jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I'd rather trade him but I'm not gonna cry over Carmelo leaving us with $60 mil in cap space intact.

not only that, but we are not going to get back the same package we gave up.. I a team is willing or stupid enough to give us close to that, I would say do it tomorrow..

Some role players making combined Melo's salary, no thanks.

carmelo is a role player making max money.. who is a role player to you? it seems you don't have a clear grasp on who a star is... there are a lot of role players in the league who are allstar players or play on that level..

Let me ask you, was indiana a team of role players last year? and please don't mention paul george as being a star then, because only myself and a few others were calling him star talent last year...

you would not take the pacers team over having carmelo? really?

The Pacers are the one exception you like to use and its pretty warn out. George, West, and Hibbert are all-star players. They are not role players, and no reasonable basketball person considers Melo a role player.

exception.... every team doing well now has done so with players they drafted,smart trades, and FA signings.. we have done neither.. but the key is how they manipulated assets...

The knicks tried to follow another teams model but did so horribly...

you can't follow a model which pretty much requires you getting the best players in the league.. once they are gone, that model won't work!!

But please reasonably explain how Melo is a role player. Are most role players top 10 HOF candidates? Just asking.

top 10 HOF candidates.. what the heck does that mean.. top 10 of all time? top 10 among role players, top 10 among guys born in the 80's.. top 10 of guys who names end in "elo"... lol.. such a random statement..

Pardon me, he's in the top 12 of active players for HOF probability.

BasketBall-Reference.com
Active Min 400 Games
Rank Player HoF Prob
1. Kobe Bryant 1.0000
2. Tim Duncan 0.9999
3. LeBron James 0.9995
4. Dwyane Wade 0.9990
5. Kevin Garnett 0.9990
6. Dirk Nowitzki 0.9865
7. Paul Pierce 0.9823
8. Ray Allen 0.9657
9. Chris Bosh 0.9466
10. Chris Paul 0.8937
11. Tony Parker 0.8324
12. Carmelo Anthony 0.8191
13. Dwight Howard 0.8082

Now please explain Melo the "role player".

read my post I just made.. carmelo has been miscast... you take the word role player as being bad.. mchale was a role player, a great one tho..

you know what is so great about this list, and thanks for posting it...

chris bosh, ray allen,pierce, parker and carmelo... have never made first team all NBA... but bosh has a ring, so does allen, Parker has 3 and has been finals MVP and pierce has been finals MVP... there still is a distinction between those guys and carmelo...

I point this out because you are now trying to use the potential "HOF" as a way to put carmelo on a level he doesn't belong..

bosh right now I think is cast perfectely as a role player in miami.. although an allstar, he clearly is a role player on the heat.... not norris cole or birdman, no, he is better than that, but he still is a role player on the heat.. I know the term role player is usually for those who specifically do one thing, but I like to call them specialty players..

but back to my point.. everyone on this list, has something to distinguish themselves, with the exception of carmelo.. he doesn't fit... and yes getting a ring isn't easy, chris paul doesn't have one, but he has distinguished himself individually..

kind of eye opening here..

He doesn't fit, because you say so. Yes, that's tremendously eye opening. I'm not going to bother showing you again what the man's accomplished, because you'll just point out something that he hasn't accomplished, and make exceptions for those who don't meet the same requirement.

Sad.

Building the Model
For the Hall of Fame problem, I tried to use as many predictor variables as I could think of, but I did not use statistics that have not been kept for most of the NBA's history (e.g., steals). My player pool consisted of players who had played a minimum of 400 NBA games and had been eligible for at least one Hall of Fame election. After trying numerous models, my final model had seven predictor variables:
1.height (in inches)
2.last season indicator (1 if 1959-60 or before, 0 otherwise)
3.NBA points per game
4.NBA rebounds per game
5.NBA assists per game
6.NBA All-Star game selections
7.NBA championships won
All of the predictors listed above were significant at the 0.05 level. Other than height, all of the predictors had positive coefficients. ABA statistics, honors, and championships were not important predictors of Hall of Fame status, which is why I only used NBA statistics in my final model. I don't like ignoring the ABA statistics, but that's what the voters have apparently done. Keep in mind that my goal was not to determine who in the Hall of Fame, but rather who is likely to be in the Hall of Fame.

Bonn - While this model explains why AI isn't on the list, what have the other variables have to do with popularity?

AI isn't on the list because it's current players.
Other variables? Among lay opinion (which is what the formula is designed to asses), total scoring gets gigantic weight and then everything else gets a little weight.

Vmart wrote:

MSG3 wrote:Funny....he actually just answered a question about his future. He said "No one should be worried about my future here".

I'm worried he is going to stay and kill cap to get better.

me too!

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I'd rather trade him but I'm not gonna cry over Carmelo leaving us with $60 mil in cap space intact.

not only that, but we are not going to get back the same package we gave up.. I a team is willing or stupid enough to give us close to that, I would say do it tomorrow..

Some role players making combined Melo's salary, no thanks.

carmelo is a role player making max money.. who is a role player to you? it seems you don't have a clear grasp on who a star is... there are a lot of role players in the league who are allstar players or play on that level..

Let me ask you, was indiana a team of role players last year? and please don't mention paul george as being a star then, because only myself and a few others were calling him star talent last year...

you would not take the pacers team over having carmelo? really?

