Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Well top ten is up for debate. He's just a volume PPG specialist. There is some value in that but I wouldn't put him remotely close to top 10.

He was third in mvp voting last year. I am waiting to hear some praise for his rebounding this year. That was always a criticism some had of him at the four spot.

Do Melo critics honestly not see that he played better last year than this year? This is not necessarily directed at Bonn, as I can't remember your views on Melo last year.

It's hard to say. His rebounding is a lot better but his shooting is a lot worse. Overall I do think he was better last year. I think a big part of the rebounding improvement is that he's sharing the boards with Bargs rather than Tyson.

VCoug wrote:

playa2 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Retool. Rebuilding won't bring a title to ny anytime soon. Won't even make us a good team. It's a challenge for even smart franchises.

you also need picks to retool.. we don't have that..... we need to get picks.. rebuilding and moving players will allow us to rebuild..

Rookies are younger these days since the days of Ewing(1 and done), what superstar rookie can come play in NYC with all the media and fans expectations and pressure and bring this franchise out of the doldrums.

Those who think we can win with rookies in this building(Worlds Most Famous Arena) is delusional.

THE PRESSURE AND ROOKIE WALL WOULD DESTROY THEM ! Think about it. This is why they try and grab vets and not young bucks to play here

Do you have any evidence to backup that rookies can't play in NY or are just supposed to accept it at face value.

Just listen to Clyde Frazier, unless this guy as a rookie has played at least as a minimum of 3 years of college and come from a big name big exposure school, he would struggle playing in New York from 2013 and beyond.

The maturity factor plays a big part. Ask Kobe Bryant would he have been able to make it in LA without the vets there who schooled him on what to look out for from the media and fans all over you.

Kobe would would have been a problem child without guys like shaq schooling him.
We found this out last season with DIRTY KURTY THOMAS, SHEED, AND CAMBY AND KIDD

playa2 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

playa2 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Retool. Rebuilding won't bring a title to ny anytime soon. Won't even make us a good team. It's a challenge for even smart franchises.

you also need picks to retool.. we don't have that..... we need to get picks.. rebuilding and moving players will allow us to rebuild..

Rookies are younger these days since the days of Ewing(1 and done), what superstar rookie can come play in NYC with all the media and fans expectations and pressure and bring this franchise out of the doldrums.

Those who think we can win with rookies in this building(Worlds Most Famous Arena) is delusional.

THE PRESSURE AND ROOKIE WALL WOULD DESTROY THEM ! Think about it. This is why they try and grab vets and not young bucks to play here

Do you have any evidence to backup that rookies can't play in NY or are just supposed to accept it at face value.

Just listen to Clyde Frazier, unless this guy as a rookie has played at least as a minimum of 3 years of college and come from a big name big exposure school, he would struggle playing in New York from 2013 and beyond.

The maturity factor plays a big part. Ask Kobe Bryant would he have been able to make it in LA without the vets there who schooled him on what to look out for from the media and fans all over you.

Kobe would would have been a problem child without guys like shaq schooling him.
We found this out last season with DIRTY KURTY THOMAS, SHEED, AND CAMBY AND KIDD

Let's not act like the problem is a lack of "veteran leadership". We're still the 6th oldest team in the league this year.

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Well top ten is up for debate. He's just a volume PPG specialist. There is some value in that but I wouldn't put him remotely close to top 10.

He was third in mvp voting last year. I am waiting to hear some praise for his rebounding this year. That was always a criticism some had of him at the four spot.

Do Melo critics honestly not see that he played better last year than this year? This is not necessarily directed at Bonn, as I can't remember your views on Melo last year.

It's hard to say. His rebounding is a lot better but his shooting is a lot worse. Overall I do think he was better last year. I think a big part of the rebounding improvement is that he's sharing the boards with Bargs rather than Tyson.

No it is an improved aspect of his game. He averaged ll boards in the three games he played with Tyson.

3 games?

playa2 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

VCoug wrote:

playa2 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Retool. Rebuilding won't bring a title to ny anytime soon. Won't even make us a good team. It's a challenge for even smart franchises.

you also need picks to retool.. we don't have that..... we need to get picks.. rebuilding and moving players will allow us to rebuild..

Rookies are younger these days since the days of Ewing(1 and done), what superstar rookie can come play in NYC with all the media and fans expectations and pressure and bring this franchise out of the doldrums.

Those who think we can win with rookies in this building(Worlds Most Famous Arena) is delusional.

