BRIGGS wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

VCoug wrote:How much would it cost to convince him to sign here? Bear in mind, he's in his 3rd year so a max deal would start at $20M. I would imagine we would need to pay him at least $15M for him to consider signing here and we wouldn't have enough space to offer Butler a max deal.

IF the Knicks wanted to try and get both Butler and Dragic--I think there are ways to do it(I man finding the cap space) but you would have to really determine that these are the guys you want as you would be maxed out for the next 4 years. Because Melo makes 25mm--it might make sense to look at just 1 guy and see if we can really get into the area of "cost restricted" contracts and development like the Spurs and OKC do. We need players who play beyond what they make. I'm not sure I would offer both guys. If we get Ok4--maybe--but my goal would be to keep the cap space open in 2016 for a maximum spot. Im sure there are back channels to see if there is anyway we would be able to be in the running for KD in 2016.

There aren't the most cap we could clear is about $30mil

No players are coming here with a completely gutted roster

A player who may have to go under the knife

While the top heavy part of the Conference inches to becoming slightly better

You can't fit those 2 realistically into this space

Post with your brain and heart and not just with the latter

We can have as much as 45mm in cap room. You talk that we are dead set on having Calderon Smith and Prigs here--and there are ways to remove a majority of their $ from our cap. Jees I might as well pack it in--Ill just wave the white flag and say we sck for 10 years--no way out. Let me say if I had a company to run there are few guys here I would not want part of it. While you have to have disaster plans in between plans--you run your company(in this case team) with a positive methodical outlook. We have a plan in front of us--we need to execute part A get the worst record in the league--get Melo healthy and trade off any assets we can for what we can get. Lets start there--maybe a team wants a vet PG like prigs at the deadline--that would be -2mm next year right away. But things like this are not possible because it just cant happen right?

The only way we could get close to $45M in cap space, while keeping Melo, is if we dumped everyone on the roster except for Melo. That includes trading away our 1st rounder for nothing. Let's say the cap goes up to $68M, which is a significant jump and probably isn't going to happen. Over $22M of that is eaten by Melo bringing us down to $46M right there. We're hoping to get a top 3 pick which will add at least $4.5M bringing us to $41M. We picked up THJr's option bringing us to $40M. And Calderon is still on the team at $7M+ which brings the space down to $32M. This doesn't include JR ($6M), Shumpert (at least $3.8M), Wear ($1M and the two draft picks we traded away to open up a roster spot for him), Prigioni ($1.7M team option with 290k guaranteed), or the cap holds for the open roster spots (over $500k for each open roster spot.

VCoug wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

VCoug wrote:How much would it cost to convince him to sign here? Bear in mind, he's in his 3rd year so a max deal would start at $20M. I would imagine we would need to pay him at least $15M for him to consider signing here and we wouldn't have enough space to offer Butler a max deal.

IF the Knicks wanted to try and get both Butler and Dragic--I think there are ways to do it(I man finding the cap space) but you would have to really determine that these are the guys you want as you would be maxed out for the next 4 years. Because Melo makes 25mm--it might make sense to look at just 1 guy and see if we can really get into the area of "cost restricted" contracts and development like the Spurs and OKC do. We need players who play beyond what they make. I'm not sure I would offer both guys. If we get Ok4--maybe--but my goal would be to keep the cap space open in 2016 for a maximum spot. Im sure there are back channels to see if there is anyway we would be able to be in the running for KD in 2016.

There aren't the most cap we could clear is about $30mil

No players are coming here with a completely gutted roster

A player who may have to go under the knife

While the top heavy part of the Conference inches to becoming slightly better

You can't fit those 2 realistically into this space

Post with your brain and heart and not just with the latter

We can have as much as 45mm in cap room. You talk that we are dead set on having Calderon Smith and Prigs here--and there are ways to remove a majority of their $ from our cap. Jees I might as well pack it in--Ill just wave the white flag and say we sck for 10 years--no way out. Let me say if I had a company to run there are few guys here I would not want part of it. While you have to have disaster plans in between plans--you run your company(in this case team) with a positive methodical outlook. We have a plan in front of us--we need to execute part A get the worst record in the league--get Melo healthy and trade off any assets we can for what we can get. Lets start there--maybe a team wants a vet PG like prigs at the deadline--that would be -2mm next year right away. But things like this are not possible because it just cant happen right?

