dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:What are you trying to say exactly? That this team wouldn't be in this situation if Melo didn't force that trade? It's not like we weren't a laughingstock before Melo got here anyway. Had it not been Melo, it would have been someone else. Maybe even Deron Williams....

we were 28-26 and we were not a laughingstock. we were rebuilding. at least deron williams would have been filling a position of need that would fit properly with stoudemire. can't predict injuries.

is melo an innocent victim? just try to answer the question. if you don't answer in yes/no then you are just playing games.

Lol wtf is with the tone? You never asked me that question once. No he's not. I've stated several times that I mainly fault him for not asserting that the Knicks were the only team he wanted to go to and the only team he would sign the extension with. When he kept entertaining the idea of signing with the Nets, it allowed both Denver and Jersey to drive up the price. You happy?

As for the 28-26 team, I was talking in all the accumulated years before Melo got here. We were most certainly a laughing stock. Donnie was supposed to come here and erase that and he ended up making some atrocious trades (some that I believe Crush has pointed out before) and signing Amare and D'antoni. So we were a joke before this, weren't too big of a joke last season, and are now headed towards being a joke once again. You cannot blame all of that on Melo.

cool. so melo helped create the mess here. glad you see it that way. i thought it would end up a mess the minute the trade happened. pissed me off.

donnie was "supposed to" clean up someone else's mess, and he did. he needed two years to do it and most were surprised that it took so little time, the mess was so horrific. in so doing he also tried to create a healthy culture that could germinate and bear fruit.

lbj collusion and plan b? okay so amare comes in and walsh, not having a decent pg to acquire, decided to give felton a two year audition and very little money until an upgrade was available. i liked that plan. i liked the young players we had. i liked that we were 28-26 and a sixth seed. there was something germinal about that team. germinal means fragile, delicate, but with some room for development. and no rebuild is going to be perfect and without blemishes. but the plan was to rebuild and that would not take the first two years of walsh's tenure but rather the next 3-5 years.

the melo trade destroyed all that. he didn't care about what sort of knick team he came to and now the chickens are coming home to roost. **** him!

Donnie was brought here to clear up room for a big name free agent. The focus was always on landing Lebron and pairing him with another big name. Him giving max money to an uninsured Amare after we struck out should say enough about the intentions of the franchise when he was here. Once again, had it not been Melo, those guys would have been shipped off for something else or just let go altogether since they were due for a payday.

you can't know that. i am dealing with facts not conjecture.

so far as walsh's intents with stoudemire, it is not a fact that it was a mistake to acquire him but it is a fact that walsh had to start someplace that summer. why is that a fact? because we all suffered from two years of emptiness and walsh had to reward our patience. it was necessary.

melo's acquisition was not a necessity-- that is a fact.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=46863&page=4

This is what you said the last time we had this discussion. What you said then is different from what you're saying now.

i think the extent of his uninvolvement would be limited to the hiring of the coach and draft picks. just a hunch.

Again, if Walsh was just a puppet put in place to be the frontman for Dolan how come he was only allowed to come back if he took a drastic pay cut.

at first glance i had to question if you were speaking english. then i realized how breathtakingly ridiculous and idiotic it is-- which is why i can't even bother responding.

He certainly put an asterisk on any legacy he had prior to his run in ny when he shed assets and got crushed in every trade he participated in in hopes of winning the LBJ lottery.

the lbj lottery should have been all or nothing. that has dolan's pawprints all over it. no lebron? stay the course another year!

dk7th wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:What are you trying to say exactly? That this team wouldn't be in this situation if Melo didn't force that trade? It's not like we weren't a laughingstock before Melo got here anyway. Had it not been Melo, it would have been someone else. Maybe even Deron Williams....

we were 28-26 and we were not a laughingstock. we were rebuilding. at least deron williams would have been filling a position of need that would fit properly with stoudemire. can't predict injuries.

is melo an innocent victim? just try to answer the question. if you don't answer in yes/no then you are just playing games.

Lol wtf is with the tone? You never asked me that question once. No he's not. I've stated several times that I mainly fault him for not asserting that the Knicks were the only team he wanted to go to and the only team he would sign the extension with. When he kept entertaining the idea of signing with the Nets, it allowed both Denver and Jersey to drive up the price. You happy?

