BRIGGS wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Interesting that Melo favorite KMart is not being given a qualifying offer. If KMart is healthy he is a very good passing big man and seems like he would be a good fit.

Kmart has barely played the last two years--we cannot count on a player who gives 30 games at best--time to move on. We've gotten younger faster and more athletic--we need a new 25 year old Kmart not the 37 year old broken down version.

Andrew wrote:Tkf, let me be brief and to the point. It is not your opinion that is getting a response from Martin, myself now and others. It is how you choose to express it. Both of us have given you many opportunities to correct this, and we are asking one last time that you listen.

so if I came on here every day and said carmelo deserves the max, and he is the greatest player in the NBA that would be ok? actually I bet it would be no problem.. I could say it every day, 5 times a day, in all caps and it wouldn't be a problem...

It is how you choose to express it

how is that andrew, I don't name call, I don't chase posters down, but it has been done to me and a few others... which is why I am confused.. you know what some of the most heated debates I have had so far and I will tell you probably should have gotten me and another poster a warning was in the kevin love thread.. but you know what.. Not one warning.. and you know why? because we were not talking about carmelo and no one gave a damn.....

one thing andrew I will say is everyone can improve, posters and mods.. to tell posters they need to change without changing the way things are modded leads to this mob mentality you see around here..

have a good sunday..

martin wrote:

tkf wrote:

Andrew wrote:Tkf, let me be brief and to the point. It is not your opinion that is getting a response from Martin, myself now and others. It is how you choose to express it. Both of us have given you many opportunities to correct this, and we are asking one last time that you listen.

so if I came on here every day and said carmelo deserves the max, and he is the greatest player in the NBA that would be ok? actually I bet it would be no problem.. I could say it every day, 5 times a day, in all caps and it wouldn't be a problem...

It is how you choose to express it

how is that andrew, I don't name call, I don't chase posters down, but it has been done to me and a few others... which is why I am confused.. you know what some of the most heated debates I have had so far and I will tell you probably should have gotten me and another poster a warning was in the kevin love thread.. but you know what.. Not one warning.. and you know why? because we were not talking about carmelo and no one gave a damn.....

one thing andrew I will say is everyone can improve, posters and mods.. to tell posters they need to change without changing the way things are modded leads to this mob mentality you see around here..

have a good sunday..

what part of "It is not your opinion that is getting a response" but rather "how you choose to express it" did you not understand?

This was a thread about line up with Melo next year - in fact, it's the thread title - and this is your addition to this thread that I was specifically responding to:

tkf wrote:Carmelo is no longer a knick, why can't we discuss the lineups without that dude... it is so hard for some of you guys to move forward.. have you even taken a look to see how many threads there are about carmelo?

I think it would be good to have one thread, all things carmelo and call it a day... jeez

You want this board to not discuss Melo at all and then also complain when you think you can't express your own opposite opinion on the subject. Quite the hypocritical stance.

I asked you quite nicely to stop with that type of posting; if you want to add to the discussion of a thread, please do so, if you want to just come into thread and suggest others should not, you position yourself as wanting to shut down threads that you do not agree with.

With your sarcastic response to Andrew that you think that you need to post about coming here every day to post about Melo being the greatest player in the NBA, you are both missing the point and very deliberately being very stupid.

ok martin so if I said. Briggs that lineup stinks, I hate it because it has carmelo in it. would that be received any differently? that would have been directly responding to his post, and I would not be suggesting that he shut the thread down, which I wasn't.. i was just offering a different direction... again I guess it is cool for you to name call and the example it sets martin.. this is basically cosigning other posters wrong behavior... then again you mod the site so I guess you can do what you want..

but Let me post this link martin, this is a thread about me, where no mod came in to stop it..

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=47678

notice how Bonn tried to come in and help mod the the situation as it wasn't being done, and he then gets trolled by fishmike and it doesn't stop with this..

fishmike wrote:
haha... DK and Bonn have officially become TFK's minions. Good stuff

And here is bonns response:

Have I even addressed TKF in the past few weeks? I agree with mreinman's criticisms of TKF, though I still think TKF is more knowledgeable than many here.

now this a thread that I didn't start, and was allowed to go on for 7 pages martin... can you tell me why? why wasn't it even locked? As a mod there are many things that could have been done. even if you wanted to see me and bonn and dk get attacked, as a mod there are things you can do to protect those feelings while still protecting the board.. one of them would have been simply to just lock the thread.....