The only way we could get close to $45M in cap space, while keeping Melo, is if we dumped everyone on the roster except for Melo. That includes trading away our 1st rounder for nothing. Let's say the cap goes up to $68M, which is a significant jump and probably isn't going to happen. Over $22M of that is eaten by Melo bringing us down to $46M right there. We're hoping to get a top 3 pick which will add at least $4.5M bringing us to $41M. We picked up THJr's option bringing us to $40M. And Calderon is still on the team at $7M+ which brings the space down to $32M. This doesn't include JR ($6M), Shumpert (at least $3.8M), Wear ($1M and the two draft picks we traded away to open up a roster spot for him), Prigioni ($1.7M team option with 290k guaranteed), or the cap holds for the open roster spots (over $500k for each open roster spot.

It would help if Briggs would do 1 of 2 things

Stop spewing fallacies of garbage or once he does

Back it up with some kind of trail of detail

There's no way we can clear $45mil of cap space

And when posting stuff like this it's actually irresponsible

On any posters part to do so because there are some here who don't understand the finer details of CBA

And will believe and repeat it to the masses

Show some sense of responsibility here

Now with all the guaranteed money on the books next year

Even if it can be moved, it will come at cost that Briggs would not be willing to go about

Calderon/Smith alone would require sending a pick or picks out with them

Unless of course pipe dream scenario Smith opts out on his own

Then all we can offer Butler or Dragic are 4yr deals

How does this place us apart from the Bulls and the rest of the field with cap space

BRIGGS wrote:

VCoug wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

VCoug wrote:How much would it cost to convince him to sign here? Bear in mind, he's in his 3rd year so a max deal would start at $20M. I would imagine we would need to pay him at least $15M for him to consider signing here and we wouldn't have enough space to offer Butler a max deal.

IF the Knicks wanted to try and get both Butler and Dragic--I think there are ways to do it(I man finding the cap space) but you would have to really determine that these are the guys you want as you would be maxed out for the next 4 years. Because Melo makes 25mm--it might make sense to look at just 1 guy and see if we can really get into the area of "cost restricted" contracts and development like the Spurs and OKC do. We need players who play beyond what they make. I'm not sure I would offer both guys. If we get Ok4--maybe--but my goal would be to keep the cap space open in 2016 for a maximum spot. Im sure there are back channels to see if there is anyway we would be able to be in the running for KD in 2016.

There aren't the most cap we could clear is about $30mil

No players are coming here with a completely gutted roster

A player who may have to go under the knife

While the top heavy part of the Conference inches to becoming slightly better

You can't fit those 2 realistically into this space

Post with your brain and heart and not just with the latter

We can have as much as 45mm in cap room. You talk that we are dead set on having Calderon Smith and Prigs here--and there are ways to remove a majority of their $ from our cap. Jees I might as well pack it in--Ill just wave the white flag and say we sck for 10 years--no way out. Let me say if I had a company to run there are few guys here I would not want part of it. While you have to have disaster plans in between plans--you run your company(in this case team) with a positive methodical outlook. We have a plan in front of us--we need to execute part A get the worst record in the league--get Melo healthy and trade off any assets we can for what we can get. Lets start there--maybe a team wants a vet PG like prigs at the deadline--that would be -2mm next year right away. But things like this are not possible because it just cant happen right?

The only way we could get close to $45M in cap space, while keeping Melo, is if we dumped everyone on the roster except for Melo. That includes trading away our 1st rounder for nothing. Let's say the cap goes up to $68M, which is a significant jump and probably isn't going to happen. Over $22M of that is eaten by Melo bringing us down to $46M right there. We're hoping to get a top 3 pick which will add at least $4.5M bringing us to $41M. We picked up THJr's option bringing us to $40M. And Calderon is still on the team at $7M+ which brings the space down to $32M. This doesn't include JR ($6M), Shumpert (at least $3.8M), Wear ($1M and the two draft picks we traded away to open up a roster spot for him), Prigioni ($1.7M team option with 290k guaranteed), or the cap holds for the open roster spots (over $500k for each open roster spot.

I didnt know Prigs was only on the books for 290k--that should make him even easier to move. Shumpert is gone--we didnt pick up his option at 3.8mm--we can stretch Calderon's 15mm which opens up 4.5 and 4.7 Y-Y and we can either trade Smith or renegotiate with Smith if he opts out. Acy and Wear are both team options. I believe we would have enough to offer close to two max contracts--there is almost no doubt in my mind. But like I said in previous post--I dont see us going there--BUT it is possible if need be.

If we end up having to use the stretch provision on Calderon I'm going to be even more pissed off about the Tyson trade; if we're going to do that we could've done the same thing to Felton, which would up open up more cap space than stretching Calderon, and traded Tyson for actual assets. Seriously, I'm going to be pissed.

