Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:the NY media is hard on losers and right now, unfortunately, Phil is a big loser.

If he Wins, he will be treated like Eli Manning or Mark Messier or Derek Jeter

Bingo

It doesn't always work that way. The NY Media is both fickle and bloated. Fickle meaning that they want to be treated like Prima Donnas and Bloated meaning that their are just so many of them and so much competition for headlines, that they are all constantly looking for good/bad angles and continue to publish nonsense even when a story is long dead.

The media has been pretty harsh on Eli Manning - even though he has helmed 2 titles

They always loved Messier - even though he only delivered one title

They have treated Jeter mostly with respect/admiration (not love) because he was a constant winner - but was relatively boring in interviews/soundbites

Just my guess - but Jackson will never be loved by the NY Media even if the Knicks win....they will still be chomping at the bit to cut him down.

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Yeah this is so stupid. Why doesnt Frank Isola or Mike Lupica tell us their plans for a championship this year?

There's a lot of space between us and a championship level team. That space is filled by every team in the league except Minnesota actually.

Good luck in closing that gap if you're only willing to give a gm 6 months, no cap space, no draft and a roster of players with zero value!

Who said that?

You keep posting as if you've given up on him or he's a disaster forever more- sorry if I've misunderstood your views, but you've been coming across as if you want him gone.

Yes, you've misunderstood what I've said. I evaluate decisions that have been made. I don't know what Phil will do in the future.

Perhaps context is not important to you....meaning you seem to be evaluating each move as an individual entity as if they were Jackson's final move. Although we do not know for sure what Phil will do in the future, it certainly has to be recognized that there is a large amount of Cap space to work with and a seemingly Top 5/6 Draft pick on the near horizon.

The book's not finished, so why be harsh on Chapters 1 & 2? How bout we see how it continues to play out? For instance, saying they guy hand-picked 80% of this roster seems shallow when an intuitive person would strongly suspect that 80% of this current roster (players and/or roles of current players) will change in the next 1-2 years.

foosballnick wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Yeah this is so stupid. Why doesnt Frank Isola or Mike Lupica tell us their plans for a championship this year?

There's a lot of space between us and a championship level team. That space is filled by every team in the league except Minnesota actually.

Good luck in closing that gap if you're only willing to give a gm 6 months, no cap space, no draft and a roster of players with zero value!

Who said that?

You keep posting as if you've given up on him or he's a disaster forever more- sorry if I've misunderstood your views, but you've been coming across as if you want him gone.

Yes, you've misunderstood what I've said. I evaluate decisions that have been made. I don't know what Phil will do in the future.

Perhaps context is not important to you....meaning you seem to be evaluating each move as an individual entity as if they were Jackson's final move. Although we do not know for sure what Phil will do in the future, it certainly has to be recognized that there is a large amount of Cap space to work with and a seemingly Top 5/6 Draft pick on the near horizon.

The book's not finished, so why be harsh on Chapters 1 & 2? How bout we see how it continues to play out? For instance, saying they guy hand-picked 80% of this roster seems shallow when an intuitive person would strongly suspect that 80% of this current roster (players and/or roles of current players) will change in the next 1-2 years.

because chapters 1 & 2 were so bad that even the author himself admitted they were failures. You're right that we have cap space coming up, but that has nothing to do with Phil. He actually tied up about 60% of the cap with the remnants of this .200 team for next year.

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Yeah this is so stupid. Why doesnt Frank Isola or Mike Lupica tell us their plans for a championship this year?

There's a lot of space between us and a championship level team. That space is filled by every team in the league except Minnesota actually.

Good luck in closing that gap if you're only willing to give a gm 6 months, no cap space, no draft and a roster of players with zero value!

Who said that?

You keep posting as if you've given up on him or he's a disaster forever more- sorry if I've misunderstood your views, but you've been coming across as if you want him gone.

Yes, you've misunderstood what I've said. I evaluate decisions that have been made. I don't know what Phil will do in the future.

Perhaps context is not important to you....meaning you seem to be evaluating each move as an individual entity as if they were Jackson's final move. Although we do not know for sure what Phil will do in the future, it certainly has to be recognized that there is a large amount of Cap space to work with and a seemingly Top 5/6 Draft pick on the near horizon.

