dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Any other team would've traded Gallo, Wilson and a pick and it would've been enough. We were forced to include Mozgov and multiple draft picks because we are the Knicks and trading with Dolan elevates your status as GM. Ujiri is a basketball God now thanks to us

Just look at the CP3 trade, Dwight trade, and Harden trade. Definitely not true.

I would argue all of those guys are not only younger but better than carmelo..so, maybe justified...

Melo was 26 at the time of the trade. Same age range with everyone except Harden, who was far less proven. Toss in the DWill trade too. We traded what the market value for a player of Melo's caliber was. And most of those players we traded all became injury-prone did not improve.

wait moz didn't improve? gallo didn't improve. I think that team won a franchise record 57 wins.. sorry, I don't buy that... also have to count in the 2 first round picks, two second round picks, eddy curry's expiring and we gave up a lot more.. sorry using the did not improve argument doesn't work? did carmelo improve? better yet, did the knicks improve? looking at our situation now, I would say a big HELL NO... Here is what we do know, those guys best years are still ahead of them. same can't be said of carmelo and on top of that, they are under contract... while we have a guy trying to hold the knicks hostage after leading them to the lottery...

And it also goes back to this... Paul, Harden and Dwight are better players...

We did improve. Then took a step back. Now we have cap space coming up. A natural cycle. We didn't reach our goals, but still improved over the short term. Denver is stuck right now with a lot of long-term contracts for players who can't stay healthy. Many ways to look at this. I see it much different from you.

trading for this idiot yanked us into win-now mode, and the smoldering ashes that this idiot came to was what he had to work with. natural cycles occur when you have a plan and you stick with a plan, upgrading by positions of need and not simply acquiring talent for its own sake, especially iverrated and redundant talent.

Same old tag team non-sense here. No point in arguing.

it was your nonsense that spurred me to respond:

1) we paid market value for carmelo anthony
2) they took a step back and we improved

I never said they took a step back. Please read carefully. "Then took a step back" as in "we took a step back this season."

"We did improve (2012/2013). Then took a step back (2013/2014)." Get it now?

Knixkik wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Any other team would've traded Gallo, Wilson and a pick and it would've been enough. We were forced to include Mozgov and multiple draft picks because we are the Knicks and trading with Dolan elevates your status as GM. Ujiri is a basketball God now thanks to us

Just look at the CP3 trade, Dwight trade, and Harden trade. Definitely not true.

I would argue all of those guys are not only younger but better than carmelo..so, maybe justified...

Melo was 26 at the time of the trade. Same age range with everyone except Harden, who was far less proven. Toss in the DWill trade too. We traded what the market value for a player of Melo's caliber was. And most of those players we traded all became injury-prone did not improve.

wait moz didn't improve? gallo didn't improve. I think that team won a franchise record 57 wins.. sorry, I don't buy that... also have to count in the 2 first round picks, two second round picks, eddy curry's expiring and we gave up a lot more.. sorry using the did not improve argument doesn't work? did carmelo improve? better yet, did the knicks improve? looking at our situation now, I would say a big HELL NO... Here is what we do know, those guys best years are still ahead of them. same can't be said of carmelo and on top of that, they are under contract... while we have a guy trying to hold the knicks hostage after leading them to the lottery...

And it also goes back to this... Paul, Harden and Dwight are better players...

We did improve. Then took a step back. Now we have cap space coming up. A natural cycle. We didn't reach our goals, but still improved over the short term. Denver is stuck right now with a lot of long-term contracts for players who can't stay healthy. Many ways to look at this. I see it much different from you.

trading for this idiot yanked us into win-now mode, and the smoldering ashes that this idiot came to was what he had to work with. natural cycles occur when you have a plan and you stick with a plan, upgrading by positions of need and not simply acquiring talent for its own sake, especially iverrated and redundant talent.

Same old tag team non-sense here. No point in arguing.

it was your nonsense that spurred me to respond:

1) we paid market value for carmelo anthony
2) they took a step back and we improved

I never said they took a step back. Please read carefully. "Then took a step back" as in "we took a step back this season."

"We did improve (2012/2013). Then took a step back (2013/2014)." Get it now?

still doesn't make what we have witnesses a "natural cycle" not by a long shot.

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Any other team would've traded Gallo, Wilson and a pick and it would've been enough. We were forced to include Mozgov and multiple draft picks because we are the Knicks and trading with Dolan elevates your status as GM. Ujiri is a basketball God now thanks to us

Just look at the CP3 trade, Dwight trade, and Harden trade. Definitely not true.

I would argue all of those guys are not only younger but better than carmelo..so, maybe justified...

Melo was 26 at the time of the trade. Same age range with everyone except Harden, who was far less proven. Toss in the DWill trade too. We traded what the market value for a player of Melo's caliber was. And most of those players we traded all became injury-prone did not improve.

wait moz didn't improve? gallo didn't improve. I think that team won a franchise record 57 wins.. sorry, I don't buy that... also have to count in the 2 first round picks, two second round picks, eddy curry's expiring and we gave up a lot more.. sorry using the did not improve argument doesn't work? did carmelo improve? better yet, did the knicks improve? looking at our situation now, I would say a big HELL NO... Here is what we do know, those guys best years are still ahead of them. same can't be said of carmelo and on top of that, they are under contract... while we have a guy trying to hold the knicks hostage after leading them to the lottery...