You want this board to not discuss Melo at all and then also complain when you think you can't express your own opposite opinion on the subject. Quite the hypocritical stance.

no, I never said that.. I just would like to see the board modded fairly and with balance martin...

here is another thread about a poster actually asking about modding the board, and this didn't come from me..

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=45230&page=1

If possible, maybe somewhere in which we can all see who is logged in and out with time stamped?
It isn't about people who disagree with me, I have no problem with that at all
I am talking about coming up with a solution to STOP unnecessary trolling, attacking of specific members back and forth, and pure bashing on the UK site

this is just not something I am asking for martin...

Again i have said I am willing to make the necessary adjustments martin, I am not trying to put myself on the frontlines of confrontation, I am just asking as others have as well to make some adjustments in the modding and not make it so personal as you have seem to have done.

And I would like to add that thread by enyspree about me was unacceptable, but you know what I understand having a minority opinion is going to be met with some opposition and ribbing and I am cool as long as it doesn't turn into personal attacks.. enyspree didn't personally attack me per say but it was the usual suspects in that that thread and in many others that make it personal and at the very least that thread should have been locked..

I have one more martin.. this was a thread fishmike started with my name in it.. again.. different poster than enyspree...

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=46545&page=3

what I find interesting martin is again Bonn has to come and mod the situation that is not being modded by you guys and remember I didn't start the thread martin.

Bizarre question. It's an interesting topic but it has nothing to do with TKF's comment. Nowhere in the quote you provided did he say that a good way to evaluate an individual player is to look at the record of the 12 man team. Normally "our talent" would mean the talent of the entire roster.

Again Bonn sniffed out the intention of the poster fishmike right away.... again why wasn't this thread locked? you didn't have to come in and scold the poster, all you had to do is lock it and show your presence and show that this will not be tolerated.. meanwhile in the backround you could be laughing and rooting that fishmike tolled me again... that wouldnt matter to me.. because everyone is not going to agree, I am past that. All I ask is for fair modding..

I have have taken up enough time.. this is not what I want to do or subject the board to, but I had to address your post and defend myself..

I could have pulled up many more examples... all I ask is why are you not defending me, bonn and DK, even if you don't agree with us martin? I guarantee you if we are modded fairly you would have the type of forum that you desire.

Have a good sunday...

TKF

dk7th wrote:you have a point about the act of intruding on threads such as this one. if people want to post threads about their fantasies about their favorite max money franchise player who could stop them? i apologize for doing so. i justified my participation based on my interpretation of words and actions of jackson and anthony which is clearly subjective let alone wishful thinking on my part. then again so is the impetus of threads like this one which are holding the opposing interpretation and wish.

BUT

however intrusive he or i have been neither he nor i hurl personal insults at other posters. i thought that this was a big part of the rules of etiquette? disagree if you must but be civil about it. that is the "how" that is not being addressed here. i have found quite often that the best argument other posters have is either personal insults-- sometimes quite mean-spirited-- or <crickets> when they have run out of cogent arguments. by my refraining from this sort of behavior i seem to come across as some sort of snooty elitist know-it-all at best, and god knows what people are thinking at worst.

if i were to permit myself to sink to the level of others here one fear i have is that any behavior in kind would be a convenient excuse to ban me since i hold a rather unpopular opinion. that seems irrational, i know-- but i was banned from realgm for that very reason so there is a precedent. that said, i like rules.

as moderators you are not obliged to support minority opinions, but i'd appreciate it if you made more of an attempt to enforce your rules of conduct to everybody...

fair statement dk7th and I appreciate the feedback and how you have kept your responses in this thread. There is no doubt that Andrew and I cannot mod every post and every thread - this is just realistic and should be understood easily - so we do focus on the highlights and how to best move the entire forum in a sensible direction. We do have etiquette guidelines and those set a direction but not a literal and confined path. There are insults that even the best of friends here on the forums lob each others' way from time to time that we cannot do without as it is part of our everyday (and should be); things would get stale if they weren't both sarcastic and punching fun and all in good natured ribbing. Often they go overboard, and if Andrew and I don't catch it, I would expect and hope that others would chime in; at some level we all need to participate.

dk7th, you seem to have established your own voice quite nicely, why would you care about how others respond if truly they are too low level? Ignore and know you are better for putting out your own opinion and establishing a good sense of what you are talking about; it seems like you have built that confidence already.

