dk7th wrote:

Splat wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Splat wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:Are you kidding. This is the best season I can remember since we actually had a real team a few years back. We have our pick (lotto) and cap space. This year is it, all or nothing pretty much.
If nothing else, this team has reinforced a basic premise of life - Sports is a distraction and just a game. We have bigger things to worry about.
If they turn it around, so be it, I'll root for them again, if not, oh well.

Even with the #1 pick, the most likely scenario is probably just that you get a solid NBA starter but not all-star. Now, with bad decision-makers at the top, you'd have to lower expectations. Here are the past ten first picks:
Andrew Wiggins
Anthony Bennett
Anthony Davis
Kyrie Irving
John Wall
Blake Griffin
Derrick Rose
Greg Oden
Andrea Bargnani
Andrew Bogut

That list is basically 50/50 on getting a bona fide All-Star (with Wiggins not a known result yet). You need to have the shot at that whether it pans out or not or you're overpaying for one of those other guys on the list like Oden.

Sure, you have a decent chance at an all-star. You also have a decent chance at an all-star proven commodity in free agency if you have a desirable team (which we don't). Even if it is 50/50, by the time the guy is playing at all-star level, Melo will probably be in his 15th or 16th season. My guess is Dolan will force Phil to trade the pick for a proven player.

Well, that's why the Melo signing was dumb as hell. It was some combination of commercial priorities and Phil's vanity, but there was never going to be a way to quickly stock the roster to maximize Melo and his expensive contract.

Thus the franchise is kind of fukked. The ones who say the draft won't fix us are right in one respect. It won't fix us in time to utilize Melo while he is still in one piece.

Yet there is no real alternative to a rebuild, so either the franchise takes its lumps and accepts that not doing some kind of sign and trade with Melo was a mistake or they will do the same thing they always do, overpay for players who don't make enough of a difference to care.

Either way, this franchise's only shot at capitalizing on Melo is catching lightning via the draft with savvy mid-level signings of smarter players plus good off the radar pickups. This is the only scenario putting us into contention within 2 seasons and for that to happen EVERYTHING HAS TO GO RIGHT. These are the Knicks, so ......

Or they can trade Melo ASAP and do a complete rebuild.

But if they max out somebody who turns this into another dynamic duo clown show without a roster to complement it, then the remainder of Melo's time here will be really ugly.

ha ha ha nobody has the temerity or argument to respond. the melo contract... period!

And who gave it to him on a silver platter

ALL ROADS LEAD TO PHIL

2. Miami was awful before bosh and Lebron joined Wade.

3. Cleveland had youthier assets and Lebron came home to losing team. They traded for Love. Not hard to understand.

4. Chris Paul marked the turn around in ClipJoint and team is building a winning culture with him.

5. Knicks might suck this year, but draft a stud, and add a free agent and its a talent Trio. Not hard to understand.

6. Maybe we waiting on Durant??? Durant and Melo? I don't know. Im throwing it out there.

7. Is Phil Jax have the mystical powers to sell his vision to others or he do a money grab? Stay tuned, he has had just on off season thus far.

8. Did he understand the media before he got here? I think so. He's been here before and in the NBA over 40 years!!!!

Bonn1997 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Splat wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:Are you kidding. This is the best season I can remember since we actually had a real team a few years back. We have our pick (lotto) and cap space. This year is it, all or nothing pretty much.
If nothing else, this team has reinforced a basic premise of life - Sports is a distraction and just a game. We have bigger things to worry about.
If they turn it around, so be it, I'll root for them again, if not, oh well.

Even with the #1 pick, the most likely scenario is probably just that you get a solid NBA starter but not all-star. Now, with bad decision-makers at the top, you'd have to lower expectations. Here are the past ten first picks:
Andrew Wiggins
Anthony Bennett
Anthony Davis
Kyrie Irving
John Wall
Blake Griffin
Derrick Rose
Greg Oden
Andrea Bargnani
Andrew Bogut

That list is basically 50/50 on getting a bona fide All-Star (with Wiggins not a known result yet). You need to have the shot at that whether it pans out or not or you're overpaying for one of those other guys on the list like Oden.

