knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:As much as I agree with your Insistence in talents, I disagree with your views regarding the coaching staff. I am one who truly believe that great coaches play a vital role in the success of a team, organization, etc. Judging on what I have seen thus far, I have little faith in Fisher as coach. I am not advocating for him to be fired, but if he doesn't show a better handle as a coach by next year, he will need to be replaced. He had the opportunity to establish his blueprint from the jump; specifically, given that he had the backing of Phil, but he failed to do so. If you ask me, he should have been much tougher on Csrmelo in the beginning; which would have garnered him respect from Carmelo's followers.

I understand how you feel, but it's really not about Fish IMO. Since the trade there was a very clear jump in execution and effort level. It's clear the team knows what it's trying to do now but only lacks enough talent to get wins. If you started Dragic for Jose and Matthews for Galloway you'd be talking about a much more potent team. Jose and Galloway would add depth to the bench while the starting unit would get MUCH more potent. It sounds simplistic but it is really about the talent at this point.

So you think fishers is going to be a great coach as long as he has great players playing for him..

So if his defensive philosophy is to disregard defending the 3 ball (in a 3 ball era)and worry about the paint, that he's just going to change that once we get new players, you think he's going to wake up one july morning and all of a sudden figure out how to make his players successful, how to teach them, how to tinker the system to fit the player.

You think FA are licking there chops to play for FISHER and his coaching staff, you think their saying they can wait to play for a young inexperience coach who guided his team to 15 wins. If you are a veteran player or a agent, is that what you would advise your client to do, would this be your best chance to win now.

Fisher lacks in so many coaching areas that it's complete time consuming thing to ever think he will figure it out sooner than later. He's not ready, he's not close to being ready. I understand your respect for the man, and the system. The triangle is not the only way to play team ball.

Even Phil and his people have said that the Triangle isn't the only way to play team ball. You can win with any quality system. The most important thing is to have talent that works well together. You don't want a mismatched team as we've had. You want a well constructed team that has high skill level and BB IQ. This way more of what a coach is teaching is translated on the court.

IMO there's less difference among coaches than people think. The real difference is the talent level and construction of the roster. Phil is going to be rebuilding this roster with what he needs to make his system work at it's best. This to me is a very smart approach. A great system paired with good players who are made for that style of play is the best situation. This is where our team is headed.

There isn't one single player thats played for the knicks under fisher this season, a better player, not one.

Despite not every player fitting into there system, At least under MDA and WOODSON some players where able to thrive at a extreme high level (lin, jefferies, melo, JR, felton, duhon, al harriington, Amare..

Yes it's easier to go with a simpler way of playing. PnR, Spread floor or ISO ball. That's not what Phil is trying to do. Perhaps you're just not picking up the nuances of all of this, but the level of passing and player movement these players are being taught is on another level. When we finally upgrade the talent as well it will all come together and then you'll understand.

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:As much as I agree with your Insistence in talents, I disagree with your views regarding the coaching staff. I am one who truly believe that great coaches play a vital role in the success of a team, organization, etc. Judging on what I have seen thus far, I have little faith in Fisher as coach. I am not advocating for him to be fired, but if he doesn't show a better handle as a coach by next year, he will need to be replaced. He had the opportunity to establish his blueprint from the jump; specifically, given that he had the backing of Phil, but he failed to do so. If you ask me, he should have been much tougher on Csrmelo in the beginning; which would have garnered him respect from Carmelo's followers.

I understand how you feel, but it's really not about Fish IMO. Since the trade there was a very clear jump in execution and effort level. It's clear the team knows what it's trying to do now but only lacks enough talent to get wins. If you started Dragic for Jose and Matthews for Galloway you'd be talking about a much more potent team. Jose and Galloway would add depth to the bench while the starting unit would get MUCH more potent. It sounds simplistic but it is really about the talent at this point.

So you think fishers is going to be a great coach as long as he has great players playing for him..

So if his defensive philosophy is to disregard defending the 3 ball (in a 3 ball era)and worry about the paint, that he's just going to change that once we get new players, you think he's going to wake up one july morning and all of a sudden figure out how to make his players successful, how to teach them, how to tinker the system to fit the player.

You think FA are licking there chops to play for FISHER and his coaching staff, you think their saying they can wait to play for a young inexperience coach who guided his team to 15 wins. If you are a veteran player or a agent, is that what you would advise your client to do, would this be your best chance to win now.

Fisher lacks in so many coaching areas that it's complete time consuming thing to ever think he will figure it out sooner than later. He's not ready, he's not close to being ready. I understand your respect for the man, and the system. The triangle is not the only way to play team ball.

Even Phil and his people have said that the Triangle isn't the only way to play team ball. You can win with any quality system. The most important thing is to have talent that works well together. You don't want a mismatched team as we've had. You want a well constructed team that has high skill level and BB IQ. This way more of what a coach is teaching is translated on the court.