As for the 28-26 team, I was talking in all the accumulated years before Melo got here. We were most certainly a laughing stock. Donnie was supposed to come here and erase that and he ended up making some atrocious trades (some that I believe Crush has pointed out before) and signing Amare and D'antoni. So we were a joke before this, weren't too big of a joke last season, and are now headed towards being a joke once again. You cannot blame all of that on Melo.

cool. so melo helped create the mess here. glad you see it that way. i thought it would end up a mess the minute the trade happened. pissed me off.

donnie was "supposed to" clean up someone else's mess, and he did. he needed two years to do it and most were surprised that it took so little time, the mess was so horrific. in so doing he also tried to create a healthy culture that could germinate and bear fruit.

lbj collusion and plan b? okay so amare comes in and walsh, not having a decent pg to acquire, decided to give felton a two year audition and very little money until an upgrade was available. i liked that plan. i liked the young players we had. i liked that we were 28-26 and a sixth seed. there was something germinal about that team. germinal means fragile, delicate, but with some room for development. and no rebuild is going to be perfect and without blemishes. but the plan was to rebuild and that would not take the first two years of walsh's tenure but rather the next 3-5 years.

the melo trade destroyed all that. he didn't care about what sort of knick team he came to and now the chickens are coming home to roost. **** him!

Donnie was brought here to clear up room for a big name free agent. The focus was always on landing Lebron and pairing him with another big name. Him giving max money to an uninsured Amare after we struck out should say enough about the intentions of the franchise when he was here. Once again, had it not been Melo, those guys would have been shipped off for something else or just let go altogether since they were due for a payday.

you can't know that. i am dealing with facts not conjecture.

so far as walsh's intents with stoudemire, it is not a fact that it was a mistake to acquire him but it is a fact that walsh had to start someplace that summer. why is that a fact? because we all suffered from two years of emptiness and walsh had to reward our patience. it was necessary.

melo's acquisition was not a necessity-- that is a fact.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=46863&page=4

This is what you said the last time we had this discussion. What you said then is different from what you're saying now.

i think the extent of his uninvolvement would be limited to the hiring of the coach and draft picks. just a hunch.

Again, if Walsh was just a puppet put in place to be the frontman for Dolan how come he was only allowed to come back if he took a drastic pay cut.

at first glance i had to question if you were speaking english. then i realized how breathtakingly ridiculous and idiotic it is-- which is why i can't even bother responding.

He certainly put an asterisk on any legacy he had prior to his run in ny when he shed assets and got crushed in every trade he participated in in hopes of winning the LBJ lottery.

the lbj lottery should have been all or nothing. that has dolan's pawprints all over it. no lebron? stay the course another year!Why did you leave the nonsense that you wrote out that I was responding to?

Jmpasq wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:
Where did I say I would be offended by Melo buying into the team plan? I just said it's quite possibly a waste of time and money to even try to get him to buy in. And that's based on reality and having watched him for the last 4 years. I am more concerned with what's best for the Knicks and in my opinion that does not include Melo in it. Let him go take 35 shots a game for some other team. If he buys in I will be happy. But I don't think that will happen.

Whats more likely in his 12th season Melo all of a sudden decides to completely reinvent his game to play defense consistently "Never mind the fact Physically he can't because he is not athletic enough anymore" , He becomes a facilitator, and decides he will be a more efficient scorer. That or he plays the exact same way "A CHUCKER". My guess is he has just enough brilliant scoring outputs to make a population forget he shot 12-33 the night before. Hmmmmmmmm whats it going to be.

I don't hate Melo but his game has to have the correct price tag on it for this team to win. I want to see a championship so bad in NY but overpaying Melo is not the way to do it. I think most Knick fans are scared to let go of Melo thinking 10 years of dark basketball are coming but I dont see that happening. I think Jackson will build this talent base up with young players quickly. One thing im sure of is soon as Melo is signed to a super max deal we have no shot at winning a championship. Even if we land Pau and his brother Marc next year that team is still not good enough to win a championship. The team will be capped out and the only glimmer of hope we will have is somehow we find a franchise player in the draft picking in the 20's.

Well put. This is my exact argument. The last 4 years showed we can't build a contender when he is eating a third of the cap. Now if he was as versatile as Lebron it would be different. But he isn't. People will point to cap space when Amare and Bargs come off, but that won't be enough to find 4 other starters of championship caliber that can also make up for Melo's defensive deficiencies, dictate the pace so the ball doesn't completely stop with Melo, provide balanced scoring so poor Melo doesn't have to take 35 shots, be smart enough to understand and execute the triangle offense in spite of Melo. I mean it's not really possible to do this when Melo make 20M or higher and produces at a lower value. I just can't believe Melo changing his game enough or actually playing defense will happen at this age. I think his game is starting to show early signs of decline. Anything over 15M will lead to bad results.