Vmart wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Vmart wrote:It's a tank year. There is talent on the team, enough to make the playoffs as a 8th seed or miss it with 30 wins none of that really does good for the team. Take the losing with a grain of salt and move on. To place blame on anyone when the plan is being executed to near perfection is crazy. We shouldn't be looking to blame the players or coaches they are doing the necessary something that should have been done many years ago.

Vm art. While this was not "the original plan" it is now and we should be thankful and embrace it. This time do land stupidity worked out well for the fans

If this wasn't the plan I think they would have started to make moves after the first 15 games. I do believe the agenda is in and if it wasn't plan A then plan B is a very good move. I don't think the fans should get work up to much. Someone has to do this and we have always harped that to be the best in the NBA you have to lose before getting good. The quick fixes for playoffs are not going to work that method didn't yield anything for the Knicks.

I'm really liking the prospect of adding a top draft pick. Just imagine adding Ok4 in the draft then adding Dragic to go with him. And there is still room to play for other players. A trade here and there all do a sudden the prospects start looking better and better. There is something to be said about rock bottom you know there is only way to go and that is up. If the Knicks manage to get the worst record they may well walk away with top pick of the first round and the top pick of second round.

CrushAlot wrote:

Splat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Splat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:The offense would have to go through OK4 a lot. That is the triangle. Will Melo be ok with not having the ball in his hands every possession? Doubt it

Pipe dream alert, He's 18 yrs old, pays in a MDA type system and there is absolutely no telling how well in will translate into NBA player, right now he's not even starter material.

If this was a contending team, you would not have had to pay melo $124 mill, he would have sign for much less. Just think whats going to happen this summer, he's going to throw boat loads of $$$ for any sub par FA much, or max out Gasol and Monroe for their contact yr numbers.

It is merely desperation that drives people to say things like drafting OK4 + good FA signings = good team. Nobody knows how drafted players will pan out, but particularly very young ones who have not matured yet. OK4 is still basically a child in a man's body. For every Lebron, there are plenty of high school phenoms and 1 year college players who are considered sure things who are complete washouts in the NBA.

Plus, if you did draft a guy like OK4 and all he can do is score, then the fantasy of teaming him with Melo is already a failure of the imagination. Just throwing scorers together will produce one butt ugly team that will go nowhere in particular.

Literally EVERYTHING must go perfectly for this franchise to field a contender while Melo is still physically capable. Expecting perfect execution from one of the worst franchises in professional sports is asking for a whole lot.

100% agree,

At this point, I could never bank on FA and a draft to right the ship. I remember phil making it seem like he couldn't careless weather melo re-sign or not, "we would be fine" was his words, he also thought once he got melo on board, pau would be a mere phone call away, especially with calderon on ready on the squad.

But the way the GODS work around MSG, the knicks will go on some type of late season run, miss the playoffs by a game or 2, then be force to resign Bargi in Amare for 3 reasons

1)They fit well into what he's trying to build

2)You won't have nearly the options you thought you would have had

3)Trying to keep the core intact so you're not bringing in 9 new players and have to go through another identity crisis

Per bold above, that was Phil thinking his vulcan mind juju rules all planets and if he says it will work out either way, that was probably what the vanity of his prior success led him to believe. But it was mostly him thinking his mind games would work magic on Melo and that was phase one of re-inventing Melo in his image. Phil's god complex is not working out. He may not have much to fall back on.

Per underlined above, not having much to fall back on is related to his early insistence on build the Triangle Club at MSG. Wanting people he could trust is understandable, but he was hawking kool-aid and he had a limited pool of past drinkers to recruit from. He expended that quickly and ended up settling on Fisher.

Phil has already failed basically. The "Give It More Time" crowd will raise their puny fists to almighty yahweh and protest mightily, but the core premises of Phil's bamboozlement have come up shooting blanks.