The book's not finished, so why be harsh on Chapters 1 & 2? How bout we see how it continues to play out? For instance, saying they guy hand-picked 80% of this roster seems shallow when an intuitive person would strongly suspect that 80% of this current roster (players and/or roles of current players) will change in the next 1-2 years.

because chapters 1 & 2 were so bad that even the author himself admitted they were failures. You're right that we have cap space coming up, but that has nothing to do with Phil. He actually tied up about 60% of the cap with the remnants of this .200 team for next year.

The cap balance is really not as bad as it's being touted. There's a very short list of realistic top tier, big money free agents who would consider coming to NY, so we're more likely to spread the remaining cap space out among cheaper 2nd tier FA's. Melo and Jose's cap hit isn't ideal, but it's not necessarily a hindrance to building a better roster. I would assume that Phil is going to be able to work with the cap space he can create this summer.

We already know that one source of talent will be the draft and hopefully Phil can hit a home run in that regard. After that it's really going to be about making smart decisions with the Free Agents most likely to be available. Not to mention that he can just hold on to cap space for 2016 if he doesn't get everything he wants this summer. The cap will also be increasing down the line so it's not really going to be an issue long term. This is not a 1 year rebuild and we have to stop looking at it that way. It's going to be an ongoing process even if a lot of change happens this summer.

We'll have almost the same problem signing 2nd-tier free agents as we would 1st-tier. With the cap space we have available we're still only talking about realistically adding two guys to this ****show. So add two 2nd-tier free agents, hopefully a good rookie who can hit the ground running, and a healthy Melo and we're at, what, .500? maybe next season.

gunsnewing wrote:

VCoug wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Yeah this is so stupid. Why doesnt Frank Isola or Mike Lupica tell us their plans for a championship this year?

There's a lot of space between us and a championship level team. That space is filled by every team in the league except Minnesota actually.

Good luck in closing that gap if you're only willing to give a gm 6 months, no cap space, no draft and a roster of players with zero value!

Who said that?

You keep posting as if you've given up on him or he's a disaster forever more- sorry if I've misunderstood your views, but you've been coming across as if you want him gone.

Yes, you've misunderstood what I've said. I evaluate decisions that have been made. I don't know what Phil will do in the future.

Perhaps context is not important to you....meaning you seem to be evaluating each move as an individual entity as if they were Jackson's final move. Although we do not know for sure what Phil will do in the future, it certainly has to be recognized that there is a large amount of Cap space to work with and a seemingly Top 5/6 Draft pick on the near horizon.

The book's not finished, so why be harsh on Chapters 1 & 2? How bout we see how it continues to play out? For instance, saying they guy hand-picked 80% of this roster seems shallow when an intuitive person would strongly suspect that 80% of this current roster (players and/or roles of current players) will change in the next 1-2 years.

because chapters 1 & 2 were so bad that even the author himself admitted they were failures. You're right that we have cap space coming up, but that has nothing to do with Phil. He actually tied up about 60% of the cap with the remnants of this .200 team for next year.

The cap balance is really not as bad as it's being touted. There's a very short list of realistic top tier, big money free agents who would consider coming to NY, so we're more likely to spread the remaining cap space out among cheaper 2nd tier FA's. Melo and Jose's cap hit isn't ideal, but it's not necessarily a hindrance to building a better roster. I would assume that Phil is going to be able to work with the cap space he can create this summer.

We already know that one source of talent will be the draft and hopefully Phil can hit a home run in that regard. After that it's really going to be about making smart decisions with the Free Agents most likely to be available. Not to mention that he can just hold on to cap space for 2016 if he doesn't get everything he wants this summer. The cap will also be increasing down the line so it's not really going to be an issue long term. This is not a 1 year rebuild and we have to stop looking at it that way. It's going to be an ongoing process even if a lot of change happens this summer.

We'll have almost the same problem signing 2nd-tier free agents as we would 1st-tier. With the cap space we have available we're still only talking about realistically adding two guys to this ****show. So add two 2nd-tier free agents, hopefully a good rookie who can hit the ground running, and a healthy Melo and we're at, what, .500? maybe next season.

Maybe but the East is incredibly weak. If the playoffs alignment stays the same getting deep in the playoffs in the East is certainly doable

We'd almost certainly be way behind Atlanta, Toronto, Cleveland, etc. That team has no chance of getting out of the 2nd round and probably doesn't make it out of the 1st. And that's with everything going right this Summer.

