Knixkik wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:Only thing with Rondo is his health in recent years has sucked. However if he's good with Fisher and Phil and signed here I would be estatic. He's got good value even when he's grumpy Rondo. When he's happy rondo your getting one of the best guards in the game. Defensively he's still one of the best and he's one of the best rebounding and assist guards out there.

There is a downside wit him, but the upside to me makes it a gimme.

Trading the pick for Durant... yikes. I actually think they could do better if they went down that avenue to be honest

this would officially the worst move that we can.

Rondo has been a terrible player for years. TERRIBLE

He's been hurt for the last three years, much of it has been bad luck. 3 year ago before he got hurt he was very very good... 14ppg, 11assists, 5.5boards, almost 2 steals and shooting 48% and top flight defense... I mean he was at his best. He got hurt and that was the year Knicks beat Celtic in the playoffs. The next two years he's been coming back and hasnt played well over all... your right about that.

He's been up and down in Dallas. Some great some terrible.

He has been awful for 5 years. Really awful.

He is the perfect example of the eye test fooling the crap out of people.

Saying he has been really awful is really exaggerating.

you would think so but it is not. maybe really really awful for only 3.

Oh ... and he also has been injured a lot which was probably a blessing for his teams.

While i don't disagree that his injuries and inconsistent play don't make him that attractive, i am not sure who here really wants him. You seem to be the only person here saying he passes the eye test, not sure who he is fooling. He's a big name, if that's what you mean, but not being able to stay on the floor is a problem. But regardless of all of this, he's still a pretty good player when he plays. Dallas wanted him for a reason. He is what he is at this point in his career.

Dallas going for him was the dumbest move that I have seen since some idiot team traded for Bargnani.

And no. When he actually plays, he has become one of the biggest negative sum players in the league.

Dallas was hoping that the change would rejuvenate him, I suppose.

They have a good pick&roll partner for him in Chandler, and 3 shooters for him to look for in Dirk, Parsons, and Ellis.

You don't want him in the Triangle, but I though he could be pretty good in Dallas if he bought into their system.

Yeah he's definitely not a triangle PG thats for sure. I just don't think he's as bad as some people say. But i wouldn't want to sign him for what he will demand, that's for sure.

If you are interested in his (advanced) stats then take a look.

TS = from the worst ever
WS48 .100 is average ... see where he is

He actually used to be a good defender so that helped. Thats declining too so that won't help his sorry stats.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01.html

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:Only thing with Rondo is his health in recent years has sucked. However if he's good with Fisher and Phil and signed here I would be estatic. He's got good value even when he's grumpy Rondo. When he's happy rondo your getting one of the best guards in the game. Defensively he's still one of the best and he's one of the best rebounding and assist guards out there.

There is a downside wit him, but the upside to me makes it a gimme.

Trading the pick for Durant... yikes. I actually think they could do better if they went down that avenue to be honest

this would officially the worst move that we can.

Rondo has been a terrible player for years. TERRIBLE

He's been hurt for the last three years, much of it has been bad luck. 3 year ago before he got hurt he was very very good... 14ppg, 11assists, 5.5boards, almost 2 steals and shooting 48% and top flight defense... I mean he was at his best. He got hurt and that was the year Knicks beat Celtic in the playoffs. The next two years he's been coming back and hasnt played well over all... your right about that.

He's been up and down in Dallas. Some great some terrible.

He has been awful for 5 years. Really awful.

He is the perfect example of the eye test fooling the crap out of people.

Saying he has been really awful is really exaggerating.

you would think so but it is not. maybe really really awful for only 3.

Oh ... and he also has been injured a lot which was probably a blessing for his teams.

While i don't disagree that his injuries and inconsistent play don't make him that attractive, i am not sure who here really wants him. You seem to be the only person here saying he passes the eye test, not sure who he is fooling. He's a big name, if that's what you mean, but not being able to stay on the floor is a problem. But regardless of all of this, he's still a pretty good player when he plays. Dallas wanted him for a reason. He is what he is at this point in his career.

