Just gotta say is not all on the coach. The knicks need bigs and they need a point guard regardless.

Woodson had to go regardless as well. Nuff has been said about it already

EnySpree wrote:I'm on the back end of this conversion....

Just gotta say is not all on the coach. The knicks need bigs and they need a point guard regardless.

Woodson had to go regardless as well. Nuff has been said about it already

What? did this happen already???

gunsnewing wrote:Trust

I trust him. I don't trust the lack of picks, or the management that constructs the roster.

Autonomy to have input? Give it to JVG when he snatched it away from Donnie? Would not give it to riles, Nellie, Larry MDA or Phil Jax?

Your fantasy is nice. Your asking to rebuild the franchise with grit, determination and patience. With all due respect, you think that is what the plan is?

Really, your talking about salvage of this season, hold on to Melo and give him what he wants, mortgage the future further.

Why do we suck now? We are paying the mortgage from the past.

We are like the guy that keeps rolling over debt into a new leased car. when the rules change we found out we could not leverage it as we used to. Now we are driving a camry paying lexus prices but put some nice (Melo) aftermarket wheels on it to make it looks snazzy.

I appreciate the effort most posters put in to try to "Fix" the team while Somberites like me must seem lazy and don't try. Really, nobody has any imput here so lets not take it personal.

If JVG wants to coach here I think its a great idea, but the notion he can rebuild on the fly is fictional. Tell me he signs on for 5 years, has "Player personal" title and some hint that we'll rebuild then I can buy into that. But the song and dance of "Players wanting to come here" without the beneift of a teams own pick if it goes lottery is delusional. Melo and Amare came here to get paid.

Nalod wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Trust

I trust him. I don't trust the lack of picks, or the management that constructs the roster.

Autonomy to have input? Give it to JVG when he snatched it away from Donnie? Would not give it to riles, Nellie, Larry MDA or Phil Jax?

Your fantasy is nice. Your asking to rebuild the franchise with grit, determination and patience. With all due respect, you think that is what the plan is?

Really, your talking about salvage of this season, hold on to Melo and give him what he wants, mortgage the future further.

Why do we suck now? We are paying the mortgage from the past.

We are like the guy that keeps rolling over debt into a new leased car. when the rules change we found out we could not leverage it as we used to. Now we are driving a camry paying lexus prices but put some nice (Melo) aftermarket wheels on it to make it looks snazzy.

I appreciate the effort most posters put in to try to "Fix" the team while Somberites like me must seem lazy and don't try. Really, nobody has any imput here so lets not take it personal.

If JVG wants to coach here I think its a great idea, but the notion he can rebuild on the fly is fictional. Tell me he signs on for 5 years, has "Player personal" title and some hint that we'll rebuild then I can buy into that. But the song and dance of "Players wanting to come here" without the beneift of a teams own pick if it goes lottery is delusional. Melo and Amare came here to get paid.

If we weren't trying to "fix" the team there wouldn't be much else to talk about except who is in what camp.

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Trust

I trust him. I don't trust the lack of picks, or the management that constructs the roster.

Autonomy to have input? Give it to JVG when he snatched it away from Donnie? Would not give it to riles, Nellie, Larry MDA or Phil Jax?

Your fantasy is nice. Your asking to rebuild the franchise with grit, determination and patience. With all due respect, you think that is what the plan is?

Really, your talking about salvage of this season, hold on to Melo and give him what he wants, mortgage the future further.

Why do we suck now? We are paying the mortgage from the past.

We are like the guy that keeps rolling over debt into a new leased car. when the rules change we found out we could not leverage it as we used to. Now we are driving a camry paying lexus prices but put some nice (Melo) aftermarket wheels on it to make it looks snazzy.

I appreciate the effort most posters put in to try to "Fix" the team while Somberites like me must seem lazy and don't try. Really, nobody has any imput here so lets not take it personal.

