jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Ahhhhh, sexual preference. Parades. Coming Out.
If you wanted to be accepted as normal, why does it have to be turned into a freak show every time? How's it working out for Jason Collins?

It's been almost 20 years since Time Magazine had Ellen Degeneris coming out and it's still a national media day event?

Spare me the comparisons to race, because they don't work.
Suppose he came out and said he's an animist or a Scientologist? What difference does that make to a football player?

Play for attention. Anyone talking about Michael Sams before this?

Is it Michael Sams turning this into a "freakshow" or the media? It seems like you're accusing the former for it and not the latter, given the tone of your post.

And sexual orientation absolutely is equitable to race. It is, after all, an element of the human character. And like any element of the human character, people can choose to hate and disparage it because of arbitrary reasons. As I've already pointed out, people can still be fired today for being gay....just like how minorities were barred from jobs before the 60s. It's just not frequently discussed in those terms because (1) minorities can be extremely homophobic, which forces many not to embrace this embattled community and (2) the LGTB community is projected to be smaller than most racial minorities, which makes it easier to beat up on them. The fact is that they are the same.

kinda like the old white guy who says he's not racist. Minorities can do whatever they want. So long as its in their own neighborhood, and not with white women. But yea... that guy's not racist. He's just saying "to each his own."

Freakshow? If anything he spared everyone that. He could have just done well at the combine, played well, earned a spot then when he has his first big game on a Monday night and they interview him at the post game dropped it then. Instead he probably wanted to avoid the freakshow, let everyone know ahead of time and go be who he is. A gay dude who plays football.

So my question again is why drop it at all? Can you tell me you or anyone else would really care or need to know what he does with his weenie?
Do we need hetero ID cards?

Why the jump from preference to race? Because someone told you so?

The effect's of stupidity don't equate the cases. Stop for a second and just think it through.
Do you get to prefer your race?

What about passing?

NardDogNation wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

Jason Collins' genetic clone Jarron prefers women. Why? I don't know.

There is a big part of nature in this, but choice, preferences and experiences obviously come into play.

So I personally don't base my opinion on "well they can't change it". I just don't see the threat LBGT people inherently pose to society.

Fair. Traits can be recessive and still express themselves though. So I don't think nature weighs much in the conversation especially when you consider that Jason and Jarron were raised in the swme exact environment.

And in that same environment something could have happen to Jason that DIDN'T happen to Jarret.
It's not just black and white issue.

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:I agree with playa, why is it when some comes out the damn closet it's national attention, who the fck cares that he's gay, if your good, play hard and live a solid respectable life what else really matters. Who you fck is your own business coiming out seems like he has other motives.

Why, because you don't want to be in a locker room full of straight guys that tell gay jokes. I don't support being gay but I certainly respect each's own..do you, why drag half of a nation into this drama

no you dont. Not even close

what are you talking about fish, i have friends that are gay, i don't have a problem with them. When i talk about supporting them, I'm talking about going to rallies, demonstrations, voting for same sex marriage (i dont suport that) whatever, but as a humanitarian, I respect eveybody. Like BOB MARLEY SAID "every man has a right to his own destiny"

Yes, just as long as that destiny doesnt include marrying someone of the same sex.

playa2 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

playa2 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

playa2 wrote:So if we just do the math,you will see they are demanding something from heterosexual community to APPROVE of and not just tolerate and get along with.

PLAYERS WERE GAY AND PLAYING IN THE LEAGUE ALREADY, WHY THE BIG ANNOUNCEMENT TO EVERYBODY OUTSIDE OF NFL SCOUTS AND HIS COLLEGE TEAMMATES ?

They want people to approve not just accept it, because teams already in the past had gay players.

Wake up people !

Yeah, they were gay and had the hide the fact from everyone including teammates, front office personnel, etc. You realize how hard that must be with a spotlight constantly on you? The question is, why should they have to?

You know how hard it would be for me a devoted married man to hide my mistress from my co-workers and boss and my community and relatives ?

You know why, it's not the norm.