IMO there's less difference among coaches than people think. The real difference is the talent level and construction of the roster. Phil is going to be rebuilding this roster with what he needs to make his system work at it's best. This to me is a very smart approach. A great system paired with good players who are made for that style of play is the best situation. This is where our team is headed.

There isn't one single player thats played for the knicks under fisher this season, a better player, not one.

Despite not every player fitting into there system, At least under MDA and WOODSON some players where able to thrive at a extreme high level (lin, jefferies, melo, JR, felton, duhon, al harriington, Amare..

You're looking at this in the wrong way. This year is about establishing the new culture and style of play. The System is now established with the Pro team and the D League team. Our developing prospects are being immersed in this culture and will be brought along as they improve. This is the right way to do things. It's not just about this year but the years to come. Fish and the players will get better. We're actually starting to build something here and tho you can't see exactly what the finished product will be the foundation will be strong. The scouting staff and coaches all are being taught the same things and are of one mind. That's how you build a great organization.

Yes it's easier to go with a simpler way of playing. PnR, Spread floor or ISO ball. That's not what Phil is trying to do. Perhaps you're just not picking up the nuances of all of this, but the level of passing and player movement these players are being taught is on another level. When we finally upgrade the talent as well it will all come together and then you'll understand.

I get it,this is a developing yr, new culture, but there is only one small problem, no one looks any better then they did in october, we have a losing culture.

Thats why you fans that want to keep losing to gain draft position for 1 non franchise player, while sacrificing the development of many players and the head coach and his staff, not to mention drawing FA.. you guys don't understand the big pitcher.

All you guys care about is this ONE player from college thats going to come to the knicks like SUPERMAN, and all the FA's going to flock to join his 5 yr development

I think we understand the big picture perfectly. That's what i've been trying to explain to you. Losing games is only one aspect of things and you're not really looking at the many ways this franchise is moving forward. At this early stage it's not just about W/L's. If you think that's the only sign of whether this franchise is moving forward then you are totally missing what's been going on. The team is still progressing as is the entire franchise including the D League team. It's not gonna always show in the W/L column this year.

So yes having a possible top 4 draft pick is a big deal when you're looking to rebuild the roster as is having cap space to add needed talent as well. That on top of developing players we already have in the system is all part of it. It's the entire picture not just one aspect of it. Everyone is moving in the same direction now.

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:As much as I agree with your Insistence in talents, I disagree with your views regarding the coaching staff. I am one who truly believe that great coaches play a vital role in the success of a team, organization, etc. Judging on what I have seen thus far, I have little faith in Fisher as coach. I am not advocating for him to be fired, but if he doesn't show a better handle as a coach by next year, he will need to be replaced. He had the opportunity to establish his blueprint from the jump; specifically, given that he had the backing of Phil, but he failed to do so. If you ask me, he should have been much tougher on Csrmelo in the beginning; which would have garnered him respect from Carmelo's followers.

I understand how you feel, but it's really not about Fish IMO. Since the trade there was a very clear jump in execution and effort level. It's clear the team knows what it's trying to do now but only lacks enough talent to get wins. If you started Dragic for Jose and Matthews for Galloway you'd be talking about a much more potent team. Jose and Galloway would add depth to the bench while the starting unit would get MUCH more potent. It sounds simplistic but it is really about the talent at this point.

So you think fishers is going to be a great coach as long as he has great players playing for him..

So if his defensive philosophy is to disregard defending the 3 ball (in a 3 ball era)and worry about the paint, that he's just going to change that once we get new players, you think he's going to wake up one july morning and all of a sudden figure out how to make his players successful, how to teach them, how to tinker the system to fit the player.

You think FA are licking there chops to play for FISHER and his coaching staff, you think their saying they can wait to play for a young inexperience coach who guided his team to 15 wins. If you are a veteran player or a agent, is that what you would advise your client to do, would this be your best chance to win now.

Fisher lacks in so many coaching areas that it's complete time consuming thing to ever think he will figure it out sooner than later. He's not ready, he's not close to being ready. I understand your respect for the man, and the system. The triangle is not the only way to play team ball.

Even Phil and his people have said that the Triangle isn't the only way to play team ball. You can win with any quality system. The most important thing is to have talent that works well together. You don't want a mismatched team as we've had. You want a well constructed team that has high skill level and BB IQ. This way more of what a coach is teaching is translated on the court.

IMO there's less difference among coaches than people think. The real difference is the talent level and construction of the roster. Phil is going to be rebuilding this roster with what he needs to make his system work at it's best. This to me is a very smart approach. A great system paired with good players who are made for that style of play is the best situation. This is where our team is headed.

There isn't one single player thats played for the knicks under fisher this season, a better player, not one.

Despite not every player fitting into there system, At least under MDA and WOODSON some players where able to thrive at a extreme high level (lin, jefferies, melo, JR, felton, duhon, al harriington, Amare..