If JVG wants to coach here I think its a great idea, but the notion he can rebuild on the fly is fictional. Tell me he signs on for 5 years, has "Player personal" title and some hint that we'll rebuild then I can buy into that. But the song and dance of "Players wanting to come here" without the beneift of a teams own pick if it goes lottery is delusional. Melo and Amare came here to get paid.

If we weren't trying to "fix" the team there wouldn't be much else to talk about except who is in what camp.

Your right. I suppose I should chime in and offer something, but we have an impatient ignorant owner.

Nalod wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Trust

I trust him. I don't trust the lack of picks, or the management that constructs the roster.

Autonomy to have input? Give it to JVG when he snatched it away from Donnie? Would not give it to riles, Nellie, Larry MDA or Phil Jax?

Your fantasy is nice. Your asking to rebuild the franchise with grit, determination and patience. With all due respect, you think that is what the plan is?

Really, your talking about salvage of this season, hold on to Melo and give him what he wants, mortgage the future further.

Why do we suck now? We are paying the mortgage from the past.

We are like the guy that keeps rolling over debt into a new leased car. when the rules change we found out we could not leverage it as we used to. Now we are driving a camry paying lexus prices but put some nice (Melo) aftermarket wheels on it to make it looks snazzy.

I appreciate the effort most posters put in to try to "Fix" the team while Somberites like me must seem lazy and don't try. Really, nobody has any imput here so lets not take it personal.

If JVG wants to coach here I think its a great idea, but the notion he can rebuild on the fly is fictional. Tell me he signs on for 5 years, has "Player personal" title and some hint that we'll rebuild then I can buy into that. But the song and dance of "Players wanting to come here" without the beneift of a teams own pick if it goes lottery is delusional. Melo and Amare came here to get paid.

If we weren't trying to "fix" the team there wouldn't be much else to talk about except who is in what camp.

Your right. I suppose I should chime in and offer something, but we have an impatient ignorant owner.

We could apply that to conspiracy theories as well I suppose.

GustavBahler wrote:Mixed feelings. At least we would probably start winning again, playing D, but JVG's playoff track record hasn't been great since leaving NY. If he were given control over the roster and it stuck, it could give us the buffer from mgmt and ownership the team desperately needs. Jeff would be smart to ask for it. Might finally put an end to JR having the run of the place. I get the feeling that JVG wouldn't mind if Melo left so he could get a star that plays better D. Again, having veto power over trades or signings could give him the flexibility to build the roster the way he wants.

GustavBahler wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Mixed feelings. At least we would probably start winning again, playing D, but JVG's playoff track record hasn't been great since leaving NY. If he were given control over the roster and it stuck, it could give us the buffer from mgmt and ownership the team desperately needs. Jeff would be smart to ask for it. Might finally put an end to JR having the run of the place. I get the feeling that JVG wouldn't mind if Melo left so he could get a star that plays better D. Again, having veto power over trades or signings could give him the flexibility to build the roster the way he wants.

Agree but JVG is stubborn and committed to vets as much or more then most coaches. He didn't want Camby for Oak and he loves his vets etc. Having a good working relationship with a gm would be a good thing but letting him be gm or have veto power might not work out. However, I would be really excited to Jeff back. I also think that means Shump stays.

True, but I don't believe he would treat JR the way he is being treated now, with kid gloves. One of the things I really admired about Woodson early on was how he would light into JR when he was making bad decisions, like a father figure, and it worked for the most part during the regular season. At some point he started acting like an absentee parent. I believe Woodson can go back to being a successful coach but he has to be with an owner who won't be literally looking over his shoulder every second. If I'm JVG, I don't even think about the job without getting some autonomy in writing.

I agree with those who say he needs more help on offense. Like I said, mixed feelings.

That is a good point about Woodson becoming a bit of a lame duck as Dolan has become more hands on. I don't think there is much chance of Jeff coming back and I don't see Dolan giving anyone that much power in the organization. I think Glenn had woodson's back and that helped a lot. Begley wrote today that the knick organization is saying Woodson is using shump wrong in an attempt to increase his value.

JVG and Dolan can converse about their equal hate for/displeasure with the NBA office and Stern... It's a match made in heaven.