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Melo for Griffin...bleacher report says it's been discussed.
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tkf
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12/14/2013  11:38 PM
H1AND1 wrote:
tkf wrote:
H1AND1 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
tkf wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
tkf wrote:
franco12 wrote:
RonRon wrote:
tkf wrote:
RonRon wrote:had Griffen developed a FT shot to go with his POTENTIAL a couple years back, then maybe

but

the hype has died out, we can force feed him and make him a human high light machine and lose by 30 pts and win less than 30 games a season
except we own every other year's draft pick and not our anticipated high 2nd round pick
He doesn't get paid 5m per year anymore, he gets payed max and thus is a MAX player that does not live up to his contract and why would we want that for 2015?

if we don't reload in 2015 with efficient cap and talent, we are tripled F***ED
on top of it, we will have to sign someone or even 2 players that we can keep beyond 2015 with the 5m MLE if Melo leaves

so we suck this year and next year, at least we own next year's pick and with a couple of good signings and/or some young future talent it could make a difference for 2015 FA

the hype has died out and what you see is a guy becoming a more complete player.. less dunks than last year to this point, but his FG% is high, he still scores and rebounds...

Blake is a better player than carmelo and the clippers won't trade him for carmelo..

they will never win close games with consistency, especially the ones that matter most with

Blake and Jordan either

so someone has to go among the 2 because they can never win with a PF and C that shoots a combined under 50% FT either as either would be liabilities in close game situations and cannot play together because of poor spacing and cannot touch the ball under the 2minute mark or can hack a jordan/griffen for over 2minutes

because Melo has shown himself to be such a strong closer- not only this year, but his whole career!

Please, the only place this trade was discussed was between the writer and his buddy over drinks. And if it was discussed by NBA GMs it was in context of a joke!

Melo has so little value out there, it isn't even funny. We'd be lucky to get a late first round pick for him. Heck, I bet Amare has more value around the league...

exactly, I can't imagine the clippers discussing such a deal... I don't think carmelo has that kind of value and the more the knicks lose, I can't see his value getting any higher? Now I know you may be just kidding, but we know amare has little value as well and surely not as much as carmelo.. now the amare that first came to NY under dantoni.. maybe...

but I get your point here.. LOL

If the Clippers have a shot at making this deal they do it 8 days a week. The clips add Melo for blake they win a championship. If the Knicks move a melo and you are a fan of the team you have to hope that they do something other than a deal for Blake.

carmelo doesn't make one team in this universe a champion, just delusional comments... so they become better than the spurs and thunder yet carmelo can't make the knicks better than a 6-16 team.. just listen to yourself.. No one in their right mind believes that, so I guess you are not in your right mind.. if that were true the clippers should not only be offering up blake, but they should throw in every pick they have as well.. I mean wouldn't you.. if you knew adding one player would make you a champion wouldn't you trade everything? of course, but the clippers know better and if they were a dumb organization I would welcome this trade as blake is a better player, younger and cheaper, but I am also a realist and the clippers are not dumb...

And here is more proof as to why we know that comment isn't true... ready? ready? THE CLIPPERS I AM SURE WANT TO WIN A RING AND THEY HAVE NOT CALLED THE KNICKS ABOUT CARMELO!!


see, how simple that is?

Disagreeing with your opinion of Melo doesn't make someone delusional. It doesn't mean that they post wild trade scenarios where the Knicks fleece the team they are dealing with. It doesn't mean that they over value every Knick player on the team. It means they don't hate the guy so much that they under value him. Big difference but three years in it seems that posting from a place of hate and anger and not being open minded in regards to the teams best player is the norm.

What would it take for you and others to even slightly warm up to TKF's views? I mean, if we went 0-82 would that be enough?

Why is it that one has to take one of two opposing views: 1) Melo is satan incarnate or 2) Melo is OMG2HAWT Scoring CHAMPION LOLOL HE'S BETTER THAN LEBRON!

It IS possible to see Melo is a flawed player who won't take this iteration of the Knicks anywhere yet also agree that _some_ team out there might value him and be able to use him effectively. I'm not a melo fan but why should I come around to TKF's views when it comes to hating the guy so much he refuses to believe any team would trade for him? Conversely, Melo bashers don't need to agree that he is the Knicks savior or worth keeping around to concede the point that somewhere, in some reality Carmelo _could_ possibly contribute to a winning team.

Final note FWIW my views of Melos BASKETBALL acumen and skills are much more aligned with you Bonn, and guys like TKF than those that are pro Melo. I just hope we trade him at this point even if his value is lower than it would've been say last season. I don't think if he Knicks out out feelers every GM is going to go "LOL FATMELO! No way!" Surely some team of GM may be interested.

well see you are doing what you are complaining about.. going over the top. I never said carmelo has no value and I know there are teams that would trade for him, problem is, I don't think it is teams like the clippers giving up a prize piece like Blake griffin. Knicks fans damn well know if Blake was a knick they would not trade him for a aging player like carmelo seeking another HUGe max deal on a team that is 6-16...