More important than the idea of just adding better talent is the kind of players we add. We have serious needs and Defense is one area that must be addressed as well as the ability to get to the rim and more reliable 3pt shooting. Those needs can be addressed this summer. With every good player we add it impacts the team exponentially. It allows Role players to be more effective doing what they do best.

Gunsnewing makes a good point about player movement this summer. Not every player is going to stay with the team they're on. There will be a lot of shifting by teams that don't get to the Conference Finals much less the NBA finals and that is a lot of teams and a lot of players. There are a LOT of free agents this summer and teams will be looking to improve or clear some cap. Deals can be made as well. It's going to be very interesting to see what Phil decides to do. Who will we draft and who will he go after 1st in FA.

foosballnick wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Yeah this is so stupid. Why doesnt Frank Isola or Mike Lupica tell us their plans for a championship this year?

There's a lot of space between us and a championship level team. That space is filled by every team in the league except Minnesota actually.

Good luck in closing that gap if you're only willing to give a gm 6 months, no cap space, no draft and a roster of players with zero value!

Who said that?

You keep posting as if you've given up on him or he's a disaster forever more- sorry if I've misunderstood your views, but you've been coming across as if you want him gone.

Yes, you've misunderstood what I've said. I evaluate decisions that have been made. I don't know what Phil will do in the future.

Perhaps context is not important to you....meaning you seem to be evaluating each move as an individual entity as if they were Jackson's final move. Although we do not know for sure what Phil will do in the future, it certainly has to be recognized that there is a large amount of Cap space to work with and a seemingly Top 5/6 Draft pick on the near horizon.

The book's not finished, so why be harsh on Chapters 1 & 2? How bout we see how it continues to play out? For instance, saying they guy hand-picked 80% of this roster seems shallow when an intuitive person would strongly suspect that 80% of this current roster (players and/or roles of current players) will change in the next 1-2 years.

because chapters 1 & 2 were so bad that even the author himself admitted they were failures. You're right that we have cap space coming up, but that has nothing to do with Phil. He actually tied up about 60% of the cap with the remnants of this .200 team for next year.

Yes - Phil indicated that he failed in his initial plan to supplement the previous roster.

I never indicated that Phil was responsible for freeing up the cap space.

Regarding Cap space, I'm unclear where you are getting your 60% figure from? Phil resigned Melo, he traded for Calderon and he drafted Early and he traded away JR Smith - the additions and subtraction of JR Smith nets to approximately $25 Million of combined cap space next year....the cap is projected to be at $63 Million (plus). This means that Phil tied up 40% of the salary cap for next year.....not the 60% you indicated.

Regarding the Knicks winning percentage - you've been posting that the team last year was a .500 team....it was not....as at 37-45 it was actually closer to a .400 team. Further, you've also stated (I'll paraphrase) in the past that the previous several years rosters were "flawed". If Phil initially tried to build on last year (signing Melo and making Tyson trade), and failed.....and then decided since his plan failed, to strip it down to a .200 losing team....what does it matter to you as long as the moves after the strip down are ones to start to re-assemble the foundation. The only post tank move the Knicks have made committing to next year has been Galloway - who is on a team option in 2015/16 and might be a find as a cost efficient back-up PG. It's true that there is a long way to go with the roster, but if the team performs at .500 next year and has a nice (younger) core in with or without the pre-tank holdovers (Melo & Calderon) - it will be a positive turn IMO.

I don't know where your getting your numbers from but shamsports and hoopshype both say that Melo and Calderon make a combined $30M next year; that's nearly 50% of the cap and doesn't include a bunch of players that will probably still be on the team next year.

Here's the problem. Phil didn't make moves, see they didn't work out, and then strip it down to turn us into a .200 team. The moves he made to improve the team turned us into a .200 team. It takes a special kind of incompetence to try to improve a .451 team to a .500 team and end up with the worst team in franchise history.

VCoug wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Yeah this is so stupid. Why doesnt Frank Isola or Mike Lupica tell us their plans for a championship this year?

There's a lot of space between us and a championship level team. That space is filled by every team in the league except Minnesota actually.

Good luck in closing that gap if you're only willing to give a gm 6 months, no cap space, no draft and a roster of players with zero value!

Who said that?

You keep posting as if you've given up on him or he's a disaster forever more- sorry if I've misunderstood your views, but you've been coming across as if you want him gone.

