The more I think about it the more I really want dragic and Wesley Mathews on the Knicks. Their strengths are taking what the defense gives them shooting high percentages and making good decisions. Add that to Melo and okafor and we have a fantastic 4. We would then need to find some dirt work guys to fill in at the 4 spot. Seraphin from Washington?

Seraphin, Melo, Okafor, dragic and Wesley Mathews looks damn good on paper

---------------------------FG% 3pt% TS% A RB S TO USG WS/48
Player A---------------- .516 .348 .586 4.1 3.7 1.0 2.1 21.8 .138

Player B---------------- .435 .367 .541 4.5 2.7 1.1 2.3 20.6 .050

Player C---------------- .403 .398 .537 3.3 4.6 1.3 1.4 16.9 .141

Player D---------------- .517 .324 .570 3.1 3.0 0.8 1.1 17.3 .148

Player E---------------- .447 .400 .568 5.1 4.2 1.6 3.4 27.1 .129

Player F---------------- .431 .288 .513 4.7 4.2 0.8 2.1 23.6 .107

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:Wow..Two consecutive post with no mention of U know who..

well i am addressing what it will take for the knicks to become an actual winning team, ie making it to the conference finals and beyond. that will require making u know who something of an afterthought since he's only breathed that rarified air once in 12 years, and probably 14 years unless the knicks defy the odds and become incredibly lucky.

you need a core-- starting caliber-- that is comprised of two-way players.

i like travis wear, who is a two-way player... but not starting caliber. maybe cleanthony early and thanasis are in the same boat, and that's an okay start.

as to beverley, he is a borderline starter who happens to be a two-way player. worthwhile acquiring in my book, and i repeat a better value here in new york than dragic, although in a vacuum i think dragic is terrific and a better basketball player than patrick beverley.

Dragic is a two way player?

no, he is not. when i use the qualifier "in a vacuum" i guess that was not conveyed. but in this specific context beverley is the better FIT even if i think dragic is the better player overall.

and what i mean by overall is that dragic is more of a positive-sum player in most situations than beverley. that is, he provides more offense for himself and others than he gives up on defense.

that said, money would be wasted on dragic because his skills would be squandered here in new york, whereas, again, all of beverley's skills would be fully exploited. he's a better return on investment and that is what you want when trying to build a contender.

I don't know about Beverly. I am kind of luke warm on him. I have watched him play a lot recently and I did not really come away too impressed with his decision making.

And as far as Dragic, maybe he does turn into Calderon here but I think that what he does extremely well is finish around the rim. He is one of the best in the league at that so as far as all the back door cuts, he would be able to capitalize. I still would not want to overpay him.

What skills of Dragic would be squandered here? He's a great fit

TPercy wrote:

fishmike wrote:

TPercy wrote:Dragic will suck in the triangle, he plays fast dynamic basketball and like holfresh says is a ball dominant pg which is the opposite of what Phil would want. Unless we ditch the triangle or tailor it, no chance of Phil trying to get him. I want him here a lot, he was very entertaining to watch and played a big part in phx successful season. I was very pissed when he was not an all star last year.

what is it about the triangle that isnt suited for Dragic?

I think people look at the PGs of Phil's title teams and assume thats the mold. Those teams had superstar SGs who didnt need dynamic floor generals. Because they facilitated so much (both Kobe are MJ are 5+ assist guys) what did they need at PG? A guy who could defend and shoot. Thats just BB, not so much triangle. If you have MJ and Kobe why would you have a PG that dominates the ball?

Sorry it may be my lack of comprehension but what is the main point of what you are trying to say (Not insulting you or anything just don't understand.)

The reason Phil's teams were PG lite or had role players is those teams had star SGs that controlled the ball. Dig?

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Let's play guess who. Here are some free agent PG stats.

---------------------------FG% 3pt% TS% A RB S TO USG WS/48
Player A---------------- .516 .348 .586 4.1 3.7 1.0 2.1 21.8 .138

Player B---------------- .435 .367 .541 4.5 2.7 1.1 2.3 20.6 .050

Player C---------------- .403 .398 .537 3.3 4.6 1.3 1.4 16.9 .141

Player D---------------- .517 .324 .570 3.1 3.0 0.8 1.1 17.3 .148

Player E---------------- .447 .400 .568 5.1 4.2 1.6 3.4 27.1 .129

Player F---------------- .431 .288 .513 4.7 4.2 0.8 2.1 23.6 .107

I know at least 4

Jackson, Brandon, Dragic, Beverly

A=Dragic
B=Linsanity
C=Beverly
D=Corey Joseph (nice)
E=Knight
F=RJax

Fail=Rondo TS=42.5 and his WS48 is .027 - OUCH! Before we may have signed this idiot

4/6 for F% and Einman nailed it.

