skimpy clothing. I mean it's gotten that bad with you, and we have been posting together for over 10 yrs, but lately you have been phil and fishers biggest supporter,probably bigger then dolan himself, and i just dont get it.

Do you posters who go into a tantrum when you read optimistic posts, have no internal filter? Do you ever sit back and read what you've just written and think "Maybe I'm over reacting a little"? Or do you just type a load of crap in a fury and instantly hit the post button? We've gone from comparing people who are optimistic to ****, terrorists and now rape. Go get some perspective, it's just fricking basketball.

I actually don't know why it's gotten this bad. Most of what i'm saying is rather bland and not very controversial. We have a chance at a top pick and we have cap space to revamp the top of the rotation with better players. What is so outlandish about saying that? If anyone looks at my statements above what is overly rah rah about them?

Suggesting we could do something similar to what the Hawks did, when they clearly didn't add any big time players in order to form a winning team. That's about as realistic as we can get in terms of trying to revamp the roster this summer. Basically 2nd tier Free Agents are all the Hawks added, so why can't the Knicks do that? It's not that out of the realm of possibility. I'd say it's fairly doable.

Yeah, I don't get it either. I can be quite cynical in life, but I don't lose the plot when I hear someone feeling more upbeat about the future.

FireWoodson wrote:

Everything this season turned out exactly the way it should've....

You people at this site seem to all have this outlook. Well, let me help you out with something --- you are all f...ing ridiculous! An entire season of Knick basketball is completely lost and you happily look to next season.

Don't you look forward to b-ball season? Well, are you happy that this entire season was turned into the worst season of b-ball Knick fans have ever witnessed? Oh, but things turned out exactly the way they should. Under cap, top pick. You people throw out an entire year of your team and live on stupid hope and illusion that in five years we will be winning a Championship.

An entire season wasted! I wanted Shump and JR for this season. And Tyson and Amare. We lose with them, hell, at least we fielded something that was an NBA team. I went to Westchester to watch the D-League team. I could have saved money on gas and just went to the Garden. We were given sh!t this year and some of you just ate it up and thanked Phil for serving it to you. Boy, you are so easy to please.

"Hey, folks, I'll give you a 14 win season, I'll give you D-league and ten day guys who no one knows, I'll give you a coach who never coached a game in his life, I'll trade award winning players and bring in Stymie, Thor, and the most unknown and worst player Duke ever had, and to top it all off I'll tell you this is the plan, it's all working out."

Yup, Phil served you dog sh!t and you smiled and ask for seconds. At least I spit my serving out. Fuck this season and f..k next season. We will be worse!

Although this season is worst Knick season ever, I think next season will tell us all that we need to know about Phil's ability to build a team. He has tons of Champions with some of the greatest players he didn't draft. If next season is a bust, I don't believe he will never get a second chance run another team. If he does, it will be by bottom of the barrel team that have no moves planed and looking for quick buzz.

blkexec wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

nixluva wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote: i like optimism but i think sometimes you are too optimistic that you lose touch with reality a bit. I think we will be better next year based on the fact that we have a lottery pick and cap space. However im careful not to get ahead of myself because its possible we lose out on the big free agents and our draft pick might struggle at first you never know

See that's the thing, I'm not making the argument that our draft pick has to be great from day one. It's more important that in the long run he turns into a core part of the team we can rely on. Hopefully if we're lucky we can end up with a franchise player, but as i've said repeatedly there are no guarantees in the draft. So i'm not getting ahead of myself. All i'm doing is stating the fact that we have a chance to add a good player in the draft. 1st we have to see what spot we get in the lottery.

As for free agents i'm also not saying we have to end up with big names. This is why I kept bringing up the Hawks who didn't add any unattainable players. Korver, Millsap, Carroll and Schroder aren't the level of players we can't get in NY. There will be a lot of 2nd tier guys we have a shot at getting. So IMO it's not going out on a limb to be optimistic. We have our pick and cap space to go after the players we want and need. How that all works out is up in the air but we have a good shot to improve the team.

Dude base on your post, if I didn't know better i would think you were related to phil and fisher. You have yet to hold them responsible for anything negative. They have screwed up the franchise pretty badly, and your optimism consist of words like "if were lucky" "hopefully" "5 years from now"

If phil says something and contradicts himself, you have a full excuse waiting, you bitched like crazy about woodsons rotation, yet fisher plays 15 guys in 10 minutes and your happy and all on board.

If fisher and phil raped JILL MARTIN, you would blame her for teasing them and where skimpy clothing. I mean it's gotten that bad with you, and we have been posting together for over 10 yrs, but lately you have been phil and fishers biggest supporter,probably bigger then dolan himself, and i just dont get it.

Do you posters who go into a tantrum when you read optimistic posts, have no internal filter? Do you ever sit back and read what you've just written and think "Maybe I'm over reacting a little"? Or do you just type a load of crap in a fury and instantly hit the post button? We've gone from comparing people who are optimistic to ****, terrorists and now rape. Go get some perspective, it's just fricking basketball.