Yes, you've misunderstood what I've said. I evaluate decisions that have been made. I don't know what Phil will do in the future.

Perhaps context is not important to you....meaning you seem to be evaluating each move as an individual entity as if they were Jackson's final move. Although we do not know for sure what Phil will do in the future, it certainly has to be recognized that there is a large amount of Cap space to work with and a seemingly Top 5/6 Draft pick on the near horizon.

The book's not finished, so why be harsh on Chapters 1 & 2? How bout we see how it continues to play out? For instance, saying they guy hand-picked 80% of this roster seems shallow when an intuitive person would strongly suspect that 80% of this current roster (players and/or roles of current players) will change in the next 1-2 years.

because chapters 1 & 2 were so bad that even the author himself admitted they were failures. You're right that we have cap space coming up, but that has nothing to do with Phil. He actually tied up about 60% of the cap with the remnants of this .200 team for next year.

Yes - Phil indicated that he failed in his initial plan to supplement the previous roster.

I never indicated that Phil was responsible for freeing up the cap space.

Regarding Cap space, I'm unclear where you are getting your 60% figure from? Phil resigned Melo, he traded for Calderon and he drafted Early and he traded away JR Smith - the additions and subtraction of JR Smith nets to approximately $25 Million of combined cap space next year....the cap is projected to be at $63 Million (plus). This means that Phil tied up 40% of the salary cap for next year.....not the 60% you indicated.

Regarding the Knicks winning percentage - you've been posting that the team last year was a .500 team....it was not....as at 37-45 it was actually closer to a .400 team. Further, you've also stated (I'll paraphrase) in the past that the previous several years rosters were "flawed". If Phil initially tried to build on last year (signing Melo and making Tyson trade), and failed.....and then decided since his plan failed, to strip it down to a .200 losing team....what does it matter to you as long as the moves after the strip down are ones to start to re-assemble the foundation. The only post tank move the Knicks have made committing to next year has been Galloway - who is on a team option in 2015/16 and might be a find as a cost efficient back-up PG. It's true that there is a long way to go with the roster, but if the team performs at .500 next year and has a nice (younger) core in with or without the pre-tank holdovers (Melo & Calderon) - it will be a positive turn IMO.

I don't know where your getting your numbers from but shamsports and hoopshype both say that Melo and Calderon make a combined $30M next year; that's nearly 50% of the cap and doesn't include a bunch of players that will probably still be on the team next year.

Here's the problem. Phil didn't make moves, see they didn't work out, and then strip it down to turn us into a .200 team. The moves he made to improve the team turned us into a .200 team. It takes a special kind of incompetence to try to improve a .451 team to a .500 team and end up with the worst team in franchise history.

VCoug wrote:Here's the problem. Phil didn't make moves, see they didn't work out, and then strip it down to turn us into a .200 team. The moves he made to improve the team turned us into a .200 team. It takes a special kind of incompetence to try to improve a .451 team to a .500 team and end up with the worst team in franchise history.

I wouldn't have it any other way. Would you rather have kept Chandler, Felton, Shump, JR, with healthy Bargs and gotten to .500 and had a 1-and-done playoff experience followed by the 15-17 pick in the draft? To what end? For me this was the best scenario that could have happened outside of extracting more from those trades. Got to cash in on a high pick.

martin wrote:

VCoug wrote:Here's the problem. Phil didn't make moves, see they didn't work out, and then strip it down to turn us into a .200 team. The moves he made to improve the team turned us into a .200 team. It takes a special kind of incompetence to try to improve a .451 team to a .500 team and end up with the worst team in franchise history.

I wouldn't have it any other way. Would you rather have kept Chandler, Felton, Shump, JR, with healthy Bargs and gotten to .500 and had a 1-and-done playoff experience followed by the 15-17 pick in the draft? To what end? For me this was the best scenario that could have happened outside of extracting more from those trades. Got to cash in on a high pick.

Doesn't mean I'm on board with everything they say, but I understand that NY is a "what have you done for me lately?" kind of town.

I keep hearing about all these wonderful trades we could have made for Chandler as if GMs didnt know about Flu Tyson. As good as Tyson was in a 2-3 year stretch, the rest of his career had been unremarkable. Tyson looked like he was back to that part of his career, injuries or not, so its not surprising that Jackson couldn't sell high.