JR is playing terrible basketball, has really turned into something of a problem for this team, and is still injured. I don't see a team trading for him unless we're giving up something else for their troubles. And I don't see JR opting out.

Shumpert doesn't have an option, he has a qualifying offer. We'd be pretty stupid not to offer it since it lets us control an asset for at least a little while longer instead of giving him away for nothing. Of course, we've been pretty bad at giving away assets for nothing.

And you're still ignoring the cap holds. $500k+ isn't a lot individually but when we're talking about bumping up against the cap having 5 open roster spots and losing $2.5M because of them will hurt.

F500ONE wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

VCoug wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

VCoug wrote:How much would it cost to convince him to sign here? Bear in mind, he's in his 3rd year so a max deal would start at $20M. I would imagine we would need to pay him at least $15M for him to consider signing here and we wouldn't have enough space to offer Butler a max deal.

IF the Knicks wanted to try and get both Butler and Dragic--I think there are ways to do it(I man finding the cap space) but you would have to really determine that these are the guys you want as you would be maxed out for the next 4 years. Because Melo makes 25mm--it might make sense to look at just 1 guy and see if we can really get into the area of "cost restricted" contracts and development like the Spurs and OKC do. We need players who play beyond what they make. I'm not sure I would offer both guys. If we get Ok4--maybe--but my goal would be to keep the cap space open in 2016 for a maximum spot. Im sure there are back channels to see if there is anyway we would be able to be in the running for KD in 2016.

There aren't the most cap we could clear is about $30mil

No players are coming here with a completely gutted roster

A player who may have to go under the knife

While the top heavy part of the Conference inches to becoming slightly better

You can't fit those 2 realistically into this space

Post with your brain and heart and not just with the latter

We can have as much as 45mm in cap room. You talk that we are dead set on having Calderon Smith and Prigs here--and there are ways to remove a majority of their $ from our cap. Jees I might as well pack it in--Ill just wave the white flag and say we sck for 10 years--no way out. Let me say if I had a company to run there are few guys here I would not want part of it. While you have to have disaster plans in between plans--you run your company(in this case team) with a positive methodical outlook. We have a plan in front of us--we need to execute part A get the worst record in the league--get Melo healthy and trade off any assets we can for what we can get. Lets start there--maybe a team wants a vet PG like prigs at the deadline--that would be -2mm next year right away. But things like this are not possible because it just cant happen right?

The only way we could get close to $45M in cap space, while keeping Melo, is if we dumped everyone on the roster except for Melo. That includes trading away our 1st rounder for nothing. Let's say the cap goes up to $68M, which is a significant jump and probably isn't going to happen. Over $22M of that is eaten by Melo bringing us down to $46M right there. We're hoping to get a top 3 pick which will add at least $4.5M bringing us to $41M. We picked up THJr's option bringing us to $40M. And Calderon is still on the team at $7M+ which brings the space down to $32M. This doesn't include JR ($6M), Shumpert (at least $3.8M), Wear ($1M and the two draft picks we traded away to open up a roster spot for him), Prigioni ($1.7M team option with 290k guaranteed), or the cap holds for the open roster spots (over $500k for each open roster spot.

I didnt know Prigs was only on the books for 290k--that should make him even easier to move. Shumpert is gone--we didnt pick up his option at 3.8mm--we can stretch Calderon's 15mm which opens up 4.5 and 4.7 Y-Y and we can either trade Smith or renegotiate with Smith if he opts out. Acy and Wear are both team options. I believe we would have enough to offer close to two max contracts--there is almost no doubt in my mind. But like I said in previous post--I dont see us going there--BUT it is possible if need be.

Okay with such a dream we wouldn't have $45mil in cap space

You want Amar'e back at $3mil right or are you flip-flopping here?

Melo = $23mil
Jose = $3.5mil(stretch... make it half what's owed)
Pick = $4.7 to $3.7 multiplier by 120% cap hit = $5.6mil to $4.5mil
THJR = $1.3mil
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k

I won't even include Pablo and J.R. leaves pipe dream style

8 empty roster spots added to the above

Id be very close to the 32mm number right there and thats without the cap moving up. Like I said it would likely be in our best interests to go after 1 premium FA and leave the flexibility to offer KD a maximum contract in 2016.

BRIGGS wrote:It would give us an athletic mobile 20 point PG who penetrates and shoots a high %.