You're looking at this in the wrong way. This year is about establishing the new culture and style of play. The System is now established with the Pro team and the D League team. Our developing prospects are being immersed in this culture and will be brought along as they improve. This is the right way to do things. It's not just about this year but the years to come. Fish and the players will get better. We're actually starting to build something here and tho you can't see exactly what the finished product will be the foundation will be strong. The scouting staff and coaches all are being taught the same things and are of one mind. That's how you build a great organization.

Yes it's easier to go with a simpler way of playing. PnR, Spread floor or ISO ball. That's not what Phil is trying to do. Perhaps you're just not picking up the nuances of all of this, but the level of passing and player movement these players are being taught is on another level. When we finally upgrade the talent as well it will all come together and then you'll understand.

I get it,this is a developing yr, new culture, but there is only one small problem, no one looks any better then they did in october, we have a losing culture.

Thats why you fans that want to keep losing to gain draft position for 1 non franchise player, while sacrificing the development of many players and the head coach and his staff, not to mention drawing FA.. you guys don't understand the big pitcher.

All you guys care about is this ONE player from college thats going to come to the knicks like SUPERMAN, and all the FA's going to flock to join his 5 yr development

When you say that no one looks any better than at the start you're just wrong. Individual growth comes on different levels. In terms of individuals improving skills, that will come in the offseason, but our players have gained more understanding and better execution of the system. Some guys need more work on their individual skills which will allow them to do more. A kid like Early has to add dribble drive skills and go to moves to his game and he's not going to be able to do that in season.

I think we understand the big picture perfectly. That's what i've been trying to explain to you. Losing games is only one aspect of things and you're not really looking at the many ways this franchise is moving forward. At this early stage it's not just about W/L's. If you think that's the only sign of whether this franchise is moving forward then you are totally missing what's been going on. The team is still progressing as is the entire franchise including the D League team. It's not gonna always show in the W/L column this year.

So yes having a possible top 4 draft pick is a big deal when you're looking to rebuild the roster as is having cap space to add needed talent as well. That on top of developing players we already have in the system is all part of it. It's the entire picture not just one aspect of it. Everyone is moving in the same direction now.

Who's blue print are you studying...tell me why the same 10 teams are always in the lottery,yr aftr yr despite all these top draft picks that they draft..then tell me why it will be different in ny with a rookie coach. I'll bet you $500 that next season will be no different form this season if fisher is still the coach, thats when you'll come arnd and come to the realization thats he sucks.

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Who's blue print are you studying...tell me why the same 10 teams are always in the lottery,yr aftr yr despite all these top draft picks that they draft..then tell me why it will be different in ny with a rookie coach. I'll bet you $500 that next season will be no different form this season if fisher is still the coach, thats when you'll come arnd and come to the realization thats he sucks.

Phil has a system and he knows what kind of players he needs for it to work. Not all teams go in with a specific blueprint. Most of those losing teams just wing it. The Sixers are just gathering talent, but there's no clear direction to any of it. Here we have a system that has specific needs and we'll be addressing those needs in the draft. It's not a big mystery what Phil is looking to do here. Phil isn't actually winging it as some think.

An effective offense, to my way of thinking, features the following dimensions:

1. Penetration. Players must penetrate the defense, and the best way to do this is the fast break, because basketball is a full-court game, from baseline to baseline.

2. Spacing. I am a fanatic about how players distribute themselves on the offensive end of the court. They must space themselves in a way that makes it most difficult to defend, trap, and help. Players must align a certain number of feet apart. In high school, I’d recommend 12 to 15 feet spacing, in college, 15 to18 feet, and in the NBA, 15 to 20 feet. Proper spacing not only exposes individual defensive players’ vulnerabilities, but also ensures that every time the defense tries to trap, an offensive player will be open.

3. Ball and player movements. Players must move, and must move the ball, with a purpose. Effective off-the-ball activity is much more important than most fans and players think because they’re so used to watching only the movement of the ball and the player in possession of it. But there is only one ball and there are five players, meaning most players will have the ball in their hands 20 percent or less of the time the team is in possession of the ball.

4. Options for the ball handler. The more options a smart player has to attack a defender, the more successful that offensive player will be. When teammates are all moving to positions to free themselves (or another teammate with a pick), the ball handler’s choices are vastly increased.

5. Offensive rebounding and defensive balance. On all shots we take, players must go strong for the rebound while retaining court balance and awareness to prevent the opponent’s fast break.

6. Versatile positioning. The offense must offer to any player the chance to fill any spot on the court, independent of the player’s role. All positions should be interchangeable.

7. Use individual talents. It only makes sense for an offense to allow a team to take advantage of the skill sets of its best players. This doesn’t preclude the focus on team play that is emphasized in the six other principles, but it does acknowledge that some individuals have certain types and degrees of talent, and an offense should accentuate those assets. Michael Jordan taught me this.