The Pacers are the one exception you like to use and its pretty warn out. George, West, and Hibbert are all-star players. They are not role players, and no reasonable basketball person considers Melo a role player.

exception.... every team doing well now has done so with players they drafted,smart trades, and FA signings.. we have done neither.. but the key is how they manipulated assets...

The knicks tried to follow another teams model but did so horribly...

you can't follow a model which pretty much requires you getting the best players in the league.. once they are gone, that model won't work!!

But please reasonably explain how Melo is a role player. Are most role players top 10 HOF candidates? Just asking.

top 10 HOF candidates.. what the heck does that mean.. top 10 of all time? top 10 among role players, top 10 among guys born in the 80's.. top 10 of guys who names end in "elo"... lol.. such a random statement..

Pardon me, he's in the top 12 of active players for HOF probability.

BasketBall-Reference.com
Active Min 400 Games
Rank Player HoF Prob
1. Kobe Bryant 1.0000
2. Tim Duncan 0.9999
3. LeBron James 0.9995
4. Dwyane Wade 0.9990
5. Kevin Garnett 0.9990
6. Dirk Nowitzki 0.9865
7. Paul Pierce 0.9823
8. Ray Allen 0.9657
9. Chris Bosh 0.9466
10. Chris Paul 0.8937
11. Tony Parker 0.8324
12. Carmelo Anthony 0.8191
13. Dwight Howard 0.8082

Now please explain Melo the "role player".

read my post I just made.. carmelo has been miscast... you take the word role player as being bad.. mchale was a role player, a great one tho..

you know what is so great about this list, and thanks for posting it...

chris bosh, ray allen,pierce, parker and carmelo... have never made first team all NBA... but bosh has a ring, so does allen, Parker has 3 and has been finals MVP and pierce has been finals MVP... there still is a distinction between those guys and carmelo...

I point this out because you are now trying to use the potential "HOF" as a way to put carmelo on a level he doesn't belong..

bosh right now I think is cast perfectely as a role player in miami.. although an allstar, he clearly is a role player on the heat.... not norris cole or birdman, no, he is better than that, but he still is a role player on the heat.. I know the term role player is usually for those who specifically do one thing, but I like to call them specialty players..

but back to my point.. everyone on this list, has something to distinguish themselves, with the exception of carmelo.. he doesn't fit... and yes getting a ring isn't easy, chris paul doesn't have one, but he has distinguished himself individually..

kind of eye opening here..

He doesn't fit, because you say so. Yes, that's tremendously eye opening. I'm not going to bother showing you again what the man's accomplished, because you'll just point out something that he hasn't accomplished, and make exceptions for those who don't meet the same requirement.

Sad.

Building the Model
For the Hall of Fame problem, I tried to use as many predictor variables as I could think of, but I did not use statistics that have not been kept for most of the NBA's history (e.g., steals). My player pool consisted of players who had played a minimum of 400 NBA games and had been eligible for at least one Hall of Fame election. After trying numerous models, my final model had seven predictor variables:
1.height (in inches)
2.last season indicator (1 if 1959-60 or before, 0 otherwise)
3.NBA points per game
4.NBA rebounds per game
5.NBA assists per game
6.NBA All-Star game selections
7.NBA championships won
All of the predictors listed above were significant at the 0.05 level. Other than height, all of the predictors had positive coefficients. ABA statistics, honors, and championships were not important predictors of Hall of Fame status, which is why I only used NBA statistics in my final model. I don't like ignoring the ABA statistics, but that's what the voters have apparently done. Keep in mind that my goal was not to determine who in the Hall of Fame, but rather who is likely to be in the Hall of Fame.

Bonn - While this model explains why AI isn't on the list, what have the other variables have to do with popularity?

JRod, what has he accomplished that would distinguish him...

NBA awards and accomplishments
2012-2013 NBA Scoring Champion
5-time All-NBA selection:
Second team: 2010, 2013
Third team: 2006, 2007, 2009, 2012
6-time NBA All-Star: 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013
NBA Rookie Challenge MVP: 2005[2]
NBA All-Rookie selection: First team: 2004[3]
Bronze medal with Team USA, 2004 Summer Olympic Games
Bronze medal with Team USA, 2006 FIBA World Championship
Gold medal with Team USA, 2007 FIBA Americas Championship
Gold medal with Team USA, 2008 Summer Olympic Games
Gold medal with Team USA, 2012 Summer Olympic Games
NBA records: Most points scored in one quarter: 33 (on December 10, 2008 vs. Minnesota Timberwolves)[4]
Tied with George Gervin (April 9, 1978)
Most consecutive points scored in a game: 26 (on December 10, 2008 vs. Minnesota Timberwolves)[5]
One of three teenagers to average more than 20 points per game; others are Kevin Durant and LeBron James
4 NBA Player of the Month
Apr-2013 Apr-2012 Nov-2009 Mar-2006

14 NBA Player of the Week
04/08/2013 04/01/2013 12/31/2012 11/26/2012 01/19/2010 11/02/2009 03/30/2008 12/23/2007 02/11/2007 12/03/2006 11/26/2006 03/19/2006 04/12/2004 03/14/2004

6 NBA Rookie of the Month
Apr-2004 Mar-2004 Feb-2004 Jan-2004 Dec-2003 Nov-2003

Owns four career 40-plus post-season games (two with Knicks), joining Bernard King (7) and Patrick Ewing (2) as only Knicks ever to record multiple 40-plus Playoff games.