Dallas going for him was the dumbest move that I have seen since some idiot team traded for Bargnani.

And no. When he actually plays, he has become one of the biggest negative sum players in the league.

Dallas was hoping that the change would rejuvenate him, I suppose.

They have a good pick&roll partner for him in Chandler, and 3 shooters for him to look for in Dirk, Parsons, and Ellis.

You don't want him in the Triangle, but I though he could be pretty good in Dallas if he bought into their system.

Yeah he's definitely not a triangle PG thats for sure. I just don't think he's as bad as some people say. But i wouldn't want to sign him for what he will demand, that's for sure.

If you are interested in his (advanced) stats then take a look.

TS = from the worst ever
WS48 .100 is average ... see where he is

He actually used to be a good defender so that helped. Thats declining too so that won't help his sorry stats.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01.html

As far as free agents he would be at the end of my list anyways. For what he bring to the table, might as well just develop Shved and Galloway. SG and the bigs need to be the focus.

GustavBahler wrote:If OKC were willing to trade a former MVP and multiple scoring champion, you have to wonder what they know that we don't? Sure as hell wouldn't trust the Knicks medical staff to make that determination. Westbrook might be taking it to another level but you need more than one star to win. They have plenty of bigs, they have the best PG in the game right now. As much as it would be great to have a healthy Durant playing in NY, I would be mighty suspicious if OKC was willing to trade Durant for the number one pick, if we got it.

Without question--this is a franchise that has a lot in place right now even without Durant. They have already proven they will deal stars but this is a case where we want to steer clear of. Its very much like acquiring Carmelo. If Melo anted to play here bad enough--Wilson Chandler Gallinari Mosgov and 3 number 1 picks would have stayed here and we wouldnt be in this mess. We trade away picks like a drunk downing whiskey shots. We don't even know if Melo will be healthy or can sustain health. We do not have 1 frontocurt player under contract next year we dont have a PG under contract next year--our 2nd biggest contract belongs to a player who is without a doubt done or very close to done. To take a step further the team we have now--as is--lost to Minnesota last night on the B-B while using 7 players at home. Any NBA team cant be another at home--thats proven. We had a great night SA went up +13 and stopped playing. But when we take it down to a realistic level--this is a skeleton tam with its star played coming off major league knee surgery. We have o OTHER than our high draft pick and cap space.

Knixkik wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:If OKC were willing to trade a former MVP and multiple scoring champion, you have to wonder what they don't know that we don't? Sure as hell wouldn't trust the Knicks medical staff to make that determination. Westbrook might be taking it to another level but you need more than one star to win. They have plenty of bigs, they have the best PG in the game right now. As much as it would be great to have a healthy Durant playing in NY, I would be mighty suspicious if OKC was willing to trade Durant for the number one pick, if we got it.

Agreed. Although i don't think they would look to trade him unless they know their chances of retaining him as a free agent aren't good.

True. It could also be that he will be an FA and they might lose him. Its a long way from Durant quietly staying in OKC without so much as a press conference the last time he reupped. Whatever the reason,his recent injuries have me worried, maybe OKC is worried too.

BRIGGS wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:If OKC were willing to trade a former MVP and multiple scoring champion, you have to wonder what they know that we don't? Sure as hell wouldn't trust the Knicks medical staff to make that determination. Westbrook might be taking it to another level but you need more than one star to win. They have plenty of bigs, they have the best PG in the game right now. As much as it would be great to have a healthy Durant playing in NY, I would be mighty suspicious if OKC was willing to trade Durant for the number one pick, if we got it.