Joseph is only 24 and although he will be a rfa I think the Knicks should try to get him out of San Antonio and pick him over every other guard. He has some potential and will probably be the second lowest paid PG out of the ones listed. I think he can be had for $8M. That seems like a lot but if who would pay R. Jackson that type of money or if Lin was worth it a few years ago why not Joseph? Now the Spurs will have money but are they Willing to have $21M+ tied up in their PGs alone? Who knows maybe the knicks can get him at an even lower price because Patty Mills is back and he is a combo guard that is Parker's main back up.

What I also like about Joseph is his low usg. Looking back at most of Phil Jackson season as a coaching in Chi/LA is that his PGs usg are under 20%. Fisher, Paxon, Harper, and Armstrong were usually under 20% by a s fair margin. Also, none of his PGs ever had a high ast avg. I think the most one avg was 5.1 ast per game. SO while Dragic or Knight might look good his role would probably be restricted and paying someone the max or slightly under the max would be wasteful.

great call Yellow. How is his defense? I would imagine that its good if he gets PT is SA.

Would POP match? Is he the PG in waiting for when Parker retires?

This is exactly the kind of find that we need. A low usage highly efficient hidden Gem.

His 3 point % could be better but he makes up for it in other areas.

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Let's play guess who. Here are some free agent PG stats.

---------------------------FG% 3pt% TS% A RB S TO USG WS/48
Player A---------------- .516 .348 .586 4.1 3.7 1.0 2.1 21.8 .138

Player B---------------- .435 .367 .541 4.5 2.7 1.1 2.3 20.6 .050

Player C---------------- .403 .398 .537 3.3 4.6 1.3 1.4 16.9 .141

Player D---------------- .517 .324 .570 3.1 3.0 0.8 1.1 17.3 .148

Player E---------------- .447 .400 .568 5.1 4.2 1.6 3.4 27.1 .129

Player F---------------- .431 .288 .513 4.7 4.2 0.8 2.1 23.6 .107

I know at least 4

Jackson, Brandon, Dragic, Beverly

A=Dragic
B=Linsanity
C=Beverly
D=Corey Joseph (nice)
E=Knight
F=RJax

Fail=Rondo TS=42.5 and his WS48 is .027 - OUCH! Before we may have signed this idiot

4/6 for F% and Einman nailed it.

Joseph is only 24 and although he will be a rfa I think the Knicks should try to get him out of San Antonio and pick him over every other guard. He has some potential and will probably be the second lowest paid PG out of the ones listed. I think he can be had for $8M. That seems like a lot but if who would pay R. Jackson that type of money or if Lin was worth it a few years ago why not Joseph? Now the Spurs will have money but are they Willing to have $21M+ tied up in their PGs alone? Who knows maybe the knicks can get him at an even lower price because Patty Mills is back and he is a combo guard that is Parker's main back up.

What I also like about Joseph is his low usg. Looking back at most of Phil Jackson season as a coaching in Chi/LA is that his PGs usg are under 20%. Fisher, Paxon, Harper, and Armstrong were usually under 20% by a s fair margin. Also, none of his PGs ever had a high ast avg. I think the most one avg was 5.1 ast per game. SO while Dragic or Knight might look good his role would probably be restricted and paying someone the max or slightly under the max would be wasteful.

great call Yellow. How is his defense? I would imagine that its good if he gets PT is SA.

Would POP match? Is he the PG in waiting for when Parker retires?

This is exactly the kind of find that we need. A low usage highly efficient hidden Gem.

His 3 point % could be better but he makes up for it in other areas.

It's a work in progress but okay. He has lapses but is improving. I have no idea if they will match. They have the room but Parker has 3 yrs left on his deal at $13.4m, $14.4m, and $15.4m. It also seems that Patty Mills is ahead of him on the depth chart. He is more of a gunner than an ast man but he gets the job done. He is only making $3.2m each of the next two years. So if they do match that is a lot of money tied up.

I want Joseph and Green. Green might actually be a better defender than Matthews. People seem to forget that he had to guard Durant, Wade, and Lebron quite a bit in the playoffs plus he has stepped up in the big moments offensively too. I'll say it again, the knicks could possibly overpay on Green and give him less money than Matthews while possibly getting the better player.

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Let's play guess who. Here are some free agent PG stats.