Carmelo has value, just not what most fans think... carlos boozer and a top 3 protected pick from the bulls and maybe that butler kid.... or maybe the hawks with jeff teague, milsap and a protected pick for carmelo and felton.. those are the types of deals we can look at..

when we start talking aldridge, love, blake, I mean really? those guys are younger stars, in some cases much younger, who not only have more upside but are better now.. why in the world would teams do that? carmelo has am long resume, there is no more potential. teams know who he is and what he does... He is an allstar player making max money who needs a real max player to carry him.. why in the world would any team give up blake for that? now if the clippers do it.. I am the happiest fan in the world.. but right now, I rather stick to reality..

I would do any of those deals you proposed in a heartbeat and in my other post I stayed I'd resign Carmelo at no more than 10 million or so.

I think those are realistic deals.. but 10 mil for carmelo although that is all I would want to pay is not realistic tho... if you can score over 20ppg in this league you can easily get 10 mil it seems..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
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RonRon
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12/14/2013  11:49 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/15/2013  1:27 AM
Rather than have a PF that cannot hit FT's at a MAX salary or even grab rebounds at a consistent basis, I would rather have some youth, picks, and salary cap relief for 2015
Some of the players could possibly be resent for a 2nd round pick

Wonder if Melo would be willing to go to Dallas (Texas's tax would allow him to earn more money for tax reasons)

Would rather have expirings and players that would NOT affect 2015 salary and could possibly be resent in the future for 2nd round picks
something like

Marion (expiring that would consider giving a friendly cap to keep beyond 2015 with team options)
Vince Carter (expiring and probably to retrade for example reship him to SA for a 2nd round pick Bonner/Patrick Mills (Mills Ronnie Brewer's trade exemption) and Pablo or Udrih
Brandon Wright (could be an asset at PF/C if recovers and is still quite young as a role player)
Dalembert or Ellington (Ellington is dead weight to me at a 2year deal and Dalembert has a team option for 2nd year

Young PG's
With Calderon/Ellis/Harris, they have 2 nice young PG's that I would like to grab to either develop or build up as a future asset

Larkin
Gel Mekal

and

some future picks, with 1st and 2nd round picks

for

Melo
Kmart
Udrih
Chris Smith
and one of our SG's

RonRon
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12/15/2013  12:05 AM
doesn't stop there

We need a plan and have to follow through with it, with backup options....
Melo will walk from us with all these rumors, CAA has started already (Clippers is something they likely through out because Cp3 is his buddy and is also a BIG CITY where he wants to be, more importantly, he wants to go to a team that will have his bird RIGHTS in order to get paid something he is NOT worth, although it might not be the max he would probably be seeking to stay in NYK


WE should fire Woodson, trade Melo and get something in return *without hurting our salary cap for 2015*

and

NO MORE ISO plays to raise value of players in a system where everyone can feel involved
Get back in to playing TEAM ball, with ball movement, and developing a system/identity that we lack

get a proven GM and Head Coach, with management, new assistant coaches, upgrade development coach/equipment/facility, and


continue to raise the value of certain players like JR Smith and continue rotating assets like Houston has done before they were able to trade for Harden, following their model in building a team


In addition, we would possibly be able to use our MLE, which could be the 3m or possibly even the 5m MLE (that we could use on one or 2 players to keep beyond our 2015 roster)
Role player are very important and we haven't been able to get the versatile SF's, PG's, and backup PF/C's with the ability to start at times
We have to value cap space and not overpay players and our GM must be able to sign players that would become assets for us, that has had PROVEN success in the league so Dolan will not interfere in his decision making, especially in trades or FA signings


This Summer
MLE depending on 3m or 5m if we trade Melo, possibly splitting 5m MLE on 2 solid players

================================================================================================

Sessions/Bayless
Lowry
Vasquez (especially if we want to run 2PG's, playing him at SG)


Deng
Marion (if we don't trade for him, we would have his bird rights if so, so we can use it on another player)
Trevor Ariza

Blatche
Channing Frye (has played quite well ever since he went to The Sun's)


Gortat
Robin Lopez (Brook's brother) *team option*
Koufus *team option*


players that could be split MLE on with some of the players above like Sessions/Bayless or even using a small portion on undrafted players in the summer's draft or in the pasts drafts
to 3 year team option deals

Darren Collison
Mo Williams
Patrick Mills (maybe even vet min)

Nate Robinson/Randy Foye *player option)

Patrick Patterson (if Toronto lets him go for cap space)
Humphries
BJ Mullens (maybe vet min)


Most importantly, we would need to change coaches that teaches/develops/inspires our team and HOLD PLAYERS ACCOUNTABLE and is willing to put them in their place to make a statement, along with a GM, and President of Operations that works together, a DEVELOPMENT STAFF, and value's youth and development in addition to trying to acquire young talent (undrafted or younger players on bad teams that still have upside)
Developing the next Westbrook, Harden, Durant, Paul George, requires a high draft pick which we likely will not own *unless 2015 summers draft pick*

But

We can continue to use the 3m that we haven't used this year in trades or to purchase picks in the draft (for this summers draft and use it again, for next season, to find young talent or trades)
No reason why we cant find and develop the next Danny Green/ Gary Neal type talent
or get very lucky with 2nd round picks and late 1st rounders with the next
Chandler Parsons, Marc Gasol, DaAndre Jordan, and Lance Stephensons,


