Bonn1997 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:it's what he is worth to the knicks, always was, always will be. he was grossly overpaid the first time around, never mind the assets given up for him. you can't pay that much for a one-way player! now look at the knicks. he owes the knicks a significant pay cut. 12-14 million is about right for the knicks to pay him if he wants to remain part of the franchise. he remains a one-way player.

That false sense of entitlement is really gonna kill your credibility. There's a difference between wanting him to take less (which a lot of us do) and thinking he's obligated to take less because he "owes" the Knicks.

my credibility is going to be just fine. he's a one-way player. now justify his worth to the knicks based on that FACT.

I'm not talking about his worth. I'm clearly talking about you thinking he owes the knicks, or any team, anything. I don't know why you keep trying to steer all topics to what Melo should be paid. I'm not talking about that and have already stated that I agree with you that I want him to take less. I disagree that he owes it to me though just because I'm a knick fan.

i am thinking of what is fair, reasonable, just, and ethical. you are thinking of what melo thinks he should be getting paid, which is informed by NONE of those things.

owing and getting paid are two sides of the same coin. it takes a major case of ignorance to try and keep them separate.

No, you're projecting what you want him to do onto this belief that would paint him in a bad light if he didn't adhere to it. Just, ethics, fairness - they're all of matter of your opinion at the end of the stay with the way you state them, seeing as how it's been pointed out that you change the rules for certain players.

And the way you put, they're not on the same coin. If Melo wants to stay with the Knicks, Jackson has said that it'd be wise and beneficial for him to take a pay cut. He has never said that he owes it to anyone. That's your sense of entitlement.

who, exactly, has pointed out that i change the rules? is it someone who has divergent values from my own? if it is, then why hide behind that?

i say if anyone has been operating from a sense of entitlement it's carmelo anthony. do you know what it means to overvalue yourself? it means you feel OWED.

Overvaluing yourself and wanting the most money you can get are different things. Monta Ellis "have it all" is overvaluing himself. Carmelo's "I didn't wanna be stuck in limbo with the impending lockout" just wanted to get the most money he could.

he has been a non-contender his entire career but one. time to take a huge salary hit to stay in new york since they are in worse shape than other teams he might be interested in. hence if he takes what he is actually worth to the knicks they can build a winner sooner.

or he can take a little more money to play for a team closer than the knicks already and perhaps win sooner. either scenario he is not going to get the most money available and that is a good thing.

and that one year he had a top 5 MVP candidate teammate.

Yup, the 27/6/5 he averaged that year in the playoffs had nothing to do with it....lol.

Anji wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:it's what he is worth to the knicks, always was, always will be. he was grossly overpaid the first time around, never mind the assets given up for him. you can't pay that much for a one-way player! now look at the knicks. he owes the knicks a significant pay cut. 12-14 million is about right for the knicks to pay him if he wants to remain part of the franchise. he remains a one-way player.

That false sense of entitlement is really gonna kill your credibility. There's a difference between wanting him to take less (which a lot of us do) and thinking he's obligated to take less because he "owes" the Knicks.

my credibility is going to be just fine. he's a one-way player. now justify his worth to the knicks based on that FACT.

I'm not talking about his worth. I'm clearly talking about you thinking he owes the knicks, or any team, anything. I don't know why you keep trying to steer all topics to what Melo should be paid. I'm not talking about that and have already stated that I agree with you that I want him to take less. I disagree that he owes it to me though just because I'm a knick fan.

i am thinking of what is fair, reasonable, just, and ethical. you are thinking of what melo thinks he should be getting paid, which is informed by NONE of those things.

owing and getting paid are two sides of the same coin. it takes a major case of ignorance to try and keep them separate.

No, you're projecting what you want him to do onto this belief that would paint him in a bad light if he didn't adhere to it. Just, ethics, fairness - they're all of matter of your opinion at the end of the stay with the way you state them, seeing as how it's been pointed out that you change the rules for certain players.

And the way you put, they're not on the same coin. If Melo wants to stay with the Knicks, Jackson has said that it'd be wise and beneficial for him to take a pay cut. He has never said that he owes it to anyone. That's your sense of entitlement.

who, exactly, has pointed out that i change the rules? is it someone who has divergent values from my own? if it is, then why hide behind that?

i say if anyone has been operating from a sense of entitlement it's carmelo anthony. do you know what it means to overvalue yourself? it means you feel OWED.