Finally, I want the offense to flow from rebound to fast break, to quick offense, to a system of offense. The defenses in the NBA are so good because the players are so big, quick, and well coached. Add the pressure that the 24-second clock rule applies to the offense to find a good shot, and the defense gets even better.
The triangle offense has proven most effective, even against such obstacles, when players commit to and execute the system. The offense hinges on players attending to minute details in executing not just plays but also the fundamentals underlying the plays. Once players have mastered the individual techniques required of their roles, we then integrate those individuals into a team. Once this is done, the foundation for a good offense is solidly in place. The team can then go on the court with the confidence and poise so essential to success.

This method of play is as old as basketball. The triangle set is adjustable to the personnel, but such adaptations can be made without altering the essence of the offense. The only necessary adjustment from one season to the next involves tailoring the series of options based on each individual’s talents.

phil isn't coaching, If he was we wouldn't be having this conversation. he's not even traveling with the team, or at practice's on a daily. From a mental stand point, Fisher is way over his head. The minute he stated how baffle he was that he had to get players motivated, That was confirmation for me.

He thinks millionaires that came from nothing are motivated. The only thing that can save avg coaches, are floor leaders and veterans. You can have all the talent in the world,and it's nothing without veteran leadership and a floor general.

I would love guy a like fish on my coaching staff, but there are some people that you can see off the break, that their not set out to be a head coach.

The difference between Kerr, Fish, and KIdd

Kidd has the Bucks playing the exact same style he had the knicks and NETS playing.

Kerr is playing a style that fits his players, he's playing a style that his players will have the most success

Fisher is playing a style his president is some what forcing him to play, and his players are looking worse by the game on both ends. he has a few guys on this team that play hard because they have no contract next yr.

You feel good about yourself when you help your team win, it builds confidence and trust, then you get a better idea of what type of play you have.

But if I'm seeing this kid turning over the ball in the clutch, missing FT, poor defense, wild shots, am i suppose to think he's doing that on purpose to help the team get a high draft pick, am I suppose to say he'll be great addition to the roster next yr.

So what are going to do, throw away 13 guys on the roster because they help you tank, or keep them because you know for sure they will be much more consistent, much better defenders, much more smarter, triangle ready....9 months from now.

If you can't see my point, then your completely blinded by optimism..

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Who's blue print are you studying...tell me why the same 10 teams are always in the lottery,yr aftr yr despite all these top draft picks that they draft..then tell me why it will be different in ny with a rookie coach. I'll bet you $500 that next season will be no different form this season if fisher is still the coach, thats when you'll come arnd and come to the realization thats he sucks.

Phil has a system and he knows what kind of players he needs for it to work. Not all teams go in with a specific blueprint. Most of those losing teams just wing it. The Sixers are just gathering talent, but there's no clear direction to any of it. Here we have a system that has specific needs and we'll be addressing those needs in the draft. It's not a big mystery what Phil is looking to do here. Phil isn't actually winging it as some think.

An effective offense, to my way of thinking, features the following dimensions:

1. Penetration. Players must penetrate the defense, and the best way to do this is the fast break, because basketball is a full-court game, from baseline to baseline.

2. Spacing. I am a fanatic about how players distribute themselves on the offensive end of the court. They must space themselves in a way that makes it most difficult to defend, trap, and help. Players must align a certain number of feet apart. In high school, I’d recommend 12 to 15 feet spacing, in college, 15 to18 feet, and in the NBA, 15 to 20 feet. Proper spacing not only exposes individual defensive players’ vulnerabilities, but also ensures that every time the defense tries to trap, an offensive player will be open.

3. Ball and player movements. Players must move, and must move the ball, with a purpose. Effective off-the-ball activity is much more important than most fans and players think because they’re so used to watching only the movement of the ball and the player in possession of it. But there is only one ball and there are five players, meaning most players will have the ball in their hands 20 percent or less of the time the team is in possession of the ball.

4. Options for the ball handler. The more options a smart player has to attack a defender, the more successful that offensive player will be. When teammates are all moving to positions to free themselves (or another teammate with a pick), the ball handler’s choices are vastly increased.

5. Offensive rebounding and defensive balance. On all shots we take, players must go strong for the rebound while retaining court balance and awareness to prevent the opponent’s fast break.

6. Versatile positioning. The offense must offer to any player the chance to fill any spot on the court, independent of the player’s role. All positions should be interchangeable.

7. Use individual talents. It only makes sense for an offense to allow a team to take advantage of the skill sets of its best players. This doesn’t preclude the focus on team play that is emphasized in the six other principles, but it does acknowledge that some individuals have certain types and degrees of talent, and an offense should accentuate those assets. Michael Jordan taught me this.