Has led his team to the NBA Playoffs in each of his nine pro seasons, with 24.9 ppg in 54 career games (all starts)

95th leading scorer in NBA history with 15,926 career points...Just ahead of him on the all-time list are Hall of Famer Pete Maravich (94th with 15,948) and former Knicks Kiki Vandeweghe (93rd with 15,980) and Derek Harper (92nd with 16,006)
Career scoring average (24.7) ranks 14th on the all-time NBA list coming into 2012-13 and fourth among active players (behind LeBron James' 27.7, Kobe Bryant's 25.4 and Dwyane Wade's 25.2)
Ranks 17th among active players in total points (15,926)
On Nuggets' all-time franchise lists, Melo is third all-time in points (13,970, trailing only Alex English's 21,645 and Dan Issel 16,589), third in minutes (20,521), sixth in games played (564), seventh in steals (634), sixth in 3PT FG (410), ninth in rebounds (3,566) and 10th in assists (1,729).

Fourth on NBA Playoff leader board in scoring (27.8), trailing only LeBron James (30.3), Kobe Bryant (30.0) and Kevin Durant (28.5).

Fourth on NBA Playoff leader board in minutes (40.8).

But please, keep telling me what he hasn't done, tkf. All non-distinguishable role players accomplish this stuff every day.

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

MSG3 wrote:Funny....he actually just answered a question about his future. He said "No one should be worried about my future here".

I'm worried he is going to stay and kill cap to get better.

me too!

same here

ditto

I am worried about that as well. If he takes max money, everyone has played their cards wrong, unless it's only about the money to Melo. I'm hopeful that he truly wants to win and understand the best way is to take a lesser deal. I maintain the thought that he can be a central piece on a title team.

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I'd rather trade him but I'm not gonna cry over Carmelo leaving us with $60 mil in cap space intact.

not only that, but we are not going to get back the same package we gave up.. I a team is willing or stupid enough to give us close to that, I would say do it tomorrow..

Some role players making combined Melo's salary, no thanks.

carmelo is a role player making max money.. who is a role player to you? it seems you don't have a clear grasp on who a star is... there are a lot of role players in the league who are allstar players or play on that level..

Let me ask you, was indiana a team of role players last year? and please don't mention paul george as being a star then, because only myself and a few others were calling him star talent last year...

you would not take the pacers team over having carmelo? really?

The Pacers are the one exception you like to use and its pretty warn out. George, West, and Hibbert are all-star players. They are not role players, and no reasonable basketball person considers Melo a role player.

exception.... every team doing well now has done so with players they drafted,smart trades, and FA signings.. we have done neither.. but the key is how they manipulated assets...

The knicks tried to follow another teams model but did so horribly...

you can't follow a model which pretty much requires you getting the best players in the league.. once they are gone, that model won't work!!

But please reasonably explain how Melo is a role player. Are most role players top 10 HOF candidates? Just asking.

top 10 HOF candidates.. what the heck does that mean.. top 10 of all time? top 10 among role players, top 10 among guys born in the 80's.. top 10 of guys who names end in "elo"... lol.. such a random statement..

Pardon me, he's in the top 12 of active players for HOF probability.

BasketBall-Reference.com
Active Min 400 Games
Rank Player HoF Prob
1. Kobe Bryant 1.0000
2. Tim Duncan 0.9999
3. LeBron James 0.9995
4. Dwyane Wade 0.9990
5. Kevin Garnett 0.9990
6. Dirk Nowitzki 0.9865
7. Paul Pierce 0.9823
8. Ray Allen 0.9657
9. Chris Bosh 0.9466
10. Chris Paul 0.8937
11. Tony Parker 0.8324
12. Carmelo Anthony 0.8191
13. Dwight Howard 0.8082

Now please explain Melo the "role player".

read my post I just made.. carmelo has been miscast... you take the word role player as being bad.. mchale was a role player, a great one tho..

you know what is so great about this list, and thanks for posting it...

chris bosh, ray allen,pierce, parker and carmelo... have never made first team all NBA... but bosh has a ring, so does allen, Parker has 3 and has been finals MVP and pierce has been finals MVP... there still is a distinction between those guys and carmelo...

I point this out because you are now trying to use the potential "HOF" as a way to put carmelo on a level he doesn't belong..

bosh right now I think is cast perfectely as a role player in miami.. although an allstar, he clearly is a role player on the heat.... not norris cole or birdman, no, he is better than that, but he still is a role player on the heat.. I know the term role player is usually for those who specifically do one thing, but I like to call them specialty players..

but back to my point.. everyone on this list, has something to distinguish themselves, with the exception of carmelo.. he doesn't fit... and yes getting a ring isn't easy, chris paul doesn't have one, but he has distinguished himself individually..

kind of eye opening here..

He doesn't fit, because you say so. Yes, that's tremendously eye opening. I'm not going to bother showing you again what the man's accomplished, because you'll just point out something that he hasn't accomplished, and make exceptions for those who don't meet the same requirement.

Sad.

Building the Model
For the Hall of Fame problem, I tried to use as many predictor variables as I could think of, but I did not use statistics that have not been kept for most of the NBA's history (e.g., steals). My player pool consisted of players who had played a minimum of 400 NBA games and had been eligible for at least one Hall of Fame election. After trying numerous models, my final model had seven predictor variables:
1.height (in inches)
2.last season indicator (1 if 1959-60 or before, 0 otherwise)
3.NBA points per game
4.NBA rebounds per game
5.NBA assists per game
6.NBA All-Star game selections
7.NBA championships won
All of the predictors listed above were significant at the 0.05 level. Other than height, all of the predictors had positive coefficients. ABA statistics, honors, and championships were not important predictors of Hall of Fame status, which is why I only used NBA statistics in my final model. I don't like ignoring the ABA statistics, but that's what the voters have apparently done. Keep in mind that my goal was not to determine who in the Hall of Fame, but rather who is likely to be in the Hall of Fame.

