BRIGGS wrote:

Vmart wrote:Only way I see the Knicks take Towns is if they don't get the first pick. Ok4 is so much better than Towns.

I disagree. I had Okafor first nearly 95% of the year and I really like him but there are areas that separate each player and that will become apparent in the nBA. That being said I am happy with either--I would not consider us a loser in anyway rather a big winner. I just feel for our team that Towns would be my preferential pick.

I don't see it that way. I see a towns playing on a stacked team he isn't a focal point he doesn't see doubles or triple teams. With the wildcats it's pick your poison. I see Ok4 getting better exposure to what he will see on a consistent level in the NBA.

I won't mind having Towns just not over OK4 if the choice is given.

people look at the per game numbers and think it's all projection... it is not... when towns is on the court kentucky is a wildly different team... it's been like this all season...

TPercy wrote:

Vmart wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Vmart wrote:Only way I see the Knicks take Towns is if they don't get the first pick. Ok4 is so much better than Towns.

I disagree. I had Okafor first nearly 95% of the year and I really like him but there are areas that separate each player and that will become apparent in the nBA. That being said I am happy with either--I would not consider us a loser in anyway rather a big winner. I just feel for our team that Towns would be my preferential pick.

I don't see it that way. I see a towns playing on a stacked team he isn't a focal point he doesn't see doubles or triple teams. With the wildcats it's pick your poison. I see Ok4 getting better exposure to what he will see on a consistent level in the NBA.

I won't mind having Towns just not over OK4 if the choice is given.

You clearly don't watch any Kentucky games to be making that statement.

TPercy wrote:

Vmart wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Vmart wrote:Only way I see the Knicks take Towns is if they don't get the first pick. Ok4 is so much better than Towns.

I disagree. I had Okafor first nearly 95% of the year and I really like him but there are areas that separate each player and that will become apparent in the nBA. That being said I am happy with either--I would not consider us a loser in anyway rather a big winner. I just feel for our team that Towns would be my preferential pick.

I don't see it that way. I see a towns playing on a stacked team he isn't a focal point he doesn't see doubles or triple teams. With the wildcats it's pick your poison. I see Ok4 getting better exposure to what he will see on a consistent level in the NBA.

I won't mind having Towns just not over OK4 if the choice is given.

You clearly don't watch any Kentucky games to be making that statement.

No Vmart is right. Towns has faced barely any double teams all year Okafor lives with double teams all year almost every minute.

Still I question Okafor's range offensively. His FT shooting is not great at all and he has NOT shown a 12 footer. Obviously hes great at taking the ball from the post of shallow wing and using nimble moves to the basket for a deft touch around 8 feet and in. What happens here though is you are keeping his man near the basket--most likely a shot blocker rim protector. Towns can move in and out.

centers that are this young have to establish a couple things at this level.. a)defense b)efficient inside scoring...

okafor scores a 10 for efficient inside scoring... but he's about a 5 on defense when he needs to get to at least an 8...

towns is a 9 on defense with between a 7 to 8 on the inside scoring...

why ppl disagree so much between the two is they probably weigh offense more heavily than defense... and you just can't do that with center prospects...

BRIGGS wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Vmart wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Vmart wrote:Only way I see the Knicks take Towns is if they don't get the first pick. Ok4 is so much better than Towns.

I disagree. I had Okafor first nearly 95% of the year and I really like him but there are areas that separate each player and that will become apparent in the nBA. That being said I am happy with either--I would not consider us a loser in anyway rather a big winner. I just feel for our team that Towns would be my preferential pick.

I don't see it that way. I see a towns playing on a stacked team he isn't a focal point he doesn't see doubles or triple teams. With the wildcats it's pick your poison. I see Ok4 getting better exposure to what he will see on a consistent level in the NBA.

I won't mind having Towns just not over OK4 if the choice is given.

You clearly don't watch any Kentucky games to be making that statement.

No Vmart is right. Towns has faced barely any double teams all year Okafor lives with double teams all year almost every minute.

Still I question Okafor's range offensively. His FT shooting is not great at all and he has NOT shown a 12 footer. Obviously hes great at taking the ball from the post of shallow wing and using nimble moves to the basket for a deft touch around 8 feet and in. What happens here though is you are keeping his man near the basket--most likely a shot blocker rim protector. Towns can move in and out.

Exactly

BRIGGS wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Vmart wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Vmart wrote:Only way I see the Knicks take Towns is if they don't get the first pick. Ok4 is so much better than Towns.

I disagree. I had Okafor first nearly 95% of the year and I really like him but there are areas that separate each player and that will become apparent in the nBA. That being said I am happy with either--I would not consider us a loser in anyway rather a big winner. I just feel for our team that Towns would be my preferential pick.

I don't see it that way. I see a towns playing on a stacked team he isn't a focal point he doesn't see doubles or triple teams. With the wildcats it's pick your poison. I see Ok4 getting better exposure to what he will see on a consistent level in the NBA.

I won't mind having Towns just not over OK4 if the choice is given.

You clearly don't watch any Kentucky games to be making that statement.

No Vmart is right. Towns has faced barely any double teams all year Okafor lives with double teams all year almost every minute.

Still I question Okafor's range offensively. His FT shooting is not great at all and he has NOT shown a 12 footer. Obviously hes great at taking the ball from the post of shallow wing and using nimble moves to the basket for a deft touch around 8 feet and in. What happens here though is you are keeping his man near the basket--most likely a shot blocker rim protector. Towns can move in and out.

