In the end, HOW MUCH IS A PAY CUT?
The less he makes, the more room we have to add talent around with him....
If he is able to make $20m + on every year but 2015, preferably under 15m in 2015, I don't see him taking that big of a pay cut for the better of the team
In fact I think it would still be the best offer he would receive in the open market

If he isn't satisfied with that salary, isn't willing to wait till 2015, and wants to leave, I hope he keeps it in the house and allows us to get something back in a SIGN and TRADE
I prefer sending him to Houston, sending him out West, to a team with many draft picks in the future, and most importantly 2nd rounders in this DEEP DRAFT this summer
I am looking at 2 2nd round picks, 2 1st round picks, along with Lin and Asik, if we can get any youth in addition to that like (Parsons, Terrence Jones, Isiah Cannon, Donte Mont), it would be great, and of course get Felton and/or JR Smith out of here as well

That isn't the greatest deal since Houston's 1st round picks will likely be TOP 3-5 in

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I don't really see Melo as a triangle type player. You need a willing passer and an ability to play well away from the ball. Both attributes that Melo does not possess. Big Chief Triangle needs to trade Melo for assets in the offseason assuming Melo does not opt out. If Melo stays then PJax needs to find the right system to build around Melo. This means a PG that can create. A SG that can hit the open 3. Another forward that is long that can switch with Melo between the 3 and 4. A stretch 5 that can rebound.

honestly do you only look at assist #s? Have you not been watching? How can you say Melo isnt a willing passer and also say you have watched him very much at all in the last two years?

Maybe he's watching more closely than you are! It looks like your eyeball assessment is malfunctioning again. They actually record this data now. Melo has 6.4 assist opportunities (passes that lead to shot attempts) per game, which barely places him in the top 100. For someone who leads the league in usage (meaning he has the ball in his hands more than anyone else in the league), that number is shocking. And before you bring up the "hockey assist" argument, note that he's averaging only 0.6 secondary assists ("hockey assists") per game. He's barely in the top 100 for total passes too (that's assist opportunity passes and any additional passes).
http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingPassing.html?pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=100&sortField=PASS&sortOrder=DES

For example... last game Melo, Prigs, JR and Shump are all on the wing with Cole in the middle. Melo passes on a 3 and swings the ball to Shump who swings it to Prigs who swings it JR who swings it back to Shump who swings it back to Melo who ends up with a better shot. Now was Melo ball hogging there? Was Melo willing to pass (thus making him a willing passer)? Yes he was.

Can you show me the stats on actual passes? Like how many times he has the ball and passes? It appears your data is incomplete

RonRon wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I don't really see Melo as a triangle type player. You need a willing passer and an ability to play well away from the ball. Both attributes that Melo does not possess. Big Chief Triangle needs to trade Melo for assets in the offseason assuming Melo does not opt out. If Melo stays then PJax needs to find the right system to build around Melo. This means a PG that can create. A SG that can hit the open 3. Another forward that is long that can switch with Melo between the 3 and 4. A stretch 5 that can rebound.

honestly do you only look at assist #s? Have you not been watching? How can you say Melo isnt a willing passer and also say you have watched him very much at all in the last two years?

Maybe he's watching more closely than you are! It looks like your eyeball assessment is malfunctioning again. They actually record this data now. Melo has 6.4 assist opportunities (passes that lead to shot attempts) per game, which barely places him in the top 100. For someone who leads the league in usage (meaning he has the ball in his hands more than anyone else in the league), that number is shocking. And before you bring up the "hockey assist" argument, note that he's averaging only 0.6 secondary assists ("hockey assists") per game. He's barely in the top 100 for total passes too (that's assist opportunity passes and any additional passes).
http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingPassing.html?pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=100&sortField=PASS&sortOrder=DES

Bonn.. not sure if you realized as I know you never watch, but there is actual basketball played before the final pass that leads to a score.

For example... last game Melo, Prigs, JR and Shump are all on the wing with Cole in the middle. Melo passes on a 3 and swings the ball to Shump who swings it to Prigs who swings it JR who swings it back to Shump who swings it back to Melo who ends up with a better shot. Now was Melo ball hogging there? Was Melo willing to pass (thus making him a willing passer)? Yes he was.

