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Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
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holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:fishmike wrote:dk7th wrote:fishmike wrote:dk7th wrote:Knixkik wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:actofgod wrote:Melo excels as a PF, Love is a PF. Locking the vast majority of our money on two fours would be inane. This team will go nowhere without a quality 1 and 2. Melo is usually cover by 3s(George, Battier, Bron,KD...Melo has trouble guarding 4s(West and ZBo comes to mind)..Melo is a 3 who can moonlight at 4.. in other words he is a tweener Actually he would be considered a hybrid, not a tweener, because his advantage is he can effectively play either position, unless major mismatches are presented. Tweeners struggle to play either position effectively in most cases. you just contradicted yourself and made my point. he can present mismatches on offense but then struggles on defense in both positions. tweener He's a 10 time all star but cant play D, doesnt have a position and is a loafer. We get it what does a popularity contest have to do with his effectiveness on defense? he isn't a complete player. this is a list that tells me a little more something of his value since it is not based on casual fan voting but sportswriters and columnists: 2005-06 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
2006-07 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
2008-09 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
2009-10 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2011-12 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
2012-13 NBA All-NBA (2nd) notice no first team appearances. when you are 3rd team it translates to all-star reserve. second team means you are possibly an all-star starter but it is not a given. sooo.... 6x times he's voted by people YOU VALUE as being the 2nd or 3rd best player in the NBA at his position and you view that as a negative?Thank you DK... so since this is a viable critera your agreeing that Melo is essentially the best forward in the league not named KD or Lebron or KD or Duncan? OOOOOO-KAY bottom line is Melo is there EVERY YEAR. I think even the most die hard Melo supporters (and Im NOT one) would agree that Melo is a notch below this list of players (when having their BEST seasons) who have kept him off the all NBA first team:
Lebron
Dirk
Kevin Garnett (Minn years)
Duncan (younger)
Kevin Durant How did he beat out Paul George last year? Isnt that your favorite player? (assuming you and TFK are same guy) carmelo anthony's value from that rating is 12-13 million a year. that's all that matters at this point since winning titles is alla true knick fan cares about. we overpaid him and gave up assets too and now it's time for him to give back by asking for an amount that is in keeping with his actiual value to a team. a player is good at one pricer and bad at another. carmelo is bad at the price we paid. Gallo makes 11 mil per, Deng makes about 14 and wants more, Boozer 15/16?, Chandler 14, McGee makes 10...Either u have no idea what a true value of a player is or the rest of the Basketball Universe doesn't know... deng won't get more although he has more value to a title team than melo does imho because he plays a complete game, boozer is vastly overpaid no doubt, mcgee is a little much at 10, gallo is being paid what he should be. i know what value to place on players i think. what are your values for these players pray tell? So, in your opinion Melo and Gallo are almost equals??? lets stay on point instead of you going down the road of outrage as usual. what price to you put on these players? Melo is a max player, a top 5 player..Gallo is 8/9 mil per 42% shooter from the field, 37% from three,5 reb a game at 6'10", poor..McGee is 8 per..Deng is 12/13..Boozer 9/10..
Melo is a game changer..Gallo??? so you talk sense about everyone you mentioned except gallinari and anthony. i like to pay complete players, aka advanced stat players, what they're worth and not overpay for incomplete players. ujiri locked up gallinari at a good price because ujiri knows value when he sees it. can't say the same about dolan. in terms of winning he does not know the difference between the price of something and the value of something. walsh said a player is good at one price and bad at another, ie price viz a viz value. Please explain to me why Gallo is better than a 8/9 per type player???..My reasoning is that if u think Deng is 12/13 then u must agree that Gallo isn't close to Deng??? both are advanced stat players. deng is worth 13 million and gallinari is worth 2 million less at 11 million. do the math: we overpaid, vastly overpaid, for melo's actual value. so if i say he is not worth more than 12-13 million then bear in mind we overpaid in the first place. add in that we acquired him in a lopsided trade instead of acquiring him as a free agent-- i want to play for the knicks. bottom line incomplete players should only be acquired as free agents. that's why as much as we overpaid for stoudemire as an incomplete player, that was not as damaging as subsequently acquiring anthony in both a trade and a max. do you understand why acquiring incomplete players in a trade is damaging to a team?
Screw advance stat...I don't want to include ft% in the value of a player, it's silly...Gallo isn't even close to Deng, no way, no how..
You realize that free throws count on the scoreboard, right? Yeah sure but when u have it as a huge variable that effects over view of a player it's misplaced..If you are trying to rate a player off TS%, being a high ft% can significantly skew your numbers while not giving a good overall view of that player's game.. I think it's much more important for me to know Gallo is a 42% shooter from the field and 37% from three than he is an 84% ft shooter...The individual components gives me a much better view of who this player is...
The weighting for FTs in TS% is based specifically on the value of them. TS% is the total points divided by the number of true shot attempts, where each FT is counted as .44 shot attempts because the average FT uses up .44 possessions. (That's the exact weighting based on the frequency of fouls on 2 point attempts, 3 point attempts, and 1s, and technicals.) There's no other logical weight to give to FTs - it certainly doesn't make sense to give them zero weight and just look at FG%. There certainly is a value to it but not if you are taking 3/4 or 5 ft per game...The more ft's u take, the more I think it's value is worth as the number increases...Where the value shows up is when u are taking close to 10 fts per game, that is what dk7 might be referring to as having an impact in the playoffs, but Gallo isn't that player...Back to TS%...I would much rather to see the variance of stats as opposed to a single number to determine worth and value...U can't possibly get a good picture of a player looking at one number..I want to know how he gets him job done, where he gets his job done and what he does to get his job done... All you ever do is list FG%s, though. You don't seem to want to see the "variance." On the rare occasions when you do look at the variance, you probably aren't giving the right weighting to the FTs and FGs anyway. This is like a guy who only wants to know a hitter's "single percentage" because he doesn't care about doubles, triples, and homers. The overall batting average (or now there are better stats like OPS) is much more important because it captures the overall impact. If you do want to see the break down, there's no harm in that but you have to first, honestly look at all components (not just obsess over one like singles or FG%) and second, you have to somehow(?) know how much weight to give each (a double is worth more than a single). You're closer to the guy who says, "Sure, there's value to doubles, triples, and homers, but I'm only going to use singles to evaluate players" And there's no cut-off between value and dis-value to FTs. It's not like they only start counting on your tenth free throw. The more you take and make the better. Five per game is much better than 2.5 per game. After layups, they're the best scoring opportunity. |
