BigRedDog wrote:

holfresh wrote:This is exactly what we all deserve...Woodson was winning here...He went 18-6 then won 54 games...This board was in uproar against Woodson after losing to Indiana in the second round..A team we should have lost to, by the way...He got zero fan and media support...Most here wanted him fired and you got it...Dolan listen to you, he beckoned your call...Exactly one month and half into his third season he was cut off at the knees...The Org was handed over to Phil and you cheered...Now we press on with the triangle and Fish at all cost...Eat it up..Don't complain please..

Right now, there isn't a plan..Seat of the pants GMing...If this don't work, lets make a trade...I sure hope Phil can pull out a miracle and land Aldridge in the off-season...Because next season will be long and there will be paper bags and chants in the Garden...

You REALLY think Phil doesn't have a plan??? Are you that clueless and ignorant of a fan that you don't think Phil knows what he wants to do? Maybe it doesn't work all the time but we are just in the initial phase of that plan. His hands were tied to a certain extent due to what he inherited but by the beginning of next season , even you should see that plan develop. As in the words of SNL " Holfresh you ignorant slut" get educated

Come on, the name calling is JV stuff, we are adults here...At the very least be a little creative...We don't even have a past history of rapport to explain the lame commentary...So humor me..The plan started out with the Knicks trying to make the playoffs...Calderon was to be part of the triangle and what Phil envisioned this team to be...He said a few days ago that there are no takers for Calderon...Why does he want to trade Calderon if he thought Calderon was part of his plan running the Triangle??...We now have zero supporting cast...This just went from a quick rebuild to a long term plan...So how does Melo now fit??...A plan doesn't change on a whim...

dk, what's better?..Debating the reasons we lost to Indiana in the second round or debating which day in March we will get our 11th win??

holfresh - 54 wins sucks. Everybody knows that.

EwingsGlass wrote:

holfresh wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:

holfresh wrote:This is exactly what we all deserve...Woodson was winning here...He went 18-6 then won 54 games...This board was in uproar against Woodson after losing to Indiana in the second round..A team we should have lost to, by the way...He got zero fan and media support...Most here wanted him fired and you got it...Dolan listen to you, he beckoned your call...Exactly one month and half into his third season he was cut off at the knees...The Org was handed over to Phil and you cheered...Now we press on with the triangle and Fish at all cost...Eat it up..Don't complain please..

Right now, there isn't a plan..Seat of the pants GMing...If this don't work, lets make a trade...I sure hope Phil can pull out a miracle and land Aldridge in the off-season...Because next season will be long and there will be paper bags and chants in the Garden...

You REALLY think Phil doesn't have a plan??? Are you that clueless and ignorant of a fan that you don't think Phil knows what he wants to do? Maybe it doesn't work all the time but we are just in the initial phase of that plan. His hands were tied to a certain extent due to what he inherited but by the beginning of next season , even you should see that plan develop. As in the words of SNL " Holfresh you ignorant slut" get educated

Come on, the name calling is JV stuff, we are adults here...At the very least be a little creative...We don't even have a past history of rapport to explain the lame commentary...So humor me..The plan started out with the Knicks trying to make the playoffs...Calderon was to be part of the triangle and what Phil envisioned this team to be...He said a few days ago that there are no takers for Calderon...Why does he want to trade Calderon if he thought Calderon was part of his plan running the Triangle??...We now have zero supporting cast...This just went from a quick rebuild to a long term plan...So how does Melo now fit??...A plan doesn't change on a whim...

I would trade Calderon if I could get a decent asset back to clear more cap space. I would not want to carry both Calderon at $7.4MM and another PG that would be looking for the max on the same roster -- so any trade for a PG had to be conditioned on moving Calderon. With the number of PGs in play, PJ had to entertain moving Calderon even if no realistic trade was plausible.

I am fine with Calderon. He fits the model we need for the triangle. In fact, PJs triangle doesn't really require a dominant PG. Armstrong, Kerr, Fisher were all decent fundamental PGs that shot at or above 40% behind the arc. Calderon fits that model well.

I would trade him too in a heart beat but what was the plan in bringing in a guy at that salary??

StarksEwing1 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Why is this being called an excellent post by some of you?

It's excellent to say we're doomed to be horrible for another decade?

This is sports not the 9/11... this is not the sports equivalent to building the freedom towers. This is not the earthquakes in haiti. It's sports.

We draft well, Melo comes back ready to go, we sign some legit nba players and mother****er we are back just like that. Stop swimming in misery you negative Nancy's. You can't bring positivity through negativity

its not being negative its being honest. Its not like we enjoy being critical but the knicks kind of put themselves in this position with terrible decisions. Granted getting a lottery pick is good BUT the draft is a crapshoot even though im a big believer in the draft. Cap space is good BUT doesnt guaranteed anything. Remember in 2010 we were in the same spot and missed out

Bonn1997 wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:Sometimes u need to take a step back in order to move forward. This is what I wanted the Knicks to do in 2011-12. Just let the 1st yr play out and see out it goes. They dug themselves a massive trench not letting that season play out. We needed to purge following that yr and we had the amnesty if Amare didn't recover. We can't have a repeat of that. This is a appropriate and prudent decision. It's not really up for debate.