Finally, I want the offense to flow from rebound to fast break, to quick offense, to a system of offense. The defenses in the NBA are so good because the players are so big, quick, and well coached. Add the pressure that the 24-second clock rule applies to the offense to find a good shot, and the defense gets even better.
The triangle offense has proven most effective, even against such obstacles, when players commit to and execute the system. The offense hinges on players attending to minute details in executing not just plays but also the fundamentals underlying the plays. Once players have mastered the individual techniques required of their roles, we then integrate those individuals into a team. Once this is done, the foundation for a good offense is solidly in place. The team can then go on the court with the confidence and poise so essential to success.

This method of play is as old as basketball. The triangle set is adjustable to the personnel, but such adaptations can be made without altering the essence of the offense. The only necessary adjustment from one season to the next involves tailoring the series of options based on each individual’s talents.

phil isn't coaching, If he was we wouldn't be having this conversation. he's not even traveling with the team, or at practice's on a daily. From a mental stand point, Fisher is way over his head. The minute he stated how baffle he was that he had to get players motivated, That was confirmation for me.

He thinks millionaires that came from nothing are motivated. The only thing that can save avg coaches, are floor leaders and veterans. You can have all the talent in the world,and it's nothing without veteran leadership and a floor general.

I would love guy a like fish on my coaching staff, but there are some people that you can see off the break, that their not set out to be a head coach.

The difference between Kerr, Fish, and KIdd

Kidd has the Bucks playing the exact same style he had the knicks and NETS playing.

Kerr is playing a style that fits his players, he's playing a style that his players will have the most success

Fisher is playing a style his president is some what forcing him to play, and his players are looking worse by the game on both ends. he has a few guys on this team that play hard because they have no contract next yr.

You feel good about yourself when you help your team win, it builds confidence and trust, then you get a better idea of what type of play you have.

But if I'm seeing this kid turning over the ball in the clutch, missing FT, poor defense, wild shots, am i suppose to think he's doing that on purpose to help the team get a high draft pick, am I suppose to say he'll be great addition to the roster next yr.

So what are going to do, throw away 13 guys on the roster because they help you tank, or keep them because you know for sure they will be much more consistent, much better defenders, much more smarter, triangle ready....9 months from now.

If you can't see my point, then your completely blinded by optimism..

It's like you didn't read a damn thing I posted!!! The list above is a guiding set of principles that Phil was taught by Tex Winters and he's passing on to Fish. It's not about Phil coaching the team or not. Everything that is going on has Phil's imprint and Fish and his staff are adding their own ideas to the mix much as Phil did with what he learned from Tex. It's a part of the structure of the new culture here. Phil and his entire staff are working together to rebuild this franchise. There's a crystal clear philosophy and system in place and Phil is going to give Fish what he needs to succeed running this team. Phil has stated that he gets together with Fish and Rambis after games to go over everything and work on making improvements. That would include adding tweaks to the Triangle or anything else that they feel would help. Still getting results is not always as simple as 2+2=4.

There is so much criticism of Fish based off of this season which is fine, but not necessarily predictive of what Fish is going to be like as he moves along in his career. Kidd was not immediately successful as a rookie coach. I think Fish has shown enough growth this year and i'm sure he's learning a lot that will help him in his 2nd season. I think Perhaps there is a lack of understanding about what a coach can realistically be expected to do. Players that we have are not high draft pick, ready made products. A few months into this season it's just not reasonable to think the young players will have it all figured out and play virtually mistake free. Just watching other teams with young players you can see that they're still making dumb mistakes as well. It's not a simple process and it's gonna take some time.

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Who's blue print are you studying...tell me why the same 10 teams are always in the lottery,yr aftr yr despite all these top draft picks that they draft..then tell me why it will be different in ny with a rookie coach. I'll bet you $500 that next season will be no different form this season if fisher is still the coach, thats when you'll come arnd and come to the realization thats he sucks.

Phil has a system and he knows what kind of players he needs for it to work. Not all teams go in with a specific blueprint. Most of those losing teams just wing it. The Sixers are just gathering talent, but there's no clear direction to any of it. Here we have a system that has specific needs and we'll be addressing those needs in the draft. It's not a big mystery what Phil is looking to do here. Phil isn't actually winging it as some think.

An effective offense, to my way of thinking, features the following dimensions:

1. Penetration. Players must penetrate the defense, and the best way to do this is the fast break, because basketball is a full-court game, from baseline to baseline.

2. Spacing. I am a fanatic about how players distribute themselves on the offensive end of the court. They must space themselves in a way that makes it most difficult to defend, trap, and help. Players must align a certain number of feet apart. In high school, I’d recommend 12 to 15 feet spacing, in college, 15 to18 feet, and in the NBA, 15 to 20 feet. Proper spacing not only exposes individual defensive players’ vulnerabilities, but also ensures that every time the defense tries to trap, an offensive player will be open.

3. Ball and player movements. Players must move, and must move the ball, with a purpose. Effective off-the-ball activity is much more important than most fans and players think because they’re so used to watching only the movement of the ball and the player in possession of it. But there is only one ball and there are five players, meaning most players will have the ball in their hands 20 percent or less of the time the team is in possession of the ball.

