Knicksfan wrote:Read this:

One thing I mentioned at the very beginning of this piece is that a larger pay cut might not have changed much for the Knicks. To illustrate that point, we can also take a look at how some commonly suggested pay cuts would have affected the cap sheet. First, the widely requested 5-year, $115 million contract where Melo takes a 7.5% pay decrease in year 2.

Decrease in Year 2

Year_____Amount__________________Raise
2015_____$22,458,401.70__________5.0%
2016_____$20,774,021.57_________-7.5%
2017_____$22,458,401.70__________7.5%
2018_____$24,142,781.83__________7.5%
2019_____$25,827,161.96__________7.5%
Total____$115,660,768.76

Just as with the contract Melo actually took, the foregoing of a maximum increase in 2015-16 leads to less money in each subsequent year. This is what the cap sheet would've looked like:

Renouncing every cap hold for 2015-16 would give the Knicks more than $20 million in space; waiving Pablo would push that number close to $22 million. If New York were to use $19.95 million of that space on Marc Gasol, they would have about $2 million left over. The BAE is projected to be $2.14 million in 2015-16, which means the Knicks would effectively be working with a bit less than the BAE after signing Gasol. The Room Exception is projected at $2.81 million for 2015-16, so the extra $2 million means almost nothing. This contract would also only give the Knicks $3.5 million extra in cap space for 2016-17; that's basically the mini-MLE.

http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2014/7/15/5897135/melo-paycut-effect-on-future-cap

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

Knicks22 wrote:
Houston, Amare, and now this one. Contracts that will cripple the franchise for years....

Seriously?

It is 2M more than the rumored deal and now we are doomed?

no trade and an ETO?

Can some of you just say "damn that sucks"?

You can say that and still think he is a top player.

Why would you think those things would not be in his contract? Why would any player who was offered that much money not have a no trade clause or an ETO? He only looked at a few teams in FA for a reason so to think that he would sign a contract that would allow a team to ship him to Utah, Sac, or etc would be reaching.

Now if you want to talk about the extra 2m then yes that is disappointing. I was still hoping for a deal under 120m but is it crippling I don't think so.

Exactly did does not surprise me one but why would Melo leave the door open for Phil to trade him. The $124 is the number that should be lower if he really wants to win. He took $5m less than max over 5yrs! Wow what a ****ty tipper!!!

Should have taken $110-115. $14mil less than max. His right to take whatever he wanted since he had us by the balls. My right to continue to hate his guts.

Notice yesterday I said my right to remain skeptical of his will to win and character. As of today I hate his guts.

The countdown to 5yrs has begun for me

gunsnewing wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

Knicks22 wrote:
Houston, Amare, and now this one. Contracts that will cripple the franchise for years....

Seriously?

It is 2M more than the rumored deal and now we are doomed?

no trade and an ETO?

Can some of you just say "damn that sucks"?

You can say that and still think he is a top player.

Why would you think those things would not be in his contract? Why would any player who was offered that much money not have a no trade clause or an ETO? He only looked at a few teams in FA for a reason so to think that he would sign a contract that would allow a team to ship him to Utah, Sac, or etc would be reaching.

Now if you want to talk about the extra 2m then yes that is disappointing. I was still hoping for a deal under 120m but is it crippling I don't think so.

Exactly did does not surprise me one but why would Melo leave the door open for Phil to trade him. The $124 is the number that should be lower if he really wants to win. He took $5m less than max over 5yrs! Wow what a ****ty tipper!!!

Should have taken $110-115. $14mil less than max. His right to take whatever he wanted since he had us by the balls. My right to continue to hate his guts.

Notice yesterday I said my right to remain skeptical of his will to win and character. As of today I hate his guts.

The countdown to 5yrs has begun for me

gunsnewing wrote:

Anji wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

Knicks22 wrote:
Houston, Amare, and now this one. Contracts that will cripple the franchise for years....

Seriously?

It is 2M more than the rumored deal and now we are doomed?

no trade and an ETO?

Can some of you just say "damn that sucks"?

You can say that and still think he is a top player.

Why would you think those things would not be in his contract? Why would any player who was offered that much money not have a no trade clause or an ETO? He only looked at a few teams in FA for a reason so to think that he would sign a contract that would allow a team to ship him to Utah, Sac, or etc would be reaching.

Now if you want to talk about the extra 2m then yes that is disappointing. I was still hoping for a deal under 120m but is it crippling I don't think so.