Bonn - While this model explains why AI isn't on the list, what have the other variables have to do with popularity?

JRod, what has he accomplished that would distinguish him...

NBA awards and accomplishments
2012-2013 NBA Scoring Champion
5-time All-NBA selection:
Second team: 2010, 2013
Third team: 2006, 2007, 2009, 2012
6-time NBA All-Star: 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013
NBA Rookie Challenge MVP: 2005[2]
NBA All-Rookie selection: First team: 2004[3]
Bronze medal with Team USA, 2004 Summer Olympic Games
Bronze medal with Team USA, 2006 FIBA World Championship
Gold medal with Team USA, 2007 FIBA Americas Championship
Gold medal with Team USA, 2008 Summer Olympic Games
Gold medal with Team USA, 2012 Summer Olympic Games
NBA records: Most points scored in one quarter: 33 (on December 10, 2008 vs. Minnesota Timberwolves)[4]
Tied with George Gervin (April 9, 1978)
Most consecutive points scored in a game: 26 (on December 10, 2008 vs. Minnesota Timberwolves)[5]
One of three teenagers to average more than 20 points per game; others are Kevin Durant and LeBron James
4 NBA Player of the Month
Apr-2013 Apr-2012 Nov-2009 Mar-2006

14 NBA Player of the Week
04/08/2013 04/01/2013 12/31/2012 11/26/2012 01/19/2010 11/02/2009 03/30/2008 12/23/2007 02/11/2007 12/03/2006 11/26/2006 03/19/2006 04/12/2004 03/14/2004

6 NBA Rookie of the Month
Apr-2004 Mar-2004 Feb-2004 Jan-2004 Dec-2003 Nov-2003

Owns four career 40-plus post-season games (two with Knicks), joining Bernard King (7) and Patrick Ewing (2) as only Knicks ever to record multiple 40-plus Playoff games.

Has led his team to the NBA Playoffs in each of his nine pro seasons, with 24.9 ppg in 54 career games (all starts)

95th leading scorer in NBA history with 15,926 career points...Just ahead of him on the all-time list are Hall of Famer Pete Maravich (94th with 15,948) and former Knicks Kiki Vandeweghe (93rd with 15,980) and Derek Harper (92nd with 16,006)
Career scoring average (24.7) ranks 14th on the all-time NBA list coming into 2012-13 and fourth among active players (behind LeBron James' 27.7, Kobe Bryant's 25.4 and Dwyane Wade's 25.2)
Ranks 17th among active players in total points (15,926)
On Nuggets' all-time franchise lists, Melo is third all-time in points (13,970, trailing only Alex English's 21,645 and Dan Issel 16,589), third in minutes (20,521), sixth in games played (564), seventh in steals (634), sixth in 3PT FG (410), ninth in rebounds (3,566) and 10th in assists (1,729).

Fourth on NBA Playoff leader board in scoring (27.8), trailing only LeBron James (30.3), Kobe Bryant (30.0) and Kevin Durant (28.5).

Fourth on NBA Playoff leader board in minutes (40.8).

But please, keep telling me what he hasn't done, tkf. All non-distinguishable role players accomplish this stuff every day.

There is no doubt that volume shooting will get a lot of awards. But will it get you a ring?

Vmart wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I'd rather trade him but I'm not gonna cry over Carmelo leaving us with $60 mil in cap space intact.

not only that, but we are not going to get back the same package we gave up.. I a team is willing or stupid enough to give us close to that, I would say do it tomorrow..

Some role players making combined Melo's salary, no thanks.

carmelo is a role player making max money.. who is a role player to you? it seems you don't have a clear grasp on who a star is... there are a lot of role players in the league who are allstar players or play on that level..

Let me ask you, was indiana a team of role players last year? and please don't mention paul george as being a star then, because only myself and a few others were calling him star talent last year...

you would not take the pacers team over having carmelo? really?

The Pacers are the one exception you like to use and its pretty warn out. George, West, and Hibbert are all-star players. They are not role players, and no reasonable basketball person considers Melo a role player.

exception.... every team doing well now has done so with players they drafted,smart trades, and FA signings.. we have done neither.. but the key is how they manipulated assets...

The knicks tried to follow another teams model but did so horribly...

you can't follow a model which pretty much requires you getting the best players in the league.. once they are gone, that model won't work!!

But please reasonably explain how Melo is a role player. Are most role players top 10 HOF candidates? Just asking.

top 10 HOF candidates.. what the heck does that mean.. top 10 of all time? top 10 among role players, top 10 among guys born in the 80's.. top 10 of guys who names end in "elo"... lol.. such a random statement..

Pardon me, he's in the top 12 of active players for HOF probability.