Sure, you have a decent chance at an all-star. You also have a decent chance at an all-star proven commodity in free agency if you have a desirable team (which we don't). Even if it is 50/50, by the time the guy is playing at all-star level, Melo will probably be in his 15th or 16th season. My guess is Dolan will force Phil to trade the pick for a proven player.

And Phil will listen to Dolan because?

It's the other way around. Dolan is the owner and makes the final decision. Phil CAN'T override Dolan.

So we're back to questioning FULL AUTONOMY

Except this time the price tag is $60mil of FAKE AUTONOMY

Maybe Melo is seen as an asset if the knicks want to trade him should plan "A", or "B" not develope.
Mabye blind hate of Melo makes some fans not see his value.
Maybe Melo sucks, has no value, can't be traded and is a detrement to the team.

Maybe. Its what makes all things possible.

Bonn1997 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Splat wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:Are you kidding. This is the best season I can remember since we actually had a real team a few years back. We have our pick (lotto) and cap space. This year is it, all or nothing pretty much.
If nothing else, this team has reinforced a basic premise of life - Sports is a distraction and just a game. We have bigger things to worry about.
If they turn it around, so be it, I'll root for them again, if not, oh well.

Even with the #1 pick, the most likely scenario is probably just that you get a solid NBA starter but not all-star. Now, with bad decision-makers at the top, you'd have to lower expectations. Here are the past ten first picks:
Andrew Wiggins
Anthony Bennett
Anthony Davis
Kyrie Irving
John Wall
Blake Griffin
Derrick Rose
Greg Oden
Andrea Bargnani
Andrew Bogut

That list is basically 50/50 on getting a bona fide All-Star (with Wiggins not a known result yet). You need to have the shot at that whether it pans out or not or you're overpaying for one of those other guys on the list like Oden.

Sure, you have a decent chance at an all-star. You also have a decent chance at an all-star proven commodity in free agency if you have a desirable team (which we don't). Even if it is 50/50, by the time the guy is playing at all-star level, Melo will probably be in his 15th or 16th season. My guess is Dolan will force Phil to trade the pick for a proven player.

And Phil will listen to Dolan because?

It's the other way around. Dolan is the owner and makes the final decision. Phil CAN'T override Dolan.

Dolan needs Phil more then Phil needs Dolan. Would Phil be okay putting his rep on the line making moves he doesnt agree with?

BRIGGS wrote:

Nalod wrote:1. Free agents are looking for money and to win. If Memphis can't or won't pay Gasol he'll walk. Odds are incumbent teams usually keeps its players so its not surprise if he stays. Lakers suck. Its desirable because of weather. Taxes suck in Calif. NYC is the cultural hub of north america. Its desirable to some. If they a free agent comes they are better than who they replace. Team gets better. not hard to understand.

2. Miami was awful before bosh and Lebron joined Wade.

3. Cleveland had youthier assets and Lebron came home to losing team. They traded for Love. Not hard to understand.

4. Chris Paul marked the turn around in ClipJoint and team is building a winning culture with him.

5. Knicks might suck this year, but draft a stud, and add a free agent and its a talent Trio. Not hard to understand.

6. Maybe we waiting on Durant??? Durant and Melo? I don't know. Im throwing it out there.

7. Is Phil Jax have the mystical powers to sell his vision to others or he do a money grab? Stay tuned, he has had just on off season thus far.

8. Did he understand the media before he got here? I think so. He's been here before and in the NBA over 40 years!!!!

Nalod--the Knicks are in a special position. We could have a top 3 pick AND Carmelo who is still a top 10 player. IF we can get rid of Calderon JR and Prigs--we open up and additional 16mm$. I still think Amare Stuodemire is seen as a very good player to the players in this league. If he was open to coming back for 4mm that would leave us with

Carmelo
a top 3 pick--maybe an additional mid range pick
Amare
Tim Hardaway
Quincy Acy
maybe another cheap player or two we can find.
Travis wear

Were set up for anything really good to happen. Right now its about purge and opportunistic trading. What I would like to get out of the last 40 games is to really push Wear's minutes Cole Aldrich's Hardaway's Shumpert's Larkin's and anyone we might pick up in a trade? Id like to make sure CA and Amare are rested heavily in the 2nd 1/2

By the way how about grabbing Lebron James and Aldridge with Jahill Okafor and Carmelo?