Exactly did does not surprise me one but why would Melo leave the door open for Phil to trade him. The $124 is the number that should be lower if he really wants to win. He took $5m less than max over 5yrs! Wow what a ****ty tipper!!!

Should have taken $110-115. $14mil less than max. His right to take whatever he wanted since he had us by the balls. My right to continue to hate his guts.

Notice yesterday I said my right to remain skeptical of his will to win and character. As of today I hate his guts.

The countdown to 5yrs has begun for me

You hat his guts for cap space lower than the lower level trade exception??? That is beyond irrational...

Huh?

I said I expected a no trade Claus. I'm more down on the amount. He could've taken less especially in 2015/16. I don't even think he is worth $115m but at least it would have given us option to signify you improve.

So, in essence, you hate his guts for 2 million dollars. To make you feel good, Melo should have forgone 15 million dollars, when the knicks get a 2 million dollar exception anyway???

That's just being a dick, and you do reserve that......

gunsnewing wrote:

Anji wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

Knicks22 wrote:
Houston, Amare, and now this one. Contracts that will cripple the franchise for years....

Seriously?

It is 2M more than the rumored deal and now we are doomed?

no trade and an ETO?

Can some of you just say "damn that sucks"?

You can say that and still think he is a top player.

Why would you think those things would not be in his contract? Why would any player who was offered that much money not have a no trade clause or an ETO? He only looked at a few teams in FA for a reason so to think that he would sign a contract that would allow a team to ship him to Utah, Sac, or etc would be reaching.

Now if you want to talk about the extra 2m then yes that is disappointing. I was still hoping for a deal under 120m but is it crippling I don't think so.

Exactly did does not surprise me one but why would Melo leave the door open for Phil to trade him. The $124 is the number that should be lower if he really wants to win. He took $5m less than max over 5yrs! Wow what a ****ty tipper!!!

Should have taken $110-115. $14mil less than max. His right to take whatever he wanted since he had us by the balls. My right to continue to hate his guts.

Notice yesterday I said my right to remain skeptical of his will to win and character. As of today I hate his guts.

The countdown to 5yrs has begun for me

You hat his guts for cap space lower than the lower level trade exception??? That is beyond irrational...

Huh?

I said I expected a no trade Claus. I'm more down on the amount. He could've taken less especially in 2015/16. I don't even think he is worth $115m but at least it would have given us option to signify you improve.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:Read this:

One thing I mentioned at the very beginning of this piece is that a larger pay cut might not have changed much for the Knicks. To illustrate that point, we can also take a look at how some commonly suggested pay cuts would have affected the cap sheet. First, the widely requested 5-year, $115 million contract where Melo takes a 7.5% pay decrease in year 2.

Decrease in Year 2

Year_____Amount__________________Raise
2015_____$22,458,401.70__________5.0%
2016_____$20,774,021.57_________-7.5%
2017_____$22,458,401.70__________7.5%
2018_____$24,142,781.83__________7.5%
2019_____$25,827,161.96__________7.5%
Total____$115,660,768.76

Just as with the contract Melo actually took, the foregoing of a maximum increase in 2015-16 leads to less money in each subsequent year. This is what the cap sheet would've looked like:

Renouncing every cap hold for 2015-16 would give the Knicks more than $20 million in space; waiving Pablo would push that number close to $22 million. If New York were to use $19.95 million of that space on Marc Gasol, they would have about $2 million left over. The BAE is projected to be $2.14 million in 2015-16, which means the Knicks would effectively be working with a bit less than the BAE after signing Gasol. The Room Exception is projected at $2.81 million for 2015-16, so the extra $2 million means almost nothing. This contract would also only give the Knicks $3.5 million extra in cap space for 2016-17; that's basically the mini-MLE.

http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2014/7/15/5897135/melo-paycut-effect-on-future-cap

This article is only relevant to people who think his value to the team is near $124 but maybe slightly less. $115? You're still talking about him being the 2nd highest paid player in the world.

Outrageous!!!

Really?? The whole point of criticizing Melo has been because he isnt looking to win and all he wants is his money. Now that its shown that the discount most people felt more comfortable with wasn't gonna help us much different from his actual deal, the argument is simply that he is the most paid player?

Does that really matter bottom-line? This isn't about LeBron, Bosh, Dirk or anybody else. Think they are all better that the maleficent Melo? Good for you! Keep the hate flowing.

But the point remains to turn the Knicks in a winning team and Phil seems to be confident on doing this with that Melo contract, which again isn't that much of a different help than him taking the 115M deal.