You're out of your ****ing mind if you think marriage is natural. We're designed to be polygamists but realize the inherent shortcomings of that when building society. That is why we espouse monogamy. If it wasn't for that (and religion for others), it would be an all-you-can-****-buffet. As a male in his mid-20's that has no doubt been my aspiration albeit mitigated by a sense of decency. In any case, comparing the attention you'd receive in your average Joe life to that of a celebrity is ridiculous. The premise for your point is moot as a result.

I just found out why it's hard for you to understand what I'm saying.

You don't believe there is a right and wrong just do what cha like !

playa2 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

playa2 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

playa2 wrote:The basketball player came out after he retired John Amaechi he went on the circuit.

Former football player came out after he had retired too.

Jason Collins came out when he wasn't on a NBA roster so he like the others didn't really lose any money, they just let it be known they played pro sports and was gay.

Now we have a young man who haven't made a red cent yet, why would he risk the higher salary by potential being drafted lower because of him coming out......unless he has something or someone to back him up legally as a community.

Everybody wasn't born yesterday, the NFL is being challenged with this in your face approach now that the WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING. WHAT A STRATEGY !

Are you commending those guys for trying to hide who they are until they were out of the spotlight? What are you saying?

What I'm saying NardDogNation it isn't about trying to hide anything,wow is that all you got out of my comments ???

In small increments the gay community is trying to persuade heterosexuals to approve of their sexual preference, not accept them as they are.

Those players knew by coming out they would have lost money or been treated differently, that's why they wouldn't have made a sound about their lifestyle while playing.

This guy is being used as a pawn because a some sort of civil case can come against the NFL if he isn't drafted. I'm sure there are a lot of lawyers who are chomping on the bit to grab the case knowing the NFL has BILLIONS.

He's not the first gay pro ballplayer but that isn't enough, if you have an agenda to influence people to approve of your lifestyle off the field.

Just play ball and be gay Mike Sam's you wouldn't be the 1st.

when the acceptance is there you can make this statement. Until then its a fart in the wind. Nothing there so this simply isnt reality.

Maybe not your reality, people have beliefs and they don't have to approve others beliefs, but they can accept & get along with them.

That's what pro athletes have been doing for years. You know something is unnatural when you are afraid to tell people of your personal sexual preference.

When has it been the norm for a good married man feels comfortable telling the world he's sleeping around with thousands of women ? He would hide it because he's knows that's not the natural way to live being married. Same with a male with a male, or female with female.

When the morality of a society starts to deteriorate(coming out not feeling shame), you better believe the quality of life for that society will soon follow.

Look around you!

At one time it was shameful and deemed unnatureal to marry and have interracial children.

To not support the rights of such a person would be discriminatory.

Don't matter why some is Gay to justify a thing. To not adhere to the laws is discriminitory. YOu don't have to like it, but you have to adhere to the laws. No body says you have to buy products from gay spokespersons or root for the team he gets drafted.

Society starts with laws.

Why he is gay? Don't matter why. Your thoughts are your own. Yoru entitled to your opinion. Just understand you get ridiculed for it if its ignorant.

Why is he coming out? I think some very good points, especially if he wants to get married. To deny him is illegal. Now nobody says he has to be a pro footbal player but why shouldn't he be? To not allow him is to discriminate. No law that says his draft status is protected. IN fact, he'd be better off being a free agent and choose the situation that best suits him. I don't think he drops in value because he is gay, he drops in value because there is a lessor market for him (some teams won't touch him) and if those think they can get him at a lower spot then they will wait.

That happens with players for lots of reasons. I doubt he has any legal recourse. Only if the league colludes and it can be proved to blacklist him from playing would he have course to seek compensation.

Bonn1997 wrote:

playa2 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

Jason Collins' genetic clone Jarron prefers women. Why? I don't know.

There is a big part of nature in this, but choice, preferences and experiences obviously come into play.

So I personally don't base my opinion on "well they can't change it". I just don't see the threat LBGT people inherently pose to society.

Fair. Traits can be recessive and still express themselves though. So I don't think nature weighs much in the conversation especially when you consider that Jason and Jarron were raised in the swme exact environment.

And in that same environment something could have happen to Jason that DIDN'T happen to Jarret.
It's not just black and white issue.