The Triangle Theology is a robust failure. A book could be written on this failed premise, but the core failure is this: If you are going to blab about building a new culture around Triangles, then overpaying the anti-Triangle player says you're full of chit.

If you're going to build that culture and use the Triangle, then proceed as if you mean it. Instead, we were sold a pile of steaming chit and led on to believe there was an actual plan to execute on the promise.

Phil cashed in on his reputation because he found the one starphucker who would reward him: James Dolan.

And that is why this will fail.

Phil is no savior.

Only suckers believe that now.

This is getting annoying. The all things are hopeless because Melo was resigned talking points don't add anything to the forum.

Then don't reply if you have nothing intelligent to say.

I don't give a damn if you find it annoying.

I find it annoying that the premise of this franchise as it has been sold to the public in its present incarnation is a mountainous pile of steaming BS.

I find it annoying the Triangle Theology was used to dupe the public.

I find it annoying that they overpaid the anti-Triangular Melo which goes against the line of reasoning this BS team was sold as.

I find it annoying you are incapable of ever answering another poster's actual points and you ALWAYS DIVERGE into whatever direction your mood pulls you.

You post like you have ADD. You are incapable of debating and staying on point, so be annoyed. You can't focus, so being annoyed is your fall-back position.

Splat wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Splat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Splat wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:The offense would have to go through OK4 a lot. That is the triangle. Will Melo be ok with not having the ball in his hands every possession? Doubt it

Pipe dream alert, He's 18 yrs old, pays in a MDA type system and there is absolutely no telling how well in will translate into NBA player, right now he's not even starter material.

If this was a contending team, you would not have had to pay melo $124 mill, he would have sign for much less. Just think whats going to happen this summer, he's going to throw boat loads of $$$ for any sub par FA much, or max out Gasol and Monroe for their contact yr numbers.

It is merely desperation that drives people to say things like drafting OK4 + good FA signings = good team. Nobody knows how drafted players will pan out, but particularly very young ones who have not matured yet. OK4 is still basically a child in a man's body. For every Lebron, there are plenty of high school phenoms and 1 year college players who are considered sure things who are complete washouts in the NBA.

Plus, if you did draft a guy like OK4 and all he can do is score, then the fantasy of teaming him with Melo is already a failure of the imagination. Just throwing scorers together will produce one butt ugly team that will go nowhere in particular.

Literally EVERYTHING must go perfectly for this franchise to field a contender while Melo is still physically capable. Expecting perfect execution from one of the worst franchises in professional sports is asking for a whole lot.

100% agree,

At this point, I could never bank on FA and a draft to right the ship. I remember phil making it seem like he couldn't careless weather melo re-sign or not, "we would be fine" was his words, he also thought once he got melo on board, pau would be a mere phone call away, especially with calderon on ready on the squad.

But the way the GODS work around MSG, the knicks will go on some type of late season run, miss the playoffs by a game or 2, then be force to resign Bargi in Amare for 3 reasons

1)They fit well into what he's trying to build

2)You won't have nearly the options you thought you would have had

3)Trying to keep the core intact so you're not bringing in 9 new players and have to go through another identity crisis

Per bold above, that was Phil thinking his vulcan mind juju rules all planets and if he says it will work out either way, that was probably what the vanity of his prior success led him to believe. But it was mostly him thinking his mind games would work magic on Melo and that was phase one of re-inventing Melo in his image. Phil's god complex is not working out. He may not have much to fall back on.

Per underlined above, not having much to fall back on is related to his early insistence on build the Triangle Club at MSG. Wanting people he could trust is understandable, but he was hawking kool-aid and he had a limited pool of past drinkers to recruit from. He expended that quickly and ended up settling on Fisher.

Phil has already failed basically. The "Give It More Time" crowd will raise their puny fists to almighty yahweh and protest mightily, but the core premises of Phil's bamboozlement have come up shooting blanks.

The Triangle Theology is a robust failure. A book could be written on this failed premise, but the core failure is this: If you are going to blab about building a new culture around Triangles, then overpaying the anti-Triangle player says you're full of chit.