We use stretch provision on Calderon which gives us 4.4mm more in spending

We give Dragic 4 years 62mm (15.5per)

and shore up the club based on who we get out of the draft.

If we get Okafor

Spend the rest on Danny Green (4 years 30mm) (Branden Wright 4 years 24.5mm)

That would give us a big three in Melo Dragic Ok4

and efficient role players @ C and SG.

Get aggressive in draft by using Tim Hardaway 3mm in cash and if need be our 2017 pick to retool the entire 2nd half of roster with 2 more bigs and a guard.

The goal would be to retool/rebuild the entire roster in 1 year while leaving about 7-8mm in flexibility open for 2016

I don't mind keeping Calderon rather than stretching him, however, if we do keep him, we would need a combo guard like Lance Stephenson that has the ability to penetrate, defend, facilitate, and grab rebounds
Calderon should be the secondary ball handler and a spot up shooter rather than our #1 facilitator or lead guard
Of course at this point, I would want a 1st rounder and a 2nd rounder to compensate for taking his contract

Also I am not sure if anyone would give us a 2nd rounder for Amare at this point as his salary is hard to match

Thomas Robinson could be available for a low salary as Portland will likely not match as they have a lot of contracts to choose from this coming summer with

LA
Wesley Mathewws
Lopez
some of their 2 younger Centers in Freeland and Meyers Leanord, in addition to Kaman at a steal for his production as a backup

If we can trade Amare, AB, or whoever, and get back a trade exemption, I am all for it

Also I would not give Brandon Wright a 4 year deal, unless 4th year is team option, but would prefer 2-3 year deals with 3rd year being team options, leaving room for error
I don't see Danny Green being available but I think he would be a great fit if we had some legit post options and play makers, he does a bit of everything and has improved very much on EVERYTHING especially under rated DEFENSE

Look at how Dallas and teams like Houston offer 2year deals with 2nd year being team options and they could be used as pieces to match salaries for dumps

I wonder what Brandon Knight's market value would be but I would guess it would be in the range of 10-12m with the way Kidd and The Bucks are playing
I am not very impressed with the way Reggie Jackson has been playing because he is looking to put up stats to justify his contract rather than trying to get W's on a tough WESTERN CONFERENCE
I think Reggie Jackson is capable of being a starting PG, combo guard, but he is playing way to selfishly, and he is NOT comparable to Eric Bledsoe's contract at all
He would be lucky to get 10-12 per year on a 3year + deal in my opinion, unless he shows he could be a better defensive player and facilitator, and not just a scoring PG

I would much rather have Brandon Knight and combinations of PGs like Bayless/Sessions on much lower and smaller deals, 2 players I thought we should have targetted this past summer with our MINI MLE

BRIGGS wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

VCoug wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

VCoug wrote:How much would it cost to convince him to sign here? Bear in mind, he's in his 3rd year so a max deal would start at $20M. I would imagine we would need to pay him at least $15M for him to consider signing here and we wouldn't have enough space to offer Butler a max deal.

IF the Knicks wanted to try and get both Butler and Dragic--I think there are ways to do it(I man finding the cap space) but you would have to really determine that these are the guys you want as you would be maxed out for the next 4 years. Because Melo makes 25mm--it might make sense to look at just 1 guy and see if we can really get into the area of "cost restricted" contracts and development like the Spurs and OKC do. We need players who play beyond what they make. I'm not sure I would offer both guys. If we get Ok4--maybe--but my goal would be to keep the cap space open in 2016 for a maximum spot. Im sure there are back channels to see if there is anyway we would be able to be in the running for KD in 2016.

There aren't the most cap we could clear is about $30mil

No players are coming here with a completely gutted roster

A player who may have to go under the knife

While the top heavy part of the Conference inches to becoming slightly better

You can't fit those 2 realistically into this space

Post with your brain and heart and not just with the latter

We can have as much as 45mm in cap room. You talk that we are dead set on having Calderon Smith and Prigs here--and there are ways to remove a majority of their $ from our cap. Jees I might as well pack it in--Ill just wave the white flag and say we sck for 10 years--no way out. Let me say if I had a company to run there are few guys here I would not want part of it. While you have to have disaster plans in between plans--you run your company(in this case team) with a positive methodical outlook. We have a plan in front of us--we need to execute part A get the worst record in the league--get Melo healthy and trade off any assets we can for what we can get. Lets start there--maybe a team wants a vet PG like prigs at the deadline--that would be -2mm next year right away. But things like this are not possible because it just cant happen right?