I actually don't know why it's gotten this bad. Most of what i'm saying is rather bland and not very controversial. We have a chance at a top pick and we have cap space to revamp the top of the rotation with better players. What is so outlandish about saying that? If anyone looks at my statements above what is overly rah rah about them?

Suggesting we could do something similar to what the Hawks did, when they clearly didn't add any big time players in order to form a winning team. That's about as realistic as we can get in terms of trying to revamp the roster this summer. Basically 2nd tier Free Agents are all the Hawks added, so why can't the Knicks do that? It's not that out of the realm of possibility. I'd say it's fairly doable.

Yeah, I don't get it either. I can be quite cynical in life, but I don't lose the plot when I hear someone feeling more upbeat about the future.

Don't let fans from other teams come onto a knick site to stop your happiness. If you want to be optimistic about the knicks on a knicks site designed for optimistic knick fans, have at it. The fact that this is even a discussion and / or a thread that hasn't been deleted is a problem within itself.

Maybe because I live outside of NY and I see all the hate from just being a knick fan. It's like other teams can't believe the knicks still have fans. And just wearing the colors orange and blue gets people upset. But I expect that from non knick fans. It's part of being a knick fan. But this knicks and knicks crime has to stop!

blkexec wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

nixluva wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote: i like optimism but i think sometimes you are too optimistic that you lose touch with reality a bit. I think we will be better next year based on the fact that we have a lottery pick and cap space. However im careful not to get ahead of myself because its possible we lose out on the big free agents and our draft pick might struggle at first you never know

See that's the thing, I'm not making the argument that our draft pick has to be great from day one. It's more important that in the long run he turns into a core part of the team we can rely on. Hopefully if we're lucky we can end up with a franchise player, but as i've said repeatedly there are no guarantees in the draft. So i'm not getting ahead of myself. All i'm doing is stating the fact that we have a chance to add a good player in the draft. 1st we have to see what spot we get in the lottery.

As for free agents i'm also not saying we have to end up with big names. This is why I kept bringing up the Hawks who didn't add any unattainable players. Korver, Millsap, Carroll and Schroder aren't the level of players we can't get in NY. There will be a lot of 2nd tier guys we have a shot at getting. So IMO it's not going out on a limb to be optimistic. We have our pick and cap space to go after the players we want and need. How that all works out is up in the air but we have a good shot to improve the team.

Dude base on your post, if I didn't know better i would think you were related to phil and fisher. You have yet to hold them responsible for anything negative. They have screwed up the franchise pretty badly, and your optimism consist of words like "if were lucky" "hopefully" "5 years from now"

If phil says something and contradicts himself, you have a full excuse waiting, you bitched like crazy about woodsons rotation, yet fisher plays 15 guys in 10 minutes and your happy and all on board.

If fisher and phil raped JILL MARTIN, you would blame her for teasing them and where skimpy clothing. I mean it's gotten that bad with you, and we have been posting together for over 10 yrs, but lately you have been phil and fishers biggest supporter,probably bigger then dolan himself, and i just dont get it.

Do you posters who go into a tantrum when you read optimistic posts, have no internal filter? Do you ever sit back and read what you've just written and think "Maybe I'm over reacting a little"? Or do you just type a load of crap in a fury and instantly hit the post button? We've gone from comparing people who are optimistic to ****, terrorists and now rape. Go get some perspective, it's just fricking basketball.

I actually don't know why it's gotten this bad. Most of what i'm saying is rather bland and not very controversial. We have a chance at a top pick and we have cap space to revamp the top of the rotation with better players. What is so outlandish about saying that? If anyone looks at my statements above what is overly rah rah about them?

Suggesting we could do something similar to what the Hawks did, when they clearly didn't add any big time players in order to form a winning team. That's about as realistic as we can get in terms of trying to revamp the roster this summer. Basically 2nd tier Free Agents are all the Hawks added, so why can't the Knicks do that? It's not that out of the realm of possibility. I'd say it's fairly doable.

Yeah, I don't get it either. I can be quite cynical in life, but I don't lose the plot when I hear someone feeling more upbeat about the future.

Don't let fans from other teams come onto a knick site to stop your happiness. If you want to be optimistic about the knicks on a knicks site designed for optimistic knick fans, have at it. The fact that this is even a discussion and / or a thread that hasn't been deleted is a problem within itself.

Maybe because I live outside of NY and I see all the hate from just being a knick fan. It's like other teams can't believe the knicks still have fans. And just wearing the colors orange and blue gets people upset. But I expect that from non knick fans. It's part of being a knick fan. But this knicks and knicks crime has to stop!

The site is designed for Knicks love. It has nothing to do with optimism (or pessimism). If you love your C student son, you tell him not to apply to Harvard. You don't misinterpret his mediocre grades as being outstanding just because you love him.

If you've had a C student for 15 years, telling him every day that you are simply a C student and currently have no chance at being a B student due to your parents management style, is not the best way to see your child improve. Also getting angry at your childs friends or support system who believe in him, is not the best strategy for any parent.

Good Analogy!