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:you have a point about the act of intruding on threads such as this one. if people want to post threads about their fantasies about their favorite max money franchise player who could stop them? i apologize for doing so. i justified my participation based on my interpretation of words and actions of jackson and anthony which is clearly subjective let alone wishful thinking on my part. then again so is the impetus of threads like this one which are holding the opposing interpretation and wish.

BUT

however intrusive he or i have been neither he nor i hurl personal insults at other posters. i thought that this was a big part of the rules of etiquette? disagree if you must but be civil about it. that is the "how" that is not being addressed here. i have found quite often that the best argument other posters have is either personal insults-- sometimes quite mean-spirited-- or <crickets> when they have run out of cogent arguments. by my refraining from this sort of behavior i seem to come across as some sort of snooty elitist know-it-all at best, and god knows what people are thinking at worst.

if i were to permit myself to sink to the level of others here one fear i have is that any behavior in kind would be a convenient excuse to ban me since i hold a rather unpopular opinion. that seems irrational, i know-- but i was banned from realgm for that very reason so there is a precedent. that said, i like rules.

as moderators you are not obliged to support minority opinions, but i'd appreciate it if you made more of an attempt to enforce your rules of conduct to everybody...

fair statement dk7th and I appreciate the feedback and how you have kept your responses in this thread. There is no doubt that Andrew and I cannot mod every post and every thread - this is just realistic and should be understood easily - so we do focus on the highlights and how to best move the entire forum in a sensible direction. We do have etiquette guidelines and those set a direction but not a literal and confined path. There are insults that even the best of friends here on the forums lob each others' way from time to time that we cannot do without as it is part of our everyday (and should be); things would get stale if they weren't both sarcastic and punching fun and all in good natured ribbing. Often they go overboard, and if Andrew and I don't catch it, I would expect and hope that others would chime in; at some level we all need to participate.

dk7th, you seem to have established your own voice quite nicely, why would you care about how others respond if truly they are too low level? Ignore and know you are better for putting out your own opinion and establishing a good sense of what you are talking about; it seems like you have built that confidence already.

nice response martin, but i said the same thing Dk did, except I provided links.. and it wasn't trying to expose anyone, I just wanted to show you that I am not pulling this out of my rear end as others have been asking for the same thing as well.. and I acknowledged in one of my post that you guys can't watch every post, I know martin I used a mod on a board with 10x the traffic... I understand, like DK, all I am asking is that you enforce the rules of conduct to everyone and if you do so, you find that you will have to mod even less..

and just for the record so that things don't come off too personal, you guys have access to everyone's email accounts and if you have an issue with how I post you can email me, as it keeps it off the board and out of the open. And I am not saying that because you are exposing me, but because there are different avenues to explore to reach a resolution.

For example martin you or Andrew seem to have a pretty good hold on the salary cap. Well when we have discussions on paying a certain player max money, or below max, maybe yall could chime in and throw in your knowledge on the cap situation and you know what, your presence alone can calm a situation... I am just offering some advice as a former mod, I don't want to come off as telling you how to run your site... but we all can improve, but it starts from the top martin... thats all..

now back to basketball, I just found out that if we renounce carmelo we can get our full MLE back and drop well below the tax threshold.

or

If we sign and trade him and take back very little BACK, we can generate a huge TPE, which is like cap space

From the chandler felton trade phil generated a small TPE..

And as we know flexibility is huge as we don't know who may become available...

newyorknewyork wrote:

Anji wrote:I'm just being sarcastic, I agree about the Dallas model personally, continue adding to a system and building the team up.

I really would like to see the computations that Bonn and DK7 run, we need to get those to Phil before he signs Melo to 1 dollar more then he should......and if we have enough time, we should go fix moreys computer. It obviously needs an upgrade.

newyorknewyork wrote:

Same as Anji you guys expect a team to be an immediate championship calibre team first yr assembled or its a failure. Again unrealistic, you seem to believe either you rebuild or you are a championship team but it doesn't work that way.