FistOfOakley wrote:

nixluva wrote:The thing about OK4 is that no team is going to be able to cover everything and still help on him. In the Triangle we'll have layers moving all the time and one of those players will be Melo. It makes a huge difference when you have a 60%+ big near the basket and he's tearing up your D inside but you still have to worry about Melo and possibly a Matthews on the perimeter. That's a recipe for a very good team.

that's a recipe for a very good OFFENSIVE team... there's another side to the basketball court...

we're knicks fans right? i mean.. we are supposed to know all about defense here...

Yeah, thats a bad recipe. This is why I said it's hard to build around Melo. If Melo was also a defensive stopper, then I would have no problems with OK4. But drafting OK4 is like having two Melo's in your starting lineup. Basically, the same interior defense we have right now. Thats not a good recipe.

Draft OK4....and trade him for Stein and other fillers. Now thats a good recipe.

Or

Draft OK4....and ask Melo where he would like to be traded to. Then add a defensive player at center to play with OK4 at PF.

Melo / OK4 is the same as Melo / Stat......There will be easy layups and dunks all season.

gunsnewing wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

TPercy wrote:

Vmart wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Vmart wrote:Only way I see the Knicks take Towns is if they don't get the first pick. Ok4 is so much better than Towns.

I disagree. I had Okafor first nearly 95% of the year and I really like him but there are areas that separate each player and that will become apparent in the nBA. That being said I am happy with either--I would not consider us a loser in anyway rather a big winner. I just feel for our team that Towns would be my preferential pick.

I don't see it that way. I see a towns playing on a stacked team he isn't a focal point he doesn't see doubles or triple teams. With the wildcats it's pick your poison. I see Ok4 getting better exposure to what he will see on a consistent level in the NBA.

I won't mind having Towns just not over OK4 if the choice is given.

You clearly don't watch any Kentucky games to be making that statement.

No Vmart is right. Towns has faced barely any double teams all year Okafor lives with double teams all year almost every minute.

Still I question Okafor's range offensively. His FT shooting is not great at all and he has NOT shown a 12 footer. Obviously hes great at taking the ball from the post of shallow wing and using nimble moves to the basket for a deft touch around 8 feet and in. What happens here though is you are keeping his man near the basket--most likely a shot blocker rim protector. Towns can move in and out.

Exactly

There are plenty of NBA stars that did not produce like OK4 in college. In fact, some of the stars didn't even attend college. So the draft is a crap shoot, regardless if the player has collegiate talent or not. Once you become an NBA player, it's like starting all over again. Thats why it's all about potential, ceiling and who's more coach-able at the NBA level. Who's hungry for stardom.

blkexec wrote:

FistOfOakley wrote:

nixluva wrote:The thing about OK4 is that no team is going to be able to cover everything and still help on him. In the Triangle we'll have layers moving all the time and one of those players will be Melo. It makes a huge difference when you have a 60%+ big near the basket and he's tearing up your D inside but you still have to worry about Melo and possibly a Matthews on the perimeter. That's a recipe for a very good team.

that's a recipe for a very good OFFENSIVE team... there's another side to the basketball court...

we're knicks fans right? i mean.. we are supposed to know all about defense here...

Yeah, thats a bad recipe. This is why I said it's hard to build around Melo. If Melo was also a defensive stopper, then I would have no problems with OK4. But drafting OK4 is like having two Melo's in your starting lineup. Basically, the same interior defense we have right now. Thats not a good recipe.

Draft OK4....and trade him for Stein and other fillers. Now thats a good recipe.

Or

Draft OK4....and ask Melo where he would like to be traded to. Then add a defensive player at center to play with OK4 at PF.

Melo / OK4 is the same as Melo / Stat......There will be easy layups and dunks all season.

Valid points, on top of it, like Billups said, he isn't a leader
He simply doesn't have the ability to facilitate consistently and make players around him better, a reason why Tyson Chandler, JR Smith, and Iman Shumpert has all played like we thought they were capable of playing, just not on the Knicks

With that said, those guys and players like Novak, Fields, Jared Jeffries, Bill Walker, etc, all played like good players when they are bottom tier talent with Jeremy Lin
If we are going to play off one player's skill set, he has to have the ability to create his own shot, create for others, and be able to make high % decisions
Prior to his knee injury, with the support of fans everywehre, and his confidence being at a super high level, his ability to penetrate did just that
Create high % shots, draw double/triple teams, and hit the open man with consistency....

CA is still a very good scorer and can be a very good shooter, however, his contract suggest that he should be able to do

1- dominate the points in a high FG % and draw double/triple teams
2- be the leader of the team
3- make players around him better
4- be able to create his shot and create for his team mates with high % shots
5- be a lock down type defender for his position and be
6- control the tempo of the game

he should be at the very least be able to do 4 of these things, GREAT PLAYERS like Jordan, Shaq *Lakers*, Lebron, Duncan, Westbrook can do ALL of these things
if he isn't able to do these things then he isn't the 1st piece that we should build around when there is a salary cap
I think he can still win a ring, however, he has to take the Robin role or have a super stacked team with talent on both ends of the floor
Just never as a Knick with the way we are constructed, now if we had many more picks and if he didn't sign an extension last summer, recruited players this season while taking less, different story...