---------------------------FG% 3pt% TS% A RB S TO USG WS/48
Player A---------------- .516 .348 .586 4.1 3.7 1.0 2.1 21.8 .138

Player B---------------- .435 .367 .541 4.5 2.7 1.1 2.3 20.6 .050

Player C---------------- .403 .398 .537 3.3 4.6 1.3 1.4 16.9 .141

Player D---------------- .517 .324 .570 3.1 3.0 0.8 1.1 17.3 .148

Player E---------------- .447 .400 .568 5.1 4.2 1.6 3.4 27.1 .129

Player F---------------- .431 .288 .513 4.7 4.2 0.8 2.1 23.6 .107

I know at least 4

Jackson, Brandon, Dragic, Beverly

A=Dragic
B=Linsanity
C=Beverly
D=Corey Joseph (nice)
E=Knight
F=RJax

Fail=Rondo TS=42.5 and his WS48 is .027 - OUCH! Before we may have signed this idiot

4/6 for F% and Einman nailed it.

Joseph is only 24 and although he will be a rfa I think the Knicks should try to get him out of San Antonio and pick him over every other guard. He has some potential and will probably be the second lowest paid PG out of the ones listed. I think he can be had for $8M. That seems like a lot but if who would pay R. Jackson that type of money or if Lin was worth it a few years ago why not Joseph? Now the Spurs will have money but are they Willing to have $21M+ tied up in their PGs alone? Who knows maybe the knicks can get him at an even lower price because Patty Mills is back and he is a combo guard that is Parker's main back up.

What I also like about Joseph is his low usg. Looking back at most of Phil Jackson season as a coaching in Chi/LA is that his PGs usg are under 20%. Fisher, Paxon, Harper, and Armstrong were usually under 20% by a s fair margin. Also, none of his PGs ever had a high ast avg. I think the most one avg was 5.1 ast per game. SO while Dragic or Knight might look good his role would probably be restricted and paying someone the max or slightly under the max would be wasteful.

great call Yellow. How is his defense? I would imagine that its good if he gets PT is SA.

Would POP match? Is he the PG in waiting for when Parker retires?

This is exactly the kind of find that we need. A low usage highly efficient hidden Gem.

His 3 point % could be better but he makes up for it in other areas.

It's a work in progress but okay. He has lapses but is improving. I have no idea if they will match. They have the room but Parker has 3 yrs left on his deal at $13.4m, $14.4m, and $15.4m. It also seems that Patty Mills is ahead of him on the depth chart. He is more of a gunner than an ast man but he gets the job done. He is only making $3.2m each of the next two years. So if they do match that is a lot of money tied up.

I want Joseph and Green. Green might actually be a better defender than Matthews. People seem to forget that he had to guard Durant, Wade, and Lebron quite a bit in the playoffs plus he has stepped up in the big moments offensively too. I'll say it again, the knicks could possibly overpay on Green and give him less money than Matthews while possibly getting the better player.

I cannot see POP letting Green go. Way to valuable.

I have a feeling that WES will be cheaper than we think. The market has never really valued him where he belongs.

and

Draymond Green

+ Thanasis and our #1 pick would be a GREAT defensive and versatile team moving forward, with multiple players that could handle the ball and POST up to initate the OFFENSE
Shooting is a skill that can be tought, the combination of length/versatility/work ethic/team work/rebounds/steals+block/DEFENSE, is just too much to pass up
Kawaii is living prove of that, who was the MVP last season, and will have many more MVP seasons moving forward

If we are able to trade CA for one of those SG's or whatever, it would be a GREAT move moving forward
Grab players that are YOUNG and offer all the skills and smarts that money can buy, they will make the young guys develop at a higher level and faster, while challenging them improve both on and off the court
It would be "THEIR TEAM" and as YOUNG players, they have a chance to market themsevles and make even more money, with a player option after the new CBA to opt out, so 1year of guaranteed money doesn't mean anything to them

So basically grab high IQ, teams in successfull teams that can teach our players how to play on both ends

So players in

GS
Spurs
Atlanta

some of which could be role players that do not even play much like

Draymond Green
Holiday/Brandon Rush

Kawaii/Danny Green
Aron Baynes/Marco Belinelli/Jospeh

Millsap/DeMarre Carroll
Pero Antic/John Jenkins

If we want to play smart, cohesive, establish a winning culture, etc, then we get multiple players from systems that already know how to go about it
They are targetted to bring leadership, teach fundaments of the game, communication, and help speed the development of our guys guys both on and off the court

Houston vs GS (home)

Final regular season game today, blowout in the last 2, won by 11 the first time, with multiple injuries on GS in first 2 games
Will it be a sweep?

Think it is a ESPN game, Briggs and other posters watch how GS plays, they are the real deal
Pay attention on how they defend, play as a team, move without the ball, space the floor, how they get open, screens used etc...