Without question--this is a franchise that has a lot in place right now even without Durant. They have already proven they will deal stars but this is a case where we want to steer clear of. Its very much like acquiring Carmelo. If Melo anted to play here bad enough--Wilson Chandler Gallinari Mosgov and 3 number 1 picks would have stayed here and we wouldnt be in this mess. We trade away picks like a drunk downing whiskey shots. We don't even know if Melo will be healthy or can sustain health. We do not have 1 frontocurt player under contract next year we dont have a PG under contract next year--our 2nd biggest contract belongs to a player who is without a doubt done or very close to done. To take a step further the team we have now--as is--lost to Minnesota last night on the B-B while using 7 players at home. Any NBA team cant be another at home--thats proven. We had a great night SA went up +13 and stopped playing. But when we take it down to a realistic level--this is a skeleton tam with its star played coming off major league knee surgery. We have o OTHER than our high draft pick and cap space.

We gave up a lot to get Melo but mgmt also made some bad decisions when it came to surrounding him with talent. Like giving JR another deal, the first round pick for Bargs, bringing back Felton.

GustavBahler wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:If OKC were willing to trade a former MVP and multiple scoring champion, you have to wonder what they know that we don't? Sure as hell wouldn't trust the Knicks medical staff to make that determination. Westbrook might be taking it to another level but you need more than one star to win. They have plenty of bigs, they have the best PG in the game right now. As much as it would be great to have a healthy Durant playing in NY, I would be mighty suspicious if OKC was willing to trade Durant for the number one pick, if we got it.

Without question--this is a franchise that has a lot in place right now even without Durant. They have already proven they will deal stars but this is a case where we want to steer clear of. Its very much like acquiring Carmelo. If Melo anted to play here bad enough--Wilson Chandler Gallinari Mosgov and 3 number 1 picks would have stayed here and we wouldnt be in this mess. We trade away picks like a drunk downing whiskey shots. We don't even know if Melo will be healthy or can sustain health. We do not have 1 frontocurt player under contract next year we dont have a PG under contract next year--our 2nd biggest contract belongs to a player who is without a doubt done or very close to done. To take a step further the team we have now--as is--lost to Minnesota last night on the B-B while using 7 players at home. Any NBA team cant be another at home--thats proven. We had a great night SA went up +13 and stopped playing. But when we take it down to a realistic level--this is a skeleton tam with its star played coming off major league knee surgery. We have o OTHER than our high draft pick and cap space.

We gave up a lot to get Melo but mgmt also made some bad decisions when it came to surrounding him with talent. Like giving JR another deal, the first round pick for Bargs, bringing back Felton.

Tyson / Billups Amnesty / TD Smooth-Starter?

GustavBahler wrote:

mreinman wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:If OKC were willing to trade a former MVP and multiple scoring champion, you have to wonder what they know that we don't? Sure as hell wouldn't trust the Knicks medical staff to make that determination. Westbrook might be taking it to another level but you need more than one star to win. They have plenty of bigs, they have the best PG in the game right now. As much as it would be great to have a healthy Durant playing in NY, I would be mighty suspicious if OKC was willing to trade Durant for the number one pick, if we got it.

Without question--this is a franchise that has a lot in place right now even without Durant. They have already proven they will deal stars but this is a case where we want to steer clear of. Its very much like acquiring Carmelo. If Melo anted to play here bad enough--Wilson Chandler Gallinari Mosgov and 3 number 1 picks would have stayed here and we wouldnt be in this mess. We trade away picks like a drunk downing whiskey shots. We don't even know if Melo will be healthy or can sustain health. We do not have 1 frontocurt player under contract next year we dont have a PG under contract next year--our 2nd biggest contract belongs to a player who is without a doubt done or very close to done. To take a step further the team we have now--as is--lost to Minnesota last night on the B-B while using 7 players at home. Any NBA team cant be another at home--thats proven. We had a great night SA went up +13 and stopped playing. But when we take it down to a realistic level--this is a skeleton tam with its star played coming off major league knee surgery. We have o OTHER than our high draft pick and cap space.

We gave up a lot to get Melo but mgmt also made some bad decisions when it came to surrounding him with talent. Like giving JR another deal, the first round pick for Bargs, bringing back Felton.

Tyson / Billups Amnesty / TD Smooth-Starter?

