F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:It started with signing an uninsured Amare to $100M
Then trading every asset for Melo
Picking up Billips potion
Amnestying Billups not Amare
Signing Tyson
Mistreating Lin and letting him walk for nothing
Putting our eggs all on Raymond James Felton

Can't make this **** up

Go Hornets

After amare the wasn't one single worthy FA to sign, especially after tanking for 3 yrs for the 2010 FA class-

We didn't get our 2nd star in FA from that ever so talented heavy 2010 FA class, so we did the next best thing and traded for one

Picking up billups portion, so they can make sign for tyson, why in the hell the knicks would amnesty Amare 1 yr after signing him, especially since at the time he showed no signs of breaking down.

why would the knicks sign lin with a poison pill contract (just to stick it to morey) after finally getting a little fiscal responsible with their cap.

There wasn't one single available PG better then felton at the time.

It's an unfortunate turn of events, but at the time of these moves, The knicks at little to no real options available. And after tanking for 3 years, what exactly where they suppose to do in 2010, pocket there money and tell fans it was Labron or nothing

Had we held on to some of the assets we gave up for Melo there would have been options. Too either draft players or move the our young assets for better players. We were left with Melo and Amare not fitting and swallowing the cap with little room to improve

But it's in the past- why not hold on to the Curry trade, or the McDyess trade, or the Marbury trade. Not saying you don't Acknowledge the moves you hate, but at some point you need to realise that they happened in the past and move on.

The problem is Melo did it again. Put his money ahead of the team. He even spelled it out before the season even started last year.

Hey if the cap drastically increases and we add another star or two than I will shut up.

Until then Melo is a greedy self absorbed bastard who can't win a ring. Until he proves otherwise that is who he is

Samba did a nice job of explaining what Melo should have taken less actually translates out to on page 2 of this thread.
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=48134&page=2

He only explained the difference in gap between his actual paycut and hypothetical

There have been other threads explaining better what Melo should have taken

What should he have taken? I believe the amount suggested in the thread was 115 mil.

If the cap skyrockets to $80mil it's somewhat moot what he should have taken

If the cap rises to similar trends past few yrs $65-67mil

He should have taken a big enough cut

To allow for 2 less than full max tier players or the 1 true alpha

It obvious he not talented enough to win with comparable rosters

He's had during his career

Therefore he needs to play alongside two players

In the caliber financial bracket of 2 Paul Milsaps[filling out multiple positions]

Looks like these players command salaries between $10-15mil going forward

Exactly. Good luck trying to sign those players and fit them in the cap

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:It started with signing an uninsured Amare to $100M
Then trading every asset for Melo
Picking up Billips potion
Amnestying Billups not Amare
Signing Tyson
Mistreating Lin and letting him walk for nothing
Putting our eggs all on Raymond James Felton

Can't make this **** up

Go Hornets

After amare the wasn't one single worthy FA to sign, especially after tanking for 3 yrs for the 2010 FA class-

We didn't get our 2nd star in FA from that ever so talented heavy 2010 FA class, so we did the next best thing and traded for one

Picking up billups portion, so they can make sign for tyson, why in the hell the knicks would amnesty Amare 1 yr after signing him, especially since at the time he showed no signs of breaking down.

why would the knicks sign lin with a poison pill contract (just to stick it to morey) after finally getting a little fiscal responsible with their cap.

There wasn't one single available PG better then felton at the time.

It's an unfortunate turn of events, but at the time of these moves, The knicks at little to no real options available. And after tanking for 3 years, what exactly where they suppose to do in 2010, pocket there money and tell fans it was Labron or nothing

Had we held on to some of the assets we gave up for Melo there would have been options. Too either draft players or move the our young assets for better players. We were left with Melo and Amare not fitting and swallowing the cap with little room to improve

One first round pick. Maybe an injury exception to sign a guy when Gallo was out for his longest span. Do the knicks resign Gallo, Chandler and Moz. Chandler has missed a lot of games as well. I think the trade is a lot better a few years in. I didn't like the trade at all when it happened.

you let go of wilson chandler obviously. plenty of players like him available. gallo and mozgov not so much. no reason to have to choose between gallinari and mozgov. mozgov is being paid less than 5 million and gallinari is being paid what he is worth, maybe less, since you don't pay people based on their being injury-prone. of course saying that about a 10 million dollar player who is a glue, advanced stat, defending dude in gallo is one thing-- and saying the same about a 24 million dollar player who is none of those things is another, especially one who is 30 years old.

you "think the trade is better a few years in"? the urge to polish turds is very strong with you.

TripleThreat wrote:From a marketing standpoint, Melo is very valuable to the Knicks

From a winning a championship standpoint, Melo is likely a detriment to the Knicks

You can be an elite player but still hurt your team on the field but still be a huge factor in marketing your franchise and getting people to get season tickets/luxury boxes/watch games, etc.

Look at Michael Vick in Atlanta. With the Falcons, he had a lot of deficiencies as a QB1 that would make a true championship run impossible. However he helped the team win enough games to get to the playoffs consistently and he was really marketable to excite the fanbase and get nationally televised games and sell merchandise and tickets.

Consider the Lakers signed a huge local TV contract. They MUST offer some kind of enticing product on the floor to draw in fans and viewer interest. Hence they overpay and resign Kobe Bryant. He ensures they won't contend and can't build a championship roster, but he keeps those season ticket renewals and TV ratings flowing because he's an established name.