4. Options for the ball handler. The more options a smart player has to attack a defender, the more successful that offensive player will be. When teammates are all moving to positions to free themselves (or another teammate with a pick), the ball handler’s choices are vastly increased.

5. Offensive rebounding and defensive balance. On all shots we take, players must go strong for the rebound while retaining court balance and awareness to prevent the opponent’s fast break.

6. Versatile positioning. The offense must offer to any player the chance to fill any spot on the court, independent of the player’s role. All positions should be interchangeable.

7. Use individual talents. It only makes sense for an offense to allow a team to take advantage of the skill sets of its best players. This doesn’t preclude the focus on team play that is emphasized in the six other principles, but it does acknowledge that some individuals have certain types and degrees of talent, and an offense should accentuate those assets. Michael Jordan taught me this.

Finally, I want the offense to flow from rebound to fast break, to quick offense, to a system of offense. The defenses in the NBA are so good because the players are so big, quick, and well coached. Add the pressure that the 24-second clock rule applies to the offense to find a good shot, and the defense gets even better.
The triangle offense has proven most effective, even against such obstacles, when players commit to and execute the system. The offense hinges on players attending to minute details in executing not just plays but also the fundamentals underlying the plays. Once players have mastered the individual techniques required of their roles, we then integrate those individuals into a team. Once this is done, the foundation for a good offense is solidly in place. The team can then go on the court with the confidence and poise so essential to success.

This method of play is as old as basketball. The triangle set is adjustable to the personnel, but such adaptations can be made without altering the essence of the offense. The only necessary adjustment from one season to the next involves tailoring the series of options based on each individual’s talents.

phil isn't coaching, If he was we wouldn't be having this conversation. he's not even traveling with the team, or at practice's on a daily. From a mental stand point, Fisher is way over his head. The minute he stated how baffle he was that he had to get players motivated, That was confirmation for me.

He thinks millionaires that came from nothing are motivated. The only thing that can save avg coaches, are floor leaders and veterans. You can have all the talent in the world,and it's nothing without veteran leadership and a floor general.

I would love guy a like fish on my coaching staff, but there are some people that you can see off the break, that their not set out to be a head coach.

The difference between Kerr, Fish, and KIdd

Kidd has the Bucks playing the exact same style he had the knicks and NETS playing.

Kerr is playing a style that fits his players, he's playing a style that his players will have the most success

Fisher is playing a style his president is some what forcing him to play, and his players are looking worse by the game on both ends. he has a few guys on this team that play hard because they have no contract next yr.

You feel good about yourself when you help your team win, it builds confidence and trust, then you get a better idea of what type of play you have.

But if I'm seeing this kid turning over the ball in the clutch, missing FT, poor defense, wild shots, am i suppose to think he's doing that on purpose to help the team get a high draft pick, am I suppose to say he'll be great addition to the roster next yr.

So what are going to do, throw away 13 guys on the roster because they help you tank, or keep them because you know for sure they will be much more consistent, much better defenders, much more smarter, triangle ready....9 months from now.

If you can't see my point, then your completely blinded by optimism..

It's like you didn't read a damn thing I posted!!! The list above is a guiding set of principles that Phil was taught by Tex Winters and he's passing on to Fish. It's not about Phil coaching the team or not. Everything that is going on has Phil's imprint and Fish and his staff are adding their own ideas to the mix much as Phil did with what he learned from Tex. It's a part of the structure of the new culture here. Phil and his entire staff are working together to rebuild this franchise. There's a crystal clear philosophy and system in place and Phil is going to give Fish what he needs to succeed running this team. Phil has stated that he gets together with Fish and Rambis after games to go over everything and work on making improvements. That would include adding tweaks to the Triangle or anything else that they feel would help. Still getting results is not always as simple as 2+2=4.

There is so much criticism of Fish based off of this season which is fine, but not necessarily predictive of what Fish is going to be like as he moves along in his career. Kidd was not immediately successful as a rookie coach. I think Fish has shown enough growth this year and i'm sure he's learning a lot that will help him in his 2nd season. I think Perhaps there is a lack of understanding about what a coach can realistically be expected to do. Players that we have are not high draft pick, ready made products. A few months into this season it's just not reasonable to think the young players will have it all figured out and play virtually mistake free. Just watching other teams with young players you can see that they're still making dumb mistakes as well. It's not a simple process and it's gonna take some time.

You judge growth by success, if your having the same results as you had from day 1, how is that growing. Were still dead last at guarding the 3 ball, because his philosophy hasn't change, and it continues to be the death of us every game. Where 50 games in, this isn't November or early December, this is more than halfway through.

You and I both Know that any other coach would have been fired, rookie or not. The only reason fish is still here is because of Phil. In any sport, there's a coaching change before a player change. What has fisher and his staff added to the triangle, to help is players succeed, or put them in a position to have success.