Right, but Dolan's steps back usually aren't followed by steps forward

Haha! This actually made me laugh. I will allow Phil some time to see if he is actually running the team and will see how it plays out. I would assume Dolan wasn't a fan of going full tank mode. No his style. There were terrible contracts out there that we could have pursued.

Why bitch and moan in the middle of what will be a franchise changing season as long as we keep losing.
It may be ugly, but this is the nasty medicine that is necessary to reboot a franchise.

When people complain (especially publicly like the idiots with paper bags at 1 game)to no end they put pressure on the franchise to improve right away which would be the worst thing to happen. Let these guys lose in peace voice your peace in the offseason.

It would be really annoying if the Knicks start going on lil mini winning streaks to ruin their draft standing just to appease those who lack a long term vision.

nyvector16 wrote:A Thread like this is more of a scream for attention than anything real or valid to do with Basketball or the Knicks.

nyvector - the beauty of separate threads is that you can choose to participate, or ignore, to suit your taste.

If our beloved Knicks went on a "lil mini winning streak" (what is that, two games in a row?) it would be a confidence boost for the players on the court.

"You play to win the game." - Herm Edwards

misterearl wrote:Who's Mad?

newyorker4ever wrote:
Saying it's gonna take just as long to build this team back up as it's been that we've been bad is being negative. Saying we got rid of the bad contracts and we have a lottery pick and a bunch of money to spend and we're gonna be fine in a couple of years is being positive.

See the difference?

Bitching about only having 10 wins is just stupid because we have a team full of D-League players and UDFA's so what did you expect from a team like that?? Things are getting better for the Knicks and that's something fans should be happy about not mad about like the negative fans.

newyorker4ever - what you define as "bitching" over 10 wins is simply stating the current record. In the context of the rest of the league, that ten wins places our beloved franchise at the back of the pack among franchises with the same agenda... to improve every day by any means possible.

Unless you have evidence to the contrary, things are not getting better. The record determines what we are. Not negativism or positive vibes.

"You are what your record says you are." - Bill Parcells

A lottery pick and a bunch of money only equates to an opportunity for positive change. Whether that change equates to improving is pure speculation. It does not guarantee a damn thing.

Don't worry. Be happy? Of course. Let's celebrate the draft pick that has not been selected and the free agents to be named later. Just make certain the rest of the league is asleep at the wheel while we run free in the undergrad/ free agent candy store, picking goodies off the shelf, filling our carts with fresh produce and juicy treats.

Mr Earl, I believe this post makes you a Humist (aligned with the philosophy of David Hume) in that you only believe in what you see. Not to worry, there are many other sports fans out there with this philosophy. it certainly does require a leap of faith to project good things to come for the Knicks. However, the question you might ask yourself is, would the Knicks be better off at 20 wins or even 30? Would they be better off sneaking into the playoffs this year only to get bounced in the first round? I'm not concerned about the win total as the team is tanking to try and get as high of a draft slot as possible.

Phil's initial plan of shooting for the playoffs was a failure. That does not mean there is no altered plan. You can have faith and some patience to see how it all works out.....or you can birch and moan every day along the ride because you have no solid evidence that things have progressed from the day prior.

I choose to hold back and be patient until 2 significant milestones have passed. One is the draft and the other is free agency. I do not expect the team to be world beaters next year....but I want to see significant improvment.

foosballnick wrote:I do not expect the team to be world beaters next year....but I want to see significant improvement.

foosballnick - do you measure significant improvement by number of wins or by making the playoffs?

If it is the former, 30 wins would seem like a significant bump from 15.

newyorker4ever wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Why is this being called an excellent post by some of you?

It's excellent to say we're doomed to be horrible for another decade?

This is sports not the 9/11... this is not the sports equivalent to building the freedom towers. This is not the earthquakes in haiti. It's sports.

We draft well, Melo comes back ready to go, we sign some legit nba players and mother****er we are back just like that. Stop swimming in misery you negative Nancy's. You can't bring positivity through negativity

its not being negative its being honest. Its not like we enjoy being critical but the knicks kind of put themselves in this position with terrible decisions. Granted getting a lottery pick is good BUT the draft is a crapshoot even though im a big believer in the draft. Cap space is good BUT doesnt guaranteed anything. Remember in 2010 we were in the same spot and missed out

Saying it's gonna take just as long to build this team back up as it's been that we've been bad is being negative. Saying we got rid of the bad contracts and we have a lottery pick and a bunch of money to spend and we're gonna be fine in a couple of years is being positive. See the difference? Bitching about only having 10 wins is just stupid because we have a team full of D-League players and UDFA's so what did you expect from a team like that?? Things are getting better for the Knicks and that's something fans should be happy about not mad about like the negative fans.

nixluva wrote:Is this what it was like for Spurs fans when they tanked and got Duncan? At a certain point there should be some sense of recognition about what's going on. Not saying we'll be that successful but who knows who we'll draft. The losing may not be in vain for once.