Splat wrote:Those of you whom I've enjoyed bantering with and having some laughs, be well and have a good year. There's no point mucking with this mess or engaging in low grade debates. Stopping this cold turkey. Not going to do game threads for yucks any longer. As long as Melo is on this team, I'm off the radar. Knuckledraggers like Fishmike may now officially rejoice. I've deleted bookmarks to this site so I can't click my way back. Be well, Splat!

It's been real. Some of us have been there before. My suggestion is don't leave. Take a few days or weeks, if need be off and then jump back in when things become more bearable.

If you return try not to fall into personal traps even if you didn't initiate the getting personal business. Make your points. It doesn't matter that others disagree. Try for healthy discussion. When the conversation heads south let it go. Ignore or whatever need be.
Let the knicks season play out a little longer.

You came in with great enthusiasm and good intentions. A much needed burst of energy to what was going to be and ended up being a tumultuous season and more stale arguments. Arguments which will continue until Melo is gone. I enjoyed the humor and bantering back and forth in the game threads and such. It's a lot more fun to follow a knicks game with like minded Knick fans. Much more fun than arguing in circles.

So hoping you take my suggestion. If not then I will certainly respect your choice. Be well!

Splat wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Splat wrote:The argumentation skills on this forum are largely nonexistent. So many lack the basic intellectual skills to distinguish terminology in order to have a debate.

A prime fallacy demonstrated here over and over again showing an utter lack of self-awareness is attacking criticism as emotionalism and missing the irony of making such an emotional response. It is not debating.

If I want to watch hamsters in a cage gnawing on their knuckles, I can go to a pet store for that.

The real sourpusses are all of these incompetent debaters. They rarely come back with counter-arguments, but lots of default loyalties to large corporations over dissenting viewpoints. I've seen the brainwashed masses and they can be found on sports forums.

The world has not advanced much. Medieval minds pickled in digital ether is mostly what I see here.

The problem with your statements (see below) is that you are offering up subjective opinions as if they are facts. For instance, please provide examples of how any of what you stated below is measurable. Most of us with "Intelligence" are able to see right through this type of post as relatively meaningless propaganda. You appear to be trying too hard to "debate" other posters (who do not agree with your opinion)......... off this board. No one cares if you are a "Good Debater" or not. Most here are Knick fans and here to read about and discuss the Knicks. You seem to have many bad things to say about this board and other posters....so why stay if just to complain about it?

Splat wrote:
Just like my opinions on Melo were once on the fringe and are now becoming a consensus, I guarantee you in the future most fans will agree that Phil:
1) cashed in on his reputation;
2) accepted compromises from Dolan that sabotaged his chances of success in order to get that $60M;
3) thought his chit doesn't stink;
4) was living in the past;
5) chose loyalty over effectiveness; and
6) wasn't equipped and didn't equip himself with the right staff to be the GM and do a rebuild.
Phil Jackson is outmanned and outgunned and he will fail because of his hubris and greed.
I know many can't deal with the truth yet, but they will. The truth is there for anyone to see it. This is a failed organization continuing to fail.
None of this is Fish's fault really, whether he is a good coach or not. This is Phil's mess.

You come here and prattle on about negativity when your only objective is to attack posters. You haven't contributed any thoughts on the Knicks at all.

That you launched into this attack without basic comprehension of what I posted is evident. If you actually were thoughtful about this, you would realize I stated very clearly that list was my "Opinion".

That my opinions on Melo have been embraced by a growing group of people is not because I'm smarter. It is because I'm not resistant to reality. I'm not a slave to corporate sports loyalist brainwashing.

Many are afraid to come to strong conclusions because they don't have full access to the facts about what goes on behind closed doors. They then attack those who do because that is their default mindset to defend the status quo.

Guys like you are either permanently stuck in the past or take years to catch up to reality. I'm a guy who tells it like it is in real time.

You want to defend this board? Then post something useful instead of focusing on me. Otherwise, you're just another boring attacker without counter-arguments.

I know some of you actually think your "Helping" but thinking PHil is an old man not capable and Fish is incapable is funny. I know y'all wanted a young guy who was part of a decent turnaround and young coach who is an up and comer. What you got instead is a 70 year old guy that is a deep thinking, likely finacially set, and very ver set in his ways. He is the all time winningest coach.