Give me something that i should look forward to besides hope and pray. Why don't you just say I'm giving phil and fisher a 2nd chance, don't sugar coated and say they are building something special. Phil was at least honest and said he fcked up, fisher is still yet to take accountability on anything or any loss.

Knicks1969 wrote:Here is the question: if Shaw becomes available, should Phill hire HIM to coach the Triangle or stay with Fisher at the helm???????

you really think that Phil would shuffle coaches in and out like that?

Knicks1969 wrote:

martin wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:Here is the question: if Shaw becomes available, should Phill hire HIM to coach the Triangle or stay with Fisher at the helm???????

you really think that Phil would shuffle coaches in and out like that?

Just asking a question. My choice would be for fisher to get reassigned as Phil main man instead of Mills, and hire Shaw to coach the team.

What has Shaw showed you to warrant this?

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Who's blue print are you studying...tell me why the same 10 teams are always in the lottery,yr aftr yr despite all these top draft picks that they draft..then tell me why it will be different in ny with a rookie coach. I'll bet you $500 that next season will be no different form this season if fisher is still the coach, thats when you'll come arnd and come to the realization thats he sucks.

Phil has a system and he knows what kind of players he needs for it to work. Not all teams go in with a specific blueprint. Most of those losing teams just wing it. The Sixers are just gathering talent, but there's no clear direction to any of it. Here we have a system that has specific needs and we'll be addressing those needs in the draft. It's not a big mystery what Phil is looking to do here. Phil isn't actually winging it as some think.

An effective offense, to my way of thinking, features the following dimensions:

1. Penetration. Players must penetrate the defense, and the best way to do this is the fast break, because basketball is a full-court game, from baseline to baseline.

2. Spacing. I am a fanatic about how players distribute themselves on the offensive end of the court. They must space themselves in a way that makes it most difficult to defend, trap, and help. Players must align a certain number of feet apart. In high school, I’d recommend 12 to 15 feet spacing, in college, 15 to18 feet, and in the NBA, 15 to 20 feet. Proper spacing not only exposes individual defensive players’ vulnerabilities, but also ensures that every time the defense tries to trap, an offensive player will be open.

3. Ball and player movements. Players must move, and must move the ball, with a purpose. Effective off-the-ball activity is much more important than most fans and players think because they’re so used to watching only the movement of the ball and the player in possession of it. But there is only one ball and there are five players, meaning most players will have the ball in their hands 20 percent or less of the time the team is in possession of the ball.

4. Options for the ball handler. The more options a smart player has to attack a defender, the more successful that offensive player will be. When teammates are all moving to positions to free themselves (or another teammate with a pick), the ball handler’s choices are vastly increased.

5. Offensive rebounding and defensive balance. On all shots we take, players must go strong for the rebound while retaining court balance and awareness to prevent the opponent’s fast break.

6. Versatile positioning. The offense must offer to any player the chance to fill any spot on the court, independent of the player’s role. All positions should be interchangeable.

7. Use individual talents. It only makes sense for an offense to allow a team to take advantage of the skill sets of its best players. This doesn’t preclude the focus on team play that is emphasized in the six other principles, but it does acknowledge that some individuals have certain types and degrees of talent, and an offense should accentuate those assets. Michael Jordan taught me this.

Finally, I want the offense to flow from rebound to fast break, to quick offense, to a system of offense. The defenses in the NBA are so good because the players are so big, quick, and well coached. Add the pressure that the 24-second clock rule applies to the offense to find a good shot, and the defense gets even better.
The triangle offense has proven most effective, even against such obstacles, when players commit to and execute the system. The offense hinges on players attending to minute details in executing not just plays but also the fundamentals underlying the plays. Once players have mastered the individual techniques required of their roles, we then integrate those individuals into a team. Once this is done, the foundation for a good offense is solidly in place. The team can then go on the court with the confidence and poise so essential to success.

This method of play is as old as basketball. The triangle set is adjustable to the personnel, but such adaptations can be made without altering the essence of the offense. The only necessary adjustment from one season to the next involves tailoring the series of options based on each individual’s talents.

phil isn't coaching, If he was we wouldn't be having this conversation. he's not even traveling with the team, or at practice's on a daily. From a mental stand point, Fisher is way over his head. The minute he stated how baffle he was that he had to get players motivated, That was confirmation for me.

He thinks millionaires that came from nothing are motivated. The only thing that can save avg coaches, are floor leaders and veterans. You can have all the talent in the world,and it's nothing without veteran leadership and a floor general.

I would love guy a like fish on my coaching staff, but there are some people that you can see off the break, that their not set out to be a head coach.

The difference between Kerr, Fish, and KIdd

Kidd has the Bucks playing the exact same style he had the knicks and NETS playing.

Kerr is playing a style that fits his players, he's playing a style that his players will have the most success

Fisher is playing a style his president is some what forcing him to play, and his players are looking worse by the game on both ends. he has a few guys on this team that play hard because they have no contract next yr.