And it also goes back to this... Paul, Harden and Dwight are better players...

We did improve. Then took a step back. Now we have cap space coming up. A natural cycle. We didn't reach our goals, but still improved over the short term. Denver is stuck right now with a lot of long-term contracts for players who can't stay healthy. Many ways to look at this. I see it much different from you.

trading for this idiot yanked us into win-now mode, and the smoldering ashes that this idiot came to was what he had to work with. natural cycles occur when you have a plan and you stick with a plan, upgrading by positions of need and not simply acquiring talent for its own sake, especially iverrated and redundant talent.

Same old tag team non-sense here. No point in arguing.

it was your nonsense that spurred me to respond:

1) we paid market value for carmelo anthony
2) they took a step back and we improved

I never said they took a step back. Please read carefully. "Then took a step back" as in "we took a step back this season."

"We did improve (2012/2013). Then took a step back (2013/2014)." Get it now?

still doesn't make what we have witnesses a "natural cycle" not by a long shot.

By natural cycle, i mean we built the team with a window in mind. That window was supposed to be 3 years, then rebuild/retool using free agency. Unfortunately that window was much more limited than we (most of us) had hoped. There was, however, a short window of major improvement, some minor playoff success, then major regression. That was the cycle i am referring to. Yes, it was a failure, but many things factored into it, and i think the trade was one of the furthest things from it.

BAD: Maybe we anointed him too fast. He might not be that kind of superstar. He’s a great defender regardless, but realistically, George had three good games against LeBron last year, and suddenly the world was expecting him to become a top-five player. He was also the only player on the Pacers who could be turned into any kind of marketing force, which probably contributed to people looking at him through the LeBron-Durant prism, something that doesn’t necessarily make sense.

While I wouldn't align myself with the "we", there is a ton of truth to this. I hope Paul didn't buy into that hype and continues to work on his game.

Knixkik wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Any other team would've traded Gallo, Wilson and a pick and it would've been enough. We were forced to include Mozgov and multiple draft picks because we are the Knicks and trading with Dolan elevates your status as GM. Ujiri is a basketball God now thanks to us

Just look at the CP3 trade, Dwight trade, and Harden trade. Definitely not true.

I would argue all of those guys are not only younger but better than carmelo..so, maybe justified...

Melo was 26 at the time of the trade. Same age range with everyone except Harden, who was far less proven. Toss in the DWill trade too. We traded what the market value for a player of Melo's caliber was. And most of those players we traded all became injury-prone did not improve.

wait moz didn't improve? gallo didn't improve. I think that team won a franchise record 57 wins.. sorry, I don't buy that... also have to count in the 2 first round picks, two second round picks, eddy curry's expiring and we gave up a lot more.. sorry using the did not improve argument doesn't work? did carmelo improve? better yet, did the knicks improve? looking at our situation now, I would say a big HELL NO... Here is what we do know, those guys best years are still ahead of them. same can't be said of carmelo and on top of that, they are under contract... while we have a guy trying to hold the knicks hostage after leading them to the lottery...

And it also goes back to this... Paul, Harden and Dwight are better players...

We did improve. Then took a step back. Now we have cap space coming up. A natural cycle. We didn't reach our goals, but still improved over the short term. Denver is stuck right now with a lot of long-term contracts for players who can't stay healthy. Many ways to look at this. I see it much different from you.

trading for this idiot yanked us into win-now mode, and the smoldering ashes that this idiot came to was what he had to work with. natural cycles occur when you have a plan and you stick with a plan, upgrading by positions of need and not simply acquiring talent for its own sake, especially iverrated and redundant talent.

Same old tag team non-sense here. No point in arguing.

it was your nonsense that spurred me to respond:

1) we paid market value for carmelo anthony
2) they took a step back and we improved

I never said they took a step back. Please read carefully. "Then took a step back" as in "we took a step back this season."

"We did improve (2012/2013). Then took a step back (2013/2014)." Get it now?

still doesn't make what we have witnesses a "natural cycle" not by a long shot.

By natural cycle, i mean we built the team with a window in mind. That window was supposed to be 3 years, then rebuild/retool using free agency. Unfortunately that window was much more limited than we (most of us) had hoped. There was, however, a short window of major improvement, some minor playoff success, then major regression. That was the cycle i am referring to. Yes, it was a failure, but many things factored into it, and i think the trade was one of the furthest things from it.

win-now mode means you have two or three years to succeed. the knicks failed and now melo wants to test free agency. that is utter failure. had he waited to come to new york we would not be in this awful situation that demands a total rebuild. and we are pinning our hopes on phil jackson who is intent on purging this team so he can force a culture change-- and guess what that will likely mean melo is gone.

and if that's the case then it puts the magnitude of dolan's folly in high relief. remember-- dolan has admitted that he has no idea what he is doing and guess what-- his biggest involvement was bringing melo here over walsh's and d'antoni's objections.

the trade was CENTRAL to the team's failure to make a dent in the league.

charles barkley: "the knicks stink."