Can you show me the stats on actual passes? Like how many times he has the ball and passes? It appears your data is incomplete

Melo has improved much on making the simple passes, trusting his team mates
He has changed much since his earlier years and I think it is possible that he can be a more efficient player as he has matured much since the past couple seasons
I think we should play as a team better though, with making a move as soon as we get the ball or moving the basketball, with constant movement or position
The Triangle would allow us to have better position to utilize everyone on the floor as a threat

However, in the end, we still need to add more talent to compliment Melo and the Triangle, hopefully Melo understands this and takes a pay cut in 2015 for the better of the team as a Knick
We need at least a Kevin Love/Lamarcus Aldridge type of talent, in addition to 2-3 more solid players
Possibly even getting some continued development players, players undrafted, utilize the MLE effectively this summer, and make solid vet min players that can continue to improve and develop

In addition to adding the talent needed, I think we need a change in the GM, Scouting department, coaching/assistant coaching, and development coaches, so Phil Jackson can run his philosophy and system

Maybe getting a versatile SF/PF like Thad Young/Jeff Green/ Wilson Chandler with Perkins expiring contract in addition to a 1st rounder
To compliment Melo, we need a SF/PF that can go score both inside and outside, in addition to defending 3 positions, like a YOUNG Marion or Battum type player

I believe such moves would allow us to play at a high level with the talent needed, while contending next season and building for our future as well

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I don't really see Melo as a triangle type player. You need a willing passer and an ability to play well away from the ball. Both attributes that Melo does not possess. Big Chief Triangle needs to trade Melo for assets in the offseason assuming Melo does not opt out. If Melo stays then PJax needs to find the right system to build around Melo. This means a PG that can create. A SG that can hit the open 3. Another forward that is long that can switch with Melo between the 3 and 4. A stretch 5 that can rebound.

honestly do you only look at assist #s? Have you not been watching? How can you say Melo isnt a willing passer and also say you have watched him very much at all in the last two years?

Maybe he's watching more closely than you are! It looks like your eyeball assessment is malfunctioning again. They actually record this data now. Melo has 6.4 assist opportunities (passes that lead to shot attempts) per game, which barely places him in the top 100. For someone who leads the league in usage (meaning he has the ball in his hands more than anyone else in the league), that number is shocking. And before you bring up the "hockey assist" argument, note that he's averaging only 0.6 secondary assists ("hockey assists") per game. He's barely in the top 100 for total passes too (that's assist opportunity passes and any additional passes).
http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingPassing.html?pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=100&sortField=PASS&sortOrder=DES

Bonn.. not sure if you realized as I know you never watch, but there is actual basketball played before the final pass that leads to a score.

For example... last game Melo, Prigs, JR and Shump are all on the wing with Cole in the middle. Melo passes on a 3 and swings the ball to Shump who swings it to Prigs who swings it JR who swings it back to Shump who swings it back to Melo who ends up with a better shot. Now was Melo ball hogging there? Was Melo willing to pass (thus making him a willing passer)? Yes he was.

Can you show me the stats on actual passes? Like how many times he has the ball and passes? It appears your data is incomplete

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I don't really see Melo as a triangle type player. You need a willing passer and an ability to play well away from the ball. Both attributes that Melo does not possess. Big Chief Triangle needs to trade Melo for assets in the offseason assuming Melo does not opt out. If Melo stays then PJax needs to find the right system to build around Melo. This means a PG that can create. A SG that can hit the open 3. Another forward that is long that can switch with Melo between the 3 and 4. A stretch 5 that can rebound.

honestly do you only look at assist #s? Have you not been watching? How can you say Melo isnt a willing passer and also say you have watched him very much at all in the last two years?

Maybe he's watching more closely than you are! It looks like your eyeball assessment is malfunctioning again. They actually record this data now. Melo has 6.4 assist opportunities (passes that lead to shot attempts) per game, which barely places him in the top 100. For someone who leads the league in usage (meaning he has the ball in his hands more than anyone else in the league), that number is shocking. And before you bring up the "hockey assist" argument, note that he's averaging only 0.6 secondary assists ("hockey assists") per game. He's barely in the top 100 for total passes too (that's assist opportunity passes and any additional passes).
http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingPassing.html?pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=100&sortField=PASS&sortOrder=DES

Bonn.. not sure if you realized as I know you never watch, but there is actual basketball played before the final pass that leads to a score.

For example... last game Melo, Prigs, JR and Shump are all on the wing with Cole in the middle. Melo passes on a 3 and swings the ball to Shump who swings it to Prigs who swings it JR who swings it back to Shump who swings it back to Melo who ends up with a better shot. Now was Melo ball hogging there? Was Melo willing to pass (thus making him a willing passer)? Yes he was.

Can you show me the stats on actual passes? Like how many times he has the ball and passes? It appears your data is incomplete

I already did. Can you read more carefully?

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I don't really see Melo as a triangle type player. You need a willing passer and an ability to play well away from the ball. Both attributes that Melo does not possess. Big Chief Triangle needs to trade Melo for assets in the offseason assuming Melo does not opt out. If Melo stays then PJax needs to find the right system to build around Melo. This means a PG that can create. A SG that can hit the open 3. Another forward that is long that can switch with Melo between the 3 and 4. A stretch 5 that can rebound.

honestly do you only look at assist #s? Have you not been watching? How can you say Melo isnt a willing passer and also say you have watched him very much at all in the last two years?