If you're going to build that culture and use the Triangle, then proceed as if you mean it. Instead, we were sold a pile of steaming chit and led on to believe there was an actual plan to execute on the promise.

Phil cashed in on his reputation because he found the one starphucker who would reward him: James Dolan.

And that is why this will fail.

Phil is no savior.

Only suckers believe that now.

This is getting annoying. The all things are hopeless because Melo was resigned talking points don't add anything to the forum.

Then don't reply if you have nothing intelligent to say.

I don't give a damn if you find it annoying.

I find it annoying that the premise of this franchise as it has been sold to the public in its present incarnation is a mountainous pile of steaming BS.

I find it annoying the Triangle Theology was used to dupe the public.

I find it annoying that they overpaid the anti-Triangular Melo which goes against the line of reasoning this BS team was sold as.

I find it annoying you are incapable of ever answering another poster's actual points and you ALWAYS DIVERGE into whatever direction your mood pulls you.

You post like you have ADD. You are incapable of debating and staying on point, so be annoyed. You can't focus, so being annoyed is your fall-back position.

Lets be real, you blame everything wrong with this franchise on MELO and his contract. I fully understand what phil is trying to do with melo, and he has had much more in depth conversations then you or I will ever have with MEO.

You judge melo by his cover, thats all you can do as a knick fan. I have met plenty of people in my life that I judged on the surface from what I have seen, but once i got to know them, sit down and talked to them in depth, my position changed (in most cases) on how I looked at them.

Phils plan is not working in any fashion or form, it's up to him regroup and go in another direction, or sit there like a idiot and try to fit circle's inside of a triangles. I thought that was a no brainer.

knicks1248 wrote:Lets be real, you blame everything wrong with this franchise on MELO and his contract. I fully understand what phil is trying to do with melo, and he has had much more in depth conversations then you or I will ever have with MEO.

You judge melo by his cover, thats all you can do as a knick fan. I have met plenty of people in my life that I judged on the surface from what I have seen, but once i got to know them, sit down and talked to them in depth, my position changed (in most cases) on how I looked at them.

Phils plan is not working in any fashion or form, it's up to him regroup and go in another direction, or sit there like a idiot and try to fit circle's inside of a triangles. I thought that was a no brainer.

Nothing can be done about that. Even my anti-Melo bias could easily be subsumed into a plan that accounts for his weaknesses and compensates accordingly. But we can't do that. Not with the amount of cap allocated to him. Not with practically nothing else to work with. Melo is necessarily the core problem. It is not an obsession when it is the unavoidable truth. It does now start and end with Melo. So dumping him, admitting failure and getting a cleaner slate to rebuild with would be wise. That's just the way it is. I wish I could focus on something else, but until the failure of building around Melo is conceded and the franchise moves past that mistake, the core problem of Melo remains. It is not something that can be minimized. It is the core issue.

P.S. The statement that I judge Melo by the cover is outlandish. Come on man. This is his fifth year here.

A benevelont god will show how to get it done. A savior is for those believing still in santa clause and the easter bunny!

F500 is telling us there is no Santa Claus and the "Clausarian Conspiracy" is made up!
With each loss the "See, told Ya Melo sucks", "see told ya the Triangle won't work", "see, Told ya Fish is not Kerr"......

Its easy conceptually to point out what is wrong, and conceptually say what could be better. Fact is, there is no accountability to it. So F500, your not really saying anything because you can't suggest a better way.
Rush Limbaugh makes a ton of money pointing what is wrong but has not tangable way to provide a fix, nor be accountable.

If Nix or others have a "faith in the process" so what if they do. Faith is defines as "an unsubstantiated belief". The followers of Jesus as the Messiah have no proof of his existance as dipicted. They choose to believe.

Nalod is the guy who bought you Mooby and dipicted the Melo loving Mooby as a guilible follower of a false god. So why do I defend? Im not, he is who he is. A top scoring Small Forward on a losing team. 5-26.