Your basically getting my point. The need to prepare for opportunity is what I preach and you laid out some good things. The draft will drive a lot of where we go via free agency. Trades can happen but I don't see much happening unless teams with injuries or needs see our our expendibles and desireable. Calderon can be useful to a team with cap or expiring that needs a back up or a stop gap shooter until. Toronto might need a back up. Two players for our 2016 pick back for example, and we take Landry for rest of season. Something like that. Derozen is hurt, they have a need. Not now, maybe later as season progresses.

Shyt happens. Gotta stay bottom 4 is my goal. Someone team out west will need Amare.

in the West:

6th Clips
7th Mavs
8th PHX

9th SAC
10th NO
11th Den
12th OKC

7 teams for the last three spots!!!
Someone wants it bad! Nobody is trading a cornerstone of their franchise but you gotta give up something!

What could the Warriors do with Amare off the bench for the stretch run??? Say Bellini goes down, bring in Caledron off the bench.
OKC maybe too far gone.
Maybe Toronto needs Shump?

Take these guys..........Give us some second rounders, EuroStash, or real late first sometime in the future
Their time is now. Ours is not.

fishmike wrote:

Nalod wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Nalod wrote:1. Free agents are looking for money and to win. If Memphis can't or won't pay Gasol he'll walk. Odds are incumbent teams usually keeps its players so its not surprise if he stays. Lakers suck. Its desirable because of weather. Taxes suck in Calif. NYC is the cultural hub of north america. Its desirable to some. If they a free agent comes they are better than who they replace. Team gets better. not hard to understand.

2. Miami was awful before bosh and Lebron joined Wade.

3. Cleveland had youthier assets and Lebron came home to losing team. They traded for Love. Not hard to understand.

4. Chris Paul marked the turn around in ClipJoint and team is building a winning culture with him.

5. Knicks might suck this year, but draft a stud, and add a free agent and its a talent Trio. Not hard to understand.

6. Maybe we waiting on Durant??? Durant and Melo? I don't know. Im throwing it out there.

7. Is Phil Jax have the mystical powers to sell his vision to others or he do a money grab? Stay tuned, he has had just on off season thus far.

8. Did he understand the media before he got here? I think so. He's been here before and in the NBA over 40 years!!!!

Nalod--the Knicks are in a special position. We could have a top 3 pick AND Carmelo who is still a top 10 player. IF we can get rid of Calderon JR and Prigs--we open up and additional 16mm$. I still think Amare Stuodemire is seen as a very good player to the players in this league. If he was open to coming back for 4mm that would leave us with

Carmelo
a top 3 pick--maybe an additional mid range pick
Amare
Tim Hardaway
Quincy Acy
maybe another cheap player or two we can find.
Travis wear

Were set up for anything really good to happen. Right now its about purge and opportunistic trading. What I would like to get out of the last 40 games is to really push Wear's minutes Cole Aldrich's Hardaway's Shumpert's Larkin's and anyone we might pick up in a trade? Id like to make sure CA and Amare are rested heavily in the 2nd 1/2

By the way how about grabbing Lebron James and Aldridge with Jahill Okafor and Carmelo?

Your basically getting my point. The need to prepare for opportunity is what I preach and you laid out some good things. The draft will drive a lot of where we go via free agency. Trades can happen but I don't see much happening unless teams with injuries or needs see our our expendibles and desireable. Calderon can be useful to a team with cap or expiring that needs a back up or a stop gap shooter until. Toronto might need a back up. Two players for our 2016 pick back for example, and we take Landry for rest of season. Something like that. Derozen is hurt, they have a need. Not now, maybe later as season progresses.

Shyt happens. Gotta stay bottom 4 is my goal. Someone team out west will need Amare.

in the West:

6th Clips
7th Mavs
8th PHX

9th SAC
10th NO
11th Den
12th OKC

7 teams for the last three spots!!!
Someone wants it bad! Nobody is trading a cornerstone of their franchise but you gotta give up something!

What could the Warriors do with Amare off the bench for the stretch run??? Say Bellini goes down, bring in Caledron off the bench.
OKC maybe too far gone.
Maybe Toronto needs Shump?