I know some of you think "well by being all REAL" I am helping". Your not at all. Your not hurting either. You, like me are insignificant in the realm.

What some of you are doing is hurting the UK by being redundantly boring and lose cred when calling some players names.

there are some fans that like melo and want to see him play. If you don't agree with thats fine, but its like your taking it personal.

Nalod has read Phils books. Nalod DOes not know the plan, Nalod does not contingent deductive reasoning that Phil, the scouts, Mark Warkenten or John Gabriel are planning. I don't know any back room channeling between agents and players nor what our draft pick will be.

These are the pieces that matter the most. I just know the buisness of media that does very well selling anger to those impressionable to it.

I sure as hell know the "Hate of Eight" that like a virus infect most conversations have no clue.

gunsnewing wrote:

Splat wrote:Those of you whom I've enjoyed bantering with and having some laughs, be well and have a good year. There's no point mucking with this mess or engaging in low grade debates. Stopping this cold turkey. Not going to do game threads for yucks any longer. As long as Melo is on this team, I'm off the radar. Knuckledraggers like Fishmike may now officially rejoice. I've deleted bookmarks to this site so I can't click my way back. Be well, Splat!

It's been real. Some of us have been there before. My suggestion is don't leave. Take a few days or weeks, if need be off and then jump back in when things become more bearable.

If you return try not to fall into personal traps even if you didn't initiate the getting personal business. Make your points. It doesn't matter that others disagree. Try for healthy discussion. When the conversation heads south let it go. Ignore or whatever need be.
Let the knicks season play out a little longer.

You came in with great enthusiasm and good intentions. A much needed burst of energy to what was going to be and ended up being a tumultuous season and more stale arguments. Arguments which will continue until Melo is gone. I enjoyed the humor and bantering back and forth in the game threads and such. It's a lot more fun to follow a knicks game with like minded Knick fans. Much more fun than arguing in circles.

So hoping you take my suggestion. If not then I will certainly respect your choice. Be well!

Also if he needs a bigger apartment is be more than happy to see he's name on the waiting list gets pushed to the top

Splat wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

Splat wrote:Those of you whom I've enjoyed bantering with and having some laughs, be well and have a good year. There's no point mucking with this mess or engaging in low grade debates. Stopping this cold turkey. Not going to do game threads for yucks any longer. As long as Melo is on this team, I'm off the radar. Knuckledraggers like Fishmike may now officially rejoice. I've deleted bookmarks to this site so I can't click my way back. Be well, Splat!

They've defeated you if this is your course

But I understand your contributions will always

Be a framework to logical thinking

Make sure you stay put

I'm headed to the garage to rock out with you and DK

No defeat. I've said what I want to say. I consider leaving a victory for prioritizing more meaningful activities over posting here. This is pretty trivial stuff in the scheme of things and I really have better things to do. Take care

that's the point-- the knicks are, once again, IRRELEVANT.

you know you might consider using the ignore feature and continue the banter troll-free.

The Pipe dream is Gasol or Aldrige. If portland gets bounced, there is some potential for him to leave and elevate his star which is really lacking. But, doesn't strike me as a guy that wants nyc pressure.

But more realistically we need multiple pieces at lower prices. Robin Lopez at $7-9MM. Gerald Green potentially at $3-6MM million. Milshap will likely cost $15MM as will dragic. If we could make it happen dragic, shumpert, milshap, anthony, lopez wouldn't be a bad starting unit with smith and hardaway off the bench, to go with a lottery selection. would be a pretty balanced team.

fishmike wrote:

Splat wrote:Those of you whom I've enjoyed bantering with and having some laughs, be well and have a good year. There's no point mucking with this mess or engaging in low grade debates. Stopping this cold turkey. Not going to do game threads for yucks any longer. As long as Melo is on this team, I'm off the radar. Knuckledraggers like Fishmike may now officially rejoice. I've deleted bookmarks to this site so I can't click my way back. Be well, Splat!

so jamming your opinions down people's throats on the internet and passing them off as fact is a time suck. Who knew?

Imagine taking the time to research and build reason as to how you conclude an opinion!

Splat, like many others when asked nicely put the effort usually throw their hand up and leave.

To his credit, I didn't expect the melt down and for the most part enjoyed his takes until it reached "The Fringe".

Hey, good to leave on a good note! 5-30 is not easy for most fans.