Question is can he be part of a winning team? Some have faith he can. Some don't. Fans are suffering but you revel in the righiousness of it all.

This is you after a loss and Melo is not able to carry further:

every subject comes back to "Melo this, Melo that......"

Nalod wrote:Phil is no savior, He is a god.

A benevelont god will show how to get it done. A savior is for those believing still in santa clause and the easter bunny!

F500 is telling us there is no Santa Claus and the "Clausarian Conspiracy" is made up!
With each loss the "See, told Ya Melo sucks", "see told ya the Triangle won't work", "see, Told ya Fish is not Kerr"......

Its easy conceptually to point out what is wrong, and conceptually say what could be better. Fact is, there is no accountability to it. So F500, your not really saying anything because you can't suggest a better way.
Rush Limbaugh makes a ton of money pointing what is wrong but has not tangable way to provide a fix, nor be accountable.

If Nix or others have a "faith in the process" so what if they do. Faith is defines as "an unsubstantiated belief". The followers of Jesus as the Messiah have no proof of his existance as dipicted. They choose to believe.

Nalod is the guy who bought you Mooby and dipicted the Melo loving Mooby as a guilible follower of a false god. So why do I defend? Im not, he is who he is. A top scoring Small Forward on a losing team. 5-26.

Question is can he be part of a winning team? Some have faith he can. Some don't. Fans are suffering but you revel in the righiousness of it all.

This is you after a loss and Melo is not able to carry further:

every subject comes back to "Melo this, Melo that......"

You're not a good poster. You are shrill which completely deflates your bogus principles. Your hysterical protests have gone on for weeks now rendering you a completely irrelevant thinker. For close to a week you referred to other posters as Circle Jerks. You cannot be taken seriously. Whatever qualities of thought you may possess have been consumed by your incessant need to shame other posters. It has made you boring and unreadable, thus I'm not reading you anymore. Ignored.

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:Phil is no savior, He is a god.

A benevelont god will show how to get it done. A savior is for those believing still in santa clause and the easter bunny!

F500 is telling us there is no Santa Claus and the "Clausarian Conspiracy" is made up!
With each loss the "See, told Ya Melo sucks", "see told ya the Triangle won't work", "see, Told ya Fish is not Kerr"......

Its easy conceptually to point out what is wrong, and conceptually say what could be better. Fact is, there is no accountability to it. So F500, your not really saying anything because you can't suggest a better way.
Rush Limbaugh makes a ton of money pointing what is wrong but has not tangable way to provide a fix, nor be accountable.

If Nix or others have a "faith in the process" so what if they do. Faith is defines as "an unsubstantiated belief". The followers of Jesus as the Messiah have no proof of his existance as dipicted. They choose to believe.

Nalod is the guy who bought you Mooby and dipicted the Melo loving Mooby as a guilible follower of a false god. So why do I defend? Im not, he is who he is. A top scoring Small Forward on a losing team. 5-26.

Question is can he be part of a winning team? Some have faith he can. Some don't. Fans are suffering but you revel in the righiousness of it all.

This is you after a loss and Melo is not able to carry further:

every subject comes back to "Melo this, Melo that......"

This. On a side note is that the kid that took Pee Wee's bike?

Nalod wrote:

Splat wrote:

Nalod wrote:Phil is no savior, He is a god.

A benevelont god will show how to get it done. A savior is for those believing still in santa clause and the easter bunny!

F500 is telling us there is no Santa Claus and the "Clausarian Conspiracy" is made up!
With each loss the "See, told Ya Melo sucks", "see told ya the Triangle won't work", "see, Told ya Fish is not Kerr"......

Its easy conceptually to point out what is wrong, and conceptually say what could be better. Fact is, there is no accountability to it. So F500, your not really saying anything because you can't suggest a better way.
Rush Limbaugh makes a ton of money pointing what is wrong but has not tangable way to provide a fix, nor be accountable.