Take these guys..........Give us some second rounders, EuroStash, or real late first sometime in the future
Their time is now. Ours is not.

A couple of guys who can see beyond the pissing and moaning.

I like what is coming from the Knicks FO. Its not panic.

I thought it made sense to compete this year, and I thought we would play much better than we have. But this isnt bad, because we are on pace to net a top pick and we need that above all else.

I think Briggs nailed it in that the #1 priority should be to move JR and Jose. Then you can offer the max to 2 guys and you have Melo (scorer) and a top pick to add.

If Knicks fans really feel that moving Calderon is our #1 priority then we should all be super pissed at the front office.

VCoug wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Nalod wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Nalod wrote:1. Free agents are looking for money and to win. If Memphis can't or won't pay Gasol he'll walk. Odds are incumbent teams usually keeps its players so its not surprise if he stays. Lakers suck. Its desirable because of weather. Taxes suck in Calif. NYC is the cultural hub of north america. Its desirable to some. If they a free agent comes they are better than who they replace. Team gets better. not hard to understand.

2. Miami was awful before bosh and Lebron joined Wade.

3. Cleveland had youthier assets and Lebron came home to losing team. They traded for Love. Not hard to understand.

4. Chris Paul marked the turn around in ClipJoint and team is building a winning culture with him.

5. Knicks might suck this year, but draft a stud, and add a free agent and its a talent Trio. Not hard to understand.

6. Maybe we waiting on Durant??? Durant and Melo? I don't know. Im throwing it out there.

7. Is Phil Jax have the mystical powers to sell his vision to others or he do a money grab? Stay tuned, he has had just on off season thus far.

8. Did he understand the media before he got here? I think so. He's been here before and in the NBA over 40 years!!!!

Nalod--the Knicks are in a special position. We could have a top 3 pick AND Carmelo who is still a top 10 player. IF we can get rid of Calderon JR and Prigs--we open up and additional 16mm$. I still think Amare Stuodemire is seen as a very good player to the players in this league. If he was open to coming back for 4mm that would leave us with

Carmelo
a top 3 pick--maybe an additional mid range pick
Amare
Tim Hardaway
Quincy Acy
maybe another cheap player or two we can find.
Travis wear

Were set up for anything really good to happen. Right now its about purge and opportunistic trading. What I would like to get out of the last 40 games is to really push Wear's minutes Cole Aldrich's Hardaway's Shumpert's Larkin's and anyone we might pick up in a trade? Id like to make sure CA and Amare are rested heavily in the 2nd 1/2

By the way how about grabbing Lebron James and Aldridge with Jahill Okafor and Carmelo?

Your basically getting my point. The need to prepare for opportunity is what I preach and you laid out some good things. The draft will drive a lot of where we go via free agency. Trades can happen but I don't see much happening unless teams with injuries or needs see our our expendibles and desireable. Calderon can be useful to a team with cap or expiring that needs a back up or a stop gap shooter until. Toronto might need a back up. Two players for our 2016 pick back for example, and we take Landry for rest of season. Something like that. Derozen is hurt, they have a need. Not now, maybe later as season progresses.

Shyt happens. Gotta stay bottom 4 is my goal. Someone team out west will need Amare.

in the West:

6th Clips
7th Mavs
8th PHX

9th SAC
10th NO
11th Den
12th OKC

7 teams for the last three spots!!!
Someone wants it bad! Nobody is trading a cornerstone of their franchise but you gotta give up something!

What could the Warriors do with Amare off the bench for the stretch run??? Say Bellini goes down, bring in Caledron off the bench.
OKC maybe too far gone.
Maybe Toronto needs Shump?

Take these guys..........Give us some second rounders, EuroStash, or real late first sometime in the future
Their time is now. Ours is not.

A couple of guys who can see beyond the pissing and moaning.

I like what is coming from the Knicks FO. Its not panic.

I thought it made sense to compete this year, and I thought we would play much better than we have. But this isnt bad, because we are on pace to net a top pick and we need that above all else.

I think Briggs nailed it in that the #1 priority should be to move JR and Jose. Then you can offer the max to 2 guys and you have Melo (scorer) and a top pick to add.

If Knicks fans really feel that moving Calderon is our #1 priority then we should all be super pissed at the front office.