Maybe he's watching more closely than you are! It looks like your eyeball assessment is malfunctioning again. They actually record this data now. Melo has 6.4 assist opportunities (passes that lead to shot attempts) per game, which barely places him in the top 100. For someone who leads the league in usage (meaning he has the ball in his hands more than anyone else in the league), that number is shocking. And before you bring up the "hockey assist" argument, note that he's averaging only 0.6 secondary assists ("hockey assists") per game. He's barely in the top 100 for total passes too (that's assist opportunity passes and any additional passes).
http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingPassing.html?pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=100&sortField=PASS&sortOrder=DES

Bonn.. not sure if you realized as I know you never watch, but there is actual basketball played before the final pass that leads to a score.

For example... last game Melo, Prigs, JR and Shump are all on the wing with Cole in the middle. Melo passes on a 3 and swings the ball to Shump who swings it to Prigs who swings it JR who swings it back to Shump who swings it back to Melo who ends up with a better shot. Now was Melo ball hogging there? Was Melo willing to pass (thus making him a willing passer)? Yes he was.

Can you show me the stats on actual passes? Like how many times he has the ball and passes? It appears your data is incomplete

I already did. Can you read more carefully?

sorry... w/ 50k posts and so little content its hard not to just glaze over.

No reaction to the #s? I guess you didn't really want the data you asked for unless it would confirm what you wanted. You give a whole insulting post about my allegedly not seeing the game and not knowing that multiple passes occur, when it turns out you just didn't see the info. right in the post that you were looking for? Then you can't even apologize without offering another insult? You used to actually be a respectful, mature adult here.

Anji wrote:LOL, got to give you credit Mikey, you said if he played well you would stop the nit picking and you have.

We have three guys who dont watch basketball blasting every thread with knocks on the guy... from 4 years ago. (Yawn)

At this point I just respond in kind. Garbage in garbage out.

fishmike wrote:

Anji wrote:LOL, got to give you credit Mikey, you said if he played well you would stop the nit picking and you have.

Like Im some kinda MElo lover... I killed the guy after the trade and especially that first full year. He's played better. He's given what a max player should. He's improved. He's not Durant or Lebron. I never killed Ewing for not being Hakeem. Not gonna start now.

We have three guys who dont watch basketball blasting every thread with knocks on the guy... from 4 years ago. (Yawn)

At this point I just respond in kind. Garbage in garbage out.

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I don't really see Melo as a triangle type player. You need a willing passer and an ability to play well away from the ball. Both attributes that Melo does not possess. Big Chief Triangle needs to trade Melo for assets in the offseason assuming Melo does not opt out. If Melo stays then PJax needs to find the right system to build around Melo. This means a PG that can create. A SG that can hit the open 3. Another forward that is long that can switch with Melo between the 3 and 4. A stretch 5 that can rebound.

honestly do you only look at assist #s? Have you not been watching? How can you say Melo isnt a willing passer and also say you have watched him very much at all in the last two years?

Maybe he's watching more closely than you are! It looks like your eyeball assessment is malfunctioning again. They actually record this data now. Melo has 6.4 assist opportunities (passes that lead to shot attempts) per game, which barely places him in the top 100. For someone who leads the league in usage (meaning he has the ball in his hands more than anyone else in the league), that number is shocking. And before you bring up the "hockey assist" argument, note that he's averaging only 0.6 secondary assists ("hockey assists") per game. He's barely in the top 100 for total passes too (that's assist opportunity passes and any additional passes).
http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingPassing.html?pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=100&sortField=PASS&sortOrder=DES

Bonn.. not sure if you realized as I know you never watch, but there is actual basketball played before the final pass that leads to a score.

For example... last game Melo, Prigs, JR and Shump are all on the wing with Cole in the middle. Melo passes on a 3 and swings the ball to Shump who swings it to Prigs who swings it JR who swings it back to Shump who swings it back to Melo who ends up with a better shot. Now was Melo ball hogging there? Was Melo willing to pass (thus making him a willing passer)? Yes he was.

Can you show me the stats on actual passes? Like how many times he has the ball and passes? It appears your data is incomplete

the first twenty minutes of the game they played the right way and it was how they built a comfortable lead against a team with a worse record. it was after that when the offensive cohesion evaporated. i was tracking the bad shots melo took and you can imagine that those bad shots contributed to the breakdown. did they win in spite of that? yes. against the celtics. BFD

can you use your internal eyeballs and imagine the same breakdown occurring against a title contender? what happens then?

easy. We would lose, and you and TFK and Bonn can lather each other up in vaseline and go streaking through the quad. Im pretty sure thats what would happen.

Knicks come out against an inferior team in a must win game, Melo hits every shot, opens up a huge lead the best you have is to look at how they played in extended garbage time and say that wouldnt work against a better team. Your the only guy who looks to give you team "moral losses"

Heeee-haw dude.

a smarter team with a smarter player would take the opportunity to focus and hone their skills for an entire game.

why?

in preparation for the playoffs where playing the right way the entire game gives the best chance at winning the game.

are you sure you know what you are talking about? i am not convinced

and by the way your attempts at mocking humor are.not.funny.