tkf wrote:foosballnick wrote:fishmike wrote:foosballnick wrote:tkf wrote:dk7th wrote:tkf wrote:foosballnick wrote:TKF,I'm sorry but the argument you are presenting does not appear to be logical.
You made a claim in this thread that Melo has Damaged the Knicks by being here. And backed that claim up by stating that he was responsible for essentially being the Knicks GM by forcing himself here and trading himself to the Knicks for assets. o
Here's the problem with this argument. The Knicks (Dolan/Walsh) were not forced to trade for Melo, they were the ones who agreed to the trade with Denver. If Melo did not want to wait for Free Agency....they could have went in a different direction. You can not assign blame to Melo for a decision that was made by Dolan. If you want to assign blame to Dolan for where the team is with regards to roster, cap space and picks, then you have a point.
Secondly - the Knicks are essentially the same franchise they were prior to Melo arriving. One could even argue that they had better in season results and achieved the playoffs more often with Melo then without him. So I am hard pressed to understand how he has damaged the Knicks.
I explained that.. he was a co conspirator with dolan. If you just see him as some innocent bystander then really I can't help you.
let me ask you this. did carmelo have nanything to do with how he got here? answer that first...
no melo is an innocent victim who was pulled into the evil dolan vortex and now he is being martyred because the franchise he so badly wanted to play for has betrayed him by not properly building around him.
honestly the degree of infantilizing around here of this douche is disturbing
it is very disturbing. No one around here gets that kind of rope.. yet we hear the excuse now. "well I root for whoever is on this team"... I will keep that in mind the next time the felton and tyson chandler bashing starts...
No one will accept that carmelo helped Denver get a better deal than they probably should have, and he allowed the nets to drive the price up on the knicks. I think that was just cowardly and disloyal to a team that you were trying to come to.... yes he is a douche...
So essentially when your argument is weak, you guys resort to name calling.
Melo wanted to come to the Knicks and also wanted to avoid Free Agency. So what. That still does not make him culpable for any of the assets that the Knicks sent in order to obtain him. Dolan coveted Melo and was willing to part with a bunch of players and picks to obtain him. If Dolan did not want Melo on the Knicks, it would not have mattered in any way what Melo did or said during that period of time. You can continue to manufacture subjective opinions of why everyone should despise a player. You can also continue to say ugly things about another person that you don't even know.....that just makes you appear to be ugly inside as well. If t, ithat's how you want to be thought of on this board.....great.
I'm done with this thread. If you want to claim victory in how much damage Melo has done to the Knicks.....go for it.
every now and then someone actually addresses TFK's comments seriously. Let this be a lesson.
I'll break my word on being done with this thread just to respond to Fish's post. I intentionally tried to keep my comments with TKF serious and professional without engaging in name-calling to see where it would go. Predictably it went to the same place it always seems to do......TKF posting something condescending by thinking he is smarter and teaching us a lesson because "we seem confused". Not really a big deal, the super insecure apparently need to continually talk about how superior they are in order to make themselves feel better.
so instead of defending your argument.. you are going to take the bailout that I called carmelo a douche.. I didn't call you a nane at all. you see what you are doing is bailing out.. and I understand, you have yet to answer any of mine or DK's questions regarding carmelo and his role in this mess...
I find it odd that you are so offended that I called carmelo a "name", yet DK and i have been called all types of names and we didn't cost the knicks any draft picks or money..
I'm not offended by your name calling. It's difficult to have a reasonable discussion with you because you resort to name calling (such as Melo is a douche, clown, small minded, arrogant etc) which both detracts and distracts from any forum discussion. Further, you are attempting to pull the discussion in a direction where there are no known facts, only subjective opinions. There is no way any of us know about the extent or details of Melo's involvement in any trade discussions with Denver. You are demanding an answer from me to this question, when you don't know the answer yourself.
You're saying that I bailed out instead of defending my argument or answering your question.
You asked about the extent of Melo's involvement in the trade discussions - my answer is I don't know.....and neither do you. You choose to use your opinion on this question as if it were a fact, in order to try and defend your point. It is impossible to have a reasonable discussion with someone who believes that their opinions are facts.
You contend that Melo damaged the Knicks mainly because of the trade and the assets he forced Dolan to trade for himself while he was still on the Nuggets. You also contend that Melo is to blame for not becoming a Free Agent and signing with the Knicks.
I contend that Dolan was solely responsible for any trade damage - and since we do not know the inner workings of Melo's involvement, we can not factually assign blame to him. I also contend that Melo had the right to become a free agent, just as Dolan had the right and power to not trade with Denver and take a pass on Melo (or take his chances if Melo entered free agency).
Further - I contend that the Knicks performance on the court after Melo arrived produced better results during the regular season as well as more frequent playoff appearances than the 3-10 years prior to his arrival. I also contend that neither before nor after Melo's arrival - where the Knicks a Championship caliber team.
So in summary.......
Dolan was responsible for trading away assets
Knicks performance was better after Melo arrived
Knicks revenue was better after Melo arrived
Knicks championship chances were not obtainable either before/after Melo
Melo seems to have had a net positive result for the Knicks.....and you are claiming that he damaged the franchise solely based upon you placing Melo above Dolan in the Knicks decision making hierarchy.....while he was still with the Nuggets.
Your response to all of this was....."so you believe Melo was an innocent bystander....blah blah blah". The question you ask has little or nothing to do with the point you are trying to defend. Whether or not (nor the extent that) Melo was involved in the trade discussions for himself is a moot point. Dolan is the decision maker with the Knicks....and fully accountable for what assets get shipped out in trades etc.
So continue to try and convince everyone that people bail out of conversations with you because you are so smart or they are so confused. You continue to obfuscate any reasonable dialog because you have a habit of presenting opinions as facts, talking in circles and using expletives to detract from the subject matter.
6/20/2014 2:11 PM