Overvaluing yourself and wanting the most money you can get are different things. Monta Ellis "have it all" is overvaluing himself. Carmelo's "I didn't wanna be stuck in limbo with the impending lockout" just wanted to get the most money he could.

he has been a non-contender his entire career but one. time to take a huge salary hit to stay in new york since they are in worse shape than other teams he might be interested in. hence if he takes what he is actually worth to the knicks they can build a winner sooner.

or he can take a little more money to play for a team closer than the knicks already and perhaps win sooner. either scenario he is not going to get the most money available and that is a good thing.

and that one year he had a top 5 MVP candidate teammate.

Yup, the 27/6/5 he averaged that year in the playoffs had nothing to do with it....lol.

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Well I knew that Melo gets 5 assists in a game maybe once a month. So it didn't sound right. I'm actually surprised he averaged 4.

well he did avg 5 ast in his first series in NY. I rounded up from 4.8. Unfortunately he shot the ball terribly but did avg 11 rebs.

yellowboy90 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Lebron did more with A LOT less. Now I know Lebron is otherworldly but you get the idea. Melo is do to make $129m. $30m per. Do you pay him if u are Phil?

I am not phil but if Phil paid him will you still think of him as a smart visionary team builder? Will you blame Melo? I know the answer to that. Strike the max off the table if Phil pays him more than what you think he is worth what will you think? Would it matter if other teams where willing to pay him the same?

I think the problem is the salary cap makes it very hard to build a championship team if you are paying max money to 1-2 guys and we all know you probably need 2 all stars plus a legit supporting cast.

Melo is heading into the downside of his career. By the end of this next contract he may be like Amare - we already know he has shoulder problems and he tends to play heavy minutes and gets banged up.

We need his talent but at what cost? All of us have seen the Knicks do this before, they overpay and then can't build a proper team so they end up making panic moves and wallow in mediocrity. I just don't want to see that happen again.

Amare and Bargs really screwed us by opting in. I know it's their right because it's in their contracts and the money is crazy but I hope the Knicks have learned something from all of this: if you give a superstar an opt out they will take it, and if you give a player an opt in it is risky should they become injury prone or play like a bum. I would rather see the teams have the rights to exercise options than the power be in the players hands, but I guess it becomes a negotiating issue.

gunsnewing wrote:It's interesting but I killed Dantoni at the time. Now June 28, 2014 I kinda wish melo had bought in. We would e probably won over 37 games last year. If when Melo came back from injury he accepted his role we'd be better off today but he did not want to relinquish the big kahuna status.

It is what it is.
Not a big deal

I have no problem starting over even if it take a few years to become competitive. I want to build a sustainable winner. Me & fish have gotten Into arguments but I am right. Because quite family I'm always right.

Best way to build a sustainable winner?

Add and keep elite talent
use the draft EVERY year so the pipeline is rich
Pay your stars, dont overpay your role players

Remember, as bad as Houston's contract was what really set us back was paying guys like Anderson, Eisley and Spoon. At least when healthy H2O was a good scorer. Those other guys were roster cloggers that kept us from doing anything. Im pretty sure if the Mavs, Bulls, Rockets and Lakers are all pining for your guy if you keep him is always tradable no?

jrodmc wrote:

Anji wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

dk7th wrote:it's what he is worth to the knicks, always was, always will be. he was grossly overpaid the first time around, never mind the assets given up for him. you can't pay that much for a one-way player! now look at the knicks. he owes the knicks a significant pay cut. 12-14 million is about right for the knicks to pay him if he wants to remain part of the franchise. he remains a one-way player.

That false sense of entitlement is really gonna kill your credibility. There's a difference between wanting him to take less (which a lot of us do) and thinking he's obligated to take less because he "owes" the Knicks.

my credibility is going to be just fine. he's a one-way player. now justify his worth to the knicks based on that FACT.

I'm not talking about his worth. I'm clearly talking about you thinking he owes the knicks, or any team, anything. I don't know why you keep trying to steer all topics to what Melo should be paid. I'm not talking about that and have already stated that I agree with you that I want him to take less. I disagree that he owes it to me though just because I'm a knick fan.

i am thinking of what is fair, reasonable, just, and ethical. you are thinking of what melo thinks he should be getting paid, which is informed by NONE of those things.

owing and getting paid are two sides of the same coin. it takes a major case of ignorance to try and keep them separate.

No, you're projecting what you want him to do onto this belief that would paint him in a bad light if he didn't adhere to it. Just, ethics, fairness - they're all of matter of your opinion at the end of the stay with the way you state them, seeing as how it's been pointed out that you change the rules for certain players.