BasketBall-Reference.com
Active Min 400 Games
Rank Player HoF Prob
1. Kobe Bryant 1.0000
2. Tim Duncan 0.9999
3. LeBron James 0.9995
4. Dwyane Wade 0.9990
5. Kevin Garnett 0.9990
6. Dirk Nowitzki 0.9865
7. Paul Pierce 0.9823
8. Ray Allen 0.9657
9. Chris Bosh 0.9466
10. Chris Paul 0.8937
11. Tony Parker 0.8324
12. Carmelo Anthony 0.8191
13. Dwight Howard 0.8082

Now please explain Melo the "role player".

read my post I just made.. carmelo has been miscast... you take the word role player as being bad.. mchale was a role player, a great one tho..

you know what is so great about this list, and thanks for posting it...

chris bosh, ray allen,pierce, parker and carmelo... have never made first team all NBA... but bosh has a ring, so does allen, Parker has 3 and has been finals MVP and pierce has been finals MVP... there still is a distinction between those guys and carmelo...

I point this out because you are now trying to use the potential "HOF" as a way to put carmelo on a level he doesn't belong..

bosh right now I think is cast perfectely as a role player in miami.. although an allstar, he clearly is a role player on the heat.... not norris cole or birdman, no, he is better than that, but he still is a role player on the heat.. I know the term role player is usually for those who specifically do one thing, but I like to call them specialty players..

but back to my point.. everyone on this list, has something to distinguish themselves, with the exception of carmelo.. he doesn't fit... and yes getting a ring isn't easy, chris paul doesn't have one, but he has distinguished himself individually..

kind of eye opening here..

He doesn't fit, because you say so. Yes, that's tremendously eye opening. I'm not going to bother showing you again what the man's accomplished, because you'll just point out something that he hasn't accomplished, and make exceptions for those who don't meet the same requirement.

Sad.

Building the Model
For the Hall of Fame problem, I tried to use as many predictor variables as I could think of, but I did not use statistics that have not been kept for most of the NBA's history (e.g., steals). My player pool consisted of players who had played a minimum of 400 NBA games and had been eligible for at least one Hall of Fame election. After trying numerous models, my final model had seven predictor variables:
1.height (in inches)
2.last season indicator (1 if 1959-60 or before, 0 otherwise)
3.NBA points per game
4.NBA rebounds per game
5.NBA assists per game
6.NBA All-Star game selections
7.NBA championships won
All of the predictors listed above were significant at the 0.05 level. Other than height, all of the predictors had positive coefficients. ABA statistics, honors, and championships were not important predictors of Hall of Fame status, which is why I only used NBA statistics in my final model. I don't like ignoring the ABA statistics, but that's what the voters have apparently done. Keep in mind that my goal was not to determine who in the Hall of Fame, but rather who is likely to be in the Hall of Fame.

Bonn - While this model explains why AI isn't on the list, what have the other variables have to do with popularity?

JRod, what has he accomplished that would distinguish him...

NBA awards and accomplishments
2012-2013 NBA Scoring Champion
5-time All-NBA selection:
Second team: 2010, 2013
Third team: 2006, 2007, 2009, 2012
6-time NBA All-Star: 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013
NBA Rookie Challenge MVP: 2005[2]
NBA All-Rookie selection: First team: 2004[3]
Bronze medal with Team USA, 2004 Summer Olympic Games
Bronze medal with Team USA, 2006 FIBA World Championship
Gold medal with Team USA, 2007 FIBA Americas Championship
Gold medal with Team USA, 2008 Summer Olympic Games
Gold medal with Team USA, 2012 Summer Olympic Games
NBA records: Most points scored in one quarter: 33 (on December 10, 2008 vs. Minnesota Timberwolves)[4]
Tied with George Gervin (April 9, 1978)
Most consecutive points scored in a game: 26 (on December 10, 2008 vs. Minnesota Timberwolves)[5]
One of three teenagers to average more than 20 points per game; others are Kevin Durant and LeBron James
4 NBA Player of the Month
Apr-2013 Apr-2012 Nov-2009 Mar-2006

14 NBA Player of the Week
04/08/2013 04/01/2013 12/31/2012 11/26/2012 01/19/2010 11/02/2009 03/30/2008 12/23/2007 02/11/2007 12/03/2006 11/26/2006 03/19/2006 04/12/2004 03/14/2004

6 NBA Rookie of the Month
Apr-2004 Mar-2004 Feb-2004 Jan-2004 Dec-2003 Nov-2003

Owns four career 40-plus post-season games (two with Knicks), joining Bernard King (7) and Patrick Ewing (2) as only Knicks ever to record multiple 40-plus Playoff games.

Has led his team to the NBA Playoffs in each of his nine pro seasons, with 24.9 ppg in 54 career games (all starts)

95th leading scorer in NBA history with 15,926 career points...Just ahead of him on the all-time list are Hall of Famer Pete Maravich (94th with 15,948) and former Knicks Kiki Vandeweghe (93rd with 15,980) and Derek Harper (92nd with 16,006)
Career scoring average (24.7) ranks 14th on the all-time NBA list coming into 2012-13 and fourth among active players (behind LeBron James' 27.7, Kobe Bryant's 25.4 and Dwyane Wade's 25.2)
Ranks 17th among active players in total points (15,926)
On Nuggets' all-time franchise lists, Melo is third all-time in points (13,970, trailing only Alex English's 21,645 and Dan Issel 16,589), third in minutes (20,521), sixth in games played (564), seventh in steals (634), sixth in 3PT FG (410), ninth in rebounds (3,566) and 10th in assists (1,729).

Fourth on NBA Playoff leader board in scoring (27.8), trailing only LeBron James (30.3), Kobe Bryant (30.0) and Kevin Durant (28.5).