If Nix or others have a "faith in the process" so what if they do. Faith is defines as "an unsubstantiated belief". The followers of Jesus as the Messiah have no proof of his existance as dipicted. They choose to believe.

Nalod is the guy who bought you Mooby and dipicted the Melo loving Mooby as a guilible follower of a false god. So why do I defend? Im not, he is who he is. A top scoring Small Forward on a losing team. 5-26.

Question is can he be part of a winning team? Some have faith he can. Some don't. Fans are suffering but you revel in the righiousness of it all.

This is you after a loss and Melo is not able to carry further:

every subject comes back to "Melo this, Melo that......"

You're not a good poster. You are shrill which completely deflates your bogus principles. Your hysterical protests have gone on for weeks now rendering you a completely irrelevant thinker. For close to a week you referred to other posters as Circle Jerks. You cannot be taken seriously. Whatever qualities of thought you may possess have been consumed by your incessant need to shame other posters. It has made you boring and unreadable, thus I'm not reading you anymore. Ignored.

perhaps thru the lines that is what you got out of it. I preach the logical thought process and rather than try to see a longer vision the circle jerk of hate prefers to find a topic, join in and have a quick gizmofest to make yourselves feel better. My principles are defined as logical buisness.

Really its "Phil included Melo not for this season, but to already have a piece in place for the next phase".
vs.
"If he really wanted to blow it up he'd would not resign him, or trade him NOW before his value goes to zero!!!!"

Im in the camp that we could have a top pick and Melo to build with. Thats two pieces. Then add a free agent.

Nothing that happend in the past matters if Phil has set to change the culture. Nothing is guaranteed, but one can make that presentation that:

Fish is the coach. He is well liked and respected in the league.
Knicks will run this system and PHil got 11 rings to show it works. Pop has his system and his culture. THis is what we are doing here.

This is not hard to fathom. I can't prove this will happen. Just LIke I can't prove Melo will be more commited to it. All some have is "he took the money and will shyt all over our culture"!!!

Time will tell.

The circle of melo hate will get sticky after a while. If you like it there enjoy it. In time you can clean up and join the rest of us.

F500ONE wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Splat wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

nixluva wrote:Melo is just one player. If we're talking about adding a 1st rd draft pick and signing, at the least, one good FA this year. Those 3 will form the new core of the team. I fail to see why people are making it seem like adding better talent, that fits our needs, won't help this team move back towards winning and a better future. Some may not like Melo's game but he's not a detriment to winning that they make him out to be. You can't have it both ways. Those who say this team needs better talent, preferably 2 way players and a better mix, can't then say that if we get those players that we still can't win cuz of Melo. The more 2 way players we add to this team the better it will be. I've criticized Melo a lot of the years but he's not the reason the team has flopped the last couple of years.

Melo is a major reason the team has flopped past couple years

As we can see it wasn't Woodson nor Felton's either right going by your miscalculations

Melo doesn't provide what the 54 win team[which also lacked talent]

NO LEADERSHIP, NO HEART, LOSER MENTALITY

Im just glad Nix has gotten away from the nonsense of calling calderon a leader, and how it's impossible for Phil Fish and calderon to be worse than the previous. Now he knows. Melo is a problem and to be honest he's the main problem.

Melo begs for more scoring help when the team he was just involved with was 3rd in offensive rating (2012-13 Knicks).....so they trade for Bargs, who quite honestly hasnt even replaced Novak.

Thats besides lack of leadership, inconsistent defense, or just having an ounce of team concept.

Like I said before anyone can score if they keep shooting.

Calderon is just a little bit off of what I expected him to be. He's not where the big problem have come from. It's been the lack of production from the SG spot primarily. We had 3 SG's and should've been able to get much more out of that spot in this offense. I'm not really conceding all of the points you guys are trying to make here. Just because things didn't work out as planned doesn't mean that I feel this team couldn't have played much better if they had a healthy Jose and Bargs from the very start of the year. I never got to see the team that was expected to start the year, so why would I concede the point I was making? Accepting the current situation is not the same as admitting I was wrong about the team.