You feel good about yourself when you help your team win, it builds confidence and trust, then you get a better idea of what type of play you have.

But if I'm seeing this kid turning over the ball in the clutch, missing FT, poor defense, wild shots, am i suppose to think he's doing that on purpose to help the team get a high draft pick, am I suppose to say he'll be great addition to the roster next yr.

So what are going to do, throw away 13 guys on the roster because they help you tank, or keep them because you know for sure they will be much more consistent, much better defenders, much more smarter, triangle ready....9 months from now.

If you can't see my point, then your completely blinded by optimism..

It's like you didn't read a damn thing I posted!!! The list above is a guiding set of principles that Phil was taught by Tex Winters and he's passing on to Fish. It's not about Phil coaching the team or not. Everything that is going on has Phil's imprint and Fish and his staff are adding their own ideas to the mix much as Phil did with what he learned from Tex. It's a part of the structure of the new culture here. Phil and his entire staff are working together to rebuild this franchise. There's a crystal clear philosophy and system in place and Phil is going to give Fish what he needs to succeed running this team. Phil has stated that he gets together with Fish and Rambis after games to go over everything and work on making improvements. That would include adding tweaks to the Triangle or anything else that they feel would help. Still getting results is not always as simple as 2+2=4.

There is so much criticism of Fish based off of this season which is fine, but not necessarily predictive of what Fish is going to be like as he moves along in his career. Kidd was not immediately successful as a rookie coach. I think Fish has shown enough growth this year and i'm sure he's learning a lot that will help him in his 2nd season. I think Perhaps there is a lack of understanding about what a coach can realistically be expected to do. Players that we have are not high draft pick, ready made products. A few months into this season it's just not reasonable to think the young players will have it all figured out and play virtually mistake free. Just watching other teams with young players you can see that they're still making dumb mistakes as well. It's not a simple process and it's gonna take some time.

You judge growth by success, if your having the same results as you had from day 1, how is that growing. Were still dead last at guarding the 3 ball, because his philosophy hasn't change, and it continues to be the death of us every game. Where 50 games in, this isn't November or early December, this is more than halfway through.

You and I both Know that any other coach would have been fired, rookie or not. The only reason fish is still here is because of Phil. In any sport, there's a coaching change before a player change. What has fisher and his staff added to the triangle, to help is players succeed, or put them in a position to have success.

Give me something that i should look forward to besides hope and pray. Why don't you just say I'm giving phil and fisher a 2nd chance, don't sugar coated and say they are building something special. Phil was at least honest and said he fcked up, fisher is still yet to take accountability on anything or any loss.

I think i've tried to make this point repeatedly but it's being lost somehow. You have to realize that there's only so much that can be done with this roster as it is, which is why we can expect some new additions. The Knicks were losing games at an alarming clip and recently the team has played much better and actually won some games. This team just isn't good enough to win games. They're executing the offense and giving effort on D, but we also have some players who are just not that good. It's that simple. We need more Offensive and Defensive talent.

You don't change the coach when you know that the team doesn't have enough talent. That would just be stupid. Only way that would make sense is if the players weren't responding to Fish or clearly having issues with him as head coach. The team plays hard for him but they make mistakes and miss shots because they aren't good enough. You're saying that you know more about coaching than Phil who is watching the games and reviews tapes and knows what to look for. I think you are mistaken.

I've given this example and you seem to have just ignored it. If you improved the SL with Dragic in place of Jose and Matthews instead of Galloway and let's just say Okafor instead of Amundson do you think that SL might have a chance to be a bit more successful? My guess is that they'd have a chance to be more successful in executing this very same offense and it would make the bench deeper. In fact there are a lot of FA's who would be a vast improvement starting for this team. That's what Phil is looking at.

Ok here's where we are definitely not on the same page. If you are my coach, and you tell me to protect the paint and not worry about perimeter shooters, it doesnt matter how good of a defender i am, my coach told me to not worry about guarding players who take 3's.

Calderon, larkin, Amare, jason, these are PnR players who made their living doing it, so instead of him putting them in that position to succeed, he's hell bent on sticking to the triangle like it or not,and if you don't like it, then bye bye ( see jr and shump).

Every single player in the league is capable of playing in the triangle to some degree, but at some point you have to ask yourself, Phil has like 9 championships running that system, and not one single team ran it since.

The Spurs won last yr, and every other team wants to play like that, in fact, the hawks mirror the spurs right now, as well as the GSW. You know why they don't run it, they don't have MJ, kobe or shaq, or even a top notch defender like pipen, who was capable of guarding 4 positions.

But here is my biggest issue with fish, he refuse to let a 10 man rotation build and mesh, every signal player on earth knows you can get comfortable playing sporadic minutes.

so whats going to happen next yr when phil brings in 13 new players, there going to spend 4 months figuring out a rotation. How can you kill woodson for having that dopey rotation, then give fisher a major v.i.p pass