Fourth on NBA Playoff leader board in minutes (40.8).

But please, keep telling me what he hasn't done, tkf. All non-distinguishable role players accomplish this stuff every day.

There is no doubt that volume shooting will get a lot of awards. But will it get you a ring?

The question is whether Melo is a role player. Try to keep up.

Vmart wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Vmart wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I'd rather trade him but I'm not gonna cry over Carmelo leaving us with $60 mil in cap space intact.

not only that, but we are not going to get back the same package we gave up.. I a team is willing or stupid enough to give us close to that, I would say do it tomorrow..

Some role players making combined Melo's salary, no thanks.

carmelo is a role player making max money.. who is a role player to you? it seems you don't have a clear grasp on who a star is... there are a lot of role players in the league who are allstar players or play on that level..

Let me ask you, was indiana a team of role players last year? and please don't mention paul george as being a star then, because only myself and a few others were calling him star talent last year...

you would not take the pacers team over having carmelo? really?

The Pacers are the one exception you like to use and its pretty warn out. George, West, and Hibbert are all-star players. They are not role players, and no reasonable basketball person considers Melo a role player.

exception.... every team doing well now has done so with players they drafted,smart trades, and FA signings.. we have done neither.. but the key is how they manipulated assets...

The knicks tried to follow another teams model but did so horribly...

you can't follow a model which pretty much requires you getting the best players in the league.. once they are gone, that model won't work!!

But please reasonably explain how Melo is a role player. Are most role players top 10 HOF candidates? Just asking.

top 10 HOF candidates.. what the heck does that mean.. top 10 of all time? top 10 among role players, top 10 among guys born in the 80's.. top 10 of guys who names end in "elo"... lol.. such a random statement..

Pardon me, he's in the top 12 of active players for HOF probability.

BasketBall-Reference.com
Active Min 400 Games
Rank Player HoF Prob
1. Kobe Bryant 1.0000
2. Tim Duncan 0.9999
3. LeBron James 0.9995
4. Dwyane Wade 0.9990
5. Kevin Garnett 0.9990
6. Dirk Nowitzki 0.9865
7. Paul Pierce 0.9823
8. Ray Allen 0.9657
9. Chris Bosh 0.9466
10. Chris Paul 0.8937
11. Tony Parker 0.8324
12. Carmelo Anthony 0.8191
13. Dwight Howard 0.8082

Now please explain Melo the "role player".

read my post I just made.. carmelo has been miscast... you take the word role player as being bad.. mchale was a role player, a great one tho..

you know what is so great about this list, and thanks for posting it...

chris bosh, ray allen,pierce, parker and carmelo... have never made first team all NBA... but bosh has a ring, so does allen, Parker has 3 and has been finals MVP and pierce has been finals MVP... there still is a distinction between those guys and carmelo...

I point this out because you are now trying to use the potential "HOF" as a way to put carmelo on a level he doesn't belong..

bosh right now I think is cast perfectely as a role player in miami.. although an allstar, he clearly is a role player on the heat.... not norris cole or birdman, no, he is better than that, but he still is a role player on the heat.. I know the term role player is usually for those who specifically do one thing, but I like to call them specialty players..

but back to my point.. everyone on this list, has something to distinguish themselves, with the exception of carmelo.. he doesn't fit... and yes getting a ring isn't easy, chris paul doesn't have one, but he has distinguished himself individually..

kind of eye opening here..

He doesn't fit, because you say so. Yes, that's tremendously eye opening. I'm not going to bother showing you again what the man's accomplished, because you'll just point out something that he hasn't accomplished, and make exceptions for those who don't meet the same requirement.

Sad.

Building the Model
For the Hall of Fame problem, I tried to use as many predictor variables as I could think of, but I did not use statistics that have not been kept for most of the NBA's history (e.g., steals). My player pool consisted of players who had played a minimum of 400 NBA games and had been eligible for at least one Hall of Fame election. After trying numerous models, my final model had seven predictor variables:
1.height (in inches)
2.last season indicator (1 if 1959-60 or before, 0 otherwise)
3.NBA points per game
4.NBA rebounds per game
5.NBA assists per game
6.NBA All-Star game selections
7.NBA championships won
All of the predictors listed above were significant at the 0.05 level. Other than height, all of the predictors had positive coefficients. ABA statistics, honors, and championships were not important predictors of Hall of Fame status, which is why I only used NBA statistics in my final model. I don't like ignoring the ABA statistics, but that's what the voters have apparently done. Keep in mind that my goal was not to determine who in the Hall of Fame, but rather who is likely to be in the Hall of Fame.

Bonn - While this model explains why AI isn't on the list, what have the other variables have to do with popularity?

JRod, what has he accomplished that would distinguish him...