THE PRESSURE AND ROOKIE WALL WOULD DESTROY THEM ! Think about it. This is why they try and grab vets and not young bucks to play here

Do you have any evidence to backup that rookies can't play in NY or are just supposed to accept it at face value.

I'm wondering when did we even have a superstar rookie to make this assumption.

1980s

Lol, exactly. The last time we had anything resembling a youth movement was in the 80s/early 90s. Drafted Ewing, Mark Jackson, and Rod Strickland; traded for 24 year old Oakley; and brought in Starks and Mason.

Nobody stays in school these days to be mature enough to handle NY as a young man with money with everybody pulling for your time and attention. A 19 , 20 yr old in NY and told he's here to save the franchise ???

Like I said people are delusional, they forget how young people are exposed to too much too soon.

Our course of action was to do what Grunwald was doing.

playa2 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

VCoug wrote:

playa2 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Retool. Rebuilding won't bring a title to ny anytime soon. Won't even make us a good team. It's a challenge for even smart franchises.

you also need picks to retool.. we don't have that..... we need to get picks.. rebuilding and moving players will allow us to rebuild..

Rookies are younger these days since the days of Ewing(1 and done), what superstar rookie can come play in NYC with all the media and fans expectations and pressure and bring this franchise out of the doldrums.

Those who think we can win with rookies in this building(Worlds Most Famous Arena) is delusional.

THE PRESSURE AND ROOKIE WALL WOULD DESTROY THEM ! Think about it. This is why they try and grab vets and not young bucks to play here

Do you have any evidence to backup that rookies can't play in NY or are just supposed to accept it at face value.

I'm wondering when did we even have a superstar rookie to make this assumption.

1980s

Lol, exactly. The last time we had anything resembling a youth movement was in the 80s/early 90s. Drafted Ewing, Mark Jackson, and Rod Strickland; traded for 24 year old Oakley; and brought in Starks and Mason.

Nobody stays in school these days to be mature enough to handle NY as a young man with money with everybody pulling for your time and attention. A 19 , 20 yr old in NY and told he's here to save the franchise ???

Like I said people are delusional, they forget how young people are exposed to too much too soon.

Again, evidence? Can you name me a draft pick of ours who failed because "he couldn't handle NY"? And how come they are able to handle places like LA, Boston, and Miami?

playa2 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

playa2 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

VCoug wrote:

playa2 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Retool. Rebuilding won't bring a title to ny anytime soon. Won't even make us a good team. It's a challenge for even smart franchises.

you also need picks to retool.. we don't have that..... we need to get picks.. rebuilding and moving players will allow us to rebuild..

Rookies are younger these days since the days of Ewing(1 and done), what superstar rookie can come play in NYC with all the media and fans expectations and pressure and bring this franchise out of the doldrums.

Those who think we can win with rookies in this building(Worlds Most Famous Arena) is delusional.

THE PRESSURE AND ROOKIE WALL WOULD DESTROY THEM ! Think about it. This is why they try and grab vets and not young bucks to play here

Do you have any evidence to backup that rookies can't play in NY or are just supposed to accept it at face value.

I'm wondering when did we even have a superstar rookie to make this assumption.

1980s

Lol, exactly. The last time we had anything resembling a youth movement was in the 80s/early 90s. Drafted Ewing, Mark Jackson, and Rod Strickland; traded for 24 year old Oakley; and brought in Starks and Mason.

Nobody stays in school these days to be mature enough to handle NY as a young man with money with everybody pulling for your time and attention. A 19 , 20 yr old in NY and told he's here to save the franchise ???

Like I said people are delusional, they forget how young people are exposed to too much too soon.

Again, evidence? Can you name me a draft pick of ours who failed because "he couldn't handle NY"? And how come they are able to handle places like LA, Boston, and Miami?

Vcoug, This is what I BELIEVE BASED ON CLYDE FRAZIER who knows the in and outs of playing in NYC as a young man back in the 70's WITH 4 years of college.

Micheal Ray Richardson was drafted by the knicks with the fourth pick overall in the 1978 draft, they thought he would be the next Clyde Frazier.

http://nba.si.com/2013/09/14/new-york-knicks-gambling-scandal-drugs-cocaine-1980s/

So the reason we can't even attempt to build through the draft is because of someone drafted 35 years ago during the height of the cocaine epidemic in the NBA? So, if it were up to you, if we had the #1 overall pick in the 2004 draft we should've traded away our chance for Lebron for a veteran?