BRIGGS wrote:Did you hear those fools chanting fire Fisher"

What the hll is Derek Fisher going to do--run on the court and play PG for the Knicks--heck we'd have two more wins. Do these people understand that

A. Losing helps us right now? You should be praising the man.

B. We really and I mean really sck--The NY Knicks have the WORST and I mean the WORST roster in the nBA and 2nd place is not close? If Phil Jackson were coaching this team would have 8 wins max.

C. If you cant accept the reality this year--just stay home--eat the tix and bring your wife to a show instead. Going to a NY Knicks game should be considered a masochistic act--if you are into that stuff.

With some of the dumb NYers it's simply fire him fir e her fire their dog. Shut the heck up and go stick your dumb arse in the sand. You can come out when we have pick #1 in June.

Thankyou.....I usually disagree with you but not this time.....I agree with you. Now Fisher doesn't get a pass. ...but the fire chants on fisher was simply a sign of fans that are losing credibility. I hope Phil is strong enough to hold his ground and not fall into the media or fan pressure. Like most GMs have done b4.

smackeddog wrote:

Splat wrote:

mreinman wrote:I think that this all went south when the man with the 124 keys said fuk you to the new board of erectors. "hell no, I ain't passing the damn ball ... geeeeeez you crazy, you guys be telling me, Melo, Carmelo, Da bomb to pass the damn ball ... you guys are trippin hehehehehe. crazy talk. Your move phil, pish, jimbo, shyt be crazy up heah"

Anyone with a managerial brain knew this would happen. All that garbage Phil blew up the public's crack about Melo upping his game to another level was cynical BS.

How can anyone with a straight face say Phil Jackson understands talent evaluation if he didn't already know Melo would go rogue and there was no chance of building a fluid, team oriented basketball culture with Melo as the core?

It's ludicrous.

Whether Phil acquiesced to Dolan's demand he re-sign Melo in order to get paid or he did it completely of his own volition doesn't really matter since he claims responsibility for this action.

Melo being Melo is all on Phil. He gave him the keys to drive this into a wall.

Yeah, Phil should have consulted you, you obviously know so much more than him about basketball and winning. To me Phil's biggest mistake was not signing Lebron in the offseason to a max contract. He should have then traded JR and Shump to the Spurs for Tim Duncan and Tony Parker and then bought the number 3 draft pick and drafted OK4 after convincing him to enter the draft a year early.

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Splat wrote:

mreinman wrote:I think that this all went south when the man with the 124 keys said fuk you to the new board of erectors. "hell no, I ain't passing the damn ball ... geeeeeez you crazy, you guys be telling me, Melo, Carmelo, Da bomb to pass the damn ball ... you guys are trippin hehehehehe. crazy talk. Your move phil, pish, jimbo, shyt be crazy up heah"

Anyone with a managerial brain knew this would happen. All that garbage Phil blew up the public's crack about Melo upping his game to another level was cynical BS.

How can anyone with a straight face say Phil Jackson understands talent evaluation if he didn't already know Melo would go rogue and there was no chance of building a fluid, team oriented basketball culture with Melo as the core?

It's ludicrous.

Whether Phil acquiesced to Dolan's demand he re-sign Melo in order to get paid or he did it completely of his own volition doesn't really matter since he claims responsibility for this action.

Melo being Melo is all on Phil. He gave him the keys to drive this into a wall.

Yeah, Phil should have consulted you, you obviously know so much more than him about basketball and winning. To me Phil's biggest mistake was not signing Lebron in the offseason to a max contract. He should have then traded JR and Shump to the Spurs for Tim Duncan and Tony Parker and then bought the number 3 draft pick and drafted OK4 after convincing him to enter the draft a year early.

If you're trying to use sarcasm to establish that Phil's decisions weren't really bad, I'd have to give you a low grade.

Its the fact he had so little to work with, but people are judging on him- he had zero cap space, the 1 year MMLE, and a roster of untradeable players, yet people are judging him if he had the moon.

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Splat wrote:

mreinman wrote:I think that this all went south when the man with the 124 keys said fuk you to the new board of erectors. "hell no, I ain't passing the damn ball ... geeeeeez you crazy, you guys be telling me, Melo, Carmelo, Da bomb to pass the damn ball ... you guys are trippin hehehehehe. crazy talk. Your move phil, pish, jimbo, shyt be crazy up heah"

Anyone with a managerial brain knew this would happen. All that garbage Phil blew up the public's crack about Melo upping his game to another level was cynical BS.