NBA awards and accomplishments
2012-2013 NBA Scoring Champion
5-time All-NBA selection:
Second team: 2010, 2013
Third team: 2006, 2007, 2009, 2012
6-time NBA All-Star: 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013
NBA Rookie Challenge MVP: 2005[2]
NBA All-Rookie selection: First team: 2004[3]
Bronze medal with Team USA, 2004 Summer Olympic Games
Bronze medal with Team USA, 2006 FIBA World Championship
Gold medal with Team USA, 2007 FIBA Americas Championship
Gold medal with Team USA, 2008 Summer Olympic Games
Gold medal with Team USA, 2012 Summer Olympic Games
NBA records: Most points scored in one quarter: 33 (on December 10, 2008 vs. Minnesota Timberwolves)[4]
Tied with George Gervin (April 9, 1978)
Most consecutive points scored in a game: 26 (on December 10, 2008 vs. Minnesota Timberwolves)[5]
One of three teenagers to average more than 20 points per game; others are Kevin Durant and LeBron James
4 NBA Player of the Month
Apr-2013 Apr-2012 Nov-2009 Mar-2006

14 NBA Player of the Week
04/08/2013 04/01/2013 12/31/2012 11/26/2012 01/19/2010 11/02/2009 03/30/2008 12/23/2007 02/11/2007 12/03/2006 11/26/2006 03/19/2006 04/12/2004 03/14/2004

6 NBA Rookie of the Month
Apr-2004 Mar-2004 Feb-2004 Jan-2004 Dec-2003 Nov-2003

Owns four career 40-plus post-season games (two with Knicks), joining Bernard King (7) and Patrick Ewing (2) as only Knicks ever to record multiple 40-plus Playoff games.

Has led his team to the NBA Playoffs in each of his nine pro seasons, with 24.9 ppg in 54 career games (all starts)

95th leading scorer in NBA history with 15,926 career points...Just ahead of him on the all-time list are Hall of Famer Pete Maravich (94th with 15,948) and former Knicks Kiki Vandeweghe (93rd with 15,980) and Derek Harper (92nd with 16,006)
Career scoring average (24.7) ranks 14th on the all-time NBA list coming into 2012-13 and fourth among active players (behind LeBron James' 27.7, Kobe Bryant's 25.4 and Dwyane Wade's 25.2)
Ranks 17th among active players in total points (15,926)
On Nuggets' all-time franchise lists, Melo is third all-time in points (13,970, trailing only Alex English's 21,645 and Dan Issel 16,589), third in minutes (20,521), sixth in games played (564), seventh in steals (634), sixth in 3PT FG (410), ninth in rebounds (3,566) and 10th in assists (1,729).

Fourth on NBA Playoff leader board in scoring (27.8), trailing only LeBron James (30.3), Kobe Bryant (30.0) and Kevin Durant (28.5).

Fourth on NBA Playoff leader board in minutes (40.8).

But please, keep telling me what he hasn't done, tkf. All non-distinguishable role players accomplish this stuff every day.

There is no doubt that volume shooting will get a lot of awards. But will it get you a ring?

The question is whether Melo is a role player. Try to keep up.

Of course he is a role player. He has to score at a efficient rate and get his teammates involved. Now if your asking if he is a leading player I say no. He is a D. Wade type of player who needs help from a lead player. He is a Robin to a Batman.

Careful now, remember, you're posting on the UKProphet.com; putting Melo in the same class as DWade is treading on dangerous territory...

jrodmc wrote:

Vmart wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Vmart wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I'd rather trade him but I'm not gonna cry over Carmelo leaving us with $60 mil in cap space intact.

not only that, but we are not going to get back the same package we gave up.. I a team is willing or stupid enough to give us close to that, I would say do it tomorrow..

Some role players making combined Melo's salary, no thanks.

carmelo is a role player making max money.. who is a role player to you? it seems you don't have a clear grasp on who a star is... there are a lot of role players in the league who are allstar players or play on that level..

Let me ask you, was indiana a team of role players last year? and please don't mention paul george as being a star then, because only myself and a few others were calling him star talent last year...

you would not take the pacers team over having carmelo? really?

The Pacers are the one exception you like to use and its pretty warn out. George, West, and Hibbert are all-star players. They are not role players, and no reasonable basketball person considers Melo a role player.

exception.... every team doing well now has done so with players they drafted,smart trades, and FA signings.. we have done neither.. but the key is how they manipulated assets...

The knicks tried to follow another teams model but did so horribly...

you can't follow a model which pretty much requires you getting the best players in the league.. once they are gone, that model won't work!!

But please reasonably explain how Melo is a role player. Are most role players top 10 HOF candidates? Just asking.

top 10 HOF candidates.. what the heck does that mean.. top 10 of all time? top 10 among role players, top 10 among guys born in the 80's.. top 10 of guys who names end in "elo"... lol.. such a random statement..

Pardon me, he's in the top 12 of active players for HOF probability.

BasketBall-Reference.com
Active Min 400 Games
Rank Player HoF Prob
1. Kobe Bryant 1.0000
2. Tim Duncan 0.9999
3. LeBron James 0.9995
4. Dwyane Wade 0.9990
5. Kevin Garnett 0.9990
6. Dirk Nowitzki 0.9865
7. Paul Pierce 0.9823
8. Ray Allen 0.9657
9. Chris Bosh 0.9466
10. Chris Paul 0.8937
11. Tony Parker 0.8324
12. Carmelo Anthony 0.8191
13. Dwight Howard 0.8082

Now please explain Melo the "role player".

read my post I just made.. carmelo has been miscast... you take the word role player as being bad.. mchale was a role player, a great one tho..

you know what is so great about this list, and thanks for posting it...

chris bosh, ray allen,pierce, parker and carmelo... have never made first team all NBA... but bosh has a ring, so does allen, Parker has 3 and has been finals MVP and pierce has been finals MVP... there still is a distinction between those guys and carmelo...