I've made this point over and over again that this team was 3-16 in games where they were within 5pts with 5 minutes to go. We didn't get what I expected to get from JR and THJ. I thought Shump looked good but for this to work everyone would have to not only "buy in" but be productive. Once things started to go bad it spiraled. I think it could've gone the other way with a much better start.

None of that really matters now. It's up to Phil to decide if he's going to push the tank button or still try to improve this years team. Since there's a very realistic chance at the #1 pick it makes more sense now to actually tank and start the process of the rebuild that was going to happen anyway. Only now with a higher pick. If Phil embraces the idea of tanking then he will have to make some kind of move because there is still the danger that this team could start playing just a little better. It wouldn't take much to move up and out of the top lottery picks. Sixers have started playing better and that could also happen to the Knicks despite how bad they may have looked so far.

Will you stop peddling BS please?

Jose is not what you claim he is. The impact you predicted has been proven false. Your constant bargaining for more time for your weak hypotheses to be borne out is really weak.

exactly its cool to have a positive outlook on a player but jose just isnt good which is why dallas wanted him gone so quickly

Nix sold UK masses that the addition of Calderon

Would take a rudderless 37win team to a 50win team

He factored everything into consideration including

Calderon's supposed impact on the team encompassing guard play

Now he wants refine the guards from the PURE Calderon

Nothing can save him now, not even a mad Nalod

The roster is in the junkyard and nothing is salvageable

Melo is growing rotund by the loss and has pronounced the team as "dying"

In the end none of this really matters since we all knew this team wasn't going to be kept together as it is. It just would've been good for this team to play well and set the tone for the future. It was a one year transition roster and we all knew that. No one should be patting themselves on the back cuz the team has underperformed so far. You wanna take a victory lap for that go ahead.

nixluva wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Splat wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

nixluva wrote:Melo is just one player. If we're talking about adding a 1st rd draft pick and signing, at the least, one good FA this year. Those 3 will form the new core of the team. I fail to see why people are making it seem like adding better talent, that fits our needs, won't help this team move back towards winning and a better future. Some may not like Melo's game but he's not a detriment to winning that they make him out to be. You can't have it both ways. Those who say this team needs better talent, preferably 2 way players and a better mix, can't then say that if we get those players that we still can't win cuz of Melo. The more 2 way players we add to this team the better it will be. I've criticized Melo a lot of the years but he's not the reason the team has flopped the last couple of years.

Melo is a major reason the team has flopped past couple years

As we can see it wasn't Woodson nor Felton's either right going by your miscalculations

Melo doesn't provide what the 54 win team[which also lacked talent]

NO LEADERSHIP, NO HEART, LOSER MENTALITY

Im just glad Nix has gotten away from the nonsense of calling calderon a leader, and how it's impossible for Phil Fish and calderon to be worse than the previous. Now he knows. Melo is a problem and to be honest he's the main problem.

Melo begs for more scoring help when the team he was just involved with was 3rd in offensive rating (2012-13 Knicks).....so they trade for Bargs, who quite honestly hasnt even replaced Novak.

Thats besides lack of leadership, inconsistent defense, or just having an ounce of team concept.

Like I said before anyone can score if they keep shooting.

Calderon is just a little bit off of what I expected him to be. He's not where the big problem have come from. It's been the lack of production from the SG spot primarily. We had 3 SG's and should've been able to get much more out of that spot in this offense. I'm not really conceding all of the points you guys are trying to make here. Just because things didn't work out as planned doesn't mean that I feel this team couldn't have played much better if they had a healthy Jose and Bargs from the very start of the year. I never got to see the team that was expected to start the year, so why would I concede the point I was making? Accepting the current situation is not the same as admitting I was wrong about the team.