We have to be able to work as a TEAM and ISO ball doesn't work unless we have a highly, versatile, and efficient players that shoots near 50% and brings many other skills to the table
Offering Poppavich a head coaching job for a couple years and moving him to our president as he finds his successor like Riley has done with the Heat (possibly Tim Duncan as head coach with his fundamental skills, leadership, DEFENSIVE abilities, high IQ, unselfishness, gets respect and players would listen to him in the league from all players to attract FA's to develop/mentor of Championship Pedigree


Targets in 2015 would be
==============================

Lebron

Kevin Love
Aldridge
Roy Hibbert


Room Exemption for Duncan on 2year deal (while letting him retire in 1 year for 2-3m per year but getting paid 2nd year as well and a large guarantee in future salaries as a coach
an old TIM DUNCAN can still mentor and be our Hakeem for Houston (room exemption, 2 deal but giving him the money even if he retires in 1 year of service say 2m per year for 2 years but giving him the entire 4m for one year) while promising him a future job as an assistant coach or development coach when he is ready to retire)


If we miss out on majority of the top tier agents
Go after cost efficient young talents with upside that can play in a SYSTEM and FIT together in building a TEAM

NOT signing all players at 4year deals with team options, like we have in the recent history, this ensures that the players will continue to stay in shape and work hard for their next contract and if not we are able to part with them at reasonable risk, our selling point would be so they can reclaim their once "ALL STAR STATUS"

Above average for their position and SOLID players/starters but NOT All STARs
Say, signing someone like Asik, Varejo, DeAndre Jordan, or even resigning AB, on a cap friendly contract without overpaying for a max salary

If we gamble, take a gamble on players/talents, with 2-3 year deals (team options for 2nd, as they would be our #1 and/or #2's) combined with some youth/talented role players)

Bynum

and

Rudy Gay to a 2 year deal with player option at a much lower deal, as he probably would be our #1 or #2 to shine in NY

Rhondo

Gasol brothers if the price is right (Pau Gasol might not even get a long term deal because of his age and 2015 FA's this summer and Marc has a player option

Dirk *at the right price/years, he might not get a long term deal at his age/injuries or a TEAM option till 2015 summer for this summer


Dragic (at the right price, he has a 7m player option) he isn't exactly a role player but you can never overpay for a PG and at 7m I think he is a cost efficient player)


role players
-----------------

Lin *can Linsanity return??? or can he be a 6th man type player to run a team and score....

Norris Cole/ Beverely,


Budinger

Nick Collison
Amir Johnson
AR (much smaller deal)

MosGov
Koufus

2016
==========

Durant (you never know, he would be a UFA, and if we have a solid youth team in addition to solid role players already, with an attractive HEAD COACH/SYSTEM and GM) NYK could make sense for him

D12 will Dwight still be a max type talent 3 years later and would his body hold up for a maxish type contract????

some lower level VERSATILE talents include

Battum

AL Horford
David Lee

Noah
Pekovic

Reggie Jackson

Hickson and Speights (supremley under rated players that can be starters are quality backup bigs)

and

Monta Ellis if we need a SCORER and he doesn't show signs of breaking down because his game is based on athleticism/speed/penetration

SwishAndDish13
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12/15/2013  12:41 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/15/2013  12:42 AM
Not sure why anybody thinks a star would wanna sign here. I mean looking at how Melo gets treated I'm pretty positive that it is a good bet that we can't sign a star unless nobody else is willing to pay close to that (see Amare/Tyson). Better hope Melo stays and recruits. Gonna be a cold day in hell before we rebuild from scratch through FA.
CrushAlot
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12/15/2013  12:49 AM
SwishAndDish13 wrote:Not sure why anybody thinks a star would wanna sign here. I mean looking at how Melo gets treated I'm pretty positive that it is a good bet that we can't sign a star unless nobody else is willing to pay close to that (see Amare/Tyson). Better hope Melo stays and recruits. Gonna be a cold day in hell before we rebuild from scratch through FA.

Kidd came to ny to play with melo and always speaks highly of him. Tyson came to play with melo. Not sure if jr did but guys in the league like and respect melo a lot more then some knick fans.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
SwishAndDish13
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12/15/2013  1:05 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
SwishAndDish13 wrote:Not sure why anybody thinks a star would wanna sign here. I mean looking at how Melo gets treated I'm pretty positive that it is a good bet that we can't sign a star unless nobody else is willing to pay close to that (see Amare/Tyson). Better hope Melo stays and recruits. Gonna be a cold day in hell before we rebuild from scratch through FA.

Kidd came to ny to play with melo and always speaks highly of him. Tyson came to play with melo. Not sure if jr did but guys in the league like and respect melo a lot more then some knick fans.

I agree 100%! If he leaves we are screwed. I don't think any other player would be crazy enough to sign up for getting attacked by the fanbase while working for an owner than hires morons. I def believe he can get people here.

Melo for Griffin...bleacher report says it's been discussed.

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