I point this out because you are now trying to use the potential "HOF" as a way to put carmelo on a level he doesn't belong..

bosh right now I think is cast perfectely as a role player in miami.. although an allstar, he clearly is a role player on the heat.... not norris cole or birdman, no, he is better than that, but he still is a role player on the heat.. I know the term role player is usually for those who specifically do one thing, but I like to call them specialty players..

but back to my point.. everyone on this list, has something to distinguish themselves, with the exception of carmelo.. he doesn't fit... and yes getting a ring isn't easy, chris paul doesn't have one, but he has distinguished himself individually..

kind of eye opening here..

He doesn't fit, because you say so. Yes, that's tremendously eye opening. I'm not going to bother showing you again what the man's accomplished, because you'll just point out something that he hasn't accomplished, and make exceptions for those who don't meet the same requirement.

Sad.

Building the Model
For the Hall of Fame problem, I tried to use as many predictor variables as I could think of, but I did not use statistics that have not been kept for most of the NBA's history (e.g., steals). My player pool consisted of players who had played a minimum of 400 NBA games and had been eligible for at least one Hall of Fame election. After trying numerous models, my final model had seven predictor variables:
1.height (in inches)
2.last season indicator (1 if 1959-60 or before, 0 otherwise)
3.NBA points per game
4.NBA rebounds per game
5.NBA assists per game
6.NBA All-Star game selections
7.NBA championships won
All of the predictors listed above were significant at the 0.05 level. Other than height, all of the predictors had positive coefficients. ABA statistics, honors, and championships were not important predictors of Hall of Fame status, which is why I only used NBA statistics in my final model. I don't like ignoring the ABA statistics, but that's what the voters have apparently done. Keep in mind that my goal was not to determine who in the Hall of Fame, but rather who is likely to be in the Hall of Fame.

Bonn - While this model explains why AI isn't on the list, what have the other variables have to do with popularity?

JRod, what has he accomplished that would distinguish him...

NBA awards and accomplishments
2012-2013 NBA Scoring Champion
5-time All-NBA selection:
Second team: 2010, 2013
Third team: 2006, 2007, 2009, 2012
6-time NBA All-Star: 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013
NBA Rookie Challenge MVP: 2005[2]
NBA All-Rookie selection: First team: 2004[3]
Bronze medal with Team USA, 2004 Summer Olympic Games
Bronze medal with Team USA, 2006 FIBA World Championship
Gold medal with Team USA, 2007 FIBA Americas Championship
Gold medal with Team USA, 2008 Summer Olympic Games
Gold medal with Team USA, 2012 Summer Olympic Games
NBA records: Most points scored in one quarter: 33 (on December 10, 2008 vs. Minnesota Timberwolves)[4]
Tied with George Gervin (April 9, 1978)
Most consecutive points scored in a game: 26 (on December 10, 2008 vs. Minnesota Timberwolves)[5]
One of three teenagers to average more than 20 points per game; others are Kevin Durant and LeBron James
4 NBA Player of the Month
Apr-2013 Apr-2012 Nov-2009 Mar-2006

14 NBA Player of the Week
04/08/2013 04/01/2013 12/31/2012 11/26/2012 01/19/2010 11/02/2009 03/30/2008 12/23/2007 02/11/2007 12/03/2006 11/26/2006 03/19/2006 04/12/2004 03/14/2004

6 NBA Rookie of the Month
Apr-2004 Mar-2004 Feb-2004 Jan-2004 Dec-2003 Nov-2003

Owns four career 40-plus post-season games (two with Knicks), joining Bernard King (7) and Patrick Ewing (2) as only Knicks ever to record multiple 40-plus Playoff games.

Has led his team to the NBA Playoffs in each of his nine pro seasons, with 24.9 ppg in 54 career games (all starts)

95th leading scorer in NBA history with 15,926 career points...Just ahead of him on the all-time list are Hall of Famer Pete Maravich (94th with 15,948) and former Knicks Kiki Vandeweghe (93rd with 15,980) and Derek Harper (92nd with 16,006)
Career scoring average (24.7) ranks 14th on the all-time NBA list coming into 2012-13 and fourth among active players (behind LeBron James' 27.7, Kobe Bryant's 25.4 and Dwyane Wade's 25.2)
Ranks 17th among active players in total points (15,926)
On Nuggets' all-time franchise lists, Melo is third all-time in points (13,970, trailing only Alex English's 21,645 and Dan Issel 16,589), third in minutes (20,521), sixth in games played (564), seventh in steals (634), sixth in 3PT FG (410), ninth in rebounds (3,566) and 10th in assists (1,729).

Fourth on NBA Playoff leader board in scoring (27.8), trailing only LeBron James (30.3), Kobe Bryant (30.0) and Kevin Durant (28.5).

Fourth on NBA Playoff leader board in minutes (40.8).

But please, keep telling me what he hasn't done, tkf. All non-distinguishable role players accomplish this stuff every day.

There is no doubt that volume shooting will get a lot of awards. But will it get you a ring?

The question is whether Melo is a role player. Try to keep up.

Of course he is a role player. He has to score at a efficient rate and get his teammates involved. Now if your asking if he is a leading player I say no. He is a D. Wade type of player who needs help from a lead player. He is a Robin to a Batman.

Careful now, remember, you're posting on the UKProphet.com; putting Melo in the same class as DWade is treading on dangerous territory...

I'm a huge Melo fan. I wanted him here and compared him to Wade in the Past. Today I would not do that all I said was that he is a D Wade type referring to a number two option. With that said Wade is more all around player than Melo.