I've made this point over and over again that this team was 3-16 in games where they were within 5pts with 5 minutes to go. We didn't get what I expected to get from JR and THJ. I thought Shump looked good but for this to work everyone would have to not only "buy in" but be productive. Once things started to go bad it spiraled. I think it could've gone the other way with a much better start.

None of that really matters now. It's up to Phil to decide if he's going to push the tank button or still try to improve this years team. Since there's a very realistic chance at the #1 pick it makes more sense now to actually tank and start the process of the rebuild that was going to happen anyway. Only now with a higher pick. If Phil embraces the idea of tanking then he will have to make some kind of move because there is still the danger that this team could start playing just a little better. It wouldn't take much to move up and out of the top lottery picks. Sixers have started playing better and that could also happen to the Knicks despite how bad they may have looked so far.

Will you stop peddling BS please?

Jose is not what you claim he is. The impact you predicted has been proven false. Your constant bargaining for more time for your weak hypotheses to be borne out is really weak.

exactly its cool to have a positive outlook on a player but jose just isnt good which is why dallas wanted him gone so quickly

Nix sold UK masses that the addition of Calderon

Would take a rudderless 37win team to a 50win team

He factored everything into consideration including

Calderon's supposed impact on the team encompassing guard play

Now he wants refine the guards from the PURE Calderon

Nothing can save him now, not even a mad Nalod

The roster is in the junkyard and nothing is salvageable

Melo is growing rotund by the loss and has pronounced the team as "dying"

You always want to make this about me. Get over it. It was just a prediction. I never said that Jose by himself would take the team from 37 to 50 wins. You kept trying to insinuate that I was saying that. It's what you do. Jose is just a little off his usual production and part of that was likely due to the injury and time missed. The team stumbled out of the gate and it was made worse by injuries. Jose got hurt and missed the start of the season. Bargs hasn't played a game. Other key players have missed time due to injury. Melo is playing with knee pain. This team never has been able to play with it's key players on the floor. They needed that to have a chance to develop a solid starting unit and chemistry. We've had to play guys who were not supposed to have as prominent a role as they have.

In the end none of this really matters since we all knew this team wasn't going to be kept together as it is. It just would've been good for this team to play well and set the tone for the future. It was a one year transition roster and we all knew that. No one should be patting themselves on the back cuz the team has underperformed so far. You wanna take a victory lap for that go ahead.

And it IS, and that hurts your feelings because you're always wrong with the ridiculous predictions because you refuse to ackonledge that shyt happens....injuries happen to every team, but youre the only one shocked the Knicks have injuries.

You claimed these cats were healthy, Phil stated some time ago that Bargs was NEVER healthy and was disappointed in his conditioning, things everyone knew except you.

Most knew this team EVEN healthy was terrible and expected some injuries to happen...all teams face them.

The only thing I ask of you...remain positive, but be realistic.

Here's a start. Go......

nixluva wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Splat wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

nixluva wrote:Melo is just one player. If we're talking about adding a 1st rd draft pick and signing, at the least, one good FA this year. Those 3 will form the new core of the team. I fail to see why people are making it seem like adding better talent, that fits our needs, won't help this team move back towards winning and a better future. Some may not like Melo's game but he's not a detriment to winning that they make him out to be. You can't have it both ways. Those who say this team needs better talent, preferably 2 way players and a better mix, can't then say that if we get those players that we still can't win cuz of Melo. The more 2 way players we add to this team the better it will be. I've criticized Melo a lot of the years but he's not the reason the team has flopped the last couple of years.

Melo is a major reason the team has flopped past couple years

As we can see it wasn't Woodson nor Felton's either right going by your miscalculations

Melo doesn't provide what the 54 win team[which also lacked talent]

NO LEADERSHIP, NO HEART, LOSER MENTALITY

Im just glad Nix has gotten away from the nonsense of calling calderon a leader, and how it's impossible for Phil Fish and calderon to be worse than the previous. Now he knows. Melo is a problem and to be honest he's the main problem.