I don't believe there was much of a market for Tyson after the last couple of seasons, but yeah the Billups amnesty hurt us as well.

I was talking about signing tyson back then.

BRIGGS wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:If OKC were willing to trade a former MVP and multiple scoring champion, you have to wonder what they know that we don't? Sure as hell wouldn't trust the Knicks medical staff to make that determination. Westbrook might be taking it to another level but you need more than one star to win. They have plenty of bigs, they have the best PG in the game right now. As much as it would be great to have a healthy Durant playing in NY, I would be mighty suspicious if OKC was willing to trade Durant for the number one pick, if we got it.

Without question--this is a franchise that has a lot in place right now even without Durant. They have already proven they will deal stars but this is a case where we want to steer clear of. Its very much like acquiring Carmelo. If Melo anted to play here bad enough--Wilson Chandler Gallinari Mosgov and 3 number 1 picks would have stayed here and we wouldnt be in this mess. We trade away picks like a drunk downing whiskey shots. We don't even know if Melo will be healthy or can sustain health. We do not have 1 frontocurt player under contract next year we dont have a PG under contract next year--our 2nd biggest contract belongs to a player who is without a doubt done or very close to done. To take a step further the team we have now--as is--lost to Minnesota last night on the B-B while using 7 players at home. Any NBA team cant be another at home--thats proven. We had a great night SA went up +13 and stopped playing. But when we take it down to a realistic level--this is a skeleton tam with its star played coming off major league knee surgery. We have o OTHER than our high draft pick and cap space.

We gave up a lot to get Melo but mgmt also made some bad decisions when it came to surrounding him with talent. Like giving JR another deal, the first round pick for Bargs, bringing back Felton.

There is only 1 way to build a basketball team. You have to separate free agency from the drafting process. ONLY in special circumstance would you change that. Look at the last 15 years of the draft ONLY 1 trade of a top 4 pick out of 60 taken--of which 67% were either franchise players or all stars. That means you have a 2/3 chance that the player you take will be a franchise player or all star and they are salary restricted.

Briggs, where are you getting those draft percentages from?

mreinman wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:If OKC were willing to trade a former MVP and multiple scoring champion, you have to wonder what they know that we don't? Sure as hell wouldn't trust the Knicks medical staff to make that determination. Westbrook might be taking it to another level but you need more than one star to win. They have plenty of bigs, they have the best PG in the game right now. As much as it would be great to have a healthy Durant playing in NY, I would be mighty suspicious if OKC was willing to trade Durant for the number one pick, if we got it.

Without question--this is a franchise that has a lot in place right now even without Durant. They have already proven they will deal stars but this is a case where we want to steer clear of. Its very much like acquiring Carmelo. If Melo anted to play here bad enough--Wilson Chandler Gallinari Mosgov and 3 number 1 picks would have stayed here and we wouldnt be in this mess. We trade away picks like a drunk downing whiskey shots. We don't even know if Melo will be healthy or can sustain health. We do not have 1 frontocurt player under contract next year we dont have a PG under contract next year--our 2nd biggest contract belongs to a player who is without a doubt done or very close to done. To take a step further the team we have now--as is--lost to Minnesota last night on the B-B while using 7 players at home. Any NBA team cant be another at home--thats proven. We had a great night SA went up +13 and stopped playing. But when we take it down to a realistic level--this is a skeleton tam with its star played coming off major league knee surgery. We have o OTHER than our high draft pick and cap space.

We gave up a lot to get Melo but mgmt also made some bad decisions when it came to surrounding him with talent. Like giving JR another deal, the first round pick for Bargs, bringing back Felton.

There is only 1 way to build a basketball team. You have to separate free agency from the drafting process. ONLY in special circumstance would you change that. Look at the last 15 years of the draft ONLY 1 trade of a top 4 pick out of 60 taken--of which 67% were either franchise players or all stars. That means you have a 2/3 chance that the player you take will be a franchise player or all star and they are salary restricted.

Briggs, where are you getting those draft percentages from?