How can anyone with a straight face say Phil Jackson understands talent evaluation if he didn't already know Melo would go rogue and there was no chance of building a fluid, team oriented basketball culture with Melo as the core?

It's ludicrous.

Whether Phil acquiesced to Dolan's demand he re-sign Melo in order to get paid or he did it completely of his own volition doesn't really matter since he claims responsibility for this action.

Melo being Melo is all on Phil. He gave him the keys to drive this into a wall.

Yeah, Phil should have consulted you, you obviously know so much more than him about basketball and winning. To me Phil's biggest mistake was not signing Lebron in the offseason to a max contract. He should have then traded JR and Shump to the Spurs for Tim Duncan and Tony Parker and then bought the number 3 draft pick and drafted OK4 after convincing him to enter the draft a year early.

If you're trying to use sarcasm to establish that Phil's decisions weren't really bad, I'd have to give you a low grade.

Its the fact he had so little to work with, but people are judging on him- he had zero cap space, the 1 year MMLE, and a roster of untradeable players, yet people are judging him if he had the moon.

You might have a bad snowplow but you still shouldn't be throwing more snow on the road.
You're darn right we're judging him but these are still early judgments.

Its easy to blast him, because you critics with the power of hindsight act like you would have known better back then and that all of the moves which you would have done (which strangely you didn't share at the time) would have worked out great! You would have held on to Tyson and traded him for 6 first round picks, you would have traded Melo for Lebron, or let him walk, but then losing suddenly would have been okay. Share with us what you would have done differently- saying 'not sign Melo' and trading Tyson for a magic deal invented in your mind doesn't count.

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Splat wrote:

mreinman wrote:I think that this all went south when the man with the 124 keys said fuk you to the new board of erectors. "hell no, I ain't passing the damn ball ... geeeeeez you crazy, you guys be telling me, Melo, Carmelo, Da bomb to pass the damn ball ... you guys are trippin hehehehehe. crazy talk. Your move phil, pish, jimbo, shyt be crazy up heah"

Anyone with a managerial brain knew this would happen. All that garbage Phil blew up the public's crack about Melo upping his game to another level was cynical BS.

How can anyone with a straight face say Phil Jackson understands talent evaluation if he didn't already know Melo would go rogue and there was no chance of building a fluid, team oriented basketball culture with Melo as the core?

It's ludicrous.

Whether Phil acquiesced to Dolan's demand he re-sign Melo in order to get paid or he did it completely of his own volition doesn't really matter since he claims responsibility for this action.

Melo being Melo is all on Phil. He gave him the keys to drive this into a wall.

Yeah, Phil should have consulted you, you obviously know so much more than him about basketball and winning. To me Phil's biggest mistake was not signing Lebron in the offseason to a max contract. He should have then traded JR and Shump to the Spurs for Tim Duncan and Tony Parker and then bought the number 3 draft pick and drafted OK4 after convincing him to enter the draft a year early.

If you're trying to use sarcasm to establish that Phil's decisions weren't really bad, I'd have to give you a low grade.

Its the fact he had so little to work with, but people are judging on him- he had zero cap space, the 1 year MMLE, and a roster of untradeable players, yet people are judging him if he had the moon.

You might have a bad snowplow but you still shouldn't be throwing more snow on the road.
You're darn right we're judging him but these are still early judgments.

Its easy to blast him, because you critics with the power of hindsight act like you would have known better back then and that all of the moves which you would have done (which strangely you didn't share at the time) would have worked out great! You would have held on to Tyson and traded him for 6 first round picks, you would have traded Melo for Lebron, or let him walk, but then losing suddenly would have been okay. Share with us what you would have done differently- saying 'not sign Melo' and trading Tyson for a magic deal invented in your mind doesn't count.

I've done this a lot of times. I've posted a lot of Melo trades I would have done throughout the years, FAs that I thought were being undervalued and should be targeted, and the general approach I'd use to make decisions. I also at the time of the decisions made it clear I didn't think the Tyson trade or Melo signing was smart.

That's your stock response 'oh I said all that in various places'- give us a concrete plan.