Well, yeah, unless they were in the same room, same place every second of their lives they weren't in the "same exact environment." I don't know why people are afraid of the idea that nurture plays a role in sexual orientation. Nurture has nothing to do with choice. Most of the environmental influences from birth on in your life you don't "choose."

When I used the term "same exact environment", I was not suggesting that they "were in the same exact room....". Obviously there was some variation in their upbringing but was that enough to influence one to be gay and another to be straight? I find that hard to believe when there are so many controls present e.g. same parents, same schools, probably the same diets until high school and college, etc.

playa2 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

playa2 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

playa2 wrote:So if we just do the math,you will see they are demanding something from heterosexual community to APPROVE of and not just tolerate and get along with.

PLAYERS WERE GAY AND PLAYING IN THE LEAGUE ALREADY, WHY THE BIG ANNOUNCEMENT TO EVERYBODY OUTSIDE OF NFL SCOUTS AND HIS COLLEGE TEAMMATES ?

They want people to approve not just accept it, because teams already in the past had gay players.

Wake up people !

Yeah, they were gay and had the hide the fact from everyone including teammates, front office personnel, etc. You realize how hard that must be with a spotlight constantly on you? The question is, why should they have to?

You know how hard it would be for me a devoted married man to hide my mistress from my co-workers and boss and my community and relatives ?

You know why, it's not the norm.

You're out of your ****ing mind if you think marriage is natural. We're designed to be polygamists but realize the inherent shortcomings of that when building society. That is why we espouse monogamy. If it wasn't for that (and religion for others), it would be an all-you-can-****-buffet. As a male in his mid-20's that has no doubt been my aspiration albeit mitigated by a sense of decency. In any case, comparing the attention you'd receive in your average Joe life to that of a celebrity is ridiculous. The premise for your point is moot as a result.

I just found out why it's hard for you to understand what I'm saying.

You don't believe there is a right and wrong just do what cha like !

Your ignorance and bigotry doesn't make you a better person than me.

NardDogNation wrote:

playa2 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

playa2 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

playa2 wrote:So if we just do the math,you will see they are demanding something from heterosexual community to APPROVE of and not just tolerate and get along with.

PLAYERS WERE GAY AND PLAYING IN THE LEAGUE ALREADY, WHY THE BIG ANNOUNCEMENT TO EVERYBODY OUTSIDE OF NFL SCOUTS AND HIS COLLEGE TEAMMATES ?

They want people to approve not just accept it, because teams already in the past had gay players.

Wake up people !

Yeah, they were gay and had the hide the fact from everyone including teammates, front office personnel, etc. You realize how hard that must be with a spotlight constantly on you? The question is, why should they have to?

You know how hard it would be for me a devoted married man to hide my mistress from my co-workers and boss and my community and relatives ?

You know why, it's not the norm.

You're out of your ****ing mind if you think marriage is natural. We're designed to be polygamists but realize the inherent shortcomings of that when building society. That is why we espouse monogamy. If it wasn't for that (and religion for others), it would be an all-you-can-****-buffet. As a male in his mid-20's that has no doubt been my aspiration albeit mitigated by a sense of decency. In any case, comparing the attention you'd receive in your average Joe life to that of a celebrity is ridiculous. The premise for your point is moot as a result.

I just found out why it's hard for you to understand what I'm saying.

You don't believe there is a right and wrong just do what cha like !

Your ignorance and bigotry doesn't make you a better person than me.

H1AND1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:I agree with playa, why is it when some comes out the damn closet it's national attention, who the fck cares that he's gay, if your good, play hard and live a solid respectable life what else really matters. Who you fck is your own business coiming out seems like he has other motives.

Why, because you don't want to be in a locker room full of straight guys that tell gay jokes. I don't support being gay but I certainly respect each's own..do you, why drag half of a nation into this drama

no you dont. Not even close

what are you talking about fish, i have friends that are gay, i don't have a problem with them. When i talk about supporting them, I'm talking about going to rallies, demonstrations, voting for same sex marriage (i dont suport that) whatever, but as a humanitarian, I respect eveybody. Like BOB MARLEY SAID "every man has a right to his own destiny"

Yes, just as long as that destiny doesnt include marrying someone of the same sex.