And the way you put, they're not on the same coin. If Melo wants to stay with the Knicks, Jackson has said that it'd be wise and beneficial for him to take a pay cut. He has never said that he owes it to anyone. That's your sense of entitlement.

who, exactly, has pointed out that i change the rules? is it someone who has divergent values from my own? if it is, then why hide behind that?

i say if anyone has been operating from a sense of entitlement it's carmelo anthony. do you know what it means to overvalue yourself? it means you feel OWED.

Overvaluing yourself and wanting the most money you can get are different things. Monta Ellis "have it all" is overvaluing himself. Carmelo's "I didn't wanna be stuck in limbo with the impending lockout" just wanted to get the most money he could.

he has been a non-contender his entire career but one. time to take a huge salary hit to stay in new york since they are in worse shape than other teams he might be interested in. hence if he takes what he is actually worth to the knicks they can build a winner sooner.

or he can take a little more money to play for a team closer than the knicks already and perhaps win sooner. either scenario he is not going to get the most money available and that is a good thing.

and that one year he had a top 5 MVP candidate teammate.

Yup, the 27/6/54 he averaged that year in the playoffs had nothing to do with it....lol.

Never forget, Melo's production never has anything to do with anything other than his dinosaur way of playing basketball. And 4 assists per game is useless at either the 3 or the 4. Shoot, don't you know what CP3 averages?

And who couldn't average 5 or 6 dimes a game passing to the likes of Fishlips, Landry Fields, Toney Douglas and Ray Felton? Or the invisible Amare/Bargs/Chandler combo?

jackson does not think primitively by relying on empty-calorie stats. how did he get those numbers? and are they the numbers he will be relying on in assessing how much he may be willing to pay a 2.5 option?

EwingsGlass wrote:If Melo asked for a sign and trade, I would give it to him if it made us better and didn't hurt our financial flexibility.

Let me ask a couple dream land questions:

1) If Lebron and Carmelo get inebriated and make the decision that they wanted to simply trade places -- meaning Melo goes to Miami and Lebron goes to NY, is there a sign and trade scenario that makes that work where both get max contracts?

2) Assume Carmelo signs for the max in Phoenix and we get no compensation, what type of free agent would be be able to sign outright?

3) Assume Carmelo wants to sign in a city that does not have cap space -- are we allowed to take back the full salary of Melo, given our cap situation?

(with the $3mm give or take they have to spend)

Should be no problem filling in the 28/8/3 you get for that

yellowboy90 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:If Melo asked for a sign and trade, I would give it to him if it made us better and didn't hurt our financial flexibility.

Let me ask a couple dream land questions:

1) If Lebron and Carmelo get inebriated and make the decision that they wanted to simply trade places -- meaning Melo goes to Miami and Lebron goes to NY, is there a sign and trade scenario that makes that work where both get max contracts?

2) Assume Carmelo signs for the max in Phoenix and we get no compensation, what type of free agent would be be able to sign outright?

3) Assume Carmelo wants to sign in a city that does not have cap space -- are we allowed to take back the full salary of Melo, given our cap situation?

If Melo walks for no comp the Knicks can than sign any FA they want.

(with the $3mm give or take they have to spend)

Should be no problem filling in the 28/8/3 you get for that

I expect they would make some quick trades to free up $10+m (Shump/JR/Larkin then cut dalembert) so they can get a piece this year. They would still be under the apron so they would have the full MLE and the BAE to use. Throw the 7-10M at Parsons/Heyward/Stevenson/Bledsoe. The problem is that most of those players will get matched. Oh well. Give Patty Mills the full MLE

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2005037-projecting-ny-knicks-2014-free-agency-big-board#articles/2005037-projecting-ny-knicks-2014-free-agency-big-board

Best KNicks can offer anyone is about $3mm a year to start. Paddy Mills at the full MLE out of our price range.

Melo sells tickets. People watch Melo on TV. That makes him worth money.

Y'all can argue the shyt out of the rest of it. Dude is Mike Vick but withtout the Dogs. He is Barry Saunders, he is ARod, etc........

He is a "Star".........

He got a choice. If he leaves to join a better roster he takes pay cut. Way I figure why not do that than take a paycut and stay in NY?
But if he don't win, or DRose gets hurt, or Dwight gets a yest infection, he is stuck making less in a city he don't want to be in.
If he max's out here its all good until he is traded like Ewing and looks bloated in his Magic uniform and sad.

What will he do??? What will he do??