Melo begs for more scoring help when the team he was just involved with was 3rd in offensive rating (2012-13 Knicks).....so they trade for Bargs, who quite honestly hasnt even replaced Novak.

Thats besides lack of leadership, inconsistent defense, or just having an ounce of team concept.

Like I said before anyone can score if they keep shooting.

Calderon is just a little bit off of what I expected him to be. He's not where the big problem have come from. It's been the lack of production from the SG spot primarily. We had 3 SG's and should've been able to get much more out of that spot in this offense. I'm not really conceding all of the points you guys are trying to make here. Just because things didn't work out as planned doesn't mean that I feel this team couldn't have played much better if they had a healthy Jose and Bargs from the very start of the year. I never got to see the team that was expected to start the year, so why would I concede the point I was making? Accepting the current situation is not the same as admitting I was wrong about the team.

I've made this point over and over again that this team was 3-16 in games where they were within 5pts with 5 minutes to go. We didn't get what I expected to get from JR and THJ. I thought Shump looked good but for this to work everyone would have to not only "buy in" but be productive. Once things started to go bad it spiraled. I think it could've gone the other way with a much better start.

None of that really matters now. It's up to Phil to decide if he's going to push the tank button or still try to improve this years team. Since there's a very realistic chance at the #1 pick it makes more sense now to actually tank and start the process of the rebuild that was going to happen anyway. Only now with a higher pick. If Phil embraces the idea of tanking then he will have to make some kind of move because there is still the danger that this team could start playing just a little better. It wouldn't take much to move up and out of the top lottery picks. Sixers have started playing better and that could also happen to the Knicks despite how bad they may have looked so far.

Will you stop peddling BS please?

Jose is not what you claim he is. The impact you predicted has been proven false. Your constant bargaining for more time for your weak hypotheses to be borne out is really weak.

exactly its cool to have a positive outlook on a player but jose just isnt good which is why dallas wanted him gone so quickly

Nix sold UK masses that the addition of Calderon

Would take a rudderless 37win team to a 50win team

He factored everything into consideration including

Calderon's supposed impact on the team encompassing guard play

Now he wants refine the guards from the PURE Calderon

Nothing can save him now, not even a mad Nalod

The roster is in the junkyard and nothing is salvageable

Melo is growing rotund by the loss and has pronounced the team as "dying"

You always want to make this about me. Get over it. It was just a prediction. I never said that Jose by himself would take the team from 37 to 50 wins. You kept trying to insinuate that I was saying that. It's what you do. Jose is just a little off his usual production and part of that was likely due to the injury and time missed. The team stumbled out of the gate and it was made worse by injuries. Jose got hurt and missed the start of the season. Bargs hasn't played a game. Other key players have missed time due to injury. Melo is playing with knee pain. This team never has been able to play with it's key players on the floor. They needed that to have a chance to develop a solid starting unit and chemistry. We've had to play guys who were not supposed to have as prominent a role as they have.

In the end none of this really matters since we all knew this team wasn't going to be kept together as it is. It just would've been good for this team to play well and set the tone for the future. It was a one year transition roster and we all knew that. No one should be patting themselves on the back cuz the team has underperformed so far. You wanna take a victory lap for that go ahead.

Did you go through the rest of the league

And review their injury report

Did you really think this team was

Going to produce a strong bill of health considering history

Let's cut to the chase don't ever use this as an excuse again

Not after looking at the

Bulls, Spurs, OKC, Raptors, Pacers, Miami, Golden State, Houston, Wizards

All of whom had significant injuries to key players

And have had a better record than us all yr, with some

Producing the better records overall in the entire league

If the team as a whole wasn't going to be kept together

No way it reaches a pinnacle of 50wins as you'd have to factor

Situations and Circumstances of personal concern for the players

Who realize this eventuality more so than you or I

All in all this isn't to show how off you were about Calderon

It's how wildly off you are in analytics across the board