Think of any big name actor that you think sucks as his craft. I think Ben Stiller sucks. Some people like him, I don't, but I can see that some people do and that's ok. Either way, for a long time, he made movies where lots of people would see a movie just because he was in it.

You have TWO VALUES as an NBA player.

Your value to your team on a winning level.

And your value in terms of marketing your franchise and individual brand and the entire league.

Melo, IMHO, is FAR more valuable as a marketable player than he is as player capable of being the lynchpin to a contender.

Did you know one of the most viewed players on TV during NFL games in his career was Joey Harrington? While he was a mediocre quarterback, he scored off the charts with the gay demographic. And gays are a desirable marketing demographic because they often present a double income no kids type situation, lots of disposable income.

Melo is VALUABLE to the Knicks for promoting their network. But he's also a low BB IQ shotjacker with ball stopping tendencies that treats defense like herpes and only took a decade to realize he should show up in real shape.

In perspective, IMHO, don't mix one type of VALUE against another.

And again, Jeremy Lin gave the Knicks BOTH VALUES. But they let Melo and CAA drive him away. Good job Dolan, not like there's no value in a BILLION ASIAN VIEWERS AND FANS, IS THERE?

hey but don't worry-- with melo on board knick fans get the poo poo platter every night-- with extra duck sauce

TripleThreat wrote:Melo is VALUABLE to the Knicks for promoting their network. But he's also a low BB IQ shotjacker with ball stopping tendencies that treats defense like herpes and only took a decade to realize he should show up in real shape.

In perspective, IMHO, don't mix one type of VALUE against another.

And again, Jeremy Lin gave the Knicks BOTH VALUES. But they let Melo and CAA drive him away. Good job Dolan, not like there's no value in a BILLION ASIAN VIEWERS AND FANS, IS THERE?

Tell us how you really feel about Melo.

Well I think it's still possible for Melo to make the needed adjustments to his game to make it possible for this team to win big. It's not like you can say Melo lacks the talent. It's very easy to see that Melo has considerable talent and hasn't yet maximized that talent by playing a smarter and more efficient brand of basketball that leverages his teammates as well. That's what Phil and Fish are going to be trying to teach Melo. He seems to be 110% on board with this and is ready to learn.

As a Knick fan i'd think you'd be happy about this. If they're successful in teaching Melo how to win, that would be great for the franchise. No negatives there. The same is true if they can get thru to JR and Bargs. We have players who have failed to maximize their talents but maybe they can get there with the right coaching. It's gonna be very interesting to see what happens.

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:It started with signing an uninsured Amare to $100M
Then trading every asset for Melo
Picking up Billips potion
Amnestying Billups not Amare
Signing Tyson
Mistreating Lin and letting him walk for nothing
Putting our eggs all on Raymond James Felton

Can't make this **** up

Go Hornets

After amare the wasn't one single worthy FA to sign, especially after tanking for 3 yrs for the 2010 FA class-

We didn't get our 2nd star in FA from that ever so talented heavy 2010 FA class, so we did the next best thing and traded for one

Picking up billups portion, so they can make sign for tyson, why in the hell the knicks would amnesty Amare 1 yr after signing him, especially since at the time he showed no signs of breaking down.

why would the knicks sign lin with a poison pill contract (just to stick it to morey) after finally getting a little fiscal responsible with their cap.

There wasn't one single available PG better then felton at the time.

It's an unfortunate turn of events, but at the time of these moves, The knicks at little to no real options available. And after tanking for 3 years, what exactly where they suppose to do in 2010, pocket there money and tell fans it was Labron or nothing

Had we held on to some of the assets we gave up for Melo there would have been options. Too either draft players or move the our young assets for better players. We were left with Melo and Amare not fitting and swallowing the cap with little room to improve

One first round pick. Maybe an injury exception to sign a guy when Gallo was out for his longest span. Do the knicks resign Gallo, Chandler and Moz. Chandler has missed a lot of games as well. I think the trade is a lot better a few years in. I didn't like the trade at all when it happened.

you let go of wilson chandler obviously. plenty of players like him available. gallo and mozgov not so much. no reason to have to choose between gallinari and mozgov. mozgov is being paid less than 5 million and gallinari is being paid what he is worth, maybe less, since you don't pay people based on their being injury-prone. of course saying that about a 10 million dollar player who is a glue, advanced stat, defending dude in gallo is one thing-- and saying the same about a 24 million dollar player who is none of those things is another, especially one who is 30 years old.

you "think the trade is better a few years in"? the urge to polish turds is very strong with you.

moz had a nice year last year but he hadnt accomplished much prior to that and was behind McGee and Kostas the previous season. Gallo has missed more games then he has played in as a Nugget. I guess you could make the argument that the Knicks get a top 5 pick in the past draft if they are waiting for Gallo and hoping amare can play more than 20 minutes a night without needing more knee procedures.

28-26 for that pre-melo knick team and on pace to reach 37 wins and a playoff spot-- even without stoudemire.
36-30 in a strike year-- but no playoffs without lin regardless of melo's late-season performance. no lin no hope.
54-28 with kidd and prigioni as the de facto point guards.
37 wins last year without kidd and a bumbling and impotent woodson "i want to test free agency"
37 wins likely this year

since the melo trade the knicks have basically come full circle having gone nowhere.

but you say the trade has looked better as the years have passed.

what trajectory would the knicks have taken if they had not acquired melo in the manner they did.