People arguing about Melo taking 30M-40M less are delusional because that would've been a worse contract than the ones available in Chicago, Houston and Los Angeles. Again, LeBron took the highest Max available and is set to make waaay more in 2 years. Bosh took the max. Dirk didn't, he took a big discount, but to compare Dirk on his way out of the league to Melo in his prime is unfair.

gunsnewing wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

Knicks22 wrote:
Houston, Amare, and now this one. Contracts that will cripple the franchise for years....

Seriously?

It is 2M more than the rumored deal and now we are doomed?

no trade and an ETO?

Can some of you just say "damn that sucks"?

You can say that and still think he is a top player.

Why would you think those things would not be in his contract? Why would any player who was offered that much money not have a no trade clause or an ETO? He only looked at a few teams in FA for a reason so to think that he would sign a contract that would allow a team to ship him to Utah, Sac, or etc would be reaching.

Now if you want to talk about the extra 2m then yes that is disappointing. I was still hoping for a deal under 120m but is it crippling I don't think so.

Exactly did does not surprise me one but why would Melo leave the door open for Phil to trade him. The $124 is the number that should be lower if he really wants to win. He took $5m less than max over 5yrs! Wow what a ****ty tipper!!!

Should have taken $110-115. $14mil less than max. His right to take whatever he wanted since he had us by the balls. My right to continue to hate his guts.

Notice yesterday I said my right to remain skeptical of his will to win and character. As of today I hate his guts.

The countdown to 5yrs has begun for me

So that is just your personal pleasure, right? Melo at that price would make you sleep sound at night, even if that contract doesn't help NY any more than his new one does? Is it to say we have Melo at a lower amount than Bosh, so we beat Riley? Or that he is as amazing as hero Lebron, who is getting his max and will in 2 years make more?

Im just trying to focus on the main issue: Melo helping NY win soon. His contract does allow us a max contract next season. He could've taken the whole 129M as it may have been an alternative Phil put. Maybe it wasn't and he just took the most available, but the bottom line will always be: cN the Knicks build a contender after this deal?

We can. Phil seems to keep improving that idea. We are still on the right track.

So why hate Melo now? Simply because he took the closest to the max, even if his contract does help the team the way Phil needed?

Knicksfan wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

Knicks22 wrote:
Houston, Amare, and now this one. Contracts that will cripple the franchise for years....

Seriously?

It is 2M more than the rumored deal and now we are doomed?

no trade and an ETO?

Can some of you just say "damn that sucks"?

You can say that and still think he is a top player.

Why would you think those things would not be in his contract? Why would any player who was offered that much money not have a no trade clause or an ETO? He only looked at a few teams in FA for a reason so to think that he would sign a contract that would allow a team to ship him to Utah, Sac, or etc would be reaching.

Now if you want to talk about the extra 2m then yes that is disappointing. I was still hoping for a deal under 120m but is it crippling I don't think so.

Exactly did does not surprise me one but why would Melo leave the door open for Phil to trade him. The $124 is the number that should be lower if he really wants to win. He took $5m less than max over 5yrs! Wow what a ****ty tipper!!!

Should have taken $110-115. $14mil less than max. His right to take whatever he wanted since he had us by the balls. My right to continue to hate his guts.

Notice yesterday I said my right to remain skeptical of his will to win and character. As of today I hate his guts.

The countdown to 5yrs has begun for me

So that is just your personal pleasure, right? Melo at that price would make you sleep sound at night, even if that contract doesn't help NY any more than his new one does? Is it to say we have Melo at a lower amount than Bosh, so we beat Riley? Or that he is as amazing as hero Lebron, who is getting his max and will in 2 years make more?

Im just trying to focus on the main issue: Melo helping NY win soon. His contract does allow us a max contract next season. He could've taken the whole 129M as it may have been an alternative Phil put. Maybe it wasn't and he just took the most available, but the bottom line will always be: cN the Knicks build a contender after this deal?

We can. Phil seems to keep improving that idea. We are still on the right track.

So why hate Melo now? Simply because he took the closest to the max, even if his contract does help the team the way Phil needed?

According to Nate Silver's article the Knicks paid Melo around what he is worth($122M). I mentioned earlier that in an ESPN Insider article Bradford Doolittle projected his worth to be around $130M over the next 5 yrs.

One of Silver's issues is that you can't pay players their value they need to play above their salary value or be signed at a price less than their actual worth.

The no trade clause is irrelevant because if we suck Melo will want to be traded after the 2015 offseason (if we luck out on FA signings) and after 2016 he becomes untradeable anyways(or at least you'd have to surrender picks).