I kind of figured you were being sarcastic but wasn't sure, because that Jason Terry comment was off the wall lol.

That line threw me completely as well. I almost went to look up Jason Terry's stat lines...

BigDaddyG wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Anji wrote:I'm just being sarcastic, I agree about the Dallas model personally, continue adding to a system and building the team up.

I really would like to see the computations that Bonn and DK7 run, we need to get those to Phil before he signs Melo to 1 dollar more then he should......and if we have enough time, we should go fix moreys computer. It obviously needs an upgrade.

newyorknewyork wrote:

Same as Anji you guys expect a team to be an immediate championship calibre team first yr assembled or its a failure. Again unrealistic, you seem to believe either you rebuild or you are a championship team but it doesn't work that way.

I kind of figured you were being sarcastic but wasn't sure, because that Jason Terry comment was off the wall lol.

IMO I would look to buy low on an Eric Gordon and depending on the Gasol situation David Lee as well only if we are able to bring Melo back. Sure they don't make us a championship team but they are productive players with flexible 2 yr contracts. We would be a playoff team and we could possibly use there value as productive expirings at the deadline in 2015-16 to contenders for future assets or look to resign them to cap friendly deals giving the team productive value role players on cap friendly deals.

I'd rather look into trying to obtain Jeff Teague. I've read that there is a decent chance the Hawks move him. Teague has his faults, but he does a decent job of defending his position.

We just trade for Calderon and Teague's value will be to high. We should be looking to buy low right now.

We traded for Calderon, but...we still need to upgrade the position. Calderon isn't a guy who can be depended to play more than 30 minutes a night due to his defense. I'm not sure what Teague's value is, but I know he has a lower annual salary than Gordon. Plus, ATL has Schroeder. They may feel it's time to hand the reins I've to him. There were talks of a Shump for League trade last season. That's something we should revisit.

You've got Prigs, you've got the Larkin yoot, maybe you get something unexpected out of summer league. You need more than that to back up Calderon's missing 18 minutes a night?

tkf wrote:

martin wrote:

tkf wrote:

Andrew wrote:Tkf, let me be brief and to the point. It is not your opinion that is getting a response from Martin, myself now and others. It is how you choose to express it. Both of us have given you many opportunities to correct this, and we are asking one last time that you listen.

so if I came on here every day and said carmelo deserves the max, and he is the greatest player in the NBA that would be ok? actually I bet it would be no problem.. I could say it every day, 5 times a day, in all caps and it wouldn't be a problem...

It is how you choose to express it

how is that andrew, I don't name call, I don't chase posters down, but it has been done to me and a few others... which is why I am confused.. you know what some of the most heated debates I have had so far and I will tell you probably should have gotten me and another poster a warning was in the kevin love thread.. but you know what.. Not one warning.. and you know why? because we were not talking about carmelo and no one gave a damn.....

one thing andrew I will say is everyone can improve, posters and mods.. to tell posters they need to change without changing the way things are modded leads to this mob mentality you see around here..

have a good sunday..

what part of "It is not your opinion that is getting a response" but rather "how you choose to express it" did you not understand?

This was a thread about line up with Melo next year - in fact, it's the thread title - and this is your addition to this thread that I was specifically responding to:

tkf wrote:Carmelo is no longer a knick, why can't we discuss the lineups without that dude... it is so hard for some of you guys to move forward.. have you even taken a look to see how many threads there are about carmelo?

I think it would be good to have one thread, all things carmelo and call it a day... jeez

You want this board to not discuss Melo at all and then also complain when you think you can't express your own opposite opinion on the subject. Quite the hypocritical stance.

I asked you quite nicely to stop with that type of posting; if you want to add to the discussion of a thread, please do so, if you want to just come into thread and suggest others should not, you position yourself as wanting to shut down threads that you do not agree with.