The only way we could get close to $45M in cap space, while keeping Melo, is if we dumped everyone on the roster except for Melo. That includes trading away our 1st rounder for nothing. Let's say the cap goes up to $68M, which is a significant jump and probably isn't going to happen. Over $22M of that is eaten by Melo bringing us down to $46M right there. We're hoping to get a top 3 pick which will add at least $4.5M bringing us to $41M. We picked up THJr's option bringing us to $40M. And Calderon is still on the team at $7M+ which brings the space down to $32M. This doesn't include JR ($6M), Shumpert (at least $3.8M), Wear ($1M and the two draft picks we traded away to open up a roster spot for him), Prigioni ($1.7M team option with 290k guaranteed), or the cap holds for the open roster spots (over $500k for each open roster spot.

I didnt know Prigs was only on the books for 290k--that should make him even easier to move. Shumpert is gone--we didnt pick up his option at 3.8mm--we can stretch Calderon's 15mm which opens up 4.5 and 4.7 Y-Y and we can either trade Smith or renegotiate with Smith if he opts out. Acy and Wear are both team options. I believe we would have enough to offer close to two max contracts--there is almost no doubt in my mind. But like I said in previous post--I dont see us going there--BUT it is possible if need be.

Okay with such a dream we wouldn't have $45mil in cap space

You want Amar'e back at $3mil right or are you flip-flopping here?

Melo = $23mil
Jose = $3.5mil(stretch... make it half what's owed)
Pick = $4.7 to $3.7 multiplier by 120% cap hit = $5.6mil to $4.5mil
THJR = $1.3mil
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k
ERS = $500k

I won't even include Pablo and J.R. leaves pipe dream style

8 empty roster spots added to the above

Id be very close to the 32mm number right there and thats without the cap moving up. Like I said it would likely be in our best interests to go after 1 premium FA and leave the flexibility to offer KD a maximum contract in 2016.

many teams have at least 2 ALL STAR caliber players
even more teams have 4 VERY GOOD PLAYERS with combined ALL STARS/BORDERLINE ALL STAR's and many more role players

Briggs,
With the philosophy ways you are constructing the team, you are suggesting we can build a contender with 3 ALL STAR's *NONE OF WHICH would have the talents of LA or Marc Gasol, unlikely even a Millsap

Even if we add those type of players, we would still need solid glue players like Danny Green/Gereld Green/Randy Foye/Hickson/WIlson Chandler/DRaymond Green/Livingston and we wouldn't be able to get those servicable glue players

It doesn't help that we have the highest tax rate and most media pressure/scrutiny to go along with the lowest assets/ability to continue to improve with a our lack of success

Jason Terry $5,450,000 $0 $0 $0 $0 $0

Kostas Papanikolaou $4,797,664 $4,851,769 $5,727,211 $0 $0 $0

Corey Brewer $4,702,500 $4,905,000 $0 $0 $0 $0

Alexey Shved $3,198,723 $3,998,408 $0 $0 $0 $0

Terrence Jones $1,618,680 $2,489,529 $3,532,642 $0 $0 $0

Donatas Motiejunas $1,483,920 $2,288,205 $3,278,996 $0 $0 $0

Joey Dorsey $948,163 $1,015,421 $0 $0 $0 $0
Patrick Beverley $915,243 $1,181,348 $0 $0 $0 $0
Isaiah Canaan $816,482 $947,276 $1,215,696 $0 $0 $0
Tarik Black $507,336 $845,049 $1,180,431 $0 $0 $0
Nick Johnson $507,336 $845,059 $980,431 $1,251,245 $0 $0

these are players that could add up to CA's contract and more to go along with the picks they have
IF we can get 2 1st rounders, 4 2nd rounders, in addition to DMO, Kostas Pap (unguaranteed contract), and a few role players, it really wouldn't be that bad of a trade considering our circumstances
If we can get Terrence Jones and/or Beverely and give them JR Smith and some decent players on a roster like that it could be a win win for both parties
Morey gets his BIG 3/4 and we get back the ability to get young talent, future cap space, and future picks, especially 2 of our 2nd roudners which are ours and likely will be HIGH 2nd rounders and > than a late 1st rounder since they cost much less and are unguaranteed contracts

It was pretty hard to match salaries but with Houston's current trades and pick up for Josh Smith, we actually could pull it a reasonable compensation by this trade deadline
Question is would Morey want to do it and look to rape us on another trade rather than pull of a BIG 3/4 this season
In order words, it would be best if we had at least another contender to drive up CA's value a bit or at least not get lowballed