With your sarcastic response to Andrew that you think that you need to post about coming here every day to post about Melo being the greatest player in the NBA, you are both missing the point and very deliberately being very stupid.

ok martin so if I said. Briggs that lineup stinks, I hate it because it has carmelo in it. would that be received any differently? that would have been directly responding to his post, and I would not be suggesting that he shut the thread down, which I wasn't.. i was just offering a different direction... again I guess it is cool for you to name call and the example it sets martin.. this is basically cosigning other posters wrong behavior... then again you mod the site so I guess you can do what you want..

but Let me post this link martin, this is a thread about me, where no mod came in to stop it..

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=47678

notice how Bonn tried to come in and help mod the the situation as it wasn't being done, and he then gets trolled by fishmike and it doesn't stop with this..

fishmike wrote:
haha... DK and Bonn have officially become TFK's minions. Good stuff

And here is bonns response:

Have I even addressed TKF in the past few weeks? I agree with mreinman's criticisms of TKF, though I still think TKF is more knowledgeable than many here.

now this a thread that I didn't start, and was allowed to go on for 7 pages martin... can you tell me why? why wasn't it even locked? As a mod there are many things that could have been done. even if you wanted to see me and bonn and dk get attacked, as a mod there are things you can do to protect those feelings while still protecting the board.. one of them would have been simply to just lock the thread.....

You want this board to not discuss Melo at all and then also complain when you think you can't express your own opposite opinion on the subject. Quite the hypocritical stance.

no, I never said that.. I just would like to see the board modded fairly and with balance martin...

here is another thread about a poster actually asking about modding the board, and this didn't come from me..

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=45230&page=1

If possible, maybe somewhere in which we can all see who is logged in and out with time stamped?
It isn't about people who disagree with me, I have no problem with that at all
I am talking about coming up with a solution to STOP unnecessary trolling, attacking of specific members back and forth, and pure bashing on the UK site

this is just not something I am asking for martin...

Again i have said I am willing to make the necessary adjustments martin, I am not trying to put myself on the frontlines of confrontation, I am just asking as others have as well to make some adjustments in the modding and not make it so personal as you have seem to have done.

And I would like to add that thread by enyspree about me was unacceptable, but you know what I understand having a minority opinion is going to be met with some opposition and ribbing and I am cool as long as it doesn't turn into personal attacks.. enyspree didn't personally attack me per say but it was the usual suspects in that that thread and in many others that make it personal and at the very least that thread should have been locked..

I have one more martin.. this was a thread fishmike started with my name in it.. again.. different poster than enyspree...

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=46545&page=3

what I find interesting martin is again Bonn has to come and mod the situation that is not being modded by you guys and remember I didn't start the thread martin.

Bizarre question. It's an interesting topic but it has nothing to do with TKF's comment. Nowhere in the quote you provided did he say that a good way to evaluate an individual player is to look at the record of the 12 man team. Normally "our talent" would mean the talent of the entire roster.

e

Again Bonn sniffed out the intention of the poster fishmike right away.... again why wasn't this thread locked? you didn't have to come in and scold the poster, all you had to do is lock it and show your presence and show that this will not be tolerated.. meanwhile in the backround you could be laughing and rooting that fishmike tolled me again... that wouldnt matter to me.. because everyone is not going to agree, I am past that. All I ask is for fair modding..

I have have taken up enough time.. this is not what I want to do or subject the board to, but I had to address your post and defend myself..

I could have pulled up many more examples... all I ask is why are you not defending me, bonn and DK, even if you don't agree with us martin? I guarantee you if we are modded fairly you would have the type of forum that you desire.

Have a good sunday...

TKF

I for one also hope Andrew and martin had a good sunday.

Funny, no other poster has to have three pages of explaining to the mods how to mod...

jrodmc wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Dallas Mavs traded for Antoine Walker and Antoine Jamison in dirt cheap value deals buying low. That didn't make them a championship team yet both these moves lead to future moves that built Dallas championship core.

Walker's value was then flipped for Jason Terry
Jamison value was flipped for a top 5 pick Devin Harris who was then flipped for Jason Kidd.

This is great hindsight logic. Everyone just knew Jason Kidd had enough left in the tank and Jason Terry was the missing SG necessary to get a chip 6 years after getting him from the Hawks.

This is like saying every piece of dust can and will evolve into a monkey if you give it enough time...

Jrodmc your posting is to advanced for my simple mind. I can't tell if you agree with me and are being sarcastic or you disagree with what I am saying.